Red Fox of Fire's character review topic (Complete)

[Fenrir]

Eddie+Wrath=Bad. In order for him to actually use it, he has to be in OHKO range, and he needs an extra 50 CRIT before Wrath activates. Micaiah's probably the best use of it.

Ed is often 2HKO'd in P1 anyways, so if he is in OHKO range it doesn't matter, all you have to do is put him in a spot he can't be attacked. Same as miccy except he's better cause he hits harder, and can use a Forge to help his crit.

[Junkhead]

Ed is often 2HKO'd in P1 anyways, so if he is in OHKO range it doesn't matter, all you have to do is put him in a spot he can't be attacked. Same as miccy except he's better cause he hits harder, and can use a Forge to help his crit.

Problem is when you have him on low HP and he kills an enemy so another enemy can spawn. But it's not like we're putting him up to a horde of enemies.

[dondon151]

List of innate skills that I have removed:

Eddie's Wrath

Leo's Cancel

Meg's Fortune

Volug's Wildheart

Zihark's Adept

Tauroneo's Resolve

Fiona's Savior

Fiona's Imbue

Tormod's Celerity

Neph's Wrath

Brom's Disarm

Mordy's Smite

Astrid's Paragon

Geoffrey's Paragon

Shinon's Provoke

Soren's Adept

List of above skills that I wish I hadn't removed:

[Fayt Zelpher]

List of innate skills that I have removed:

Eddie's Wrath

Leo's Cancel

Meg's Fortune

Volug's Wildheart

Zihark's Adept

Tauroneo's Resolve

Fiona's Savior

Fiona's Imbue

Tormod's Celerity

Neph's Wrath

Brom's Disarm

Mordy's Smite

Astrid's Paragon

Geoffrey's Paragon

Shinon's Provoke

Soren's Adept

List of above skills that I wish I hadn't removed:

You've never removed Calill's or Nolan's Nihil skills? Those are among the first two I think to take off. Especially come Endgame.

[dondon151]

I haven't gotten that far yet. It's not worth removing before then.

[Anouleth]

You haven't removed Mist's Miracle? It's worth giving to someone with poor luck if only to reduce the chance of getting critted. Which is ironic, really, that the best users of Miracle are the characters least likely to see it activate.

[Rewjeo]

Ed is often 2HKO'd in P1 anyways, so if he is in OHKO range it doesn't matter, all you have to do is put him in a spot he can't be attacked. Same as miccy except he's better cause he hits harder, and can use a Forge to help his crit.

Uh, Eddie has to attack at 1-range. AKA if he's in wrath range he is stuck taking a chance of dieing.

Hits harder than Miccy? Really? Uh, okay then.

[Fenrir]

Uh, Eddie has to attack at 1-range. AKA if he's in wrath range he is stuck taking a chance of dieing.

Hits harder than Miccy? Really? Uh, okay then.

Later in the game he sure hits harder, Miccy does fine with wrath but i perfer Ed with it, look at 1-4 for example, he does great with it there, because as long as he isn't doubled he can likely get a kill.

[Shadow Mir]

You've never removed Calill's or Nolan's Nihil skills? Those are among the first two I think to take off. Especially come Endgame.

Nihil doesn't do much of anything before endgame, so I don't see it as worth removing before then

You haven't removed Mist's Miracle? It's worth giving to someone with poor luck if only to reduce the chance of getting critted. Which is ironic, really, that the best users of Miracle are the characters least likely to see it activate.

Uh... How so?

[Fayt Zelpher]

Uh... How so?

Miracle's activation rate is (Luck)% Most of the time when a character dies, it's because of a critical hit. Critical hits are prevented by dodge/critical evade, which is also equal to your luck stat.

Therefore, the characters who get the most out of Miracle don't need it (because their luck negates critical hits already), and the ones who most need Miracle don't benefit from it (because their luck stat is too low for it to reliably activate...)

[Narga_Rocks]

Uh, Eddie has to attack at 1-range. AKA if he's in wrath range he is stuck taking a chance of dieing.

Hits harder than Miccy? Really? Uh, okay then.

Ed isn't as bad with wrath as people seem to think. How good he is with wrath is directly proportional to how often you can arrange for him to meet only one enemy on enemy phase (regardless of whether he is successful at killing it). Since he is frequently knocked into wrath range in one hit, he will also frequently be able to use wrath. And you can use herbs or vulneraries on player phase to arrange for one hit on the next enemy phase to get him there, too.

If it slows you down to arrange for only one enemy to reach him, then for those turns he is obviously not as good with wrath as Micaiah. Any time you can pull it off with him, he's better with it than she is since he will frequently have a higher chance of pulling off the KO. Well, except for how she does it on PP and he does it on EP. There are advantages to each method, and sometimes PP is better.

[Rewjeo]

I know he's not awful with it, but Miccy's just a lot better.

[Fenrir]

I have never found miccy to be useful with wrath, the only thing i like having her do is thani bomb early chapter bosses.(or armours)

[Naglfar]

Ed is often 2HKO'd in P1 anyways, so if he is in OHKO range it doesn't matter, all you have to do is put him in a spot he can't be attacked. Same as miccy except he's better cause he hits harder, and can use a Forge to help his crit.

Eddie attacks from 1-range so he's in danger of dying if you keep him in Wrath range for any length of time. Micaiah just needs to Sacrifice once or twice and it's active for the whole chapter. Miccy has Thani, but I don't see why she can't get a critforge too. In fact, I might just try that for my draft playthrough.

Eddie can't use Wrath effectively until fairly late. Even if you go with Narga's idea, if you heal him he has to be hit into Wrath range again, and just like how he can't dodge reliably enough when you need him to, he can't take hits reliably enough when you need him to, either, because enemy hit rates on him are awkward. Not to mention limiting him to maybe one enemy per turn when he's fighting from 1-range is pretty sad. That's Leo territory and even he doesn't take hits. He can use a Wind Edge to fix the healing/getting hit again problem, but you can't critforge those and they give him hit issues.

Eddie can stay on the front lines long enough to get into Wrath range, run off to fight from 2-range and not really be missed as a tank, but the Dawn Brigade really doesn't need another unit to protect. He's certainly not a bad candidate for Wrath, I may even say he's a good one especially because it's free for him, but Micaiah's ease of use, reliable hit and access to sniping with critforges stomp him. Unless you're training Eddie seriously (like, for use up until and possibly including Endgame seriously), which you aren't, I don't think he has enough going for him to justify keeping it.

Edited July 23, 2010 by Naglfar

[Junkhead]

I have never found miccy to be useful with wrath, the only thing i like having her do is thani bomb early chapter bosses.(or armours)

She is very useful as her Mag grows insanely. Armours are no jokes.

And she hits harder than Edward since she hits Res from afar.

You can keep Wrath on Edward as I do, and keep feeding kills for Micaiah, as always.

[Rewjeo]

but I don't see why she can't get a critforge too.

Because a critforge for a basic light tome costs 3360 gold. And that 15 crit adds up to about 1/7 enemies being critted that wouldn't otherwise. When you're only attacking once a turn, and starting no sooner than turn 2, that's no more than one enemy a chapter on average. Yeah, IS makes the first magic user you get very expensive to forge for. Go figure.

[Naglfar]

Because a critforge for a basic light tome costs 3360 gold. And that 15 crit adds up to about 1/7 enemies being critted that wouldn't otherwise. When you're only attacking once a turn, and starting no sooner than turn 2, that's no more than one enemy a chapter on average. Yeah, IS makes the first magic user you get very expensive to forge for. Go figure.

Hm. That is a bit expensive.

Clear this up for me; how little combat are we assumed to be exposing Micaiah to?

[Junkhead]

Micaiah isn't even assumed to be trained as a fighter. She's used as a healer after Part 1, and that's about it, since she can't do much even with Thani later on.

Edited July 23, 2010 by The leaving song II

[dondon151]

How does one train a unit as a fighter? Take potshots while you can.

Ed isn't as bad with wrath as people seem to think. How good he is with wrath is directly proportional to how often you can arrange for him to meet only one enemy on enemy phase (regardless of whether he is successful at killing it). Since he is frequently knocked into wrath range in one hit, he will also frequently be able to use wrath. And you can use herbs or vulneraries on player phase to arrange for one hit on the next enemy phase to get him there, too.

I agree. The only problem with relying on Wrath offense is that you'll only let him counter 1 enemy to be safe, but about 20% of the time he'll fail to Wrath kill that enemy anyway.

Edited July 23, 2010 by dondon151

[Fenrir]

Im tired so i didnt read your whole post, just the first paragraph and the first sentences in the next two but...Critforge for miccy is expensieve as mentioned, and on a stage like 1-4, (I've done it many times there) he is attacked and is immidiantly in wrath range, letting him wrath and critkill the Tiger he would normally take a while to kill, pretty nice stuff. Miccy just dies when she takes an attack unless u wanna throw a dracoshield/seraph robe at her which imo is a complete waste, since some laguz (Kyza, Volug) can make good use of a dracoshield and the seraph robe can go to Jill or eddy(even Aran) to improve durability, or be shipped to BEXP better.

[Junkhead]

Im tired so i didnt read your whole post, just the first paragraph and the first sentences in the next two but...Critforge for miccy is expensieve as mentioned, and on a stage like 1-4, (I've done it many times there) he is attacked and is immidiantly in wrath range, letting him wrath and critkill the Tiger he would normally take a while to kill, pretty nice stuff. Miccy just dies when she takes an attack unless u wanna throw a dracoshield/seraph robe at her which imo is a complete waste, since some laguz (Kyza, Volug) can make good use of a dracoshield and the seraph robe can go to Jill or eddy(even Aran) to improve durability, or be shipped to BEXP better.

Giving a crit. forge to Micaiah is a waste when enemies actually have Luck, making her critical activation rates pretty low and unreeliable. She's alright with chipping.

As for the Seraph Robe, it isn't a waste at all on her. Her HP is dismal, and you really need to help that, just in case. You get a second Seraph Robe later for Jill.

The Dracoshield is best used on Micaiah, Nolan or Edward.

On second thought, I am doubtful myself about giving Micaiah those stat boosters. But I really guess this isn't the place to be talking about this. =/

Edited July 23, 2010 by The leaving song II

[Narga_Rocks]

I agree. The only problem with relying on Wrath offense is that you'll only let him counter 1 enemy to be safe, but about 20% of the time he'll fail to Wrath kill that enemy anyway.

Oh, he's not all that great with it. But it is pretty comparable to Micaiah. Attack 1 unit per turn with wrath and have a chance of not killing it. Like I said, this shifts the offence from player phase to enemy phase. It's not as if Micaiah was doing anything on enemy phase, anyway, so Ed self-healing on player phase isn't a loss. And Ed fails to kill less often than Micaiah.

There are real difficulties with setting up exactly 1 enemy per turn on enemy phase (and it has to be 1-range locked), and that's why Micaiah is probably slightly better for Wrath than Eddie is, but it's not as big a gap as some seem to suggest.

And soul,

I have never found miccy to be useful with wrath, the only thing i like having her do is thani bomb early chapter bosses.(or armours)

She is very useful as her Mag grows insanely. Armours are no jokes.

And she hits harder than Edward since she hits Res from afar.

You can keep Wrath on Edward as I do, and keep feeding kills for Micaiah, as always.

Fenrir wasn't saying that Micaiah wasn't useful. He was saying that she wasn't useful "with wrath". The fact that he then stated he uses her on early bosses and armors shows he finds her useful. Therefore the conclusion would be that he was saying Micaiah isn't a particularly good unit for Wrath, not that Micaiah isn't useful. In other words, you weren't actually disagreeing with his stance, though your post looks like you thought you were disagreeing.

[Anouleth]

Giving a crit. forge to Micaiah is a waste when enemies actually have Luck, making her critical activation rates pretty low and unreeliable. She's alright with chipping.

As for the Seraph Robe, it isn't a waste at all on her. Her HP is dismal, and you really need to help that, just in case. You get a second Seraph Robe later for Jill.

The Dracoshield is best used on Micaiah, Nolan or Edward.

On second thought, I am doubtful myself about giving Micaiah those stat boosters. But I really guess this isn't the place to be talking about this. =/

Micaiah should not be attacked. Many HM enemies double her, so she still cannot be safely exposed to enemies. Why give a Robe to a unit if their durability would still suck even with it? In fact, she often still gets OHKOed with the Draco, so that's a waste too.

Edward is also a waste of a Dracoshield. He's a billion miles away from getting 3HKOed, so it doesn't make any appreciable difference to his durability. It just makes it harder for him to activate Wrath since he might not be able to proc it from a single attack. Compared to Volug or even Jill, he's an obviously inferior choice.

[RNG Princess]

Giving her the seraph robe can make a difference in 1-9 though instead of being OHKO'ed she gets 2HKOed so that gives her a chance to survive.

Micaiah with wrath is safer than using it on Edward though since he has to 1-1 attack an enemy its much safer using Micaiah with it because she should always be shielded.

Edited July 23, 2010 by Queen_Elincia

[Interceptor]

Well, considering that you can 8-turn Chapter 1-9 without Micaiah so much as even getting attacked, that sort of diminishes the value of giving her the Robe in the first place.