Gods... I hate myrmidons

[CrashGordon94]

Brighton and Hicks would like to have a word with you.

Come to think of it, Brighton isn't too bad either on account of Wrath, though he doesn't have much else going for him from what I remember.

Oh, forgot about FE5 there.

[RNG Princess]

I used Johan once and I liked him but then again I'm very fond of the great knight class, I think all the characters that belong to that class are interesting: Duessel, Lex, Gilliam?, Amelia?, Johan, Hicks, and Brighton ^^' my favorite one is Hicks though because his name is funny.

I like all the classes in general thats why I love FE (so much variety). I do hate/dislike certain characters though but not classes. I used to dislike Laguz though because I didn't know how to use them but after using them they instantly became among my favorite units especially bird laguz.

But I'll bite and say Wind Mages/Bards(magic based not refreshers) because I hate/dislike the characters: Levin, Soren and to an extent I dislike Sety(he loves to humiliate Cyas). Merric is the only one I like probably ^^. I also DISLIKED the heron class because of Reyson, but thats nullified in FE10 (since I like both Rafiel and Leanne).

I'm not very fond of Ballisticians either ^^', Royal laguz take my vote too but thats because I like regular laguz alot more ;w;.

As much as I want to dislike Paladdins I can't ^^' they're among my favorite class, but I think IS needs to weaken the jeigan/oifaye archetype alot more regardless the class they belong to (usually pallies).

[Anouleth]

To be fair, Myrmidons in FE7, 8, and 11, especially are pretty mediocre as a class in genera. Swordlock forever in lanceland and less than stellar offenses on average isn't still something too desirable, coupled with low durability (would not be nearly as much of an issue if weren't for aforementioned WTD issues) and very limited range options. I tend to reclass Myrms to cavs in 11 for that reason (beyond having a team full of 10 move Paladins is awesome). And well, most myrms do have kind of an overly serious attitude to them that doesn't generate much interest, while Joshua's is a nice break from the norm of the deadpan serious (or in Karel's case, "ImmakillyoubecauseIcanlulz"), and the "I wanna be the very best that no one every was".

Joshua's personality annoys me, just because he's so one-dimensional. He's just obsessed with gambling. That seems like a pretty complete description of his personality and his supports. He's supposed to be the prince of Jehanna and wandering the lands trying to learn to be a better person etc., but that isn't shown anywhere, in any way he acts. Guy is pretty one-dimensional, but I think that his dorkiness is kind of endearing.

I don't think he actually referred to Joshie's offenses. I know Furet well enough that as long as he likes a character for their personality and if their stats are not too terrible, he'll use them. Optimal stats was never a thing with him. And since FE8 is a easy game where mostly any unit save like, three can become viable without any form of abuse, I'd think Joshie passes the "passable statlines" requirement.

In the first post, he said that Joshua was exempt.

In addition, Guy is definitely viable in FE7. I don't know why people characterise FE8 as being significantly easier than FE7, either, when typically, enemy stats are pretty similar and only vary by one or two points. For instance, Chapter 15 Wyvern Riders in FE8 have almost identical stats to FFO Wyvern Riders in FE7. If anything, Joshua is less viable than Guy due to his lower durability and inferior support list, as well as having to contend with enemy luck that reduces his chance to critical.

[RNG Princess]

@Anouleth If stats are the same howcome FE8 is considered easier? Its so confusing

[Tangerine]

In addition, Guy is definitely viable in FE7. I don't know why people characterise FE8 as being significantly easier than FE7, either, when typically, enemy stats are pretty similar and only vary by one or two points. For instance, Chapter 15 Wyvern Riders in FE8 have almost identical stats to FFO Wyvern Riders in FE7. If anything, Joshua is less viable than Guy due to his lower durability and inferior support list, as well as having to contend with enemy luck that reduces his chance to critical.

I think the hardest modes tend to be compared in that regard. HHM vs FE8 HM is a blow-out. Eliwood modes are pretty comparable though from my experience. Plus you get much more than just the arena for extra levels.

There's also the fact that FE8 characters tend to be significantly better than FE7 ones overall.

Edited September 21, 2011 by Tangerine

[Anouleth]

@Anouleth If stats are the same howcome FE8 is considered easier? Its so confusing

Well, a lot of the time, the specific enemies you fight in FE8 are of weaker classes. For example, you see enemy Soldiers, the weakest class, as late as Chapter 16, while in FE7 they're basically nonexistant outside of Erik's chapter. Revenants, the monster equivalent of Soldiers, are also quite common. FE7 also seems to have more magic users. Perhaps most importantly, FE8 has Seth; while in general, most units in FE7 and FE8 are about as strong as each other, Seth is by far superior to Marcus. Then again, FE7 has many good prepromotes handed to you as Marcus decreases in ability, while FE8 is less generous with good prepromotes. Sure, FE8 has Saleh, Seth, and Duessel, but FE7 has Marcus, Isadora, Harken, Geitz, Pent, Vaida.

I think the hardest modes tend to be compared in that regard. HHM vs FE8 HM is a blow-out. Eliwood modes are pretty comparable though from my experience. Plus you get much more than just the arena for extra levels.

No, I'm using the HHM stats:

"Twenty-eight have Steel Lances: 23-24 Atk, 84-88 Hit, 3-4 Crit, 10-14 Avo, 5-7 AS

Eight have a Javelin: 18-21 Atk, 79-81 Hit, 3-4 Crit, 14-18 Avo, 7-9 AS

Eight have an Iron Lance: 19-21 Atk, 92-96 Hit, 3-4 Crit, 16-18 Avo, 8-9 AS

30-33 Hp, 11-12 Def, 1-3 Res"

"Lvl 13 Wyvern Riders: 31-34 HP, 12-14 Str, 7-9 Skl, 7-10 Spd, 2-5 Lck, 10-15 Def, 2-3 Res

Steel Lance: 22-24 Atk, 85-90 Hit, 10-19 Avoid, 3-4 Crit, 4-7 AS

Javelin: 18-20 Atk, 80-85 Hit, 14-23 Avoid, 3-4 Crit, 6-9 AS"

You could make a case that the FE8 Wyverns are harder because they have at least some luck, but I would hardly call it a blowout in either direction...

There's also the fact that FE8 characters tend to be significantly better than FE7 ones overall.

I don't think that's really true. While it's true in some cases, like Lute>Erk, Franz>Lowen, and the obvious Seth>Marcus, there are just as many counterexamples like Sent/Kain>Korde/Fyle, Lucius>Artur, and Pent>Saleh.

[Florete]

There are no classes I hate as a rule, but I do tend to dislike using slow units. As a result Knights are the ones I tend to dislike the most often, especially when their crap mobility is combined with low Spd, but there are still those that I like (Oswin, FE10 Gatrie, etc.).

[Tangerine]

No, I'm using the HHM stats:

"Twenty-eight have Steel Lances: 23-24 Atk, 84-88 Hit, 3-4 Crit, 10-14 Avo, 5-7 AS

Eight have a Javelin: 18-21 Atk, 79-81 Hit, 3-4 Crit, 14-18 Avo, 7-9 AS

Eight have an Iron Lance: 19-21 Atk, 92-96 Hit, 3-4 Crit, 16-18 Avo, 8-9 AS

30-33 Hp, 11-12 Def, 1-3 Res"

"Lvl 13 Wyvern Riders: 31-34 HP, 12-14 Str, 7-9 Skl, 7-10 Spd, 2-5 Lck, 10-15 Def, 2-3 Res

Steel Lance: 22-24 Atk, 85-90 Hit, 10-19 Avoid, 3-4 Crit, 4-7 AS

Javelin: 18-20 Atk, 80-85 Hit, 14-23 Avoid, 3-4 Crit, 6-9 AS"

You could make a case that the FE8 Wyverns are harder because they have at least some luck, but I would hardly call it a blowout in either direction...

I wasn't comparing them statistically. Stats do not make difficulty. Chapter set-ups of HHM in general are significantly harder than in FE8. The only chapter I ever had a little bit of trouble on in FE8 was the Duessel recruitment one my first time through, since I played blind.

[Anouleth]

I wasn't comparing them statistically. Stats do not make difficulty. Chapter set-ups of HHM in general are significantly harder than in FE8. The only chapter I ever had a little bit of trouble on in FE8 was the Duessel recruitment one my first time through, since I played blind.

I had a lot more difficulty on Phantom Ship, Father and Son, and Last Hope. Duessel's chapter was kind of easy, even on my first try!

Still, even if the chapter set up is easier or tougher, does that make Joshua better than Guy?

Edited September 21, 2011 by Anouleth

[Parrhesia]

It's not really true that myrmidons have no offense. Rutger's offense is great and it makes him one of the best canditates to take on the silly FE6 bosses. Fir's offense isn't so amazing, but for a level 1 unit that joins in chapter 9, you can't really expect that much from her. Even so, she's not what I'd call bad. Joshua has very respectable offense. 8 strength isn't the best, but it's still very competitive. I haven't really used Guy, but I think his strength issues are probably exaggerated. Obviously, they really hamper him in strict play, but in casual play he can abuse his supports.

In addition, I always find that Mercenaries are far more hyped than Myrmidons.

A decent swordsman will allow you to take both. Many Fighters are horrifically slow just as many Myrmidons lack in strength. Plus there's the accuracy issues that Fighters run into.

Did it take you this long to realise that Cavaliers are simply the best unpromoted GBA class?

This is actually kind of hilarious. I mean, it's one thing to call other people "fucking pussies" for not conforming to your arbitrary standards of manhood, but fictional computer game characters?

Finally, I know that discovering the caps lock key is fun and exciting, but you don't always have to use it.

I like how you treated an obvious rant intended for comedy as an actual attack on the myrmidon class. Yes, Rutger and ... I think I've heard that Guy is good, as well. That doesn't mean that I necessarily have to use them. Yes, Joshua is good. Joshua who I stated was exempt from all of these. That Joshua.

I use Rutger anyway. He has a nice name.

Besides, it was more about the class itself rather than its practitioners. If Rutger was a cavalier with the same absolute stats, he'd (probably) be vastly better, albeit with like 4 less speed. Would he still be bland? Yes.

Footswords are overhyped in general. I just like Mercenaries, primarily due to a first impression of Gerik.

Yes, Cavaliers are the BEST class. Paladins are the BEST promoted class. I still prefer Snipers, Warriors, Heroes and Great Knights, and I'm entitled to do this.

Yes, you find it kind of hilarious. It isn't as if this was intended for comedic effect, or anything.

Actually, I just use Shift.

Kindly insult me someplace else, like IPChat.

[Narga_Rocks]

Still, even if the chapter set up is easier or tougher, does that make Joshua better than Guy?

The chapter set up would determine it, as Joshua is in fe8 while Guy has to deal with the setups of fe7. However, I had an easier time using Guy. I don't remember having much use for Joshua after a couple of chapters. Of course, that's probably because of Gerik and Seth more than any fault of Joshua.

[Ein]

I don't dislike any of the classes.

[Anouleth]

I like how you treated an obvious rant intended for comedy as an actual attack on the myrmidon class.

Ok, so you don't actually think that any of that is true?

Yes, Rutger and ... I think I've heard that Guy is good, as well. That doesn't mean that I necessarily have to use them.

I never said you had to use them.

Yes, Joshua is good. Joshua who I stated was exempt from all of these. That Joshua.

It's one thing to have exceptions to a rule, but when there are only five myrmidons to begin with and you make sweeping generalisations about all of them only to admit that Rutger, Guy, and Joshua are okay, it somewhat weakens your argument. Really, this seems to be just you saying that you hate Fir and Marisa, but even Fir isn't that bad.

I use Rutger anyway. He has a nice name.

Cool.

Besides, it was more about the class itself rather than its practitioners. If Rutger was a cavalier with the same absolute stats, he'd (probably) be vastly better, albeit with like 4 less speed. Would he still be bland? Yes.

I think that's true of almost any unpromoted character, that switching them to Cavalier or even Nomad or Troubadour would improve them considerably. I'm not sure if it's necessarily true for Rutger, though. Rutger's strength is in his high speed that makes him an excellent bosskiller. Cutting his speed by 5 hampers that capability and just turns him into Lance 2.0. Not that it's a bad thing, but I'd rather a bosskiller rather than another mounted unit, since after all, I already have multiple good mounted units.

Footswords are overhyped in general. I just like Mercenaries, primarily due to a first impression of Gerik.

Gerik is barely a footsword when you consider that the reason he's good is because you can immediately give him Axes.

Yes, Cavaliers are the BEST class. Paladins are the BEST promoted class. I still prefer Snipers, Warriors, Heroes and Great Knights, and I'm entitled to do this.

Right, but complaining about Myrmidons because they're not as good as Cavaliers misses the point: very few classes are as good as Cavaliers. I don't think I've ever claimed you weren't entitled to use other classes.

Kindly insult me someplace else, like IPChat.

I would prefer not to insult you at all. I mean, I don't think I insulted you. If I did, I apologise.

[Thor Odinson]

Now for Lumi's super subjective view on Joshua vs Guy.

Joshua is a pretty hot dude.

Guy's an unattractive sorta-shota whose only only redeeming physical attribute is his hair. I mean, for god sakes, this kid's as big as Fir! How's that supposed to be attractive?

:P

[Agro]

Kindly insult me someplace else, like IPChat.

You're an idiot.

Haaaaah.

On-topic, I really hate using Dark Mages. They always seem to come at a time that's most inconvenient, with horrid base stats, and a horrid speed growth. Combining that with the fact that their tomes are relatively heavy, I just never end up using them in any playthrough.

[Ansem]

Rutger has nice bases in FE6hm but his personality is "..."

Shiva has scrolls, his animation is nice too, dont mind about his personality.

Everyone else is ew.

Edited September 21, 2011 by Espeon

[dondon151]

That would be pretty cool, but that would just be like turning armour knights into regular mounted units.

Not really. Great knights have only 6 move when mounted; even if they had 7 move, they'd still be quite a bit worse than standard 8 move mounts, but at least they have a usable niche.

[Loki Laufeyson]

Myrms. Yeah not the biggest fan of them myself. They are a bit too squishy and too many of them dont cut it when it comes to offense. I like Joshua a lot though. Hes pretty gr9. Ones i really hate:

Fir (oh god)

Karla (i like her but i hate how much she sucks.)

Guy (ugh)

Karel (again see Karla)

Mia (shes pretty good in RD but i dont like her. At all.)

I tend to find myrms and swordies to be really overrated.

Class i really hate/dont like? Hmmmm.

Not a fan of archers. They are a pain in the ass to train.

Dont care for fighters.

Armor Knights suck the wanky unless their name is Oswin.

Wyvern Riders are cool in theory but im not the biggest fan.

Dark magic users. See above.

Lyn.

Laguz. Eww gauges.

[RNG Princess]

I forget Shiva exists ^^' I think most of them are like "I want to be the best" personality. Navarre I think is like that? Marisa, Fir, Guy, Karel, Karla?, Eddie, Mia, Marisa, and whoever else I did not mention. Some of them are completely unique in terms of personality like Ayra, Zihark, and Lucia who fight for someone they love/their beliefs. My favorite one is Eddie anyways because he's so different to the rest, all of them are serious-aggressive but he's cute-and childish ;w;.

I think thats part of the reason why Furet likes Joshua more than Guy? Guy is another slash slash enemy iirc, and iirc Joshua is a lout (he should of been a cavalier to fit tradition). BTW is Karla really that bad? I used her once in a NM pt and she was decent ^^' very fast and skillful good at dealing criticals, but its been far too long I can't remember I should get started on the NM draft I picked her

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

i love how Furet didn't mention Zihawk, Stefan, Lucia, or Edward.

granted i've only read the first page when i made this post, but its funny to me

[Tryhard]

i love how Furet didn't mention Zihawk, Stefan, Lucia, or Edward.

granted i've only read the first page when i made this post, but its funny to me

*Tellian myrms are exempt by default, bar FE9 Mia, as are Swordfighters.

Zihark, Stefan, Lucia, and Edward happen to be Tellian myrms.

[Thor Odinson]

Well, FE7 up to EHM is pretty easy and then HHM SUDDENLY DIFFICULTY GET. Karla's stats probably are actually viable on NM, never used her, though.

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

Zihark, Stefan, Lucia, and Edward happen to be Tellian myrms.

whoops, there goes my stupidness acting up again.

on topic though the class i hate the most...it depends on the game.

FE6 its the damn pegasus knights and nomads

FE7 its fighters

FE8 its Great Knights

FE9 its archers

FE10 its Laguz.

[General Horace]

I dislike all dark mages, barring Niime. Why did IS make all dark tomes so heavy?

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

I dislike all dark mages, barring Niime. Why did IS make all dark tomes so heavy?

its cause its black magic isn't it?

IS is racist towards black magic users

Edited September 21, 2011 by HF Makalov Fanboy Kai