Best Character

[Candlejack]

The arena is there. You might as well have a few free units get some money and exp rather than doing nothing.

I'm not even suggesting abuse in the first place, just drop him on it like the goddamn a-bomb and he'll rack up EXP faster than Lachesis can wrap up STDs.

[Shamanx21]

Character wise, I like Amelia and Forde

Utility and all around usefulness, Seth...hands down.

[Jaybee]

Hmm...I know Seth is stronger earlygame, but how is he so useful THERE? You know, since it actualyl makes it just TOO easy to use him there, Eirika has decent Avo against earlygame axe users, she could could weaken them so Franz kills them, then vice-versa by Franz weakening them and Eirika getting the kill.

It's hogging EXP in this game only because it's easier than FE7's normal mode, the units are slightly better too, but now that I read that Seth doesn't "hog" EXP, it's still doubtable for him to be good around mid game unless you train him by getting that EXP he requires, and that's just prohibiting others from getting it.

Now, if we talked about someone like Titania in FE9, she isn't much of an EXP hogger since there are more enemies even in Normal Mode, they also gain more EXP and she actually IS useful when enemies like soldiers aren't a joke with +0 Def/Spd/Skill.

There is no such thing as "hogging exp". Hell, Seth DOESN'T need any exp at all, mainly because he already has it due to being a level 1 Paladin. Because of this, he is a positive on the team since other units can get the exp. And Seth does pretty fine against mid game enemies. Here are some C9 Eph route examples:

Level 9 (Steel Lance, Javelin) - 26 HP, 19 (15) Atk, 1 AS, 83 (78) Hit, 12 Def, 3 Res, 3 Crit, 3 CEV

Conveniently, Seth smacks him down to 2 HP. Just enough for some random unit to land a KO.

Level 9 (Steel Sword) - 26 HP, 16 Atk, 11 AS, 101 Hit, 26 Avo, 7 Def, 1 Res, 6 Crit, 4 CEV

18 damage done to him with a Steel Lance, which is enough for anyone to KO.

So yeah, Seth can do stuff.

[Junkhead]

If he doesn't need it then why do you even bother killing enemies then? And if you say he is decent mid and endgame then he HAS to gain level-ups and the cause of doing so is actually hogging that EXP, and by hogging I mean not letting other take it efficently, because to get those level-ups you actually need to kill lots of enemies, the olny fast way is killing bosses...

And this is not counting arena abuse, because arena abusing is not viable on efficent runs. I never said he CAN'T do stuff, I just said there isn't anything your team can't handle aside from Chapter 6 on Hard Mode, and you must also train them to keep them decent.

Edited February 5, 2010 by Alan Rainsworth

[Narga_Rocks]

Has anyone thought of, I don't know, ignoring people who keep up with the stupid hogging exp thing? We've explained it. We've tried. He has a Reality Distortion Field to rival Smash's. We should all give up.

[Junkhead]

The only reason you should give up us because you are doubting my capacity of understanding, I understand you point perfectly. Did you see I was replying to Lloyd just now? He said Seth does not require EXP when he is promoted, I said then why bother killing enemies, because you still get little EXP.

Do you not train Eirika? Because if you don't you are going to have some trouble later on, the best IS Ephraim, just who else (aside from Gerik) is onerounding most enemies aside mercenaries and myrmidons unpromoted?

Ephraim has many uses to Regeinleif, that weapon is broken when he does above 20 damage at base level to knights and cavaliers, he is easy to train in his level too, he does not require much favoritims, in which, you are giving Seth favoritism for getting him up those required levels to actually become decent mid to endgame. If you didn't play it you can't actually debate about it too well, just gettingn up facts from the site isn't the same thing as experiencing the game yourself.

I have to agree...he IS the best pre-promote, there's just no good use for him on earlier chapter below Chapter 8 (Really, you didn't even answer that all the times I said, you only answered what I said about EXP hogging).

Your team isn't suffering trouble at Chapter 1, 2 or 3, Seth can take down some monters on Chapter 4, but nothing Franz can't do, and not onerounding isn't bad when he's gaining more EXP and dodging reliably due to good use of terrain advantage (I mean the enemy reinforcements appearing on top of the screen).

But by Chapter 9...if you HAVED bothered to train someone that isn't Seth (i.e Franz, whom you are also being dense enough as to not give him a chance of actually gaining levels) he will aready be better at lvl 18 or a 20/1 Paladin, better, but please get this straight...I am NOT considering Franz the best either.

Edited February 5, 2010 by Alan Rainsworth

[Bryan]

If he doesn't need it then why do you even bother killing enemies then? And if you say he is decent mid and endgame then he HAS to gain level-ups and the cause of doing so is actually hogging that EXP, and by hogging I mean not letting other take it efficently, because to get those level-ups you actually need to kill lots of enemies, the olny fast way is killing bosses...

And this is not counting arena abuse, because arena abusing is not viable on efficent runs. I never said he CAN'T do stuff, I just said there isn't anything your team can't handle aside from Chapter 6 on Hard Mode, and you must also train them to keep them decent.

If we are going into Creature Campaign, it is the best way to get money to max your stats, PLUS, you can have Natasha/Molder promoted after chapter 5, and they alone can tank the next few chapters. (The enemies suck.) It is a pain in the ass to train healers otherwise.

[Junkhead]

Dude, EFFECIENCY run, maingame, not Creature Campaing. And Arena Abusing is NOT effeciency, because effeciency runs conclude beating the chapters in low turns and using your funs well, NOT gaining money by arena abusing for MANY turns just to promote characters right there, otherwise Seth would defeneatly break the game and Franz would be much more useful.

[uguu]

Apparently having a unit you aren't using for a turn go to the arena for exp is arena abuse and a terrible terrible thing

[Bryan]

Dude, EFFECIENCY run, maingame, not Creature Campaing. And Arena Abusing is NOT effeciency, because effeciency runs conclude beating the chapters in low turns and using your funs well, NOT gaining money by arena abusing for MANY turns just to promote characters right there, otherwise Seth would defeneatly break the game and Franz would be much more useful.

Even so, Statboosters are always win. But you need Money to buy them, even if you are not playing CC. >.>

Very True Hika.

Edited February 5, 2010 by Bryan

[RNG Princess]

Seth can be of use early game without stealing others experience :). I usually take away all his weapons and use him as a meatshield or give him slim weapons so he could weaken enemies for Franz, Vannesa or Gilliam.

Seth gains 3 exp for every kill and the others are gaining 20+ for kills early game, I consider it better for Seth to start getting kills until he gets a better exp for them that way the others get better use of that experience.

The better way for Seth to gain exp without being neglected is to kill the bosses, that way he's not getting crappy exp and the others can make use of killing soldiers to gain levels or else it will be harder raising them later.

Edited February 5, 2010 by Queen_Elincia

[Florete]

Hmm...I know Seth is stronger earlygame, but how is he so useful THERE? You know, since it actualyl makes it just TOO easy to use him there, Eirika has decent Avo against earlygame axe users, she could could weaken them so Franz kills them, then vice-versa by Franz weakening them and Eirika getting the kill.

Seth makes the game too easy (you just said it).

This is not something any other character can do.

Seth is not the best character.

???

It's hogging EXP in this game only because it's easier than FE7's normal mode, the units are slightly better too, but now that I read that Seth doesn't "hog" EXP, it's still doubtable for him to be good around mid game unless you train him by getting that EXP he requires, and that's just prohibiting others from getting it.

You know what it takes for Franz to be good mid to endgame? Experience. Experience no one else will get because he got it. A lot more experience than it takes for Seth to remain good.

You can put any unit's name in for Franz and it will work the same way.

Nope, Titania actually gets more than 4 EXP on normal mode...

And FE8 isn't a joke because of Seth, it's a joke even when not using pre-promotes, that's why it's a joke.

Experience gain is worthless. Performance is what matters.

FE8 is more of a joke with Seth. That's what makes him so good.

Dude, arena abusing is not even considered in debates!

Using the arena during the time you're still completing the rest of the map is not abuse.

If he doesn't need it then why do you even bother killing enemies then? And if you say he is decent mid and endgame then he HAS to gain level-ups and the cause of doing so is actually hogging that EXP, and by hogging I mean not letting other take it efficently, because to get those level-ups you actually need to kill lots of enemies, the olny fast way is killing bosses...

Sounds like what everyone else has to do.

The only reason you should give up us because you are doubting my capacity of understanding, I understand you point perfectly. Did you see I was replying to Lloyd just now? He said Seth does not require EXP when he is promoted, I said then why bother killing enemies, because you still get little EXP.

No, you are not understanding our point, because you still don't get why Seth is the best character in the game even though everyone else does. Experience gain does not matter when Seth blows everyone out of the water performance-wise, and it means that he can let others take kills over him in the event it's safe to do so because he doesn't need nearly as much experience as everyone else.

Do you not train Eirika? Because if you don't you are going to have some trouble later on, the best IS Ephraim, just who else (aside from Gerik) is onerounding most enemies aside mercenaries and myrmidons unpromoted?

I train all those people, and I use Seth. Do you think using Seth somehow prevents me from using other units? Maybe 1 unit, but then that 1 unit would prevent me from using Seth, and Seth is better.

Who cares who can one round enemies unpromoted when Seth has been doing it all along?

Ephraim has many uses to Regeinleif, that weapon is broken when he does above 20 damage at base level to knights and cavaliers, he is easy to train in his level too, he does not require much favoritims, in which, you are giving Seth favoritism for getting him up those required levels to actually become decent mid to endgame.

In what twisted world are you getting the idea that Seth needs favoritism to stay good?

I have to agree...he IS the best pre-promote, there's just no good use for him on earlier chapter below Chapter 8

How the hell is that true? He ORKOs where everyone else is 2-4RKOing. He gets something like 5HKOd where everyone else is more like 2-4HKOd. He has 9 move as opposed to everyone else with 4-8 move. He's a monster.

Your team isn't suffering trouble at Chapter 1, 2 or 3, Seth can take down some monters on Chapter 4, but nothing Franz can't do, and not onerounding isn't bad when he's gaining more EXP and dodging reliably due to good use of terrain advantage (I mean the enemy reinforcements appearing on top of the screen).

No one cares who gains more experience.

But by Chapter 9...if you HAVED bothered to train someone that isn't Seth (i.e Franz, whom you are also being dense enough as to not give him a chance of actually gaining levels) he will aready be better at lvl 18 or a 20/1 Paladin, better, but please get this straight...I am NOT considering Franz the best either.[/color][/font]

@bolded, USING SETH DOES NOT PREVENT YOU FROM TRAINING OTHER UNITS!!! He only makes the entire game easier.

Has anyone thought of, I don't know, ignoring people who keep up with the stupid hogging exp thing? We've explained it. We've tried. He has a Reality Distortion Field to rival Smash's. We should all give up.

If he is still incapable of getting it at this point, I probably will.

[Junkhead]

Even so, Statboosters are always win. But you need Money to buy them, even if you are not playing CC. >.>

Very True Hika.

What the hell are you talking about? I am clearly stating it in an effeciency point, it's not whether I play CC or not, that is NOT viable in a FE debate.

It's about maingame only, otherwise Riev would be the best.

USING SETH DOES NOT PREVENT YOU FROM TRAINING OTHER UNITS!!! He only makes the entire game easier.

Yes, but do you actually want it that way? I didn't exactly mention using him is bad, I only said stealing EXP from other units is bad, but you and Narga have clarified the point and I DID get it, it's just isn't the most ideal of things considering such a powerful unit earlygame the most useful when I bet not even you are fielding him up to all enemeies, because like you said, it makes it TOO easy, there isn't anything your units can't do earlygame. But alright, I understood your point, I was only saying Seth isn't the best when Ephraim & Gerik exist, and Seth can't be too useful earlygame where it makes everything too easy.

Okay, I will stop arguing since, like you, I have no point in doing so when I am trying to get something in your mind and you are also trying to get something in me.

Edited February 5, 2010 by Alan Rainsworth

[Rewjeo]

the best IS Ephraim, just who else (aside from Gerik) is onerounding most enemies aside mercenaries and myrmidons unpromoted?

Guess who's also one rounding everything? Seth. Why does doing that while being unpromoted make it any better?

[Maou]

Has anyone thought of, I don't know, ignoring people who keep up with the stupid hogging exp thing? We've explained it. We've tried. He has a Reality Distortion Field to rival Smash's. We should all give up.

It's soul man, he's worse than smash.

[Junkhead]

Hey, shut up. Don't get influenced by my previous post, I promised to stop being so dense.

And is this "Smash" guy, by any chance, Smash-Fanatic?

[whase]

I guess I'm always a little unlucky with seth.

a few weeks a ago I did an all paladin PT, by the time seth was lvl.6, my 20/1 Franz did a lot more damage then seth

seth could only ORKO with his silver lance, Franz ORKO with an iron sword...

my best character is always or Joshua or Ephraim

[RNG Princess]

The same thing happened to me :( my poor Seth.

I don't see the point of giving any jeigan/ouifaye kills early in the game. The other potential characters get better experience conversions for one kill than jeigans/oufayes do for a horde of kills. I think its better to have them around for a just in case moment and have them only kill the bosses (better exp gain) but even then the other potential characters get a level up. Training the other units earlier makes it easier than training them later, its favoritism to let jeigans get too many kills when they don't need that 1/2/3 exp to perform decently or survive.

Edited February 6, 2010 by Queen_Elincia

[BK-201]

If L1 Seth is equal to L18 Franz then we would wait a good amount of chapters for Franz and Seth is already there? I'll take the prepromote. Also he doesn't need to promote like Franz. So for Franz you have to train him to L18 to be as good as Seth, and an item to get him to 1X/1, clearly Seth is better for a long stretch of time and he doesn't need to promote. Also the fact is Seth is in your team from beginning to the end assuming no deaths. Any route. No other character has that. He's also forced in some chapters. Franz comes in the middle of one.

Also, if you divide exp evenly Seth is the better character for a long time, so I don't see favoritism.

Edited February 6, 2010 by BK201

[Junkhead]

Hey, BK...this has already been solved ._.

[BK-201]

I was pointing out to Elincia that there is no favoritism needed and he is a way better option for training than a lot of other characters.

[Junkhead]

All of that explained in the last two pages =/

[RNG Princess]

If L1 Seth is equal to L18 Franz then we would wait a good amount of chapters for Franz and Seth is already there? I'll take the prepromote. Also he doesn't need to promote like Franz. So for Franz you have to train him to L18 to be as good as Seth, and an item to get him to 1X/1, clearly Seth is better for a long stretch of time and he doesn't need to promote. Also the fact is Seth is in your team from beginning to the end assuming no deaths. Any route. No other character has that. He's also forced in some chapters. Franz comes in the middle of one.

Also, if you divide exp evenly Seth is the better character for a long time, so I don't see favoritism.

Yes thats true, dividing experience evenly is the good part ;). If the player gives any jeigan or any other character for that matter too many kills the team starts to detriment and become useless if not already. Thats why I recommend that Seth gets only boss kills early in the game in which he would gain a lot more experience in that one kill than killing a map full of non promoted enemies.

He gains crappy experience killing non-boss enemies while the other characters get a good deal of experience killing such enemies. Would it not be better for Seth to kill the bosses only and gain fair experience while the rest try to divide the kills for themselves and gain a good chunk of experience?

[Peachy]

I think the best character is Ephraim, because he has the natural ability to cap a bunch of stats. I know that from a tier prespective, no one is better than Seth, but in my opinion, I think Ephraim is.

[Parrhesia]

Yes thats true, dividing experience evenly is the good part ;). If the player gives any jeigan or any other character for that matter too many kills the team starts to detriment and become useless if not already. Thats why I recommend that Seth gets only boss kills early in the game in which he would gain a lot more experience in that one kill than killing a map full of non promoted enemies.

He gains crappy experience killing non-boss enemies while the other characters get a good deal of experience killing such enemies. Would it not be better for Seth to kill the bosses only and gain fair experience while the rest try to divide the kills for themselves and gain a good chunk of experience?

Even better, give him a Slim Sword or Slim Lance and let someone like Ross, Gilliam or possibly Eirika, the first two at least are probably not getting many faceless kills, finish 'em off.

Trouble with Ephraim capping everything is his caps are awful. He is a great unit, though.