Rate the Unit: Day 42 - Rofl

[Ema Skye]

Dat Rules (borrowed/stolen from Integrity)

- Ratings are assumed to be on Hard Mode (JP Maniac). And only hard mode!

- Votes need some explanation regarding their gameplay performance to be counted. If somebody else said what you want to already, quote them explicitly.

+/- ≤1 point extra regarding personality/appearance is encouraged, but no more. If you exercise your bias privileges, please do so explicitly.

- Numerical votes out of 10, or something proportional to it. Make it easy to calculate for my sake.

- Every ranking phase ends when the next RTU thread is posted (at this point, it's hard to tell).

- I will insist you do not use the "Not X" reason on any character, where X is another unit. If you do, your vote will be thrown out.

- "Recruits X" or "takes you to X chapter" or "Gives you Bronze Sword" arguments are explicitly banned. C'mon, people, this shouldn't need to be a rule. That's not gameplay performance.

- Assume that the character in question is being recruited.

- Similar to the "Recruits X" rule, do not use "she brings a Savior to the team" as an argument.

- BEXP is free to be used in any quantity on any character.

- Skills can be reassigned freely.

- No transfers.

- I withhold the privilege to tell you your rating is bogus and demand you revise it if it breaks any of the above. I will not throw out votes anonymously, you will be informed and given a chance to revise. I will not throw your vote out if I do not support your opinion. Possible reasons for a tossed vote include: your vote is higher/lower than the vast majority to "balance the score" and failure to justify a radically different score.

Averages:

Fiona: 1.20

Meg: 1.34

Astrid: 2.10

Lethe: 2.21

Vika: 2.40

Leonardo: 2.53

Lucia: 3.06

Danved: 3.11

Mist: 3.11

Tormod: 3.28

Brom: 3.56

Ilyana: 3.75

Makalov: 4.00

Nealuchi: 4.41

Tauroneo: 4.50

Geoffery: 4.50

Black Knight: 4.60

Maurim: 4.72

Kieran: 4.82

Aran: 4.92

Laura: 5.13

Heather: 5.29

Soren: 5.45

Edward: 6.31

Micaiah: 6.50

Calill: 6.59

Mordecai: 7.17

Marcia: 7.31

Zihark: 7.44

Nephenee: 7.74

Elincia: 8.21

Leanne: 8.38

Rafiel: 8.45

Jill: 8.46

Volug: 8.87

Sothe: 8.93

Nailah: 9.00

Nolan: 9.06

Ike: 9.28

Titania: 9.76

Haar: 9.91

Threw in an addition to the throwing out vote rule, so make sure you read it. Also, from now on, please bold your votes. Makes it easier for me to find them.

[Shadow Mir]

3/10. Really took a level in badass between PoR and RD, considering he's not nearly as difficult to raise in this game as he was in PoR. Sadly, however, he's held back by his low starting level, and his defenses aren't that hot either.

Edited June 13, 2012 by Golden Cucco

[Ema Skye]

My main beef with Rolf is that Shinon's always around when he is, making using Rolf difficult to justify with competition always being available. Rolf will surpass 20/1 Shinon in Str at x/13, while he'll always be slower and with about equal durability (Rolf wins against magic, but Shinon'll win against physical). Shinon's close to perfect (for a Sniper) at base, while Rolf has to grow. I like bases more than growths (and even then, Shinon beats Rolf in some growths like Speed), so I won't be rating Rofl very high. But the two do function close to equal. He's not going to be super awesome until Part 4, but he's pretty cool when he gets there.

4/10

Edited June 13, 2012 by Lucina

[Ciarre]

3/10

His bases are pretty meh, and since this is is HM, he's not going to getting very much exp from stealing kills/taking potshots in his lower levels. He can be pretty useful once he gets going, but it takes a lot of time for him to get there on this mode.

[Jedi]

Rolf the young archer taught by Shinon

Rolf has good base stats, excelling in strength, with decent speed and skill, as well as having decent HP for his class. But he comes at level 1 Sniper so your going to have to baby him for a bit before he really breaks out and starts double attacking, but once he does ooooo man he does. He has very high HP and Str rates when he levels making him a beast when he gets higher and as a Marksman that kind of power 3 spaces away can be devastating.

Now his weak points [other then low starting level], his Defense and Resistance which he doesn't get up much, so he is a bit of a glass cannon but a good one. He is not nearly as bulky as Shinon but if your willing to use him you'll see a good unit.

Rolf has good availability being in the majority of the game after part 3 begins

5.5/10

Edited June 13, 2012 by Jedisupersonic

[Samias]

Pros:

+Archers finally get some 1-2 range weapons

+There's a couple of ballista that are actually strategically placed

+Actually has some pretty nice bases for his level

+That strength and HP growth

Cons:

-Underleveled

-His other growths are kind of meh

-Good luck prying that Double Bow from Shinon's masterful hands

-Outclassed by Shinon no matter what

Pretty good in Easy, decent in Normal, gets kind of eh in Hard. He starts underleveled but has some ballista to use to have an accurate long-range chip. He's fine but nothing special, though if he makes it to promotion (doubtful), the marksmen class makes archers weep with joy with its perma 2-3 range on top of a great improvement on bow selection. There actually isn't much to say about Rolf except that he's now a lot more on the side of "passable", but Shinon literally joins at the same time. Shinon is amazing and Rolf is not. Considering his availability being EXACTLY the same as Shinon, it's hard to justify using Rolf on the higher difficulties. Especially since you'd need to feed Rolf kills that would be better for other characters who are also itching for exp. Rolf also has a lot of trouble even scratching the many generals that show up in this game. At least Rolf isn't the worst character in the game anymore.

Transfer Rolf is a bit of a different story but he's still not as good as Shinon, and we're not rating transfers.

I'll give Rolf a 3.75/10.

[Shadow Mir]

Archers finally get some 1-2 range weapons

I agree, that's pretty nice, but since crossbows suck so much and the Double Bow's not available until endgame...

This screenshot details snipers' woes well.

Edited June 13, 2012 by Golden Cucco

[MacLovin]

2.5/10

Still can't beat the master.

Ok, fine.

-Room to grow is a double edged sword.

-His bases kinda stink due to HM

-He wants bexp, lots of it.

-Marksman is a good class.

Shitty unit in HM, that requires alot of resources that other units could use better.

IMO, a slightli worse Soren

Edited June 13, 2012 by Sharpy

[Jimmy_Smith]

Rolf, a poor boy who gotten outclass by Shinon in everyway except str and maybe HP.

He is not a bad unit IMO (expect a litle high score from me), he has little flaw but Shinon is just too good.

It had no reason to use him except you REALLY need 2nd bow unit.

Pro

-Amazing Str growth (call him shota!! he will be more muscle than Ike and Boyd in a few years!!)

-Amazing HP growth

-Decent Skl/Spd growth

-Use bow, a weapon that so few can use

-Good available

Con

-USE BOW!! ever it's a weapon that not many can use, it's not that good because lack of fire power

-Underlevel

-Poor def

-Outclass by Shinon(most important)

7.0 - 3.0 for gotten outclass by Shinon

Overall 4.0 (7.0 if gotten outclass by Shinon didn't count. Your call, Lucina)

Edited June 13, 2012 by Jimmy_Smith

[Sunwoo]

- I will insist you do not use the "Not X" reason on any character, where X is another unit. If you do, your vote will be thrown out.

I'm not Lucina, but some of your rating veers dangerously close to this rule. You're docking Rolf three whole points for not being Shinon and claiming it to be your most important point in his weaknesses.

[Baldrick]

The "Not X" rule was originally "Not Seth", i.e. you can't say every character in FE8 is worthless because Seth is so gamebreaking but now it's been taken too far. Rolf is not in a vacuum; his performance compared to Shinon (in the context of bow allocation and the niche available to archers, of course) should be relevant. Having said that, Jimmy is obviously trying to pick a fight. Try again dude.

Edited June 13, 2012 by Baldrick

[Ema Skye]

I'm not Lucina, but some of your rating veers dangerously close to this rule. You're docking Rolf three whole points for not being Shinon and claiming it to be your most important point in his weaknesses.

^

@Jimmy_Smith: Yeah dude, try again.

Edited June 13, 2012 by Lucina

[MacLovin]

I love how he thinks Bows are even relevently useful.

[Dark Sage]

No enemy phase with bad bases and a slow leveling speed. Pretty much the definition of bad, but you really can do worse than him.

3/10

[Sunwoo]

Well, it's true that Shinon outclasses Rolf and that can't be changed. But surely that point shouldn't be a person's only reasoning (or even main point) is what I'm saying.

[nano]

His base level is way too low for HM, there is almost no way for him to get caught up to speed, especially since even the stronger units want the Bexp for faster third tier/slowplay. He can certainly help in 3-P with the ballista, and occasionally provide a small chip. Just not important overall.

2.5/10

[Ema Skye]

@Yellow: Yeah, I thought you were talking about my vote (I saw my name in the quote and yeah... It's late and I need sleep).

Also, bold votes please.

Edited June 13, 2012 by Lucina

[Jimmy_Smith]

The "Not X" rule was originally "Not Seth", i.e. you can't say every character in FE8 is worthless because Seth is so gamebreaking but now it's been taken too far. Rolf is not in a vacuum; his performance compared to Shinon (in the context of bow allocation and the niche available to archers, of course) should be relevant. Having said that, Jimmy is obviously trying to pick a fight. Try again dude.

I see a rule that "Not X" is not allow, but in this very thread, many people rate Rolf with a downback "Not Shinon"(ever Lucina use this),

and it's reasonable to call that. He is REALLY overshadow by Shinon.

They both has the same available, the same class and most importantly, are bow unit.

It's has very little reason to use more than one bow unit in this game.

If they are both cavalier or wyvern rider, you can use them both and I will rate them separately but they are not.

So, I rate him with 2 rating, because the rule "Not X" should be exception for this, but that's not my call to decide, so I'm leave it up to the host to pick whatever he/she see fit.

I'm try to follow the rule and respect the host and that's make me a bad guy?

Edited June 13, 2012 by Jimmy_Smith

[Shadow Mir]

I see a rule that "Not X" is not allow, but in this very thread, many people rate Rolf with a downback "Not Shinon"(ever Lucina use this),

and it's reasonable to call that. He is REALLY overshadow by Shinon.

They both has the same available, the same class and most importantly, are bow unit.

It's has very little reason to use more than one bow unit in this game.

If they are both cavalier or wyvern rider, you can use them both and I will rate them separately but they are not.

So, I rate him with 2 rating, because the rule "Not X" should be exception for this, but that's not my call to decide, so I'm leave it up to the host to pick whatever he/she see fit.

I'm try to follow the rule and respect the host and that's make me a bad guy?

What you're doing is like trying to justify speeding by saying that others were doing it too - a violation is a violation, no matter the reasoning used as an excuse. And you're using the fact that Rolf's not Shinon as your reason for docking him THREE points.

Edited June 13, 2012 by Golden Cucco

[Baldrick]

@Jimmy: I thought you were trying to give Rolf a 7, and justifying it using an interpretation of "Not X" I don't like. If your opinion was he's worth a 4, but you weren't sure if it'd break the "Not X" rule, then I apologise. In any case, it's probably better to just give the score you think, and change it if it's disallowed.

[Jimmy_Smith]

What you're doing is like trying to justify speeding by saying that others were doing it too - a violation is a violation, no matter the reasoning used as an excuse. And you're using the fact that Rolf's outshined by Shinon as your reason for docking him THREE points.

That why I say "Your call, Lucina".

This is his/her topic, so it's his/her call to decide, I'm just a voter.

4.0 or 7.0 whichever is fine by me, I just say my reason.

If Lucina see I'm violate the rule than it's 7.0.

If he/she think my reason is reasonable than it's 4.0.

Or if he/she see my vote is not worth taking, he/she can ignore my vote completely.

yup , 7.0 is maybe a little too high for Rolf standard, but I will give him this rating "If Shinon is not exit in this game" mind set.

7.0 is fine for best bow unit in the game.

@Jimmy: I thought you were trying to give Rolf a 7, and justifying it using an interpretation of "Not X" I don't like. If your opinion was he's worth a 4, but you weren't sure if it'd break the "Not X" rule, then I apologise. In any case, it's probably better to just give the score you think, and change it if it's disallowed.

No need to apologise, my friend.

This is internet, where we can only use text to communicate and misunderstood is a very common things.

Edited June 13, 2012 by Jimmy_Smith

[Excellen Browning]

I wonder why some people think Rolf has good str/spd bases when he does like 10 damage at most and doesn't double. Even on NM. I'm not gonna compare him to Shinon because that's not even necessary. Rolf's bases are appalling, therefore he has a tough time getting EXP for himself and even if you feed him I doubt he'll ever start really contributing to your team.

Still, not Lyre.

2/10 Decided to apply -1 bias to somewhat compensate for various people seriously overrating him.

Edited June 13, 2012 by Daigoji Excellen

[Fizdiz]

I came into this thread hoping I could find some shining example of how great Rolf is at being Rolf, however the more I look at the numbers the worse it seems. Oh and this is my first time participating in an FE debate in quite a few years so don't kill me if I don't follow a standard :)

Growths

Rolf/Shinon

HP: 85/50

Str: 75/40

Mag: 10/15

Skl: 45/70

Spd: 45/65

Lck: 35/30

Def: 35/45

Res: 20/20

Base

Rolf/Shinon

HP: 32/43

Str: 17/21

Mag: 3/7

Skl: 20/28

Spd: 19/24

Lck: 13/15

Def: 13/20

Res: 9/14

Someone like me would just baby Rolf enough to make that 75 strength growth matter, however most won't and shouldn't need to. Snipers and Marksmen should ideally be used for their crit and speed ratings to ensure any well-planned attack will land you a kill. In this department Rolf is simply average, and that's what kills it for me in hard mode. Even with the class bonus to critical hits it still doesn't seem like enough unless you get perfect growths. With Shinon topping both speed and skill you eliminate any need for Rolf in this stage of the game. High HP looks nice but if you're allowing your ranged units to take hits in the first place there is a problem. I guess it's nice that in the situation that Rolf is cornered he might survive.. well.. one attack? I think I would rather have Def than HP anyways and Shinon wins there. Strength would be Rolf's only saving grace in hard mode, so long as you take the time to raise it. One thing that is kind of cool is how close the bases appear between the two archers although I believe they are at least 10 levels apart. It's not that Rolf is a horrible unit, it's just that Shinon outclasses him in all the stats that matter to a Marksman other than strength. Rolf is a solid unit in anything but hard mode, which doesn't matter at all for the purpose of this discussion.

5/10

[charlie_]

He's okay, but really to get going in Hard Mode, he needs the Killer Bow, and possibly Adept. He's not a bad unit, it's just that Shinon does his job with less resources.

4/10

[Parrhesia]

I'm sorry, but I can't see Rolf as a 7/10 on the sole condition of Shinon falling into a crevasse. Is a level 1 sniper in a team of badasses on HM really worth 7 on his own merits? Being the best archer out of ASTRID and LEONARDO is worth NOTHING, save for the likelihood of getting the Double Bow if ANYONE gets it.