It's Time To Duel!!!! Mafia [Game Over]

[Zkirsche]

Actually Randa should really vote someone that isn't busy and comment on actual stuff rather than gamespec.

@Randa: Thoughts on Vhaltz vs the world, my opinion on SB, Prims' case on me etc? I see you reading there :p

[Randa]

Sorry I'm still trying to catch up on the day while forming opinions. For now I have three bullets of note. I have a small scum read on Vhaltz. I'm very cautious of Prims. And I'm looking more into Kay.

Also I wouldn't be suprised to see mayor in the setup so I'm gonna ask of votals from a mod.

[Randa]

##Unvot

I feel like SB is in the same situation as me where there aren't a lot of post of all of them lack deep content. But it could be the same reason as me and being offline when everything happened. Also looking back I still would be willing to tell people what cards I played, but I do see why others disagree. However I don't think that having the idea in and of itself is scummy. And again I'm still not in favor of voting because of unmemorability after 24 hours. I don't completely agree with Kirsche vote on SB but I don't disagree. More of a null read than a scum read. And not a town read.

Vhaltz has a lot of post with a lot of words and not a lot of it really strikes me as useful. Seems like an attempt to protect themselves by shoving the attention of on others. Minor scum read here.

Prims: Everything said about SB, except the card idea, can be said about Prims. However in his most recent post he does make a decent point about Eurykins and Kirsche. The only reason people think he is more memorable than SB is that he had an early wagon against him. Null read that's closer to scum than SB. Not a town read ATM.

Kay: Very few post. Doesn't bring anything new to the Vhaltz discussion. Doesn't really back up his vote on Vhaltz. Looking at his ISO he gives bad Self-Meta as a reason to vote Vhaltz and not Poet who he expressed doubts about in the same post. My largest scum Read at the moment so ##Vote: Kay

[Eurykins]

##Vote: Eurykins

I think Eury is scummy for posting a huge defense of somebody without proposing any alternative. I initially thought she was unvoting because she was gonna make a follow-up post but now I realize she was just waiting for other people to do things which makes her post really unimpressive. Too easy to white-knight a large wagon and town should be focused on finding scum, not shooting down other people's scumhunting. If she really found it reasonable to defend Vhaltz as town I'm not sure why she wouldn't look into anybody else who was drawing attention at the same time.

Uh yeah. At the time that I was posting, there was pretty much only a LET'S FOCUS ON VHALTZ/LET'S START A VHALTZ WAGON that really stuck out to me at all, honestly. People were getting either stupid nitpicky over his posts, or otherwise going off on what I saw to be silly misreps of his reactions/logics. In addition, by commenting on how people seemed fairly intent on bulldozing one person as opposed to observing/commenting on multiple people, I heavily implied that the progress of the thread as a whole was lacking. AKA. was sorta "Hinthintnudgenudgekickkick Wtf are you guys even doing?" in my post towards the rest of you. And technically I did also give my thoughts regarding SB's terrible idea, but that's another side note.

**Also, as stated in my post, I was dealing with ranked game grinding in League, which I did 'til about 1am my time. So yeah- unimpressive ED1 content that comprised of narrowed vision on Vhaltz, combined with lackluster content as a whole, made for me having few thoughts regarding everyone else in the thread.

And as a side note: I never object to a wagon/case unless I honestly feel like the wagoning idea/reasonings behind it are flimsy or kinda stupid, and even then, I'm not staging a "White knight" shinanegans. That's just a waste of my time, and breath, imo- all I said was my simple thoughts and opinions on his case.

[Eurykins]

**Oh, yay, ISO's~! Thanks Kirsche. :D

Minor thoughts so far:
- Kirsche: Obv. town for posting up ISO's to make it easier for me to dig through people! (Realtalk: No real issues with him atm. Null leaning town.)

- Randa: Aside from me disagreeing with the notion of deck/card speculation idea, not seeing a whole lot I dislike. Null.

- Bearclaw: Little to no actual content. Unable to read.

- Psyche: See Bearclaw.

- Green Poet: [urlhttp://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=46734&page=6#entry2988139]This[/url] post/vote feels too easy and the vote itself seemed to be offered as a sort of appeasement for not doing so earlier. Slightly dirty, imo.

- Shinori: Barely ahead of Bearclaw group in terms of content, but otherwise nothing really worth noting. Null.

- SB: Only memorable thing/notion was the terribad idea of revealing/telling of all cards/decks used/chosen. Seems reckless for a townie to suggest, imo; a bit dirty atm for it.

- Vhaltz: Already stated my thoughts on him. See previous post.

- NekoRex: See Bearclaw.

- BBM: One of the people that seemed overly focused on Vhaltz, imo. Seems less progress-driven as town!BBM, so seems a bit questionable atm.

- Kay: No issues with her posting so far. Null.

- Prims: seems like Prims. Nothing weird coming from him so far.

- Scorri: Her posting tone doesn't seem bad, but it intruigues me that her posts have still mostly been about Vhaltz than anyone else.

Priorities currently:

SB > Green Poet > BBM > Everyone else.

PS. It kiiiiiiiiiiinda gets hard to read people when a lot of their posting is catered to the ezpz Vhaltz wagon that started up earlier. Just sayin'. As much as people may have posted "X, give reads on ____? (insert other player name here)", the majority of the ISO's read were basically just about Vhaltz. Case or not- if there is one, cool! Keep it in mind while you scum hunt amongst the rest, and maybe keep your votes there if you really think he deserves it. But don't keep clogging the thread over one person and not expand on others, yo.

##Vote SB

[Eurykins]

[Oops. I'm so good with the formatting in the link, lol... OH WELL. Link still works just fine.]

[Elieson]

ISOs added to the OP.

Votals, ehhhh they're coming. If anyone wants to do them for me, I can confirm them. Hard enough on my phone to handle these ISOs.

[Randa]

Are these accurate.

Mango Sentinel: 0

3-13 Garland:0

Randa: 0

Kirsche:0

dragonfang13:0

Psych:0

Green Poet: 0

Eurykins: 2

Shinori: 0

Prims: 1

scorri:0

SB: 1

Vhaltz: 5

NekoRex:1

BBM: 1

Kay:2

Not voting 6

[SB.]

how does half of this post matter 24 hours into day 1 when nobody was even talking about the players you called town or OK. I feel like this is some form of reverse active lurking where even though there's content Vhaltz is scummy as fuck because town doesn't waste people's time like this. Walls are anti-town, I'm not even joking.

what even is this post. It's not like people can't spend 5 minutes or something to read the thing, so how does it make him scum?

Green's suspicion of Vhaltz (enough to vote after Kay told him to) is kind of odd considering he doesn't fully understand the reason he's being voted by a bunch of people? I mean it's not scummy, but I find it really weird? Who else is scum, btw. You haven't actually said anything on anyone else and the rest of your content is reporting rather than scumhunting.

On the subject of Green, Eury: what was he supposed to do after Kay told him he should've voted? Refuse? You're pushing him as scum for response that he can't be blamed for at all. Also your main suspicion being based on them saying something you disagree with rather than finding scummy is really weak. I also find the BBM suspicion questionable, it's kind of like RD's associative reads content from last game where he analysed Rajam's voters as if he was town.

kirsche's "no content" vote on me is lol for a D1 suspicion, especially considering I haven't actually been able to post for most of it and other people still have similar levels of content to me. Why are bad ideas scummy anyway (especially when other people agreed with it?) I also don't understand how I avoided contributing either.

scorri should give solid opinions soon too. I don't think the way she's going about things is scummy at this stage but I'd be worried if it stayed like this for a while.

I'm sort of waffling on Vhaltz right now. His posts are still bad but they read kind of genuine so I don't know.

##Unvote

##Vote: Eurykins

[Kaoz]

Vhaltz (4): Shinori, BBM, Kay, Green Poet, SB, kirsche, Prims

Eurykins (3): Mango Sentinel, Prims, SB, Prims, Randa

SB (2): kirsche, Eurykins, Prims, Randa

Kay (2): Vhaltz, Randa

Prims (1): dragonfang13, Vhaltz, BBM, SB, Shinori

BBM (1): scorri

NekoRex (0): Mango Sentinel, Prims, Randa

MangoSentinel (0): Eurykins

Shinori (0): Kay, Vhaltz

scorri (0): kirsche, Vhaltz

Not Voting (3): 3-13 Garland, Psych, NekoRex

These should be correct I think. And I believe you have about 35 hours and 40 minutes left.

[Zkirsche]

kirsche's "no content" vote on me is lol for a D1 suspicion

I'm not voting you for no content I'm voting you for having unmemorable content. You practically lurked in the Vhaltz discussion for example, it felt as if you were pining for the lynch but only in the background, which is what I meant by avoiding contribution. If you've been busy then I guess it's ok. That post was good. ##Unvote

Why are bad ideas scummy anyway

Bad ideas are scummy because it's someone trying to push someone in the wrong direction. Bad ideas come from town, so it's not a reason to lynch someone by itself, but combined with other things it's easy to argue that the motive is to lead town astray.

I saw to be silly misreps of his reactions/logics

How do you think people were misrepping him and do you think those people are scummy?

I heavily implied that the progress of the thread as a whole was lacking. AKA. was sorta "Hinthintnudgenudgekickkick Wtf are you guys even doing?" in my post towards the rest of you.

Why did you not try to take this thread in another direction then instead of unvoting and going "I'll think about stuff more". If you thought someone was being misrepped by others, why didn't you pressure one of the misrepping parties? Playing league is not an excuse.

BBM: One of the people that seemed overly focused on Vhaltz, imo. Seems less progress-driven as town!BBM, so seems a bit questionable atm.

He's made 2 posts in total wrt Vhaltz, whereas I've argued against him and defended my opinion fiercely. If anyone is overly focused on Vhaltz it is me. Also, this seems a bit contradictory regardless as before these two posts most of your actual content has been on Vhaltz, except you haven't been scumhunting you were just defending him.

- SB: Only memorable thing/notion was the terribad idea of revealing/telling of all cards/decks used/chosen. Seems reckless for a townie to suggest, imo; a bit dirty atm for it.

Why is suggesting a bad idea worse than making an easy vote? As I explained above, a bad idea alone isn't indicative of alignment, but can be used to support a larger argument for why someone is acting against the town. I actually agree that Poets FoS is kinda weak and very sheepy, though I don't think sheeping is bad.

##Vote:Eurykins

Please answer this.

[MRDRHAWK]

Okay, so now I'm caught up, and I've got a few major thoughts.

-Vhaltz seems really sketchy and all over the place, and his read on SB is kinda weird; like, why are using meta to judge him this early? He's been scum all year and played very much as you described that he was... yet that auto-clears him somehow? Seems like a grasp at gaining towncred imo. He also makes these big content posts, but has no actual scumreads, which still means he's dodging something. There's also something else he did that really pisses me off, which I'll get to in a minute.

-Not seeing the case on Kay, IMO. Sure, the Vhaltz vote was... weird for how it was reasoned, but that seems like a bad reason to push a wagon on her. The reasoning on GP is solid, but why not vote her instead if you're bugged more? Self-meta sucks, sure, but was it really enough to push Vhaltz over the top for you?

As for the people on the wagon, Vhaltz I've talked about already, and Randa... well, I'll get to him.

-Eury's defense of Vhaltz is also kinda bad. Like, his reaction in #98 was not good at all. Granted, I do agree that Kirsche needed to word that better, but then when I asked him later, he still never answered my question, aside from saying "oh, Kirsche mixed up". Okay, but he could still answer the fucking question. "Paranoia vibes" is also a really fucking stupid reason for defending a post, especially one that's bloated and doesn't really do anything. Your SB read is also kinda... ehhh... and the bashing of his suggestion is atrocious. Making sure info is out there in the open is always a good idea, and SB is suggesting a way to make that happen. Do you have an actual read on him, let alone anyone else?

-Randa's bugging me again, although it's mostly in terms of style. He makes two RVS votes, and has very little actual content afterwards aside from a prodvote on Neko, a small post on a few people which ends in a Kay vote (which I still dislike), and incorrect votals. Also, this is nitpicking, but dude, you're messing up a lot of little things grammatically that make your posts hard to read. If you're not a native English speaker then I apologize, but if so, then... dude.

Other assorted things:

-Scorri, why do you still have your vote on BBM if Vhaltz + Prims bug you?

-GP, what reasons do you have for FoSing Vhaltz, aside from a gutread?

-Shinori, where's that "more stuff" that you promised?

-Prims' case on Eury is good, but he's got very little else going. What are your thoughts on the Vhaltz wagon?

-Garland/Psych/Neko: srsly guys, we need posts from you. Neko in particular since I see you lurking.

-Kirsche is probably the towniest player in the game ATM because he's actively asking questions, pursuing scum leads, and other such shit. (I'm still tired and don't feel like going into it more).

##Unvote

##Vote: Vhaltz

Would lynch/10. I'd also consolidate on Eury if need be for phase end. Not really up for any other lynches at this point.

[SB.]

Poly's posting seems kind of weird. It's almost artificial? Not sure if I'm describing this very well.

[Shinori]

I said I would post when I was feeling better and I plan on posting today. Yesterday I was feeling like real shit. You get a post form me in a bit. Currently in a league game though.

[Psych]

So anybody want to speculate on what each deck holds?

Not at all a worthwhile train of thought.

Weird counter point to take right after

It probably isn't worth it, but it did give me another idea.

Thoughts on everyone claiming what cards they used in the previous night every day? We wouldn't get that info from anyone who got nightkilled and it would force scum to lock in fakeclaims early, so I think it has it's merits. Could be extended to deck chosen too, I guess.

Pretty obvious they'd be able to play cards and kill

I'm up with it too, but there's no rule stating that scum can't use cards and kill simultaneously, that I could see at least.

Another post inc

Honestly I'd guess that he was asking for why you disagree with saying what cards we used.

Personally the more I've thought about it, the more I think it's less useful than people think. It's giving away information about what's in your hand and also what deck you drew from, and also I feel like unless your card gives actual useful information, it's not worth giving out that info.

As for Vhaltz's comments, I agree that I gave a fairly noncommittal read on Prims. And there's a reason for that. It's because I don't think there's enough information in the game yet for me to give a solid read on anyone. Especially not someone that I always have a hard time reading. Basically, I don't trust my read on him enough to warrant a vote, but I was asked to explain my thoughts on him, so I did.

I'm surprised how quickly Randa flopped on the sharing cards idea and it looks like he was trying to throw that out there and get some town opinions. Seems super scummy to me to flop that quickly. I just don't like these rapid fire point of view changes. ##Vote Randa

I don't like Vhaltz because it seems like he keeps trying to specifically state what he meant so no one misunderstands him while at the same time blowing things up out of proportion. Basically some pretty scummy ways of coming up with evidence of nothing there and defending himself at the same time.

[Psych]

also whoops i don't have much computer access to post but I can read on my mobile

[Randa]

I'm surprised how quickly Randa flopped on the sharing cards idea and it looks like he was trying to throw that out there and get some town opinions. Seems super scummy to me to flop that quickly. I just don't like these rapid fire point of view changes. ##Vote Randa

Don't put words in my mouth. Go read post 128. I said that I would still be willing to share the information. At no point have I said otherwise. I said I know why others don't want to, but I am still willing to share that information.

And just a quick question to poly. What else would you have me post on? I was sleeping for the majority of the discussion about Vhaltz and when I woke up he was in L-2 while I'm suspicious of a mayor in this setup. And apparently I need to go fix my votal chart.

[MRDRHAWK]

And just a quick question to poly. What else would you have me post on? I was sleeping for the majority of the discussion about Vhaltz and when I woke up he was in L-2 while I'm suspicious of a mayor in this setup. And apparently I need to go fix my votal chart.

Okay, first of all, where did the rolespec/setup-spec come from? Seriously, are you diving into that now? Secondly, wrt your not having anything else you could discuss, that's a pile of bullshit. Uou could post retroactively about Vhaltz, or talk about Eury's posts, or GP's FoSing, or... well, anything else occurring in the game that you feel that you want/need to comment on.

This attitude you seem to have towards reading through other things that aren't the major topic at hand seems very anti-town to me right now, and I'm not even sure if I can write that off as you being a newbie to SF mafia.

[Eurykins]

On the subject of Green, Eury: what was he supposed to do after Kay told him he should've voted? Refuse? You're pushing him as scum for response that he can't be blamed for at all. Also your main suspicion being based on them saying something you disagree with rather than finding scummy is really weak. I also find the BBM suspicion questionable, it's kind of like RD's associative reads content from last game where he analysed Rajam's voters as if he was town.

It shouldn't take someone prodding you for a vote to vote. If someone doesn't believe someone merits said vote, then they don't vote. Simple as that. If someone is not ready to vote at the time that they make a post, then no one else in the thread should be able to outright TELL them to vote for them or not. That is lining up someone's mindset to either be easily manipulated in terms of voting, or otherwise just serves to appease someone and to make way for easier/lazier voting, imo.

How do you think people were misrepping him and do you think those people are scummy?

Was explained in the first post regarding Vhaltz- especially surrounding your general question (in which he indeed inaccurately assumed you meant someone else when you didn't); I didn't see his response as dodging at all, as I myself have told people many times that, if I don't have a lot of information at hand for reads, I'm going to sit back and wait for more posts to come about before I solidify/put forth a read. It was a logical response, especially for ED1, and yet people harped on it like it was a scummy thing to want to see more from someone (and I believe, at the time he said so, there was little going on in the thread, therefore his comment made even more sense by that logic).

Why did you not try to take this thread in another direction then instead of unvoting and going "I'll think about stuff more". If you thought someone was being misrepped by others, why didn't you pressure one of the misrepping parties? Playing league is not an excuse.

It's not an excuse for me to post, sure, but there seemed to be an odd sense of "Let's wagon off Vhaltz" and not much else happening. I also did mention people in the sense of misrepping (IE. Poly) in my post, which was putting my thoughts/opinions on the situation forth while also looking/analyzing the wagon itself.

He's made 2 posts in total wrt Vhaltz, whereas I've argued against him and defended my opinion fiercely. If anyone is overly focused on Vhaltz it is me. Also, this seems a bit contradictory regardless as before these two posts most of your actual content has been on Vhaltz, except you haven't been scumhunting you were just defending him.

Two posts, yeah, but two posts amongst a tiny handful of MEANINGFUL posts = it's pretty much all BBM talked about. And even after more people started typing, his last post (unless I am mistaken) is purely set forth in response to him, and then merely tags on a "

Bearclaw, opinions on something real would be cool, thanks." at the end. All in all, Vhaltz- the easiest wagon that started up so far in D1, is all that he's bothered really looking at. Which, from my perspective, is not only opportunistic, but super lazy compared to what I've seen from town!BBM.

Why is suggesting a bad idea worse than making an easy vote? As I explained above, a bad idea alone isn't indicative of alignment, but can be used to support a larger argument for why someone is acting against the town. I actually agree that Poets FoS is kinda weak and very sheepy, though I don't think sheeping is bad.

To me, a bad idea is one thing, but I look behind it. WHY did he even suggest a terrible idea like that to begin with? The more information we vomit out freely, the more scum have to work with. In addition, there's a customized rule in this game that warrants even further worries wrt the whole 'claiming what deck/card we picked and used during the night phases', as it just makes us all the more predictable/easier to read as a whole.

^AKA. SB should know all of this, ergo he should know that the cons sorely outweigh the pros. In addition, his lack of actual good reasoning as to why we should (Dead people can't reveal it- OBVIOUS NOTIONS ARE OBVIOUS), and the whole fakeclaiming thing? That just screams he not only used bad logic with it, but he was trying to pretty it up to encourage us to do something that's probably going to hinder town tenfold. So, imo, he is acting against the town by even throwing out the idea, and it concerns me those who were like, 'Oh yeah, sounds like a good idea~ I'm all for it!'. Not sure if scum buddies or just over-eager players wanting to vomit out more than what's needed.

(And it is correct that sheeping isn't always bad. But it certainly screams out laziness to the max, imo, or otherwise implies that the person's is choosing not to voice their own thoughts/opinions for some reason.)

[Randa]

Okay, first of all, where did the rolespec/setup-spec come from? Seriously, are you diving into that now? Secondly, wrt your not having anything else you could discuss, that's a pile of bullshit. Uou could post retroactively about Vhaltz, or talk about Eury's posts, or GP's FoSing, or... well, anything else occurring in the game that you feel that you want/need to comment on.

This attitude you seem to have towards reading through other things that aren't the major topic at hand seems very anti-town to me right now, and I'm not even sure if I can write that off as you being a newbie to SF mafia.

No I'm not diving into Rolespec now. If you actually paid attention to what I've posted you would see that in #127 I mentioned that I wouldn't be surprised by a mayor, which means that I have reason to believe there is a mayor in this game. I'm not going to disclose those reasons, but that belief is the major reason I didn't vote for Vhaltz.

And talk about hypocrisy. I don't need to talk about the major wagon. You haven't talked about anything. Your first post in a long time was the reiteration of all the points which have been made. With the exception of your dislike of me. I don't post just to say that I've posted. I post when I have the need answer questions or provide an original thought. You have been the antithesis of that.

And don't give me the bullshit about four reads. Everything you said about Vhaltz has been discussed. It's all that's been discussed. If you want to say you Eury post was original than must be Prims or Kirsche because they posted everything you said long before you did. And your defense of Kay is just "LOL look at who's voting".

For the record I don't think Poly is scum. No matter what image this post may paint. I just think he's a hypocrite.

[MRDRHAWK]

No I'm not diving into Rolespec now. If you actually paid attention to what I've posted you would see that in #127 I mentioned that I wouldn't be surprised by a mayor, which means that I have reason to believe there is a mayor in this game. I'm not going to disclose those reasons, but that belief is the major reason I didn't vote for Vhaltz.

Okay, I went back and re-read. You have your votals now (Kaoz did them), so where's the proof of a potential mayor?

And talk about hypocrisy. I don't need to talk about the major wagon. You haven't talked about anything. Your first post in a long time was the reiteration of all the points which have been made. With the exception of your dislike of me. I don't post just to say that I've posted. I post when I have the need answer questions or provide an original thought. You have been the antithesis of that.

There's some great reasoning here, bruh. Nice touch with the examples.

FTR, I'm trying to tell people where I stand in regards to the whole thing, and if I happen to agree with a lot of the points that others have mentioned, then I'm obviously going to be sure of that. Sure, my thoughts may not be "original" wrt Vhaltz + Eury, but at least I have thoughts, which you don't seem to.

Also, having to be prodded to post is (FMPOV, don't know about other people's POVs) considered pretty scummy as well, since it makes you look like you're actively avoiding discussion; thus, you already know who is scum (i.e, you & your buddies).

Also also, I'm not just "posting for the sake of posting". Outside of RVS, I'd had yet to make a post, primarily due to my waiting until there was some actual content to analyse first before saying anything so I didn't sound like I was being an anal-retentive cockwaffle.

And don't give me the bullshit about four reads. Everything you said about Vhaltz has been discussed. It's all that's been discussed. If you want to say you Eury post was original than must be Prims or Kirsche because they posted everything you said long before you did. And your defense of Kay is just "LOL look at who's voting".

I already addressed most of this, since you're sounding like a broken fucking record right now, but I'll go a bit more in depth about the Kay thing. Kay's reasoning was decent enough for me not to see where the case was coming from, though I do seem a bit wary of her because of the unusual scorri comment.

For the record I don't think Poly is scum. No matter what image this post may paint. I just think he's a hypocrite.

As much as I have to commend you for not thinking that I'm scum - showing you're not just being a knob - I have two questions for you based off of this point.

1. Who else do you honestly think is scum based off what you've seen? You can't honestly say that you've only got one scumread from the content thus far.

2. Exactly what made you feel the way that you do about the people you have commented on (Vhaltz/Prims/Kay)? I get that you're kinda ehhh on Vhaltz - which is understandable via content padding - but why are you still suspicious of Prims, especially since he's apparently a lot like SB in your eyes? And how is it that you're still needing to "read into" Kay with low content levels on her end?

[Vhaltz]

Poly, stop saying something is "fucking stupid" instead of explaining why it's likely to come from scum. Rage doesn't make you sound cooler and it clouds my read on you because for all I know you could be using it as an excuse to not have to actually do shit for scumhunting as scum. Insulting everything does not a case make.

[SB.]

It shouldn't take someone prodding you for a vote to vote. If someone doesn't believe someone merits said vote, then they don't vote. Simple as that. If someone is not ready to vote at the time that they make a post, then no one else in the thread should be able to outright TELL them to vote for them or not. That is lining up someone's mindset to either be easily manipulated in terms of voting, or otherwise just serves to appease someone and to make way for easier/lazier voting, imo.

If you don't vote, you get people yelling at you for it. If you do vote, you get called out for appeasement. You're basically calling him scummy for being in a situation that he can't look good in.

Two posts, yeah, but two posts amongst a tiny handful of MEANINGFUL posts = it's pretty much all BBM talked about. And even after more people started typing, his last post (unless I am mistaken) is purely set forth in response to him, and then merely tags on a "

Bearclaw, opinions on something real would be cool, thanks." at the end. All in all, Vhaltz- the easiest wagon that started up so far in D1, is all that he's bothered really looking at. Which, from my perspective, is not only opportunistic, but super lazy compared to what I've seen from town!BBM.

That's really all that was happening at that point though. Calling people out for being tunnel visioned early on is dumb, unless you want townies to bs reads that they don't believe in.

To me, a bad idea is one thing, but I look behind it. WHY did he even suggest a terrible idea like that to begin with? The more information we vomit out freely, the more scum have to work with. In addition, there's a customized rule in this game that warrants even further worries wrt the whole 'claiming what deck/card we picked and used during the night phases', as it just makes us all the more predictable/easier to read as a whole.

^AKA. SB should know all of this, ergo he should know that the cons sorely outweigh the pros. In addition, his lack of actual good reasoning as to why we should (Dead people can't reveal it- OBVIOUS NOTIONS ARE OBVIOUS), and the whole fakeclaiming thing? That just screams he not only used bad logic with it, but he was trying to pretty it up to encourage us to do something that's probably going to hinder town tenfold. So, imo, he is acting against the town by even throwing out the idea, and it concerns me those who were like, 'Oh yeah, sounds like a good idea~ I'm all for it!'. Not sure if scum buddies or just over-eager players wanting to vomit out more than what's needed.

And if our roles are outed, we can see how scum react to them. The only thing we would claim would the things already gone. We wouldn't risk losing watcher reports or cop innos due to them dying before they can give out the reports and we have a better chance to catch scum in a lie early on before they have a chance to perfect their fakeclaims. The mafia don't know what we have left in our hands, they might be able to guess but then they could just end up hitting someone who drew a roleblocker card rather than an actual roleblocker, for example. Plus massclaims tend to break role madness games if they're poorly designed anyway, but whatever. So yeah, I think the idea could've been valid. If people don't want to do it, fine, but calling someone scum over a poorly thought out idea that wasn't even poorly thought out is terrible.

(And it is correct that sheeping isn't always bad. But it certainly screams out laziness to the max, imo, or otherwise implies that the person's is choosing not to voice their own thoughts/opinions for some reason.)

Why aren't you applying this to Prims too? What makes his blatant sheeping of BBM's Vhaltz vote acceptable?

Poly and Randa's posts both read really weird to me. I need to look into them closer, but they just feel sort of wrong.

[Randa]

For the record I am sick right now. I slept for nearly 13 hours. I was working on my post when I was prodded.

I can't remember if I already stated this but one of the major reasons that I don't like Kay right now is making Green Poet. Seems like hurrying a lynch before we even looked into to anybody else yet. Which seems Anti-Town to me.

And in my honest opinion my scum ranks go:

Neko

Kay

Vhaltz

Psych

Prims

I prodded Neko about 20 hours ago. Still have seen any content from him. He said he's post today hasn't and its getting on my nerves.

The issue that I have with Prims is that he hasn't really been doing much since the votes came off of him. And aside from that he is like SB in my mind.

Vhaltz I'm still waffling on. I see and understand the cases made against him. However they aren't something I would act on right now.

And Psych irks me because he seems like he's trying make a case where there isn't one. And to get that he is using untrue information.

[Vhaltz]

So I know that Poly is prone to being mislynched as town and I've cased him as scum before based on not reading and paying close attention to the people whom he was making cases on (which is something he does here as well, in the first paragraph of the post it doesn't look like he remembers I mentioned several scumspects across my last two big posts until he goes back to check on my vote), but this is different.

-Not seeing the case on Kay, IMO. Sure, the Vhaltz vote was... weird for how it was reasoned, but that seems like a bad reason to push a wagon on her. The reasoning on GP is solid, but why not vote her instead if you're bugged more? Self-meta sucks, sure, but was it really enough to push Vhaltz over the top for you?

As for the people on the wagon, Vhaltz I've talked about already, and Randa... well, I'll get to him.

The intent here is clearly to discredit cases on Kay, but the bolded part is directed at Kay and he questions her in a way that implies that he thinks she's scummy in the same line as he is trying to defend her.

@SB Is it plausible for town!Poly to brain fart hard enough to post something like this? What does Poly!scum look like compared to Poly!town?

Asking SB cause he's around but if anybody else has an answer to this I'll take it.