The Lunatic Club

[Legault!]

Behold, I am the scrubbiest of the scrubs in this club.

For I am going to grind and celebrate in a pub.

After which I will wash away all my tears of the pain in a washtub.

I'm not going to beat Lunatic+ legit, and I'm not ashamed... just like a common shrub.

Might be time to bite the bullet and get some Renown / DLC items. Just one half-decent lance + Frederick can deal with Masked Marth handily.

EDIT: Watched the video, guess you beat it just fine. Where did you get all those fancy items from?

Edited March 20, 2013 by Legault!

[shadykid]

Anna demands her payments

you know RNG blessings don't come for free right

[Othin]

Great point. Maybe Othin should consider using that if he wants to fling hilarious insults around in the future.

Hah, of course it's so much easier for you to get called out in private. But that's not how we do things here. You make ridiculous claims publicly, you get them straightened out publicly to ensure that none of your misinformation spreads.

[Legault!]

Hah, of course it's so much easier for you to get called out in private. But that's not how we do things here. You make ridiculous claims publicly, you get them straightened out publicly to ensure that none of your misinformation spreads.

Admittedly, you did straighten me out with those comments filled with evidence and argument and not in any way comprised of ad hominems.

Another nice thing about people insulting one another publicly is that reputations form and you know what you're getting with certain users. I've found it comes in handy.

EDIT: Weren't you the one who claimed Lunatic+ didn't require force resets until Chapter 7? This is an honest question because teasing each other, while fun, isn't very productive. If you have strategies to get through 2 and 3 where half the enemies are packing Counter, I'd love to hear them.

Edited March 20, 2013 by Legault!

[Paperblade]

He's not going to answer you, he's just going to act smug and superior like he did when everyone else called it bullshit.

[Othin]

I can't say I've played those chapters recently enough to speak reliably about them in any form right now. This, of course, includes meaning I cannot verify my earlier statements one way or the other. Feel free to consider them withdrawn for the time being.

[Interceptor]

Which units are you using? What are their levels and stats? What general strategies are you employing? I'm curious if you're doing something really impressive or if the rest of us are just looking at things the wrong way and exaggerating problems.

I am not doing anything special, just standing on the shoulders of giants and taking advantage of the knowledge gleaned from the people that came before me. I'll outline what I've done, and you can tell me if there's a perception problem.

Currently I am up to Ch21 (aka Mire Madness). My very best units are Avatar, Morgan, Lucina, Panne, and Nowi. Any of these badasses can grab a Pair-up partner and go to town at any given moment (double everything, never die, and have a high ORKO percentage). Three of those units have Veteran, which is not an accident. My second-stringers are Chrom, Frederick (both used to be primaries, until enemy stats eventually outpaced them), Gregor, and (now) Tiki. They have some limited combat ability, but aren't high ORKO threats and I have to use them carefully/deliberately. I made an error training Lissa ahead of someone like Libra or Anna; currently she's combat-worthless but exists in a "break glass in case of need for Fortify" role.

My general strategy for the mode has been to complete the maps in front of me whilst availing myself of training opportunities during the process. Avatar was trained first to give me a solid base to work with, then I added Chrom and Fred, then Panne, then Nowi and Gregor, then Lucina, then Morgan, and now I'm about to work on Tiki. I am always force-feeding someone kills at any given time, especially if the map has forts. I use Tonics religiously when they help (I have a stack of four of each right now), forge when necessary, and don't hesitate to throw a bunch of perma stat boosters on someone if they need an edge (Robe + Wing on Nowi, Talisman on Panne, Dracos on Tiki, etc). I use a lot of Concoctions/Elixirs on people who have good Enemy Phases and don't need to use their turns to attack.

Current tactics are to send the Ylissean Wolfpack somewhere on their own (Chrom, Avatar, Lucina, Morgan), since they all have supports with each other and can easily swap Lead/Support positions as the situation dictates. FredxPanne have high mobility and flight for conquering whatever terrain obstacle exists, or for killing hard targets (since Panne hits like the fist of an angry god). NowixGregor go wherever they please, since Nowi counters/ORKOs almost everything, and takes zero damage even from some bosses. I'm am going to try to make Tiki a good unit in Ch21, since Manaketes are really strong. I have enough boosters to allow her to survive, a couple Energy Drops and a Wing for her offense, and Stone+ with her C Anna support also helps out considerably.

I completed all of the story Paralogues that were accessible, as soon as they were available. The only child Paralogues I did were Morgan and Yarne. I haven't touched Nah, although I suppose that's probably a really good map to train someone in, as it's full of level 7+ promoted units (three levels lower than Ch21).

Not using Spotpass, DLC, Skirmishes, Renown, and any bonus items I get from sparkle tiles are sold for cash monies. I'm not head-hunting Bosses for low turn counts (except recently, where I am not even bothering with treasure chests anymore), and sometimes I will let people die (Gaius, Libra, Donnel, Say'ri) because I am as cold-hearted as Marth. But I think that this is pretty standard play, all things considered.

Fun fact: Gregor hit A-rank Axes as Hero, even though he's never seen combat in the Lead unit role since he was a Mercenary. I could potentially pass Sol down to Nah, which might be hilarious.

[Elieson]

So, Enterig Ch6, no DLC/Skirmishes/Anna shopping.

Fred has finally gained another level. Chromatar are level 15 each (+Spd -Res iirc, Sangyul chose it for me), and show stopped ch5 with Falchion X Avatar pairUp doubling everything on the map.

Lissa and Donny had a bit of abuse (heal burns, in early chapters, and Archer abuse twice on Paralogue 1), and Vaike, LonQu and Kellam are rounding out my team. Sully, Stahl, Miriel and Virion are pretty Benched.

Ricken, I've used on Hard mode. His speed growth (fr me anyway), just was not up to snuff there to make him a long term unit. Maribelle though, I'll probably want a second Healer/Rescue Staff user.

Also, I accidentally hit Fight during y preliminary check of Ch4, and achieved victory with sully and Virion deployed, with no gear. Lol silly Lucina

Edit___--- I'm struggling to fit Sumia into my team. I really wanna make her work but her pitiful offensive capabilities are well, pitiful. The plethora of Axe users doesn't help her case either, and she's generally paired with Fred if Kellam isn't.

Edited March 20, 2013 by Elieson

[Interceptor]

Unless you really like klutz-pants Sumia, the Irritating Low-level Peg Knight, you might want to consider Cordelia instead.

She's higher level, has superior bases, better growths in stats that matter, and you'd be past the difficult early parts of the game where it can be a headache to train weak units. I have a soft spot in my heart for CordeliaxLon'qu, and he can sit on a mountain in her joining chapter and duel Wyverns all day long in Pair-Up bliss. Just saying.

[Elieson]

It's more like I have high hopes for adding Cynthia to my team (but then again with t likely being Fred X Cynthia, I dunno what it'll yield)

Then again my first Playthrough on Hard, I didn't use a single Child character, and did just fine. Cordelia impressed me quite so in that run, even though I favored Sumia

[Legault!]

Three of those units have Veteran, which is not an accident.

Ah. This might be part of the reason you're on cruise control: a "no-exploit" run to me means no Veteran; Veteran on MU alone breaks the game, much less his children. I played without it. (Look at how vague I am with my definitions Interceptor, no wonder I am incomprehensible.)

[Ike of Paris]

I started Lunatic +. I'm on the prologue. IT HURTS SO BAD. There are people who have two skills, which makes me want to call BS.

[Interceptor]

Ah. This might be part of the reason you're on cruise control: a "no-exploit" run to me means no Veteran; Veteran on MU alone breaks the game, much less his children. I played without it.

It's usually fascinating to see what people consider exploitive, but I suppose that there are exceptions to everything. An AvatarxChrom pairing has two Veteran users just in the default case; Lucina is the only one that requires activating a brain cell to swap around skill order. I personally don't even consider Nosferatanking to be exploitive; it's just tedious and boring. To each their own inverse scrub-rules.

In any case, the end result of shooting yourself in the foot for no particularly good reason, is to slow down the game and make non-Avatar units more important (although Avatar is obviously still really good). My tri-disaster hit squad didn't even exist until Ch14, which was ~7-8 chapters after the game stopped being difficult. Without a bunch of Veterans, I'd say that Frederick gets canned earlier in favor of a better growth unit, and I'd still employ the Nuclear Operational Walking Invader, for example. I left all four of the Cavs and Pegs on the table, too.

(Look at how vague I am with my definitions Interceptor, no wonder I am incomprehensible.)

Don't worry about it; I am fluent in all sorts of dialects, including (but not limited to): crybaby, Comic Book Guy, rager, etc. Your particular brand of Calvinball poses little to no difficulty whatsoever.

[Redwall]

I'd only consider Veteran exploitative if the developers had absolutely no clue what would result from it. Given that the enemy stats in lategame chapters are as high as they are, I suspect the developers calibrated the stats assuming a Veteran Avatar.

re: one of your earlier posts, Legault, I can (almost) confirm that a Lunatic playthrough prohibiting Veteran/Sol/Nosferatu/Rally Spectrum/grinding/Wi-Fi anything/skirmishes is possible. I'm on Ch 23 right now, and to my knowledge, the only stage where I had to deal with low-ish success rates was Ch 21, in which Tiki+Say'ri had to nail one of two possible Dual Attacks on a Sorceror (because they had a C support and were fast enough to double, the success rate of this was 1 - (1 - 0.44)^2 = 69%). I made the mistake of not using Nowi, but recruiting Tiki serves as a solution to the magic/bow problem that Panne has. And really, the bow/magic problem hasn't yet been that big a deal since I bring a Dancer plus four staff users to each level for Rescue/Physic uses on Panne, who can, at full HP, survive a single hit and then some from max-forged-anything, with the exception of this one Rexcalibur-wielding Sage in Ch 22. I initially anticipated that Ch 23 would be the toughest stage under my constraints, though, so we'll see what happens.

Edited March 20, 2013 by Redwall

[Quick]

I don't see why no grind/no Spotpass/no Nosferatu etc. is impossible. To me, it was the low hit rates for most of the game that made Lon'qu absolutely god-like for most of the game. I could just rely on Lon'qu wrecking everything until around chapter 20. Hardly used MU until around chapter 13, and only got to a level 15 Grandmaster by chapter 17.

Edited March 22, 2013 by Quick

[dondon151]

Ah. This might be part of the reason you're on cruise control: a "no-exploit" run to me means no Veteran; Veteran on MU alone breaks the game, much less his children. I played without it. (Look at how vague I am with my definitions Interceptor, no wonder I am incomprehensible.)

i don't understand your definition of "no-exploit" either; to me it seems like that it's analogous to having to play FE10 without haar, except haar is not an exploit.

[Interceptor]

i don't understand your definition of "no-exploit" either; to me it seems like that it's analogous to having to play FE10 without haar, except haar is not an exploit.

It's called a line in the sand, that happens to be precisely underneath the person that's observing it; coincidentally, of course. Anyone using more advantageous mechanics than you is an exploiting cheaterface, and people using fewer, are fools unworthy of your scorn.

As Carlin once said:

[spoiler=Idiots and Maniacs]

[Interceptor]

Update on my run, I added Tiki to my list of available badasses, something that took less effort and had greater returns than expected. She got limited potshot and fort training in Ch19 and Ch20, to improve her basics a bit while the MVPs killed Walhart. Then I went all-in for Paralogue 16 (Nah recruitment, level 7 promoted enemies), and buffed her with the following:

• Avatar Pair-Up (with Tiki as Lead, Avatar with an Iron Sword)
  
• One of every tonic except +MAG
  
• Seraph Robe
  
• Second Seal for the midpoint
  
• Big stack of Physics and a Rescue for Anna
  
• Elixir
  

...and proceeded to have Tiki kill everything in the chapter (Rescued Nah early to get that out of the way). A couple times this required some kiting for large groups, while Tiki built up her base statistics, but there was plenty of running room for that, and that's what Physics/Rescue/Elixir were for. Eventually, most things in the map couldn't really hurt her. Results:

          Lvl   HP  STR  MAG  SKL  SPD  LCK  DEF  RES
Base      20.00  49  23   14   20   22   24   20   17
Ch20      25.08  61  25   16   23   25   28   22   21
Now       17.85  80  40   24   32   34   45   34   35

Second Sealed her the moment that she hit level 30. About halfway through the chapter she started ORKO'ing without the need for Dual Attacks from Avatar. I never had to use the Dragonstone+, although I had it on hand just in case. Tiki is roughly Nowi's equal offensively (-1 STR, +1 SPD), but not defensively (-9 DEF, -7 RES, no class +DEF from Pair Up either). She will eventually match RES and come within 2 for DEF. Accomplished four things at once in Para16: fixing Anna's staff rank, building two support partners for Tiki, recruiting Nah, and making Tiki a badass (with +1 MV... thanks, Anna).

tl;dr Manaketes are

Edited March 21, 2013 by Interceptor

[HHS]

I'm nearing completion. I was delayed by the Skyrim DLC's and got Bioshock for the first time with my order of Infinite (based on Bioshock one I'm starting to think I wasted my cash but maybe infinite will be more my speed).

[Ike of Paris]

In what world is Lunatic+ doable? I am on Chapter 1 and I kind of never want to play again. I find that if an enemy gets two abilities, it's all over.

[shadowofchaos]

In what world is Lunatic+ doable? I am on Chapter 1 and I kind of never want to play again. I find that if an enemy gets two abilities, it's all over.

And then Chapter 3 comes along and starts giving them counter.

[Ike of Paris]

And then Chapter 3 comes along and starts giving them counter.

Like I said, how is this doable when 2/3 times Fred gets hit by a 40% chance with the hammer? I almost want to start over and do casual. DEAR GOD SOMEONE HELP.

[shadowofchaos]

Like I said, how is this doable when 2/3 times Fred gets hit by a 40% chance with the hammer? I almost want to start over and do casual. DEAR GOD SOMEONE HELP.

The fort with bronze sword doubled with Avatar.

The Hammer didn't have as high as a 40% IIRC with that situation.

Though you have to be lucky that the mercenary and the archers don't ALL have Luna+ to ruin your day with high accuracy damage hits.

[Ike of Paris]

The fort with bronze sword doubled with Avatar.

The Hammer didn't have as high as a 40% IIRC with that situation.

Though you have to be lucky that the mercenary and the archers don't ALL have Luna+ to ruin your day with high accuracy damage hits.

Hawkeye and Luna + just break my will. It is quite frustrating.

[shadowofchaos]

Hawkeye and Luna + just break my will. It is quite frustrating.

Take a break.

I take long ones. Which is why I'm only on Chapter 7 on my English copy and Chapter 5/Paralogue 1 on my Japanese copy.

Obviously, I started grinding a bit as soon as I got access to the DLC.

Playing it legit is to masochist... even for me.