The concept of fanfiction

[shadowofchaos]

Let me start by stating that I have a low view of fanfiction due to certain experiences, but I do deal with it and not end up on a crusade against it because my "sister" is very big into it.

I'm honestly curious to the motivation behind it, and to why it seems so similar to the situations present in the spriting section of the forum. So BECAUSE I have a low opinion of it and that I have friends who read it and make it, and we generally have mutual respect for each other's opinion about it, I'm curious to see people's opinon's about it here.

So let's start with my experience with it. And I gotta say, it's pretty unfair to judge it just from this, because it's a small sample.

Two words: "Rabid fangirls".

Even from the friends who make fanfiction and the ones who read fanfiction in the game room... my friends have been doing it for the laughs. The writers' goals were to set out to do the impossible and "write a worse fanfiction than My Immortal." The readers? They were in it for the laughs of reading "smutty ship fanfics to see how desperate the fangirls were to have their self-insert OC have a romantic relationship with their favorite character"... or even worse, ship their favorite yaoi pairings from works like the Tales of series. Don't even start on the crossovers.

The main thing ingrained in my mind from those experiences with it, is that "if there's no ship, there's no motivation for fanfiction."

Okay, now THAT's over, I'm interested help people let me see the GOOD side of fanfiction.

I mean, fans like to express themselves. For example, ROM Hacking is arguably a form of fanfiction when it comes to expanding character stories... like say Elibian Nights. Or [lol Ray] Fire Emblem 404 way back when, or Fire Emblem: A Sacred Dawn DX in the form of alternate realities to Grado's story coinciding with part of Tellius's, however with the point being on "is the story believable in the setting so that the player is able to play in this scenario?"

Fans express their endearment of a work they enjoy through writing. That's cool. They'd rather explore an aspect of a work that's already established than start their own. That's cool too.

Okay, I can see your motivation. I'd be lying if I said I didn't dream up--- ahahahahaha...AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Hahahaha-- "dream up"---AHAHAHAHAHA.

Okay I'm done. (People who know me will get why I laughed at those two words)

...I'd be lying if I said I didn't dream up some pretty cheesy non-canon scenarios about works I enjoyed.

But there's a point where I think it goes from "fanfiction" as tribute to the existing work with some freedom of movement in canon... to "Awww, hey you two characters... make babies. NAO."

It's all titles of "*blah blah blah* I think this is a cool title - character x character fanfic".

When it goes from "hey let's explore some possibilities of the character's backstory" to "Hey I'm saying we're exploring their backstory, but all I'm really doing is ship ship ship ship ship ship... let's add some conflict... ship ship ship."

It's like a Nukige Visual Novel.

My experience has been "Oh, we can explore an event that happens to a character or place somewhat in canon that causes conflict and shows why this character or group of characters are loved by the fandom--- but nah, let's just have them make babies. Not scared off yet? Let's have this dreamy character make babies with my self-insert OC!"

So yeah... by all means. Please help me see the other side of this.

Another thing that I've noticed when people come post in the written works section and disappear. Furetchen is infamous for his very... let's just say "mean" methods of tearing apart people's writing.

It's the same way with people's sprites in the spriting section. I do believe he doesn't care that you're only starting out or that you've been doing this for a long time. He's not putting you down for that. Despite his... methods, he's able to tear apart things that don't make sense. And from most fanfiction writer's reactions here from the posts, even though they're pretty much possibly days, weeks, or even months apart... their reaction is pretty much, "You're just hating on me for no reason. My work is awesome. Go away."

It's like the spriting section. It's what turns me off. They're refusing to recognize the flaws in their work... even if he spent his time tearing it apart piece by piece. If you can get past the hostility, you'd realize that "piece by piece" part is important. He tore apart the flaws in the details, which you can then address. He didn't just bash it, he bashed the crucial cracks that you're refusing to see.

Obviously, it needs "hey, Furet, tone it down a bit", but the whole refusal to accept criticism part of fanfic writers it what REALLY makes me a have a low opinion of them.

Okay, so now that this stupid wall of text is finished... can anyone help me?

Edited September 8, 2012 by shadowofchaos

[Anacybele]

Well, firstly, you're going to see a lot of shipping in the FE fandom because pairings are a big part of the series. So if you read a lot of FE fanfiction, expect that.

But there are still plenty of fics out there that don't focus on shipping, like Gunlord's Wayward Son (which is well-received, if I remember right. Haven't read it myself because I wouldn't understand it due to having little knowledge of Renault). Heck, some of them even still have characters married or dating or some such, but there's not really much romance, if any. The focus is elsewhere. Like the FE7 fic I'm starting. Sain and Fiora are married in it and even have two children, but the focus is more on the bond between them as well as between Sain and Kent. Bonds of family love and friendship.

However, a shipping fic can still be very good and very well-written. My co-author, for example, wrote two fics featuring the IkexElincia pairing (because he loves that pair as much as I do. ^^) and a good deal of romance between the two. And he's the best writer I know. He uses imagery, description, vocabularly, dialogue, and everything so excellently. I loved his stories even more than I expected. It wasn't just IkexElincia that made me like them. No, I loved the entire plotlines of these stories.

Also, yeah Furetchen should tone it down a lot. Criticism isn't supposed to be mean or discouraging. It's supposed to be helpful and encouraging and perhaps even show that the author has potential.

[Crazy Foxie]

I can't say that I can help you with what you're looking for, but I'll give it my best.

I have been writing fanfiction for maybe about 3/4 years. I'm not a ship, ship, ship kind of person (I've attempted, but I'm better doing my own thing) and instead focus on works that basically explores areas that other people have not. It makes it more unique to me and provides stimulation for me. I would do it either to kill time, self-fulfillment or for the readers. I lean moreso towards humour and occasionally fluff because there's a lot I can work with.

The concept behind fanfiction...Yeah, a lot of it has to do with OCs recently. There weren't too much around when I first started up, but perhaps with the influx of today's literature, it's easier for people to create themselves as part of the story rather than use the existing characters and their respective personalities to weave their writing around.

It is very natural for writers to disappear with no notice. Certain circumstances in real life hinder the overall progress of writing - someone like me needs to spend a concentrated time writing, and say someone has school obligations, it's difficult to set their priorities. Other reasons could be lack of interest, certain projects that engage them more or they simply forget. There are some who dislike criticism - it's difficult to tell them apart from the other writers, but I can say that it's not as simple to say that every fanfiction writer refuses to listen to any form of advice that could improve writing. In most cases, people would say that they are open to opinions. Those who don't usually have such confidence in themselves they believe they are good writers.

Of course, I'm only talking of my experiences in Fanfiction.net and Deviantart. I'm not sure to what extent it can be applied to Serenes Forest.

[Anacybele]

I would do it either to kill time, self-fulfillment or for the readers. I lean moreso towards humour and occasionally fluff because there's a lot I can work with.

I agree with this. I also write fanfiction to practice and improve my writing skills so that I might one day get an original work published. I also enjoy writing funny scenes.

The concept behind fanfiction...Yeah, a lot of it has to do with OCs recently. There weren't too much around when I first started up, but perhaps with the influx of today's literature, it's easier for people to create themselves as part of the story rather than use the existing characters and their respective personalities to weave their writing around.

This is true too. I'm guilty of the OC thing myself, since the vast majority of the cast in my fic Dawn of Darkness is original. I wanted to continue the Tellius series, but I also wanted to try my hand at creating a continent and a new cast of characters. So I did both by having a few Tellius characters travel to this land after the events of RD. And I've never not totally enjoyed writing this story.

It is very natural for writers to disappear with no notice. Certain circumstances in real life hinder the overall progress of writing - someone like me needs to spend a concentrated time writing, and say someone has school obligations, it's difficult to set their priorities. Other reasons could be lack of interest, certain projects that engage them more or they simply forget. There are some who dislike criticism - it's difficult to tell them apart from the other writers, but I can say that it's not as simple to say that every fanfiction writer refuses to listen to any form of advice that could improve writing. In most cases, people would say that they are open to opinions. Those who don't usually have such confidence in themselves they believe they are good writers.

Yeah, lots of people do have lives. And not every author is a stubborn mule when it comes to criticism. In fact, I've yet to meet an author that's like this (other than my past self, which has changed drastically since then).

Of course, I'm only talking of my experiences in Fanfiction.net and Deviantart. I'm not sure to what extent it can be applied to Serenes Forest.

This is true for me as well, admittedly. xP

[Chalis]

I think it has a lot to do with the age where writing becomes another tool to express one's self. Think of it as like with art, there are amateurs, naturals, sometimes prodigies. Some will accept criticism, some will not; some are modest and careful to explain and build up in their actual writing instead of coming up with excuses like high horse writers would. It's a little more heartbreaking in the case of fanfiction because a lot of other things come into play like a person's personal view of their characters that others may not agree with ("OOC") even if the rest of the work had good technical writing and style. Factoring in fandoms, what kind of people they attract and why some would enter them, and certain ships, and just plain visiting somewhere other than ff.net, the "setting" of a work can also affect the quality your reading experience.

A great thing that's been happening recently (or at least more since the last time I checked) is Beta readers and collaborations. Some pretty fantastic fanfiction has been made with these additions. Again this is still dependent on how well-versed the reader/collaborator is on the subject and writing in general, so two fangirls getting together--one being a fan of the other, especially--may actually do the opposite effect or be as useless as those comments you look so down on. But hey, it could still improve the quality to their target fans, you never know.

[Anacybele]

I honestly hate when people complain that an existing character is OoC. This is fine if the author is trying to strictly stick to canon, but haven't people ever heard of What-If stories? These are stories that change characters or settings or something to ask the readers "What if so-and-so was like this instead of like that?" It's just a fun little way to answer such questions and can be quite entertaining. For example, I know someone on DA who wants to write an FE fic asking "What if Soren was raised by his father as the Daein prince?" I dislike Soren, but this would be an interesting read, I bet.

[Arch]

I think this is called post-ception. I've got a post within my post!

But anyways, I think people need to just, like, be chill. Write stuff, enjoy yourself, and create something that you're proud of. Push the limits of your creativity, put yourself out there, and then listen to the people who comment; they're just trying to help, more often than not. I don't know of anyone who takes particular glee in tearing peoples' works apart, save for, of course, Furetchen. Enjoy your craft, listen to feedback, grow your talents (that goes for all of the arts around here).

Edited September 8, 2012 by Arch

[Duff Ostrich]

If I wrote Fire Emblem fan fiction I would probably do something deliberately stupid to compensate for my lack of writing ability. Like, I would write an uncomfortable romance between Noah and Treck (complete with cheesy stilted dialogue that doesn't fit either character) before having one or both die in a tragic ice fishing accident. Bonus points if a jealous Fir sabotages their boat.

[Galenforcer]

Fanfiction makes me hurl. Most of them are just shipping, self-inserts or cross-overs. But they are interesting to point and laugh at.

[Anacybele]

Fanfiction makes me hurl. Most of them are just shipping, self-inserts or cross-overs. But they are interesting to point and laugh at.

...I've seen plenty of fanfiction that doesn't fall into any of those categories.

[Chalis]

I honestly hate when people complain that an existing character is OoC. This is fine if the author is trying to strictly stick to canon, but haven't people ever heard of What-If stories? These are stories that change characters or settings or something to ask the readers "What if so-and-so was like this instead of like that?" It's just a fun little way to answer such questions and can be quite entertaining. For example, I know someone on DA who wants to write an FE fic asking "What if Soren was raised by his father as the Daein prince?" I dislike Soren, but this would be an interesting read, I bet.

AU is a tricky thing. Good writers will try to respect the character and incorporate their general overall feel, even if just loosely, while still having a noticeable change. They can also use OOC as dramatic irony or a plot element or a number of things. My issue with OOC is usually found in shipping where some situations really cause me to make a leap of faith without any build up beforehand. Obviously a lot of things can factor in as well, it's hard to make a generalization without exceptions.

lol but what do i know, i haven't written in years

[Anacybele]

No, no, you're right, actually. I should know, I wrote an AU IkexElincia short story awhile back. It asked "What if Ike didn't leave Tellius and married Elincia and became her Prince Consort instead?" I did try to keep the characters in-character, I just basically changed Ike's ending for RD. Ike still dislikes some noble customs and all, he's just putting up with them for Elincia's sake. He also still does mercenary work with the Greil Mercenaries on the side.

[Anouleth]

If I wrote Fire Emblem fan fiction I would probably do something deliberately stupid to compensate for my lack of writing ability. Like, I would write an uncomfortable romance between Noah and Treck

I would read a romance between Noah and Treck.

[Parrhesia]

Also, yeah Furetchen should tone it down a lot. Criticism isn't supposed to be mean or discouraging. It's supposed to be helpful and encouraging and perhaps even show that the author has potential.

But sometimes authors DON'T have potential! Have you SEEN Fire Emblem Versus?

Of late I have a tendency to only attack dead fics, anyway.

[Sunwoo]

I'm going to respond before I read any of the other replies here, so here goes.

I've actually been writing for a pretty long time, since I was seven. Although I don't think I started writing FANfiction until I was ten or so. (DBZ of all things, ha.) I'm really mixed on what to think about fanfiction. There is a lot of it that is crud, filled with Mary Sue/Gary Stuish OCs, OOC-ness of existing characters, or dumb stuff like die for our ship. But there are a few really GOOD ones that are long epics, or even one-shots or short chapter stories that are a pleasure to read. I say, as a whole, fanfiction can be something you like or hate. It really depends on what you prefer.

While I don't write so much fanfiction anymore, it's more because of lack of time and moving onto original stories. But I find that writing fanfiction helps me with some elements in writing original stories. Like keeping the reader engaged. Practice keeping characters IC. And so on. I think that for any person who wants to be a writer, fanfiction is a good place to start, to get the hang of writing. (Of course, you have to make sure you have proper criticism to help you EVOLVE. I had some troubles trying to get people to review me seriously at times.)

[Loki Laufeyson]

I am no fan of fanfiction. Because most of it is shipping or twisting canon around in order to get the OTP or some outcome (usually romantic) that wasnt present in the canon. If there is an original character placed in the fanfic, its usually a Mary Sue of some sort that seems to have a leg up on everything thats happening. It gets lame and really painful to read. However, i do like the concept of fanfiction that takes canon characters that werent POV characters or were major characters and giving them their take on the events in canon. For some reason, this kind of fanfic is hella rare and i dont get why. Maybe people find it easier to make a Sue but not write about a canon character? No idea.

In any fandom, youre gonna find fics about shipping. Whether its Zelda, Doctor Who, Star Wars, or FE. Shipping is kinda fun but i dont understand why people tend to get really obsessed over it. "OH HARRY POTTER SHOULD BE WITH HERMIONE! GINNY IS A WHORE!" and actually making Ron a bad guy in order for their OTP to exist. I just...

IF a fic writer makes an FE fanfic that pairs Ike with Elincia but doesnt make guys like Geoffrey evil, they make that character a complete idiot. All the more to make Ike and Elincia's pairing more appealing. I dont get either. Because canon dictates that Geoffrey isnt a moron. Why make a character do or be something completely different from what they are? It would be like me writing a Song of Ice and Fire fic and pairing Sansa with the Hound but making the Hound be like, the nicest guy on the planet when canon says completely otherwise. It will break the reader's willing suspension of disbelief if they are familiar with the canon work.

Alternate universe fics tend to be fun to write. Or alternate scenario works. Example: FE fic where Lyn doesnt exist or Soren was raised in completely different circumstances. Because Lyn doesnt exist, Eliwood wouldnt meet Ninian until Dragon's Gate. And the story changes considerably. In the case of Soren, he may end up being written as a villain instead totally changing the Tellius story. These can be pretty interesting if written well. If they arent done well, they just seem like "well i didnt like the canon so im changing it in shitty ways!

Fanfiction is a queer beast and i find that im often better off not reading most of it.

[Rehab]

It's probably kinda pedantic to bring up something like the Divine Comedy, but I think it's worth a reminder that fanfiction/various fan byproducts take many forms. Something isn't automatically bad because it's set in an established universe, but as Chalis, Jon/Florina and all have brought up, it at least takes some consideration of the subject matter to avoid simply being brushed off.

Personally, I think it just depends on the actual writing and the writer's intentions. Wish-fulfillment writing on its own doesn't strike me as really harming anything, but unless it also serves some other purpose, its relevance to the rest of us is kinda limited by design.

Edited September 8, 2012 by Rehab

[eclipse]

Sometimes, I write fanfiction. Of late, it's usually tied to a playthrough (I'm gonna shamelessly plug my sig). I really liked FE11 because it gave me a few hints as to a person's character, but didn't flesh it out to the point where I felt restricted. Thus, I could write several different versions of the same person, each rooted in the little bit of truth that came out, and it would (usually) work. I am not certain if what I put out is considered "good", but I am amused enough by it.

That being said, I steer the hell away from serious romance. Writing a GOOD one requires a lot more skill than what I've got.

[Sunwoo]

I think people's opinions on fanfiction may also depend on what sites they've visited that have fanfiction. Something like fanfiction.net has a ton of crud and several good stories (but you have to look hard for the good stories, something not everyone wants to do). Fandom-specific sites generally may lean one way or another. Some of them may be filled with pairing stuff and OOC and stuff not actually related to the actual story line, while others may actually try to stick to canon.

[Iris]

Hi Rey~! Well, you're right, 90% of everything is crap, and this is so very true with regards to fanfiction. I've been reading fanfiction since I was... 9, maybe? I've gotten very good at finding the good out of the bad. Had I not ever read good fanfiction, I'd probably have a very low opinion on it, too.

Two words: "Rabid fangirls".

And rabid fanboys. Though not as prevalent, they still write just as bad. For the most part, I refuse to read anything with OCs, unless they OCs are not the focus of the story/supported with canon character. It depends, really. Some OCs are funny. I have a lot of "DO NOTS", like OOC, but I enjoy some AU, though it really depends.

It's like the spriting section. It's what turns me off. They're refusing to recognize the flaws in their work... even if he spent his time tearing it apart piece by piece. If you can get past the hostility, you'd realize that "piece by piece" part is important. He tore apart the flaws in the details, which you can then address. He didn't just bash it, he bashed the crucial cracks that you're refusing to see.

People who don't wish to see aren't worth the time. Just ignore them. If they don't want to improve their writing, then fine. I've seen writers who openly ask for flames, and other assorted criticisms to help their writing. And sometimes... there are people who just suck at writing, but um, yeah.

(1) Where you read from. fanfiction.net is probably the most popular place, and therefore, has the most bad fanfictions. This doesn't discourage me from using it, though, since as I mentioned earlier, my ability to find good fanfiction out of almost anywhere. Anyways, AO3 has generally good fanfiction (but I'm afraid that soon others will make this not true ;__;)

Okay, so now that this stupid wall of text is finished... can anyone help me?

For starters, Shimizu Hitomi. One of my favorite fanfiction writers of FE fandom of all time. I showed Lux (probably not a good reference, but um), and he basically bawled. But um, White Storks at Dawn (Isadora centric) and Through a Glass Darkly (Nyna and Camus lol) are good. read at 1/2 page, tightened spaces, verndana size 10 font

Edited September 8, 2012 by Iris

[Anacybele]

In any fandom, youre gonna find fics about shipping. Whether its Zelda, Doctor Who, Star Wars, or FE. Shipping is kinda fun but i dont understand why people tend to get really obsessed over it. "OH HARRY POTTER SHOULD BE WITH HERMIONE! GINNY IS A WHORE!" and actually making Ron a bad guy in order for their OTP to exist. I just...

If it makes you feel better, Florina, I actually prefer Harry with Ginny and Ron with Hermione. And I'm not even a big Harry Potter fan.

IF a fic writer makes an FE fanfic that pairs Ike with Elincia but doesnt make guys like Geoffrey evil, they make that character a complete idiot. All the more to make Ike and Elincia's pairing more appealing. I dont get either. Because canon dictates that Geoffrey isnt a moron. Why make a character do or be something completely different from what they are? It would be like me writing a Song of Ice and Fire fic and pairing Sansa with the Hound but making the Hound be like, the nicest guy on the planet when canon says completely otherwise. It will break the reader's willing suspension of disbelief if they are familiar with the canon work.

I agree with this. I hate when people write their OTPs this way too. This is why when I write IkexElincia, I do my best to keep Geoffrey in-character (or at least what I believe to be in-character for him) and not evil or anything stupid like that. Granted, there were a few complaints about his behavior in Knight in Shining Armor where he went mentally insane because of depression and other issues, but this kind of thing can happen to anyone (I made it happen to Geoffrey because I believe he could be prone to mental issues). And Geoffrey wasn't being evil (despite seeming like it), he was mentally messed up. But he recovered and is back to his old self. He even found himself a girl. He's a noble, chivalrous knight again and has pretty much completely gotten over his old issues.

I also have written Geoffrey as having his mind all mixed up between his old feelings for Elincia and other stuff that's going on, and he ends up saying the wrong things because of it. But I'm in no way making him an idiot or evil or something stupid. He's confused and frustrated with some things.

But he's also been made to look good in my writing to compensate for this. He eventually earns the nickname Dragon-Bane Delbray for some heroic acts, for example. And he goes to great lengths to rescue a pair of dear friends (Kieran and Marcia). He and Kieran also become two of the greatest generals in Crimean history.

So yeah, you are totally right, Florina.

[tenkiforecast]

Honestly, it always depends on where you are looking and what you're trying to find.

As for myself, I've had an idea about a story that is...very, very far away from the actual canon of the Elibe games. I dunno if I have ever mentioned it on the forums or not, basically the idea is that the peace set up at the end of FE6 falls apart with the revelation of Guinevere's children being illegitimate, via Roy. Discontent from teh war boils up, less understanding rulers in Etruria take power, and it collapses into a conquered state by Etruria. My whole idea for the story takes place about 200 years after the events of FE6, yes with a character kind of self-insert, with the initial inspiration seeing self-insert fics being mentioned favorably on tvtropes, and my response being "this is terrible, I could do a better job." Only difference is the insert character is drawn into the fray while more interesting ones move teh story forward. Heck, the only self-insert thing I would probably do is a meteorology aspect, even then it would boil down to "knows weather patterns due to being a sailor. Aka, you know the weather patterns or you die horribly at sea." Ask anyone who works on the ocean, they will testify to how true this statement is.

Or just search "Kamikaze" and skip the WWII stuff, weather patterns are the reason Japan still has its culture and language. Otherwise it may have been snuffed out by the Yuan dynasty.

That said, should I ever end up writing this, it could turn out to be crap. Remember Sturgeon's Law, 90% of any medium is crap. The 10% that is quality is always hard to find. I have found good fictions within the Persona series, but not much else. I don't look for shipping because no one knows how to write a good romance at this point in time, especially with that piece of garbage Twilight plaguing the media. However, a lot of stories are based on shipping. This is the reason to stay away from most of them.

I understand completely why people turn away from fanfiction. Part of it is the mountain of garbage out there, another is that expanding on another narrative seems lazy to some people. I don't necessarily agree with the last statement, but I understand it. It always varies from person to person.

[Dandragon]

To be perfectly honest, i've read a fanfic that has writing and plot that is on par with the writing of people like Rick Riordan or Anthony Horowitz.

Granted, it wasn't that much of an original concept:

The Backstory of Samus Aran

but its quite good.

http://deepwellbridge.wordpress.com/2010/09/02/fanfic-metroid-origins-prologue/

It may start out cheesy, but i implore you to read on.

It just goes to show not every single fanfic is utter shit

[Sunwoo]

A good writer, whether it's for fanfiction or not, needs to be able to write characters that s/he hates, dislikes, or has no interest in well. Otherwise the story will probably fail. And unfortunately, not everyone does that. I've read a ton of stories that - may - have been on the better end of fanfiction, but then they completely screwed up by misrepresenting or twisting the character of a "potential rival for a love interest".

This is why I hate so many Tact/Lyn stories. (And to a lesser extent, Kent/Lyn and Hector/Lyn stories.) There is absolutely no fucking need to turn Rath into a jerk to make your pairing work. :/

[Anacybele]

Seoyeon: Agreed. I hate Soren, but I haven't made him act like or do anything stupid or bad in the least bit (unless you count his fighting with Ranulf over who gets to be best man for Ike and Elincia's wedding, but that's just lolzy stuff). I even had him be the one to come up with the strategies used to retake a nation's enemy-conquered capital.