Trueblades

[Vicious Sal]

If we look at it from another angle however, Zihark wins flat out.

And By that I mean personality/character development. He has backstory, he has secrets, he has tough luck with meg buzzing around him, he has personality and there are lot's of things that he is involved with, we can change the side he takes and have him experience the war in different ways.

Mia has personality, but 50 % is about her great whiteclad rival... And bettering herself all the time. She doesn't change much.

Lucia is just "I die for my country" Although she does learn some stuff here and there, and how she uses her personality is good imo.

Edward is all about improving himself, go daein, and eventually getting sick of war. He sadly doesn't have the POR background. He only has his little how I met Leo story as background...

Stefan... You get the point, Branded, seclusive, master of the blade, etc.

Oh wait, this was Judging by looks right? Mia wins.

[Archsage Julz]

...of course I get knocked down by the favouritism thing when all I'm trying to prove is Lucia is NOT useless...I just hate seeing how everyone berates her all the time -.-"

[I.M. Gei]

I don't think anyone here is arguing that Lucia is useless; she certainly has her time to shine in 2-2 and obviously terrible in Part 4 without a shitton of favoritism.

[Vicious Sal]

no one berates her, they are stating the obvious. and they give her her 2-2 creds.

[Anouleth]

You know, the only difference really is this;

Mia and Edward are counterparts (STR & DEF)

Lucia and Zihark are counterparts. (STR & RES)

Stefan sits in the middle.

But Lucia has awful strength and Zihark's strength is mediocre. And it's not like Edward's defense is anything to write home about either.

Anyway I've got a lot to say about Lucia from using her;

- BEXPing her from Lvl13-Lvl20 Trueblade pretty much ensures maxed out stats. For her LUCK, just use two Ashera Icons.

That's not really true at all. BEXPing Lucia from level 14 to 20 will give her 18 stat ups, which is enough to cap HP, SKL, SPD, RES, with 8 points left for STR/MAG/DEF/LUK. Say, three points for Luck, 1 point for defense, and 2 points for each of the other two, since they're all about the same. That puts her at 20STR/16DEF, which is pretty poor if you ask me.

- She's notorious for unexpected crits (watch goldieX39's Trueblade Battle Royale video). There's been many a time they've come without warning.

Goldie's videos are not evidence of anything. Lucia giving out unexpected crits is not a good thing, either.

- Her RES makes her far more useful to use against Sephiran and Ashera than the other 4. Mia died in one hit from Ashera targeting her; Lucia survived with 12HP left. Hmm...

Then your Mia was underlevelled.

- Parity works wonders against Sephiran and Ashera. Sephiran stands on a tile that gives him +10DEF and +15AVO; Parity cancels that out.

That sounds like a perfect skill to put on another, better unit. Like Giffca.

Losing your bonuses aside, using Reyson's Galdrar, then someone to heal her, Lucia can take out Sephiran easily. Also, she deals far more damage when using Parity against them and has a small chance of dodging Sephiran or Ashera (I wait for the day to see that happen).

Parity can be put on anyone. It doesn't take up a lot of space, and it's not like you'll want to combine Parity with other skills.

[Kngt_Of_Titania]

I have little doubt (but having never done it myself) that Lucia can be decent with BEXP. However, RD is unique in the sense that its BEXP system allows many, many characters to claim that too. So saying that Lucia is good with BEXP is like me claiming somebody is a womanizer because they got laid with a hooker.

Lucia's big issues are:

1) Her total stat growth is terrible (like 315% total versus 345-370% for other trueblades)

2) She has terrible growths in stats that matter most (STR).

3) She doesn't come at like mid-highest tier with insane stats to make the other two not matter (think...FE6 Marcus for what I'm referring too).

I still put her above Stefan because she's definitely useful in part 2, while Stefan fills the weird, almost useless niche of, "Well, here's a trueblade in case you wanted one for tower but we've already given you so many opportuniites to level trueblades like Edward, Zihark, and Mia (which are all solid characters) that you don't have one already only because you don't want one for tower."

If you like Lucia, by all means use her. Even in hard mode, I don't see it making/breaking you if you play smart. But she has serious issues.

Edited December 1, 2011 by Kngt_Of_Titania

[Snowy_One]

Mia > Zihark > Eddie > Lucia > Stefan. Stefan is a useless character whose only purpose in the game is... ummm... errr... Nothing. Lucia at least has one chapter to shine in comparison to Stefan. Seriously, why is he even in FE9/10? Did a programmers child say something like 'daddy! I wanna have my fanfic character in the game' or something and the programmer just smile then make him almost impossible to find and have no bearing just to spare the players?

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

Mia > Zihark > Eddie > Lucia > Stefan. Stefan is a useless character whose only purpose in the game is... ummm... errr... Nothing. Lucia at least has one chapter to shine in comparison to Stefan. Seriously, why is he even in FE9/10? Did a programmers child say something like 'daddy! I wanna have my fanfic character in the game' or something and the programmer just smile then make him almost impossible to find and have no bearing just to spare the players?

Stefan has the purpose of giving you the Vague/Vauge Katti...granted thats just about it, but it something.

kinda like how Fiona's purpose is to give you the savor and...Ibume or whatever you say it scrolls.

[dondon151]

Lucia does her part in 4-2 if you crown her and give her a Silver Sword critforge. Considering that you don't really want to siphon too many good units into the Hawk Army, her contribution there is still worth something.

[Junkhead]

Edward should be first in EM/NM. He has godd availability, performs pretty well, and can actually dodge axes.

It's argueble who's better between Mia and Zihark in NM.

[aku chi]

Edward should be first in EM/NM. He has godd availability, performs pretty well, and can actually dodge axes.

It's argueble who's better between Mia and Zihark in NM.

IMO (and assuming efficient play): Mia > Zihark ~= Edward in NM. Edward's Part 1 performance in NM isn't much different than his HM performance. He doesn't need to get lucky with Spd procs to keep doubling (but he still can't get unlucky), but Edward can't make much of a contribution towards chapter completion beyond 1-4. Discounting Bexp, it's still unlikely for Edward to promote in NM's Part 1 (which means we'll Bexp or Seal him to 20/1 before 3-6). Edward's Part 3 is only a little better in NM than HM. He'll either need a Master Crown or a bunch of Bexp to promote before Part 4. Because Bexp is much more prevalent (and potent) in NM, Bexping Edward to promotion is actually a realistic scenario, which makes his Part 4 very good (about as good as Mia's).

[Zanarkin]

Sealing a unit we are trying to use at 3-6 seems... too far away. Usually when i use Edward he is ready to be sealed 20/1 by around 1-6 or 1-7.

[a.f.k.a. Howard Hughes]

Assuming NM

Yet Smehow eddy and ziggy contribute the same if not more than mia who simply is another nephenee without shitton of 2-E bexp and 1-2 range. Heck I could argue Mia is so useless that Boyd is more usefull

Edited December 3, 2011 by Princess K

[Loki Laufeyson]

Assuming NM

Yet Smehow eddy and ziggy contribute the same if not more than mia who simply is another nephenee without shitton of 2-E bexp and 1-2 range. Heck I could argue Mia is so useless that Boyd is more usefull

I would be inclined to agree. (god i hate Mia.) I do find that Edwardovich and Zihark tend to do more in their parts than Mia does. All three can end up good though.

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

How is Mia useless?

i was under the impression she was an pretty good unit of the GM's

[I.M. Gei]

How is Mia useless?

i was under the impression she was an pretty good unit of the GM's

She's good, but just about every offensive unit in the GMs is good in NM; even Soren is "good," and Mia doesn't really have a clear-cut case for being better than Eddy and Zihark in NM.

Edited December 3, 2011 by Black★Rock Shooter

[a.f.k.a. Howard Hughes]

Useless as in everything she can do others can do better.

Lets think about it.

Mounteds and Fliers win by having (you guessed it) more movement, canto and 1-2 range

Most Foot units have 1-2 range (Nephy, Boyd) or just are superior (Ike)

Healers heal

Mages still have 1-2 range and Normal is much more forgiving about bad bulk. Also Siege tome and later possibly staff utility.

Armours are bit iffy but still Gatrie's manlyness in early chapters is better than mia's chip. Brom sucks hands down (in part 3)

Shinnon has bow utility. (read as awesome range at 3rd tier and no need for training anytime soon) Rolf sucks hands down.

Birdies fly away, Other Laguz is kinda meh thou.

Who else was there again?

I know I am bit unfair but still I don't see why I would use Mia in NM.

Edited December 3, 2011 by Princess K

[Junkhead]

IMO (and assuming efficient play): Mia > Zihark ~= Edward in NM. Edward's Part 1 performance in NM isn't much different than his HM performance. He doesn't need to get lucky with Spd procs to keep doubling (but he still can't get unlucky), but Edward can't make much of a contribution towards chapter completion beyond 1-4. Discounting Bexp, it's still unlikely for Edward to promote in NM's Part 1 (which means we'll Bexp or Seal him to 20/1 before 3-6). Edward's Part 3 is only a little better in NM than HM. He'll either need a Master Crown or a bunch of Bexp to promote before Part 4. Because Bexp is much more prevalent (and potent) in NM, Bexping Edward to promotion is actually a realistic scenario, which makes his Part 4 very good (about as good as Mia's).

I think you are understimating his NM potential. It isn't just "a little better". In NM, he can actually dodge axes. He can take at least one more hit, and his offense improves because he doesn't have to worry about his Spd as much as in HM. The support with Nolan acually aids his little Avo problem. Promoting him at 1-E's base is pretty feasible.

Zihark's durability doesn't suffer as much as it does in HM here. In 3-6, IIRC, he can actually survive 2 rounds from Cats- He also doesn't need 3 more Spd to be able to double Cats. Mia's actually pretty average in NM. She doesn't stand out because doubling is no longer an issue in NM. The Weapon Triangle may also come to bite her, considering there are Halberdiers and Generals who bear Lances.

[aku chi]

I think you are understimating his NM potential. It isn't just "a little better". In NM, he can actually dodge axes.

~10% more often. This fails to impress me.

He can take at least one more hit,

No, he cannot. Edward is still 2-3HKO by almost everything in Part 1.

and his offense improves because he doesn't have to worry about his Spd as much as in HM.

Which I mentioned.

The support with Nolan acually aids his little Avo problem.

This is no different from HM. Edward cannot avoid reliably (without Resolve) until Part 4.

Promoting him at 1-E's base is pretty feasible.

With Bexp and/or a Master Seal. Which you might prefer to use on Nolan, Jill, or Aran.

Zihark's durability doesn't suffer as much as it does in HM here. In 3-6, IIRC, he can actually survive 2 rounds from Cats- He also doesn't need 3 more Spd to be able to double Cats. Mia's actually pretty average in NM. She doesn't stand out because doubling is no longer an issue in NM. The Weapon Triangle may also come to bite her, considering there are Halberdiers and Generals who bear Lances.

Mia may be comparatively worse in NM (because it isn't quite as difficult for other GMs to double), but the same can be said for Zihark. Nolan and Jill have a better chance to double consistently in NM. But I'm really not interested in cross-team comparisons.

[dondon151]

~10% more often. This fails to impress me.

I don't know where you're getting 10% from. HM fighters in 1-P have 64-67 hit on Edward, or in the range of 75% true. In NM they have maybe 52-55 hit (assuming they just have 1 less skl compared to HM), or in the range of 55% true. Edward is dodging attacks from fighters 27% more often, which is pretty significant.

In NM, Edward gets hits less and can face more rounds of combat. He can kill enemies more easily by virtue of higher AS relative to his enemies. NM also doesn't have an EXp gain penalty. The result is that Edward levels up faster, and it allows him to do all of the above more easily. Once the positive feedback loop gets going, Edward is pretty set.

I know that Vykan got Edward to like level 12 by 1-4 on his NM speedrun. That's so much higher than what he can be at that point on HM. Even disregarding the manipulations that Edward required, the difference is not anything less than substantial.

[Original Alear]

I know I am bit unfair but still I don't see why I would use Mia in NM.

I don't know the actual number of chapter slots by heart but at least until you get Ulki and Janaff in 3-7 there's enough room to use Mia: she's certainly better than beast tribe laguz, Heather, and Ilyana.

Mounteds and Fliers win by having (you guessed it) more movement, canto and 1-2 range

Most Foot units have 1-2 range (Nephy, Boyd) or just are superior (Ike)

Mages still have 1-2 range and Normal is much more forgiving about bad bulk. Also Siege tome and later possibly staff utility.

Assuming NM

Yet Smehow eddy and ziggy contribute the same if not more than mia who simply is another nephenee without shitton of 2-E bexp and 1-2 range. Heck I could argue Mia is so useless that Boyd is more usefull

Why has it been said multiple times in this thread that Mia, and sword users, lack 1-2 range? Even if you believe that the damage costs of equipping a wind edge make it a bad idea when you can equip something like a steel blade instead, it seems like an odd way of saying it to me. The option is undeniably there. You can't forge 1-2 range...but that's only a part 4 disadvantage against axes and lances.

[a.f.k.a. Howard Hughes]

I don't know the actual number of chapter slots by heart but at least until you get Ulki and Janaff in 3-7 there's enough room to use Mia: she's certainly better than beast tribe laguz, Heather, and Ilyana.

Fair Enough I suppose.

Why has it been said multiple times in this thread that Mia, and sword users, lack 1-2 range? Even if you believe that the damage costs of equipping a wind edge make it a bad idea when you can equip something like a steel blade instead, it seems like an odd way of saying it to me. The option is undeniably there. You can't forge 1-2 range...but that's only a part 4 disadvantage against axes and lances.

all realistic weapons with 1-2 range in part 3 (not including crossbows and Knifes because they suck, non-fire elemental magic because fire is awesome and Strom Swords because they are so rare that Ike wants em all)

Wind Edge 6 Mt, 60 hit, 20 uses

Javelin 7 Mt, 65 hit, 20 uses

Short Spear 10 Mt, 55 hit, 15 uses

Hand Axe 9 Mt, 70 hit, 25 uses

Short Axe 12 Mt, 60 hit 15 uses

Fire 5-10 Mt, 90-105 hit 40 uses

Elfire 7 Mt, 85 hit, 35 uses

Light 3-8 Mt, 100-125 hit, 40 uses

Ellight 5 Mt, 95 hit, 35 uses

As we see Wind Edge is simply horrible as far as raw numbers go. Lets remember that Mia's str isn't exactly fabulous either. After quick look to Base and Growth rates, following units Mia should be able to keep up with or beating as far as raw Str/Mag is considered: (Did not care about caps, those may affect)

Nephy, Brom, Heather, Oscar(?), Mist, Cats.

Nephy has 2-E BEXP(eases promotion) and option to pick Short Spear helping her a lot, Brom and Heather suck, Oscar has horse, Mist Heals and Cats are Cats.

All in all Mia at 1-2 range is very underwhelming and it only gets worse at Part 4. This limits her use quite a lot. When we also remember that her other quirks aren't that good in NM, yeah she isn't really unit I want to use.

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

if you don't want to use mia then i guess there isn't much of a point to using any other of the sword masters seeing how they are worse off

[a.f.k.a. Howard Hughes]

if you don't want to use mia then i guess there isn't much of a point to using any other of the sword masters seeing how they are worse off

No, they funktion differently.

Mia is far less useful and more in the way than eddy and perhaps ziggy

[Anouleth]

Why you would use any 7 move unit besides Ike in NM Part 3 is beyond me. Why bother when Ike/Titania/Haar/Oscar can take care of basically every role?

Mia would still be better than Zihark, though. Mia always helps out in 3-P and 3-1, Zihark basically has zero chapters to his name.