The Last Promise

[CT075]

You misunderstand me.

I am not saying that it is good to ignore crit. I used to mock Blazer mercilessly for doing so (although you're over it, bro, no offense or anything that insult was a feature and not a bug). The idea is to reconcile your original ideas with what people want. If that means rehauling the entire thing, so be it.

[izanagi61]

wait how does my data not match up? first time i posted, i guessed and said level 15 no stat higher than 8. that was because i didn't have my game near me at the time. second time was exact stats. level 11 strength was 5 or 6. i posted again at 13 and strength was still 6. and 3rd time was level 14 strength was STILL 6. so my data was fine. you read the post wrong.

Edited February 15, 2012 by izanagi61

[Jubby]

With a double negative in your first sentence, I'm not surprised.

[Crimson Red]

If you're on about not being out of character have you removed the over 9000 part?

yes

wait wait wait. you say you've only used shon once. and in this playthrough, it was in a patch after you had already improved him. so how do you really know how bad he is? i'm sorry if i'm beating a dead horse here, but i'm not sure you understand level of terribleness that is shon. i mean level 14 6 strength. wtf. i mean last i checked on the main site ( probably outdated ) that 4.6 patch only goes to chapter 21 ( i hope to god i'm wrong ). which mean we're stuck with BS shon. i mean if he's only able to handle himself promoted with silvans, then that means you're judging with special circumstances. imagine if every sword user had a silvans. by comparison, he's still shitty.

and of course we care. if we didn't, we'd have let this topic/hack die. its not that your reasons weren't good enough, its just that when you consider what we said, your argument doesn't make sense. basically what you said was silvans makes him good and i don't like change.

._. you know I don't make super long posts so you can pick out the things you want to hear and just kind of ignore the rest. I've only used Shon once as part of my main team, true, but that was in v4.6. I've also tested every character regardless amidst hacking and testing my own chapters, and I also have had a lot of betatesting and gameplay testing for balancing purposes, so I've also had other people's opinions as well, not just my own. I haven't gotten to testing the latest version of the patch--I only have a hacked version that I used to make it easy and have a separate savestate with an actual playthrough which is up to chapter 5 or so.

It seems that hacking the game to make one unit super-powerful is not a very good gauge of how good the rest of the cast is when it comes to balance.

or maybe not. I dunno.

EDIT:

Although, to be fair, if I have Edward in FE10 with base speed at level 20/20/20, does that mean that Eddie's speed growth sucks? Just because your Shon got screwed in a creator-admitted flawed version does not mean that he will always be awful.

Um... if you're talking about me playing the game and uploading vids with my hacked savestates, please see the post above, I never use for that balance, obviously, it's to test the actual events etc., remember I lost everything on my computer including savestates, doc, etc., so I had to rerun through the entire game and regather all of that. A lot of work, and it would have taken forever had I played legit^^.

And yeah, his Shon got screwed, so he's a bit biased, but I never intended Shon to start off good anyway, so while his case is a bit far from the average it's not totally nuts.

In fact, he didn't say he was going to fix it, he said he'd already fixed it. He just hasn't released anything yet because he wants to finish it first ;/

Indeed. I actually had this idea... oh, damn, it's a good idea but I can't say it. >__> Anyway, yeah, I buffed Shon a while ago, but it doesn't change his concept as a whole. It retains the general idea of Shon starting weak, getting stronger, but not being really strong or some hero or something, but without as much extremity or annoyingness. :\

Blazer already addressed this point too, and while I don't necessarily agree with him not taking the public's views into account over his I think that a product should be made for people and to be enjoyed by people more than the person making it, it's his choice to make the game based on what he wants. So... maybe you should take the time to re-read what he posted, because you seem to have missed a lot of what he said.

Mhhm, yeah, but you know I just always wanted to make a video game since I was a little kid, so this is a bit of a personal dream for me. I think if I still worked on other hacks I'd be much more open to suggestions and wouldn't mind more drastic changes since it wouldn't have as much sentimental value. Rebirth 2, for instance, I don't really care what I do, since it's just my final tribute to the FE/hacking community (assuming I finish TU and the FE12 trans first). *shrug*

he implyed that the change to shon was gonna be so minor that it'll barely matter. he literally said that shon will still be bad, just not terrible, and thats not really reassuring. i guess i'm starting to sound like a dbag even though i'm trying not to be. i'll stop talking about shon accept his destiny as low tier. but can i ask a question? why are there such a shortage of axe users?

your poor typing is giving me a headacheAgain, it won't change Shon's character as a whole. It'll be like giving him a booster seat. To me, it barely matters, I'm not going to cry over giving him a buff. It's not like the stats are set in stone, whereas some other things are. To the game itself as a whole, it'll also barely matter, because it won't make Shon a tank and it won't imbalance the game somehow.

Shortage of axe users stems from the fact that a long time ago people contributed characters to this game and few of them were axe-users. When the project essentially died and I took over (this is arguable but anyway) I threw out a *lot* of characters and used the characters of people who still wanted them in. Eventually I started to change the plot a LOT (the plot was even MORE linear, everyone was either a Mary Sue or Gary Stu, and even I would have pressed "enter" on the scripts because of how bland they were at times) and I started to like it and axe-users never fit and I never wanted to create an axe user early on just so I fulfill the players' desire to have one. I think every character should be added because they have something to add to the plot, not because they have something to add to the gameplay, even though doing the first usually means the second will happen too. You're free to hack the hack and hack in an axe user but I am not going to invent one into a story that is already saturated with characters and plot concepts. You're also free to argue but this has been brought up hundreds of times and no one's ever convinced me to add one to Sieg's mode so good luck >_> (I guess I am pretty stubborn when it comes to this hack...)

That's also why there're so many blond, black haired and brunette people, self portraits :3

My favorite color is not red, I don't wear black shirts, don't have a sword that looks just like Kelik's Flamberge, and I don't have black spiky hair with bangs in front that go down to my neck.

...lying aside, people actually tend to like more realistic hair colors, it seems, than weird hair colors, and I don't think this just has to do with "self-portraits". Even I don't like throwing in too many odd-colored people, and half the characters in the game didn't truly exist before I took over. Also, this won't become obvious until later in the game, but Etrurians tend to have blonde hair. The 3 generals, the King, and several other Etrurians (like Kevin) all have blondish hair. It's a tendency found more in royals though. There are plenty of exceptions (Feena, who resembles The Mage General Cecilia,) but that's beside the point...

And since when has a characters age ever determined their fighting ability?

Err... umm... uh...

Well, you see, people mature over time. They gain a bigger body, gain more tolerance, and hopefully get stronger both mentally and physically. In the world of magic, there are exceptions. I can't generalize every magical world out there but generally magic power is an inner force that lies dormant and must be brought out. People can train to draw out more magic power but there is only so much potential. If you've ever watched anime like Dragonball Z or Fairy Tail you'll come to realize that kids tend to have this cliche where they have an extremely powerful dormant power that lies within them that is brought out through training or experience. I kind of follow this which is why I have no problem with people who are not even adults achieving great magic power (like Cia and Itsuke). Galagar is the same--he is a prodigy. If you play the game you'll find out his story which explains how he was able to bring out such huge magic power so early on in life. Physical users, on the other hand, I am not so lenient with. I can't remember every little kid in the game but most everyone under 18 never becomes OP without stat boosts or something. 18 is the age of "adulthood" IMO so... yeah. Older people tend to follow the "prepromote" thing where they start off average or strong but have little potential (then there's always Seth who starts good and ends okay cuz he's middle-aged XD).

tl;dr I think age has to determine fighting ability depending on circumstances. In TU, for physical users, it does. For magical users, not so much. :\

And yes, it's his hack. Nobody can make him change it, fine. That tends not to sit to well with "good PR", just saying. although ignoring crit is a thing that he and his staff Nayr have been known for anyway so...

People can't but they act like they do and become pushy because they know I'll listen to their critique because to not do so would be worse. Anyway, I haven't been ignoring critique. If I did, I'd ignore most of these posts, would not have a blog where I ask people for critique, would not betatest, would not post videos, and would not post demos, because all of those things lead to huge amounts of critique, a lot of which becomes redundant over time because it's either been said so many times or has been fixed but not released. (I hate redundancy) However I don't have a team of guys to help me (Nayr is not my "staff", he helped with graphics... and don't put me on the same level as him) so I have a heavy burden of taking all that critique on my own, so I naturally filter out what's not needed or doesn't fit without trying to sweet talk everything I do and say to sound like the perfect guy, because I don't have time for mind games, or time to deal with PR or shit. This is the internet, not a company. People forget that. A lot. Everytime I go online I tell myself this (paraphrased, I don't actually think these words): "As soon as you take the internet seriously, you're fucked."

@FalconVegeta power in those cases is probably determined by some extra force. In Naruto, for instance, it's about using chakra for jutsus, not just pure brawliness. In Fairy Tail, it's about magic power. In the Tales of series, there's usually some sort of "force" (think "mana") that gives people power, and the kids can manifest this power on the same level as anyone else. In Pokemon, you can beat the shit out of anyone no matter how old you are as long as you can give orders to a Pokemon who does all the work for you. (that's why everyone loves Pokemon)

I am not saying that it is good to ignore crit. I used to mock Blazer mercilessly for doing so (although you're over it, bro, no offense or anything that insult was a feature and not a bug). The idea is to reconcile your original ideas with what people want. If that means rehauling the entire thing, so be it.

I don't know what you're talking about but it doesn't really matter. There's a saying that I can't remember but the moral was "if you get mad about someone who makes fun of you, that means you're recognizing them as important enough that their thoughts actually matter". I find it humorous that you say you mocked me because there are so many other better things you could be doing, especially given how smart you *seem*. The bolded statement^ is only applicable if what people want takes precedence, which in a fan-game I'm making for my own pleasure, clearly is not. Priorities, bro. Clearly people have mistaken mine. That being said I will not sacrifice making the hack better if it doesn't interfere with my other priority, keeping things as they are intended to be, because that would just be stubborn or stupid. Or both.

I said enough on this matter. Spent too much time. This topic has gotten way too much attention. I think we should all let it die down until it reaches page 3 on the hacking forum. not that there are enough posts in this forum for that to happen anytime soon

[Nanami Touko]

You're also free to argue but this has been brought up hundreds of times and no one's ever convinced me to add one to Sieg's mode so good luck >_> (I guess I am pretty stubborn when it comes to this hack...)

OKAY

now this is a stretch

but

it would shut people up.

How about, instead of having Noah (Is that his name, the other merc?) as a merc, why not have him as a sedgar level prepromote hero (without Sedgar's mad growths), so that people will stop complaining about axes, Noah will get a tiny bit more useful, and you'll even please a few people by adding in a hero :3

And hey, it won't take away from the story any, since Noah's a pretty minor character ;D

Or don't do it. Just a suggestion :3

Okay actually pleeeeeease do it that would be amazingly awesome

Edited February 15, 2012 by seph1212

[Swordsalmon]

Jesus motherfucking christ, keep your personal disgusting fetishes out of game balance.

So making what was obviously a joke means that I have a disgusting fetish? Wow, didn't know that.

Smilies exist for a reason.

[BwdYeti]

._. you know I don't make super long posts so you can pick out the things you want to hear and just kind of ignore the rest.

followed by ~5 screen heights of text

How about, instead of having Noah (Is that his name, the other merc?) as a merc, why not have him as a sedgar level prepromote hero (without Sedgar's mad growths), so that people will stop complaining about axes, Noah will get a tiny bit more useful, and you'll even please a few people by adding in a hero :3

do this please

[Crimson Red]

^LOL@Bwd

yeah I guess since I type so fast and so carelessly I end up typing more in less time... anyway

How about, instead of having Noah (Is that his name, the other merc?) as a merc, why not have him as a sedgar level prepromote hero (without Sedgar's mad growths), so that people will stop complaining about axes, Noah will get a tiny bit more useful, and you'll even please a few people by adding in a hero :3

And hey, it won't take away from the story any, since Noah's a pretty minor character ;D

Or don't do it. Just a suggestion :3

Noah IS a pretty minor character. In fact he contradicts a lot of my philosophy in general--he hardly has any role in the game except for slight comic relief here and there (most of his lines will be in support convos though). I would kick him out except it's more work to kick him out than to keep him in and if I DID kick him out people would be even more mad that it'd be annoying, so yeah, I guess my priority of laziness/lack of willingness to properly deal with the situation just overrules everything else in that case.

...Anyway, there's this OTHER prepromote hero who comes like, 19 chapters after Noah comes. Add that with Shuuda and you have 3 heroes... then throw in Asch (a new character) and you have 4 heroes. OSHI-it's the fucking War of Heroes again. Then throw in Logan, Kelik, and Tekun, and you have 3 swordmasters. >_< overkill. actually, it's overkill anyway since as a merc Noah can be a hero.

...Let's see

flaws with this idea

1) makes Sieg's mode easier. meh, I'll live

2) makes Noah experienced. erm... yeah, doesn't make sense given his generally relaxed nature and his poor reputation as someone who is not very reliable (to his dismay, he brags about how reliable he is. feels like the Sain splice is taking on the Sain personality, I should mark that as flaw #3)

3) is totally an excuse just to add axe-users

hmm

hmm...

hmm

hmm

you know

given that Noah turns out to promote to a hero ANYWAY

it's not all that bad of an idea

actually, this is something I could live with. It'd also make *that* part easier... cough, I totally didn't secretly add in Noah to part 2 somewhere no one will expect him to be.

hmm

hmm...

I'd also have to change shops to have axes

but...

hmm

hmmm

hmmm....

this is an idea. and like you said, he's so minor I could throw him out and the story wouldn't change an inch. Which is sad, because that means he is a filler character, and filler characters would probably be better off not existing. >____>

I guess this is what you call

"taking a flaw and making it look good", as opposed to "taking a flaw out for a walk to the garbage dump"

hmmm

yeahhh

we'll see

we'll see

I like the idea, but I just want to make sure it's okay. After all doing it is essentially saying to myself "it's okay to be a hypocrite/change your mind once in a while". I never intended him to be a useless filler character but that's what he comes out to be. I SHOULD take him out, but now that he's already HERE, and he's already BEEN ESTABLISHED, it's a flaw that if I took out might be worse off than leaving it there. So the best solution might be to work that flaw to my advantage after all.

Fuck, it's been so long since someone's given me such a good suggestion. This could actually do a lot of good. But, you'll have to wait until the final patch to see if it makes the cut. ;)

EDIT: Currently contemplating giving Noah a custom battle animation so he seems more unique and less like a filler character. Because it's reverse logic--filler characters should be more generic, right? but if he has a custom battle animation, he'll seem less generic, and less like a filler character. gahahaha...

Though that'd be one more battle animation I have to sprite and animate. And I'm not in the spriting mood... oh well, it's just an idea.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Strawhat Luffy

[deranger]

You could make him a fighter-> less experienced.

[Crimson Red]

Noah is, quote on quote, a "mercenary". As in, the class, mercenary. Sorry, I don't like changing classes. Like, I almost never use reclass in the DS games because I just can't see guys like Navarre and Oguma and Caeda being any classes but myrmidon, mercenary, and pegasus knight respectively. It's like their identity to me. Like how when you ask a friend about their parents you say "where does he (or she) work?" as one of the first few questions, because what job (class) they have is a huge part of identity.

Hero works because it's really just an early promotion, not a class change. Like someone being promoted from a clerk to store manager. XD

Sorry, I like the analogies. Plus I'm on a sugar rush teehee

[Nanami Touko]

Blazer, I do hope you go through with the idea. It'd make him much more viable for people who don't want to use Shuuda, and give them a reason to use Noah at all ;)

It's all your call, but it'd be pretty great to see it come to fruition :3

and of course the lack of axes would be semi addressed, but you've already addressed that yourself ;D

Edited February 15, 2012 by seph1212

[Crimson Red]

Reasons to use Noah

1) He's purple

2) he has different strengths than Shuuda (can't remember what)

3) Has different supports

4) you never recruit him in a cliche way

5) damn, I'm outta reasons

Well, if I do the BA that's one more silly reason to use him haha

[CT075]

To that giant wall of text you have there, Blazer, I think you completely missed what I was saying (unless you'd rather not have me siding with you on this in which case you're doing a good job). It's not a bug, it's a feature

[Crimson Red]

Then, could you actually explain instead of just saying random shit that I have to interpret?

Also why did you make this about "sides"? First of all I don't need you on my side, second of all I don't want you on my side, third of all I don't want sides/this isn't about sides to start with. Just seems kind of silly, we're not little kids who have to take sides and point fingers at each other. I don't need to "win" any argument, either, to me winning is ultimately improving the hack so I like it more. :\

[CT075]

I'm not sure if that whistling noise was the point missing you again or just the last bits of wood falling off the forehead-shaped dent in my desk.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Camtech

[SilentSentinel]

Seriously? Who cares? It's his hack, and he's not making it to pander to your every whim. Whether or not you enjoy it isn't his responsibility.

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

Seriously? Who cares? It's his hack, and he's not making it to pander to your every whim. Whether or not you enjoy it isn't his responsibility.

Random Encounter: White Knight has appeared.

i don't see the point is doing something if it doesn't benefit someone esle.

Edited February 15, 2012 by HF Makalov Fanboy Kai

[Crimson Red]

I'm not sure if that whistling noise was the point missing you again or just the last bits of wood falling off the forehead-shaped dent in my forehead.

It's this kind of "I'm-too-good-to-just-say-what-I-want-to-say" and "I-have-to-speak-condescendingly-to-everyone" attitude that really isn't helping. I don't know you very well but you're currently not being very helpful or informative and it's kind of demotivating me to do anything and not giving me a good impression of you so I'm naturally going to be biased when I finally DO get this "point" you're trying to make. As it is I haven't done any real hacking in what feels like months (though it's really only been like 5 weeks or so) so... *gets drained of all life and becomes a corpse*

[Jubby]

Random Encounter: White Knight has appeared.

i don't see the point is doing something if it doesn't benefit someone esle.

So you can enjoy it yourself. Duh. He wants to have fun hacking it and then play his game which he's created for himself to play. Since you guys like it, he's letting you play it too. If you have a problem with it though, and Blazer likes it the way it is, you can fix it yourself. You not liking it doesn't affect his enjoyment of the game :P

[Arch]

So you can enjoy it yourself. Duh. He wants to have fun hacking it and then play his game which he's created for himself to play. Since you guys like it, he's letting you play it too.

If you spend all the time it takes to make a ROM hack designing a game for just yourself (which consequently gets released just because others' might enjoy), you oughta just check into the insane asylum. Hell, it'll probably be years before I can sit down and play Elibian Nights myself. The sheer amount of time and effort makes game design not just for yourself, but also for the people who are actually gonna play the game. Don't totally cave in and sell out to appease, I'm not advocating that. But a developer should be responsive to his critics and fans who, more likely than not, just want to see the product improved, they're just offering their input.

As for Noah? He's a pretty obscure character, relatively useless compared to Shuuda. Giving him a Sedgar/Wolf-like niche, while also bringing axes to the first ten chapters of the game (semi-satisfying a common complaint)? Seems like a no-brainer to me, it's a fantastic fan suggestion that Blazer shouldn't hesitate to implement.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Arch

[CT075]

It's this kind of "I'm-too-good-to-just-say-what-I-want-to-say" and "I-have-to-speak-condescendingly-to-everyone" attitude that really isn't helping. I don't know you very well but you're currently not being very helpful or informative and it's kind of demotivating me to do anything and not giving me a good impression of you so I'm naturally going to be biased when I finally DO get this "point" you're trying to make. As it is I haven't done any real hacking in what feels like months (though it's really only been like 5 weeks or so) so... *gets drained of all life and becomes a corpse*

You want a straight answer? Try this. You walk around and act like we're all always against you and all actively seeking ways to insult you. It's this kind of "I'm-too-good-to-listen-to-others" attitude that causes it. You wonder why we don't even bother being polite. This is why.

[Crimson Red]

But a developer should be responsive to his critics and fans who, more likely than not, just want to see the product improved, they're just offering their input.

Was I not...? on the other hand, players should realize there's a limit to how much pushing and shoving they should do. just because I don't always respond the way you want me to doesn't mean I'm not responding, so to speak

You want a straight answer? Try this. You walk around and act like we're all always against you and all actively seeking ways to insult you. It's this kind of "I'm-too-good-to-listen-to-others" attitude that causes it. You wonder why we don't even bother being polite. This is why.

How does this have to do with improving TU? This sounds more like a personal issue you have with me (which is weird since I don't even remember talking to you much...). In any case, no, I don't trust people, and yes, most people are against me. I don't assimilate to the normal, I assimilate to what I think is best since that's how I've been raised. At least, online. IRL, yes, I assimilate to others because you can't get along with others in society if you don't. But right now, I have no reason to give in to the majority or pushers unless I TRULY agree or whatever. The point is, people should naturally be against me. I'm not normal, and I would hate to be. Also, funny you said what you said, because I've been diagnosed with self-esteem issues. Anyway, are you just mad that when a bunch of people come up with come con-census (sp) I don't listen to them? Because most people would. The point of petitions is to put pressure by numbers on some sort of group to make a change. Petitions actually work if the group starts to feel the pressure. Sure, I feel the pressure, but why should I do something I don't want to do and that doesn't make sense to me just because a bunch of OTHER people want it? This is a video game, not a serious issue. If I'm being a bit tyrannical with the hack, which I think I could admit I am, it shouldn't be a big deal because it's just a hack. It's not like if you guys don't get what you want there's going to be some huge consequence. You just won't like the game as much as you could, and the opposite is that I give in and I won't like the game as much as I could, but since there are literally no other consequences I think I'm going to be selfish and not listen to others not because I'm too good but because I think I have more to gain as a creator than other people do as people who just play.

That may have been a bit much for you to understand, I'm not very good at explaining things. If you can understand that, props to you, you worked around my own flaw (lack of ability to explain things well).

Unfortunately I don't understand the last two sentences you said so I can't really say anything about them :(

also can we take this to PM possibly? it seems a bit immature to carry on this little chit-chat on a forum. especially when I feel like a lot of other people have already gotten over the Shon discussion that was a little touchy and it's just kind of... what it's called when you kick around dead stuff? meh, wish I could remember that expression. It'd also be nice if you didn't beat around the bush with me, you sound like you're being frustrated by my personality a lot (saw a reference to a headdesk) so why not vent out via PM? You may feel better after confronting me about it, and I promise I won't rage back. Heck, I won't even explain myself/try to reason out my personality/behavior/etc. if that bothers you too, I'm used to people confronting me personally and it usually turns out well from experience. whatever gets this conflict resolved so I can move on in life to more important things >________> it's too bad I can't just let it go/ignore it... I'm stuck between "not caring enough to take it 100% seriously" but "caring enough to not just let it go completely"... stuck between a rock and a hard place

Edited February 15, 2012 by Strawhat Luffy

[CT075]

If that's truly what you feel, then I'm finished (although truthfully this derailment was my fault to begin with). PM me if you happen stoop low enough to care about why I feel the way I do.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Camtech

[Crimson Red]

If you think you can handle not venting, then I'd rather not know.

In other words, I should restart work on this in the beginning of March. Why then? Because right now I'm 1) extremely busy with school stuff, job stuff, and other stuff and 2) I have to do work for the FE12translation which is a priority over this. So the release date of July 7th, 2012 is looking a little shaky, but we still might make it if I can get the animation's done and have the game completely played and tested by mid-May so I can do one FINAL test to be finished by the end of June, and then I'd have a week to make the final changes to what I hope would be a near-perfect version after being tested so many times.

I haven't actually found anyone worthy of being a betatester since most of my betatesters have failed to be useful, but hopefully that'll be remedied over time. At the very least I don't think you guys would like it if I were the only betatester, since I am way too biased, being the creator and all, and even if I am aware of my own bias I can only shift it so much away from myself.... if that makes sense XD

EDIT: near-perfect as in gameplay/grammar/event/bugs/glitches/balance-wise, not as in actual overall goodness

Edited February 15, 2012 by Strawhat Luffy

[Itsuke]

It's okay, bro. You take your time. I know you'll make it.

I might give the betatesting thing a try if things work out alright later on. We'll see.