Shining Force 2 Mafia: Game Over

[Elieson]

For Clarity, I will share that a self visit can be viewed as Idling or not possessing an ability to target others, or that if there are no results to provide, one can interpret that I say nothing to go with it.

Edited February 23, 2013 by Elieson

[Xinnidy]

... :c

[BBM]

>_> That self-visit still doesn't make sense.

SB is scum and Marth probably is too, because Cop+Rolecop+Tracker/Watcher is just way too much IMO.

Blah sorry again guys, and sorry Cam. ._.

[charlie_]

What the fuck.

[eclipse]

HEY NEKO (and everyone else who hasn't figured it out yet):

readme.txt

Also requesting a scan on BBM, because while he's been proven to be the announcer, that doesn't say much about his alignment, and that hammer was terrible (like, less than halfway through the phase). You guys are free to scan me, if you really want to, but on the condition that you guys STFU about my role.

[NekoRex]

Wait no scorri is an idiot.

She's probably got the alignment of the person that Marth targetted n0' date=' whom was Mancer, whom was alligned with the Other Guys.

But still dis game. >.< [/quote'] I don't see how a comment like this proves anything. Have you claimed anything yet? Simply assuming scorri misspoke is highly questionable, especially considering the night result scorri mentioned was an ALIGNMENT COP REPORT and not a rolecop report.

[NekoRex]

Have you claimed anything yet?

I mean this in the way that I'm not sure if Eclipse actually did claim at some point and that's why people are reluctant to vote because he's believable or something

Anyway I still stand by assertion that the report is factual unless someone else is contradicting it.

[eclipse]

I'm gonna assume that RL is being a PITA, which is why you're asking that.

My stance on claiming

[NekoRex]

I'm gonna assume that RL is being a PITA, which is why you're asking that.

Excuse me?

My stance on claiming

Not claiming says jack shit about your alignment, though. There's three scum left in this game, assuming 12/4/4/1, and there's still a high chance we have a godfather in the mix.

Currently the only players I'm trusting as Town are Sho, Xinnidy, and probably Marth and Snike

Marth has been very helpful as a rolecop throughout the game, although he's un-copped and there's a multitude of info roles, so I can't be 100% sure.

Snike is a very believable Miller, and I think it's highly unlikely he's the last Other Guy since that wouldn't make sense.

That leaves Eclipse, BBM, Rein, and SB, and Flint

Of those, BBM can't be the last Other Guy due to the D1 shenanigans.

SB is cop cleared and Rolecopped, so unless we suspect he's the Godfather he's unlikely to be scum.

Flint is a dayvig, a risky scum role, hence unlikely to be town unless his goal is to gun down the Other Guys.

Rein is both unknown alignment and role

And according to scorri, Eclipse is one of the Other Guys, but apparently we're not lynching him yet for ??????????????????? reasons

[charlie_]

Rein WAS governor, Neko.

[BBM]

SB got Rolecopped? Either way, SB said that his original N1 target was Bal, but he got redirected AWAY from Bal. Our FLIPPED AND CONFIRMED TOWN TRACKER/WATCHER has SB visiting Bal. If SB is still town after that then I don't even know anymore.

Eclipse's caginess about her role makes me uncomfortable, because even if you're a role that's better off not outed, if claiming means that we can narrow down who the scum are, then that's much better than wasting a lynch on you to find out what we could from a claim. Unless claiming is going to cause you to spontaneously combust, claiming is better than not claiming, especially as we don't want to mislynch again.

I'd quite honestly be in favour of a full massclaim from everyone tomorrow, including Eclipse.

[Shinori]

Why didn't Blitz fire his day vig way back when we asked for it on day one? Weren't we just wanting Mancer to just be shot?

[NekoRex]

I'm pretty sure I recall Marth saying he rolecopped SB, but I could be wrong. If we think SB is the godfather, then we should go for it, I guess, but I still want to solve this riddle about Eclipse and why we aren't outright lynching her.

This game is long and confusing and my memory can only hold so much.

[eclipse]

Excuse me?

RL = Real Life

PITA = Pain in the ass

In other words, I get the sense that you're distracted by non-mafia stuffs, which might explain why you missed stuff like my outright refusal to claim. I'd think something like that would stick out, seeing as it goes directly against just about everything else so far.

Not claiming says jack shit about your alignment, though. There's three scum left in this game, assuming 12/4/4/1, and there's still a high chance we have a godfather in the mix.

Currently the only players I'm trusting as Town are Sho, Xinnidy, and probably Marth and Snike

Marth has been very helpful as a rolecop throughout the game, although he's un-copped and there's a multitude of info roles, so I can't be 100% sure.

Snike is a very believable Miller, and I think it's highly unlikely he's the last Other Guy since that wouldn't make sense.

That leaves Eclipse, BBM, Rein, and SB, and Flint

Of those, BBM can't be the last Other Guy due to the D1 shenanigans.

SB is cop cleared and Rolecopped, so unless we suspect he's the Godfather he's unlikely to be scum.

Flint is a dayvig, a risky scum role, hence unlikely to be town unless his goal is to gun down the Other Guys.

Rein is both unknown alignment and role

And according to scorri, Eclipse is one of the Other Guys, but apparently we're not lynching him yet for ??????????????????? reasons

1. I'm willing to believe that Marth is town for outing Mancer's role (who he probably wouldn't scan if he was his ally), and for outing the result that got Proto lynched. Either that, or that's the ballsiest bus I've ever seen, which doesn't really make sense.

2. Can BBM be a Mafia announcer?

3. I have a feeling that if Rein is anti-town, it's Other Guy. I covered why Governor and Mayor on the same scum side is horrible game design.

4. Why are you trusting a third party, and ignoring what Xinnidy said?

5. If you're gonna run under the assumption that there is a godfather, then me revealing my role is beyond pointless. In other words, if you don't trust me, then I am better off NOT revealing my role and being lynched, because then I can stop pointing out all the things that everyone ELSE is missing (I don't like repeating myself, but as long as I'm alive, I feel like I need to do so in order to help the town to win).

6. Put down post numbers and Important Stuffs in a Notepad file.

[Kriemhild]

loljanet

[NekoRex]

RL = Real Life

PITA = Pain in the ass

In other words, I get the sense that you're distracted by non-mafia stuffs, which might explain why you missed stuff like my outright refusal to claim. I'd think something like that would stick out, seeing as it goes directly against just about everything else so far.

I'm more put off by your assumption that I'm having real life troubles then by the acronyms. It's VERY rude to assume that.

1. I'm willing to believe that Marth is town for outing Mancer's role (who he probably wouldn't scan if he was his ally), and for outing the result that got Proto lynched. Either that, or that's the ballsiest bus I've ever seen, which doesn't really make sense.

2. Can BBM be a Mafia announcer?

3. I have a feeling that if Rein is anti-town, it's Other Guy. I covered why Governor and Mayor on the same scum side is horrible game design.

4. Why are you trusting a third party, and ignoring what Xinnidy said?

5. If you're gonna run under the assumption that there is a godfather, then me revealing my role is beyond pointless. In other words, if you don't trust me, then I am better off NOT revealing my role and being lynched, because then I can stop pointing out all the things that everyone ELSE is missing (I don't like repeating myself, but as long as I'm alive, I feel like I need to do so in order to help the town to win).

6. Put down post numbers and Important Stuffs in a Notepad file.

1. Yeah, I can agree that Marth is very townie, although it's still a little hard to believe there's this many info roles as Town.

2. Yes, I didn't discount that option (it was simply left unsaid)

3. I can agree with that.

4. Xinnidy didn't say anything factual. Scorri provided actual information she purported to have found. Also, scorri has no motive to lie.

5. Cool. I still think a scan on you as scum means we need to lynch you ASAP.

6. I write posts in Notepad when I'm rereading, I guess that's a good idea though?

[NekoRex]

I'm going to repeat this again:

Scorri's note that Sho's N0 result (eclipse) is an ALIGNMENT COP REPORT. It's not possible for it to have been a result Marth could have received.

[Prims]

6. I write posts in Notepad when I'm rereading, I guess that's a good idea though?

alternately, use a thoughts quicktopic

[BBM]

1) There's no proof Marth actually scanned Mancer. Mancer was also going to get lynched at that point anyways, it wasn't much of a bus. Or he could also be Mafia and not even aligned with Mancer, and he jumped to get townie points there.

2) Marth never outed the info that got Proto lynched- that was Sho. Think about it- Proto's role was Networker, which isn't an auto-scum role. How could a Rolecop report on Proto have led to his lynch?

3) Marth has outed exactly zero information that was the driving cause behind a lynch. He's cleared a few people, yes. That's it.

4) So many info roles, really?

[eclipse]

I'm more put off by your assumption that I'm having real life troubles then by the acronyms. It's VERY rude to assume that.

I think it's more polite to assume that's the reason why you're playing the way you are, because given your role, you're most likely not motivated by mislynches. Otherwise, I can't explain the logical disconnect I see without going into territory that I think falls outside of the scope of the game.

1. Yeah, I can agree that Marth is very townie, although it's still a little hard to believe there's this many info roles as Town.

2. Yes, I didn't discount that option (it was simply left unsaid)

3. I can agree with that.

4. Xinnidy didn't say anything factual. Scorri provided actual information she purported to have found. Also, scorri has no motive to lie.

5. Cool. I still think a scan on you as scum means we need to lynch you ASAP.

6. I write posts in Notepad when I'm rereading, I guess that's a good idea though?

1-3. No issues, though I can understand where the mistrust of Marth comes from. (addressed somewhere at the bottom)

4. I'll get to this after the rest of the list.

5. Gets lumped into (4).

6. Here's a sample entry: "Post 49 - Rein subbed in for Boron, per Elieson". You can vary the format so stuff like contradictions show up ("Post N - Eclipse votes for Psych. Post P - Eclipse vigorously defends Psych as town against other votes, while keeping her own vote on Psych.")

---

For the cop thing that people seem to be stuck on (apparently I need to spell things out):

I'm gonna go way back to Day 2. I will be linking stuff because nested quotes don't show, and even if I can get to the code to get said nested quotes, that's mod abuse.

Marth after being hit by scorri. Notice how he doesn't have a result?

Now, back to Day 1. Sho, after being hit by scorri. Again, no result.

By comparing both results, I concluded that when people lose their roles, they don't get a result. In other words, it was impossible for Sho to get a supposed result on me on N0, because he lost his role during the night. However, that doesn't explain what scorri meant. For that, we need to read further, and I guess I need to explain how the roles work together.

We jump to Day 3, when Sho/Marth are no longer vanilla. Read what Marth says, carefully.

12 hours and 20 minutes later, Sho reveals who he scanned.

That's far more results than expected, even when factoring in the claimed dual scans (for example, Sho is showing three results).

Is this part of their role negated by being vanilla? Not if Marth is telling the truth.

This is Shinori's theory:

Here, because in-line links are cool beans. Now, combine that with what Marth claimed to scan N0 (Mancer), and Mancer's alignment, along with everything else that I pointed out, and I think Xinnidy got it right - scorri received MARTH'S N0 target's alignment, and outed that. Furthermore, if you go back and match results, you'll see that Proto comes out as a Mafia Networker (or whatever his role is called), and SB/Shinori scan as Town Stuffs (and if my theory on SB is correct, and he did target me N4, then I doubt that he's mafia).

If this still isn't clear, I want to see something more conclusive than "scorri said so, and I'm not going to post a more detailed analysis". Since we're dealing with claimed night results, I expect cold, emotionless logic applied to said night results.

(BBM, I see that, and that's probably one of the better cases against Marth, IMO, and the second-strongest case against Marth is this, which is a direct contradiction to how I understand their roles to work together)

[eclipse]

Wow I suck at reading. Sorry, BBM.

If Marth didn't scan Mancer, then how would he know that Mancer was the Roleblocker? I can go off on this, but I think an answer to this question would be cool.

[BBM]

If he was Mancer's scumbuddy and trying to get townie points by bussing him. Really, this goes back to the point people had against him ED2- why on earth would you claim Rolecop to bury someone who was basically a dead man walking at that point?

[eclipse]

If he was Mancer's scumbuddy and trying to get townie points by bussing him. Really, this goes back to the point people had against him ED2- why on earth would you claim Rolecop to bury someone who was basically a dead man walking at that point?

Neko's point against me is that I'm part of the Other Guys based on scorri's word. For this bus to work, Marth would have to be part of the Other Guys. Either the teams would be extremely lopsided (Marth being part of the Other Guys makes that count four, and if you take Neko's assumption as fact, that would make me five), OR I'm clear. However, it still doesn't explain Sho's result. If Marth isn't town, he's most likely allied with Kay/Proto; that way, he'd get the role cop result on Mancer, Sho would get Mancer's alignment, and you'd still be right about Marth not being town.

[Snike]

I'd like a mod clarification - would the role pm of someone who was hit by Lemon display the Vanilla flavor crossed out if it was restored before death? If so, has a mod error been made with regards to Balcerzak's flip?

^This should settle the legitimacy of scorri's info dump but maybe not the NNR Vs Eclipse argument, though if it is accurate one of SB or eclipse is automatically clear due to rolespec.

In other news, I think Shinori needs to be lynched tomorrow due to the fact that his Bomb modifier isn't listed in his role claim, unlike my Miller modifier and scorri's Deathproof modifier, to name a few roles.

[BBM]

Marth probably is a Rolecop. It's his alignment that's in question.

I see what you're saying about Scorri's word not being decisive. I just don't understand your refusal to claim. Yeah, some roles are better off not outed. But at this stage, unless there's a restriction that would make you die if you claimed, I can't think of a reason not to claim. It helps us narrow down the scum, and your claim is more helpful to the town than getting your role after mislynching you would be, if you were town.