PKL Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 (edited) Bearclaw why. Those TCs are far from efficient... Edited May 28, 2013 by Peekayell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Bear Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 (edited) Bearclaw why. Those TCs are far from efficient... Chapter 4 is the only good one. I explained why anyway my entire team was massively screwed (Stahl is almost unusable) and I was going for every item. I was using vulneraries too often too get lower in P1 and I wanted the chests. Chapter 5 and on are showing me just how horrible things are when only 2 of your units are able to take 3 hits (Sully takes 5 and Donnel needs Kellam to survive 2) I could go lower but I'm not going to reset for level ups so I have to deal with higher turn-counts while my team needs to be played conservatively and use vulneraries like every turn... it's horrible when you have a level 10 Stahl who hasn't reached 10 defense. Edited May 28, 2013 by bearclaw13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie_ Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 I did Chapter 4 in 3 with infantry dudes training Donnel so :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKL Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 I don't consider 100% more turns than the minimum in Chapter 4 anything resembling good. Your TCs are x2 the minimum of all the chapters you said and then you went on about how Donnel's training wasnt that bad. It clearly is bad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Bear Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 I did Chapter 4 in 3 with infantry dudes training Donnel so :/ You were LTCing... this is efficiency there are differences. I don't consider 100% more turns than the minimum in Chapter 4 anything resembling good. Your TCs are x2 the minimum of all the chapters you said and then you went on about how Donnel's training wasnt that bad. It clearly is bad I couldn't have done better than 3 turns with my team in Chapter 4 I tried with Stahl, I even tried it with Frederick doing a few things, it wasn't happening at all. I sacrificed 1 turn to give Donnel EXP. That's not really bad at all. Also P1 in 6 turns is easy to do but none of my units could take the hits I would need them to and still get the chests. (P1 actually should have been 11 turns but Stahl missed the on EP and had to kill on turn 12). Also why is it that because you consider anything more than 2 turns to be bad on Chapter 4 it is? I consider 3 turns to be good because it means I don't have to somehow 1-round Knights and get 2-round Marth with ranged weaponry (unless I'm missing something there). That's never happened for me when I'm not LTCing and I've tried it a several times. Chapter 5 was me not being able to get the boss before the reinforcements came and doubled my turn-count (gave Donnel and Stahl levels but I still dislike it). I really don't understand why it's that big of a problem I've done lower turn-counts when training Donnel, I just didn't feel like looking around for magic points while I was playing through this time, more typical counts for me are like; P1; 9 turns (I like the chests. What can I say?), C4; 3 Turns, C5; 4 turns. This time through most units that aren't Sully can't 1-round or take 3 hits so I had to take several penalties in these maps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKL Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 I don't consider a 3 turn for Chapter 4 bad, but a 4 turn is double the minimum, which falls under my definition of turtling. Btw, you don't need much to 2 turn Chapter 4 reliably. Just lure Lucina down with Silver Lance Fred turn 1 and have Javelin + Str Tonic Sully!Fred finish her off from 2 range from the north then everything suicides on him in EP. If your Fred didn't proc str at all before it, just forge 1 MT on the javelin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Bear Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 (edited) I don't consider a 3 turn for Chapter 4 bad, but a 4 turn is double the minimum, which falls under my definition of turtling. Btw, you don't need much to 2 turn Chapter 4 reliably. Just lure Lucina down with Silver Lance Fred turn 1 and have Javelin + Str Tonic Sully!Fred finish her off from 2 range from the north then everything suicides on him in EP. If your Fred didn't proc str at all before it, just forge 1 MT on the javelin. I was using Sumia to lure but that could have worked. my main problem is that I hadn't even leveled Frederick and forging is more than I could afford (When you're pumping everyone with tonics and vulneraries you have no cash) although that is a good plan for when I do this in the future. Edited May 28, 2013 by bearclaw13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constable Reggie Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 (edited) So here's my numbers: Paralogue 1: 8 turns. Admittedly not the best, but I did get both chests. Virion's high chip damage was pretty useful against the wall archers and the two room barbarians, Donnel was relegated to getting the initial thief kill, and one leftover enemy. lololol@the idea of giving Donnel pocket Fred when he's still your best character by far Ch4: 3 turns. Didn't bother using Donnel, instead having Fred+Chrom going straight up to take out Marth and pals, and Virion, MU, Sully, and Vaike (no pairups) taking out the leftovers on the sides. Again, Virion's high damage was very useful here, whereas Donnel would have done nothing of use. Ch5: 3 turns, I don't see in any possible way that Donnel could be used here. I used Sully+MU to take care of the bottom 3, Fred+Sumia to take care of the group in the northwest, and Ricken, Lonqu!Vaike and Virion!Kellam to take care of the rest in the east. Virion was especially crucial in being able to ohko the cliff wyvern with Kellam, a str tonic, and a +1 forge on his bow. Yeah, there's no way to train Donnel efficiently. Virion, on the other hand, is totally usable. Also, I have to question how you got Stahl to level 8 by paralogue 1. Pretty farfetched when my Sully's sitting at level 5 after ch5. Edited May 28, 2013 by Constable Reggie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSND Alter Dragon Boner Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 CH4: 4 Turn CH5: 5 Turn Heh I feel bad <_< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 I don't consider a 3 turn for Chapter 4 bad, but a 4 turn is double the minimum, which falls under my definition of turtling. Btw, you don't need much to 2 turn Chapter 4 reliably. Just lure Lucina down with Silver Lance Fred turn 1 and have Javelin + Str Tonic Sully!Fred finish her off from 2 range from the north then everything suicides on him in EP. If your Fred didn't proc str at all before it, just forge 1 MT on the javelin. Whoa, STOP. I must be the goddess of turtles if I take something like five turns on it. I'd like to see how many TOTAL extra turns are accrued before getting on his case. Just because something can be beaten by ignoring half the units doesn't mean it's the best strategy (and not something I'd expect out of someone who's trying to train Donnel). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKL Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 Whoa, STOP. I must be the goddess of turtles if I take something like five turns on it. I'd like to see how many TOTAL extra turns are accrued before getting on his case. Just because something can be beaten by ignoring half the units doesn't mean it's the best strategy (and not something I'd expect out of someone who's trying to train Donnel). Well, so far, Donnel has costed a ton of turns (and more likely than not: reliability), so it IS inefficient to train him. That's what I'm trying to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randa Posted May 29, 2013 Author Share Posted May 29, 2013 Scores without bias Virion: 2.62 Miriel: 5.35 Lisaa : 5.41 Vaike: 7.18 Frederick: 7.23 Chrom: 7.98 Stahl: 8.2 Sully: 8.28 Male MU:9.88 Female MU:9.9 Scores with bias Virion: 2.94 Miriel: 5.26 Lisaa 5.56 frederick:7.23 Vaike: 7.5 Chrom: 7.91 Sully: 8.14 Stahl 8.43 Male MU:9.53 Female MU:9.8 How is Miriel who is allegedly top tier worse than Lisaa and vaike? Also love the fact that vaike is as good as Frederick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Bear Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 Miriel sucks. Also the reason for Vaike = Fred is because people hate pre-promotes. I have personal qualms with using him and don't like his effect on my team but that's the main reason people ranked him low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZemZem Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 Frederick is better than people gave him credit for. He should AT LEAST have an 8.5, IMO. Miriel's position is perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadykid Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 (edited) words would you look at that, +9 turns from trying to use Donnel in 3 chapters (not to mention using Virion isn't exactly efficient in itself) Edited May 29, 2013 by shadykid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk King Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Well Donnel is tomorrow. Im calling it right now. His average score will be somewhere between 4 and 6, and 95% of votes for him will be 8-10 or 0-2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ema Skye Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Funny how you forgot Kellam ;> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadykid Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Well Donnel is tomorrow. Im calling it right now. His average score will be somewhere between 4 and 6, and 95% of votes for him will be 8-10 or 0-2. good thing this isn't gamefaqs or something, otherwise it'd be 10s everywhere dat bimodal score distribution Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LunaSaint Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Sad I missed Frederick's, he deserved a better score than he god. I'm quite happy with how most of these are turning out so far, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randa Posted May 30, 2013 Author Share Posted May 30, 2013 (edited) Funny how you forgot Kellam ;>I did not he will be tommorow. Technically you recruit sumia before turn one of chapter three which is the earliest that you can recruit Kellam so.So on the person who gavem sumia a one how does she have bad bases and need excessive grinding. I mean she's not donnel. Edited May 30, 2013 by Randa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZemZem Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Funny how you forgot Kellam ;> I lol'd. As for Donnel, I might give him a 0/10. +.5 bias because he's an awesome country bumpkin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadykid Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 even when Donnel passes Mercenary+Pegasus Knight down, he still manages to give pretty lame modifiers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiki Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 (edited) Guys this conversation is done next person to talk about it here will receive a warn point. You want to talk about the score we have the thread. Is he an undercover mod or something? Edited May 30, 2013 by Chiki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Bear Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 (edited) Is he an undercover mod or something? Someone didn't read the rules... he can stop counting your votes if you get 3 warn points. Which he, or a mod, can give. Edited May 30, 2013 by bearclaw13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randa Posted May 30, 2013 Author Share Posted May 30, 2013 (edited) No I couldn't think of a better word in day zero so that's what I got. Edited May 30, 2013 by Randa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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