Rate the Unit: Sacred Stones Endgame

[MacLovin]

Haha, nope. He arena abuses.

Why does this not surprise me.

[Thor Odinson]

Man, I remember when I started off in FE, I really sucked. But using Seth saved my run anyway. I remember a few others died, but none of them are Seth.

[Samias]

Seth's only "bad" base is his HP, otherwise his bases and growths are comparable than every other paladin you get. Hell, his growths across the board are better than Kyle's. Seth at --/20 compared to any other mount at 20/20 actually just proves that you can just use Seth for the whole game and not be missing out on anything, because Seth is just as good. All Seth needs is an angelic robe, which you potentially can get infinites of.

Trainees require grinding, except Ross, who can actually reasonably chip things in the main game and not ever have to touch Valni. But there's no ignoring that Amelia and Ewan would be incredibly horrible without Valni. Ewan would be like the world's worst Est without a world map to train him up. If I had to rate Amelia and Ewan, since I missed the RTUs, yeah, you have to acknowledge that they take FOREVER to become of any use whatsoever. That's bad. Objectively bad.

It says a lot when in Ewan's joining chapter on Eirika's route, even in NORMAL mode, you absolutely want him to stay in that house until JUST before you clear the chapter, because he's that bad. 0 base defence? With a 15% growth? Yeah, uh, that's awful. Oh yeah, and on Ephraim's route, he's got 4 move and has to recruit Marisa (who is also bad). Ewan's loses to Lute in mag and speed growths, beats her (by 5% mind you) in HP and luck, (10%) in (unnecessary) skill, and ties in everything else. His con is a maximum of 8 in druid, which allows him to use a whopping Fire, Thunder, and Flux unhindered. Wow! That's better than Sage Lute who can barely lift a Fire tome without getting hit with AS penalties, but Mageknight Lute is only behind Mageknight/Druid Ewan by 1 con, which means both of them will only be using up to Thunder without AS penalties. The only reason to use Ewan is for the novelty of having a druid or a second summoner, or if you really hate yourself, a pupil (3). And I'm saying all this even when I use Ewan all the time and LIKE him, but I can objectively step back and say, "Wow, he's like Lute, except with less mag and I have to go back and grind level him." Or, if you make him a male sage, you can go "He's a Saleh with slightly better stats but a way worse staff rank."

Amelia stands out a little more from fellow cavs in that her luck stat is exemplary compared to all the others and she's far dodgier but with awful con. Or if you make her a general, she'll have a whopping 10(!) con and novelty axes. Except during the levels as a knight, you'll just want to cry as she goes nowhere fast and basically lives in the tower her whole life until you can give her a token deployment and leave her in the middle of the map to get all the kills, since that is the only way she'll gain levels. And yes, I use general Amelia too, but she's so abysmal until you give her boots, which is really only a possibility because you can get infinite boots in CC.

Pirate Ross can walk on water (and Berserker Ross on peaks) and is speedier than Garcia with similar strength growth. Garcia's easier to use off the bat, but Ross is probably the only one who could actually function on a no-Tower/skirmish playthrough.

I'm not gonna go over how wrong it is to rate a unit based on prepromote/unpromoted status. You can take whoever you want through Creature Campaign, but there's no denying certain units are just better in the main story and some are absolute trash. Dolza's rated the way he is because Dolza's just... um... well, Dolza. But Seth? It's a proven fact that Seth is not a crutch; He breaks the game because he is a prepromoted growth unit.

[CT075]

seth is totally a crutch

you see the best solution for someone who can't walk is a rocket-powered wheelchair

because fuck all you normal people

[a098]

Seth: 3/10 (4 -1 bias for being prepromote. Also got massacered by a RANGER in chapter 10.)

[HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA]

Vanessa: 6/10 (no bias)

[This would be my score too, because I hate her, but she's a flyer dammit]

Joshua: 9/10 (8 + 1 bias for being my awesome assassin)

Amelia: 10/10 (9.5+.5 bias for trainee, and being awesome as a general in general)

[hehe...did you know the first time I got her, she suicided on an archer. AN ARCHER.]

Duessel: 4/10 (5-1 bias because he is a prepromote.)

[Maybe in Eirika's route, but we're assuming best route right?]

Knoll: 8/10 (no bias)

[i like how he can't kill anything in his starting chapter despite being level 10]

L'Archel: 8/10 (7 +1 bias because she makes me laugh in the game)

[Of course, all level 3 staff bots who show up halfway through the game are awesome, especially if they have a lower staff rank then someone who you gave a lower score to (coughSalehcough)]

Ewan: 10/10 (9.5+.5 for trainee and being awesome)

[i like Ewan...but man, his 0 defense impresses no one]

Tethys: 0.5/10 (1-.5 bias (-1 bias for being completly and utterly useless but +.5 bias because of her name))

[bWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA]

Saleh: 3.5/10 (4.5 - 1 bias for being a prepromote)

[Look down]

Myrrh: 8/10 (10 - 2 bias because her dragonstone has only 50 uses)

[You don't need more than 50 uses to kick Lyon's and Morty's butts]

Saleh. Damn it. Why. Why did you gave a him score 6.5 points lower than Ewan, despite showing up at almost the same time as Ewan (a few chapters after in Eph mode), with an existent light magic rank and STAFFS, DAMMIT??? What did Ewan do to rank himself better than Saleh? Stats at 20/20 please:

Saleh HP 39.5 Mag 21.7 Skl 22.75 Spd 21.6 Lck 18.6 Def 13.7 Res 19.65

Ewan HP 43.5 Mag 25.15 Skl 21.8 Spd 23.45 Lck 28.5 Def 11.05 Res 25

So apparently, after approximately several hours of your life gone, you get a 10/20/20 Sage Ewan who...has better HP, Mag (not important with Excalibur), Spd (barely), Luck (lol) and Res (lol). With very little staff and light rank. While Ewan was off training up so he can actually measure up to Saleh, Saleh was busy warping and physic spamming and blowing stuff up with Excalibur. In order to get Ewan's weapon ranks up to something even remotely similar to Saleh (so you know, he can actually use stuff like Exacliber and Warp in the first place), you're going to have to waste even more time staff spamming and murdering monsters at Valni; time which could be spent, oh I don't know, beating the game? what how what why...

(mental breakdown ensues)

I can also say the same thing about L'Arachel vs Saleh, by the way.

[Baldrick]

[hehe...did you know the first time I got her, she suicided on an archer. AN ARCHER.]

So you gave her a Javelin, and had her attack an archer at range?

[You don't need more than 50 uses to kick Lyon's and Morty's butts]

You do need most of those uses to become strong enough to not get slaughtered.

While Ewan was off training up so he can actually measure up to Saleh, Saleh was busy warping and physic spamming or blowing stuff up with Excalibur, but not both because ranks are hard to build.

Fixed

In order to get Ewan's weapon ranks up to something even remotely similar to Saleh (so you know, he can actually use stuff like Exacliber and Warp in the first place), you're going to have to waste even more time staff spamming and murdering monsters at Valni; time which could be spent, oh I don't know, doing something more productive than playing a video game?

(mental breakdown ensues)

See above

I agree with what you say, but you're being rather elitist about it. Not to mention others have already chewed out this guy more succinctly.

[a098]

...sorry, was in a bad mood. I kinda snapped.

So you gave her a Javelin, and had her attack an archer at range?

Nah, I accidentally left her in the range of an archer after she got hit by another archer . But it's Amelia so meh.

You do need most of those uses to become strong enough to not get slaughtered.

On my first runthrough, I managed to get Myrrh to level 20 with less than 30 uses gone. I know PEMN but you just gotta keep her away from to 2 range guys and you'll be fine.

[Samias]

I see Myrhh as a Darkling Woods crutch. Since she has only 50 dragonstone uses, I can just fly Myrrh to the other side of the map, watch her probably get hit with stone, and then get swarmed with enemies, getting tinked every time. If she doesn't get hit with stone, then she just destroys every enemy that comes near her. She'll go from 1 to 20 in a single chapter. The only one she can't reliably take on is Morva and the other dracozombies, who are easily handled by someone with an S-rank weapon (aside from Gleip). Since Myrrh gains pretty much a level per kill, you're only going to use about half the stone for leveling purposes, and have more than enough left over for Lyon and Fomor if the rest of your team is underleveled, but the main reason to use her is to fly her over the mountains and lure everything away from your ferry + boss killer in Darkling Woods, or just self-improvement if you need another strong unit for the Final.

That's assuming you don't give Myrrh an angelic robe, in which case she could handle the final chapters on her lonesome. I don't see any other reason to use Myrrh, though, so I don't like giving her resources that could be spent on another character.

[Raven]

Myrrh needs a few levels under her belt before flying solo reliably in Darkling Woods.

[MacLovin]

Hey kids.

Stop trying to get rid of an ant with a Nuke.

Also, Myrrhs main problem is crappy HP base and mediocre spd.

[Irony]

1339212428[/url]' post='2011734']

Saleh. Damn it. Why. Why did you gave a him score 6.5 points lower than Ewan, despite showing up at almost the same time as Ewan (a few chapters after in Eph mode), with an existent light magic rank and STAFFS, DAMMIT??? What did Ewan do to rank himself better than Saleh? Stats at 20/20 please:

Saleh HP 39.5 Mag 21.7 Skl 22.75 Spd 21.6 Lck 18.6 Def 13.7 Res 19.65

Ewan HP 43.5 Mag 25.15 Skl 21.8 Spd 23.45 Lck 28.5 Def 11.05 Res 25

So apparently, after approximately several hours of your life gone, you get a 10/20/20 Sage Ewan who...has better HP, Mag (not important with Excalibur), Spd (barely), Luck (lol) and Res (lol). With very little staff and light rank. While Ewan was off training up so he can actually measure up to Saleh, Saleh was busy warping and physic spamming and blowing stuff up with Excalibur. In order to get Ewan's weapon ranks up to something even remotely similar to Saleh (so you know, he can actually use stuff like Exacliber and Warp in the first place), you're going to have to waste even more time staff spamming and murdering monsters at Valni; time which could be spent, oh I don't know, beating the game? what how what why...

(mental breakdown ensues)

I can also say the same thing about L'Arachel vs Saleh, by the way.

I made Ewan into a Druid. He was epic and survived a whole link battle and lost 12 hp. I also hate pre promotes, I rarely use them, including Seth. They steal exp that could be used training lower levelled units. Also Seth, saleh, and most of my pre promotes have actually died several times and Innes was the only one that didn't. On easy mode! Saleh died against a really bad monster unit for crying out loud! I also have about 7 light users, and all but one are better then Saleh.

[riariadne]

I made Ewan into a Druid. He was epic and survived a whole link battle and lost 12 hp. I also hate pre promotes, I rarely use them, including Seth. They steal exp that could be used training lower levelled units. Also Seth, saleh, and most of my pre promotes have actually died several times and Innes was the only one that didn't. On easy mode! Saleh died against a really bad monster unit for crying out loud! I also have about 7 light users, and all but one are better then Saleh.

That's not actually the issue of them being bad, that's just your opinions being certifiably incorrect. Personal Experience Means Nothing, by the way.

[Rewjeo]

The whole EXP stealing thing? Yeah, the team where you use the prepromotes will still be better for a VERY long time, and never becomes much worse. Who cares if your units grow more slowly if overall your team is better?

Um, Saleh has 30 HP and 8 DEF at base level. Ewan has 15 HP and 0 DEF. How exactly is it that you manage to keep Ewan alive and not Saleh?

[ZemZem]

I made Ewan into a Druid. He was epic and survived a whole link battle and lost 12 hp. I also hate pre promotes, I rarely use them, including Seth. They steal exp that could be used training lower levelled units. Also Seth, saleh, and most of my pre promotes have actually died several times and Innes was the only one that didn't. On easy mode! Saleh died against a really bad monster unit for crying out loud! I also have about 7 light users, and all but one are better then Saleh.

Hmm. Try an Ephraim's Route Hard Mode run without using the Tower of Valni, any skirmishes, arena abuse, and the Lagdou Ruins. And since you love using Ewan so much, use him. Amelia, too. After that, report back to us.

[MacLovin]

Guys, she's talking Em,And she still managed to kill Seth in Em.Also, how do you keep Ewan alive as a Druid with that crap con?

[Irony]

The whole EXP stealing thing? Yeah, the team where you use the prepromotes will still be better for a VERY long time, and never becomes much worse. Who cares if your units grow more slowly if overall your team is better?

Um, Saleh has 30 HP and 8 DEF at base level. Ewan has 15 HP and 0 DEF. How exactly is it that you manage to keep Ewan alive and not Saleh?

I train most (excluding prepromotes and Myrrh) of my units in the Tower of Valni. I don't care if it takes me longer to complete the game, I train them all anyway. I actually enjoy it, and defeating the Demon King was AMAZING!!!! :D Ewan caught up with the rest of my units and is really good overall, with most of his stats higher then 20 as a lvl 20 Druid. Saleh is a fail luck wise, so he gets hit a LOT, and dies. Ewan has lost 1 battle, and Saleh has lost 3..............

And Trainee verses other units. Ross is far superior to Donzla, with only his HP lower, and Amelia is better then Gilliam, with only HP and Def lower. Ewan Is better then moulder, with Moulder's HP and Def higher then Ewan's, but Ewan has 2x the magic stat.

And My God, Gerik

60HP, 25 Str, 30 Skill, 26 speed, 19 luck (Not capped), 25 def, 15 res (Not capped).

No stat boosting items used on him whatsoever.

[Shadow Mir]

I train most (excluding prepromotes and Myrrh) of my units in the Tower of Valni. I don't care if it takes me longer to complete the game, I train them all anyway. I actually enjoy it, and defeating the Demon King was AMAZING!!!! :D Ewan caught up with the rest of my units and is really good overall, with most of his stats higher then 20 as a lvl 20 Druid. Saleh is a fail luck wise, so he gets hit a LOT, and dies. Ewan has lost 1 battle, and Saleh has lost 3..............

And Trainee verses other units. Ross is far superior to Donzla, with only his HP lower, and Amelia is better then Gilliam, with only HP and Def lower. Ewan Is better then moulder, with Moulder's HP and Def higher then Ewan's, but Ewan has 2x the magic stat.

And My God, Gerik

60HP, 25 Str, 30 Skill, 26 speed, 19 luck (Not capped), 25 def, 15 res (Not capped).

No stat boosting items used on him whatsoever.

You do realize that just because a certain unit turned out a certain way for you doesn't mean that someone else will have the same unit turn out exactly as they did for you, right...?

[ZemZem]

Hmm. Try an Ephraim's Route Hard Mode run without using the Tower of Valni, any skirmishes, arena abuse, and the Lagdou Ruins. And since you love using Ewan so much, use him. Amelia, too. After that, report back to us.

Do this. Please.

[Colonel M]

I don't get how Seth can die in Easy Mode more than, say, any other unit. His Spd + Luck is actually good for Avoid stat and he can bend the weapon triangle just fine. Or at least mine was since he capped Spd, and had about 25 Luck after a Goddess Icon. With Cormag and Garcia supporting him, he became a dodging God. 30 Avoid with supports + 80 from his other stats? No one could hit him!

Except what's really funny is that Seth can have roughly 57 Avoid at --/20 on average, then adding the 30 from supports gets him to 87, +15 sometimes for WTA. Seth should only be dying... If you're terrible at this game.

[Breezy Kanzaki]

Why DID Amelia and Ewan get such low scores? If anyone bothers to train them, they end up better then prepromotes themselves. Also, Ewan as a lvl 20 druid (having promoted to druid at lvl 20) can KO any monster in 1-2 hits, and is my best magic unit. Amelia, 2nd best non mounted unit as she can weild all 3 weapons in weapon tri and has the 2nd best stats (After Gerik).

Gerik deserves his high score though, he was AMAZING!!!! Tethys on the other hand, I NEVER use. She cannot attack, wastes a unit space and can get killed realy easily.

If I were to rate the units, then I would rate them thus:

Eirika: 7/10 (6 + 1 bias for being the main lord)

Seth: 3/10 (4 -1 bias for being prepromote. Also got massacered by a RANGER in chapter 10.)

Franz: 9/10 (7 + 2 for being awesome in presonality)

Gilliam: 5/10 (No bias)

Moulder: 7/10 (8 -1 bias for ending up with 6 magic at lvl 19 sage. Had to unwillingly support him with Clom to help him kill SOMETHING)

Vanessa: 6/10 (no bias)

Garcia: 8/10 (No bias)

Ross: 10/10 (9 + 1 bias for being a trainee.)

Neimi: 7/10 (6 +1 bias for her C support with Amelia)

Colm: 8/10 (No bias)

Lute: 9/10 (no bias)

Artur: 9/10 (no bias)

Natasha: 7/10 (6.5 +.5 bias for looking strangely like my sis )

Joshua: 9/10 (8 + 1 bias for being my awesome assassin)

Ephraim: 9/10 (no bias)

Kyle: 7/10 (no bias)

Forde: 7/10 (6.5+.5 bias because he is an artist)

Tana: 8/10 (no bias)

Amelia: 10/10 (9.5+.5 bias for trainee, and being awesome as a general in general)

Duessel: 4/10 (5-1 bias because he is a prepromote.)

Knoll: 8/10 (no bias)

Cormag: 9/10 (8.5+.5 bias because everything about him is freakin awesome)

L'Archel: 8/10 (7 +1 bias because she makes me laugh in the game)

Dozla: 3/10 (2.5+.5 bias because he's amusing)

Ewan: 10/10 (9.5+.5 for trainee and being awesome)

Marisa: 7/10 (6.5+.5 bias for looking awesome.)

Tethys: 0.5/10 (1-.5 bias (-1 bias for being completly and utterly useless but +.5 bias because of her name))

Gerik: 10/10 (9.5+.5 bias for being God)

Rennac: 1/10 (2-1 bias for being one of my worst units.)

Innes: 3/10 (3.5-.5 bias (-1 bias for being a prepromote but +.5 bias for his A support with Erikia))

Saleh: 3.5/10 (4.5 - 1 bias for being a prepromote)

Myrrh: 8/10 (10 - 2 bias because her dragonstone has only 50 uses)

Syrene: 3/10 (4-1 bias for being a prepromote)

I fell a bit late to the party, but I'll chip in my 2 cents here.

Let's take this apart one bold by one.

Seth: I highly doubt Seth would die by either the boss of Chapter 10 Eph. or the generic in Chaptter 10 Eir. Seth can, and has by many people, SOLO the entire game. Why he gets a 3/10 for killing EVERYTHING in the game is beyond me.

Ross: He takes a while to start up when you can be giving kills to 'Ness for early Wyvern, or Franz for Paladin action. And Trainees objectivley stink in FE8 speed runs, except for chip damage.

Neimi: She's an Archer, need I say more?

Amelia: Once again, not worth your time to train in speed runs, but her Speedwing helps dudes like Garcia or Duessel SMASH better.

Duessel: Triple A ranks, comes rigth before Ghost Ship in Eph., where the tanks are welcome, and he can SMASH with the Silver Lance Seth has if you don't use him, and Orson's Silver Sword.

Knoll: Despite me liking the guy, his 0 Luck hurts him in the long run. The Hoplon Guyard is better used to prevent Riev from critting whomever you use to kill him in Chapter 19.

Ewan: Outclassed by Saleh and Lute, not worth your time.

Marisa: Level 5 when you have Joshua at a higher level and Gerrick soon after in Eph. and before in Eir., not worth it once again.

Tethys; I fail to see how Having Seth smash 2 enemies or having Saleh warp 2 people to kill Lyon in Final is useless.

Saleh: Couple Staff ranks away from warp and can easily S rank Anima or Light if you want him to.

Syrene: She can fly, triangle attack with 'Ness and Tana, and can prey off of enemy Druids in her join chapter.

[Elieson]

Golden, lemme ask you.

Is a unit like Seth bad because you think statistically he is bad, our because he pulls exp from other units (who may or may not even need it)?

[Colonel M]

Miror Breeze, keep in mind that our friend here is definitely not playing for a Speedrun, so he / she is not really aware of it. My problem is, if this person is willing to grind so much, how units that are already good such as Seth can die to even an average skilled tactician. Surely, if Seth was damaged and survived a turn you would heal him. And the enemy's Atk, aside from promoted enemies, is never really high.

[Breezy Kanzaki]

Miror Breeze, keep in mind that our friend here is definitely not playing for a Speedrun, so he / she is not really aware of it. My problem is, if this person is willing to grind so much, how units that are already good such as Seth can die to even an average skilled tactician. Surely, if Seth was damaged and survived a turn you would heal him. And the enemy's Atk, aside from promoted enemies, is never really high.

I am aware he/she is not a speed run player, but giving Seth a 3/10 because of his/her reasoning is still stupid. But even if he/she doesn't play for turns, he/she should still aknowledge the fact that Seth is the best unit in SS and should consider that in his/her score.

[Anouleth]

No enemy stats for Chapter 10 Rangers, but Chapter 13 Rangers have 18-22ATK and sometimes face WTD, so they're ~5HKOing base level Seth.

Quite aside from Seth having one of the best HP/DEF growths in the game.

[Thor Odinson]

Learn to stop relying on the tower so much. It's not gonna do you favours in most of the other FEs, especially Tellius where they don't even have arenas.

Edited June 9, 2012 by Fat Bunny