PKL Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 (edited) What would be the best approach to a nerf to these ever-so-ridiculous weapons? Would making them unable to double balance them in relation to bows? The approach IS has taken with low mt worked a little, but theyre still extremely useful and can still ORKO due to pairups in FE13 and massive str units like Palla and Avatar in FE12... Edited May 14, 2013 by Peekayell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetiger39 Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 Hand axes, javelins and magic should not attack over obstacles while bows can. Archers would love to be indoors with this change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk King Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 (edited) Making them unable to double would be a good idea. Plus it would make sense. How can you throw the same weapon at someone twice? Does the enemy toss it back to you ? Bows should have 2-3 range and longbows 2-4 range. Maybe even more. Edited May 14, 2013 by Hawk King Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKL Posted May 14, 2013 Author Share Posted May 14, 2013 I don't think adding range to normal bows is a good idea. Remember that enemy archers are already good enough as it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 fe3 javelins were pretty shitty, i found myself never using them since it was impossible to double with them it definately makes them worse, but to the point of uselessness fe4 javelins were better, but still pretty bad. i think nerfing them just makes magic even more broken than it already is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 No doubling would help. So would making them unforgable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ema Skye Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 Give them next to no MT and little hit (like the FE13 Miniature Lance). Or have them break at range (if I were to throw a javelin, I doubt I'd want to trek across a battlefield to pick it up just to throw it again). This would also stop them from doubling too, I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 What would be the best approach to a nerf to these ever-so-ridiculous weapons? Would making them unable to double balance them in relation to bows? The approach IS has taken with low mt worked a little, but theyre still extremely useful and can still ORKO due to pairups in FE13 and massive str units like Palla and Avatar in FE12... Bold: Actually, that was done in FE3, since weight subtracted from speed in that game, and javelins had 20 weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icon of Sin Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 Making them unable to double would be a good idea. Plus it would make sense. How can you throw the same weapon at someone twice? Does the enemy toss it back to you ? Perhaps by having more than one with you. Javelins are usually lightly constructed so I'm guessing they break upon impact. I'd give them a different, lowered damage formula for melee hits. Maybe Str/2 + Mt instead of Str + Mt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 being unable to double would be the easiest method to balance them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 all making handaxes and javelins unable to double would do is make magic an even more superior 1-2 range option, especially in a game like fe13 with mounted magic users Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 (edited) magic users kind of suck in most games though it's really only a problem if magic users are mounted, but even that can be mitigated by giving them 1 less mov than paladins Edited May 14, 2013 by dondon151 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 all making handaxes and javelins unable to double would do is make magic an even more superior 1-2 range option, especially in a game like fe13 with mounted magic users Magic users tend to have poor durability, so they can't take on a whole squad of units on the EP (which is the main reason hand axe/javelins are considered unbalanced) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacLovin Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 THe only durable magic users I can remember are in fe4 gen 2 and fe7/8 and Saleh/Pent/Canas[maybe] and fe10!Soren. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darros Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 I guess it's a new game, but Tharja and Henry are kind of tanky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 THe only durable magic users I can remember are in fe4 gen 2 and fe7/8 and Saleh/Pent/Canas[maybe] and fe10!Soren. I'd argue none of these are particularly durable, and definitely not comparable to your better melee units. I mean, sure Saleh and Pent have higher defences than the squishy growth mages in their respective games (especially if they're not levelled up to 20/20) but their durabilty still poses an immediate problem if you decide to push them forward as you would a decently durable unit like Gerik or Lowen. Not sure about the gen 2 kids, what do you think? Sety and Nanna with Lex/Arden as father have ~60% growths in defence, and Sety will have a good enough base, but a def-boosting tome like Falaflame isn't even in your hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiki Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 FE4 and FE5 Levin!Sety can pretty much avoid everything the game throws at them. FE5 Sety to a less extreme extent, I guess, but he still has a ridiculous amount of durability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 Rishuel in TRS is probably the best example of a physically durable mage prior to FE13 that I can think of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSND Alter Dragon Boner Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 Wendell 22 HP 8 DEF 14 SPD seems pretty bulky to me, although he falls off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppy Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 I think the low Mt Method worked out fine but what i'd change is that i'd make each one be expensive and have low uses (around 10)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djeets Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 in some games, javelins can be strong (FE4) or not strong at all (fe 11) and the nerved accuracy seemed already do well in balancing (unless your unit had str and spd.. the javelins are but game-broker weapons.. How can you throw the same weapon at someone twice? Does the enemy toss it back to you ? magic, look at how the RD units throws javelin twice... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacLovin Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 GIve them horrible hit and a high wpn lvl ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSND Alter Dragon Boner Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 ^ A Rank 60 Hit 15 Uses Seems legit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 I think a string of changes would work best. Make them unable to Double simply for practicality purposes. In addition, balance classes by having movement speed and attack speed as seperate stats. Movement speed related to dodging, while attack speed works in relation to offensive doubling/being doubled. For example, Minimize Sage def caps but keep Dark Mage def caps a bit higher, while reverse for Movement Speeds, and have identical attack speeds since tomes = tomes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiki Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 Making them have one use each would by far be the most logical option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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