It's Time To Duel!!!! Mafia [Game Over]

[Psych]

Opinions about everybody right now. My lynch preference is Psych but I'm 99% sure that a wagon won't be going by the end of the phase. However I feel like I'm in the same position with Kay right now so I'm gonna Unvote. I will probably wind up going with the wagon I most agree with in the next two or three hours.

##Unvote

Would like to lynch:

Psych: Weak vote with untrue information as its backing. In the same post though he shows some minor understanding of the situation so skimming might be a reason. Would like to hear who else he thinks is scum.

Where did I say something untrue? Were you lying at the time you made those posts or did you not want the town to claim cards so the mafia might know what they're working against?

[Vhaltz]

Too many posts suddenly

Apparently i'm still in thread if i leave it up on my phone in the background. Also I didn't vote you so not really sure how that's me coasting on a bandwagon

Coasting on the wagon meaning I'm attracting all the attention and votes and you're just coasting by watching it happen.

[Psych]

So i have to oppose any wagon with you or can I be okay with your lynch even if I preferred a different one? I didn't realize we had to keep you alive

[Vhaltz]

Voting for Eury is extremely dumb unless you want to think we're scum together. If I'm town and she's scum white-knighting my wagon* there's absolutely no reason for her to follow through with her defense on me so hard. She started gathering suspicion rather fast and all it would take for scum!Eury to avoid having the wagon build any further would be going back to some part of my posts she didn't defend and say "oh hey guys this is scummy you were right, idk anymore" and switch to null focusing on other things instead of digging herself a grave the way she is doing atm.

* which I just noticed is a weird case to make when you haven't at any time said that you actually think I'm town, more like you've tried to imply that your suspicions of me still stand, Mr Prims. What is your actual read on me?

[scorri]

1) she clearly understood my case back when it happened and admitted to being at fault.

2) she is actively avoiding giving reasons why it is bad. One should explain why things are scummy and not bad, but scorri is avoiding giving reasons for anything altogether.

1.There's a difference between agreeing that I did something and agreeing that it was worth voting me over. It was so early in the game that there's no way I could have a solid read on anyone. So, no, I still think that you voting me over it was bad as I said in:

Hmm, Vhaltz is interesting. It feels like he was sort of doing the same thing he accused me of doing where he was sort of pushing you but didn't have a vote on you. But apparently that didn't mean he was scum reading you, he was just trying to get you to post more? I dunno, feels kinda weird and his switch off Shinori onto me felt bad but that's probably influenced partially because I know I'm not scum, so of course a vote on me is bad. But... I'm not sure. I'm never sure D1 though so... bleh. Vaguely leaning scum I guess maybe?

Here. It's true, I didn't explain why, that's my fault I thought I had and didn't bother to check. So now I'll explain my reasons:

1) You had a weak prodvote on Shinori and then jumped off of it to vote me for extremely weak reasons

2) You were voting me because I was unsure about Prims when you yourself had been poking at Prims without laying down a vote. You say that it was a reaction test, but it's easy to go back and make something into a reaction test after the fact.

3) You overexaggerated the wagon on Prims (or lack there of) to make it seem like my lack of vote on it was worse than it was.

Should I go on?

You then pushed on Kay for vote parking when she hadn't even been back. That was my exact point. It's not exactly vote parking if they haven't made any other posts. At that point, your vote on them is useless, you're not going to get anything from them until they post, but instead of looking elsewhere, putting your vote somewhere else you found scummy and maybe getting info, you just continued to push on saying "Oh there must be scum on my wagon because people have been inactive and thus leaving their votes on me" which is just really faulty logic. Town can be inactive just as easily as scum, and when it's someone like Kay, inactivity is a completely null tell.

##Vote:Vhaltz

Leaving in like half an hour, don't expect me back before phase end but I'll try to make it.

[Randa]

I know you said you were still up for doing it, but it was basically a reaction test to see town opinions on doing so. You almost immediately withdrew the idea as soon as someone was opposed, yet said you would still do it, as if that would earn you credit if we do it later one. That's pretty much not having a strong opinion and just trying to please people so you don't looking scummy later on if we have to claim cards.

This is what we call OMGUS, since i'm pretty sure i'm not pulling these quotes out of my ass

Just for the record, that's my point. There is no logical reason for town to pull their opinion that quickly unless they just wanted to make it seem like they were trying to do something to get quick info and fit in, which scum wants.

Yeah you aren't pulling quotes out of your ass. Cause you don't have any quotes.

Here's the conversation in an immediate four posts. 84-87 if you wanna go actually read them.

So anybody want to speculate on what each deck holds?

Not at all a worthwhile train of thought.

It probably isn't worth it, but it did give me another idea.

Thoughts on everyone claiming what cards they used in the previous night every day? We wouldn't get that info from anyone who got nightkilled and it would force scum to lock in fakeclaims early, so I think it has it's merits. Could be extended to deck chosen too, I guess.

I'm willing to do this.

First I would like to point out that I proposed the idea to speculate on the decks. I still would. Obviously not now when everybody has already picked their decks but I have no problem speculating early in the day phase.

Second where the hell am I the one proposing the idea to share which cards we play. I would need to be the one proposing it to withdraw it. Unless I'm misinterpreting you.

Third show me the post. You say you can quote than do it. Stop the bullshit about it being true when I have never gone back on that sentiment. Go through my ISO and you won't ever see me going back on it. The foundation of your case against me is bullshit.

My opinion on you doesn't change.

[SB.]

Why is everyone expecting vhaltz to have a full understanding of kay's meta when she died night 1 the only time they played together? Vhaltz was also right to call scorri out on the no follow up point, even if I disagree with the vote itself.

The fact that almost literally everyone seems to want to murder Vhaltz also concerns me. Gonna respond to more in depth stuff now.

[SB.]

I think Vhaltz should consider claiming anyway though since I think we have 8 hours or something left?

[SB.]

a little more than that but still

[Da Bear]

I wouldn't lynch vhaltz personally.

Not really getting anything but randa but isos might happen soon so more later unless my headache decides to stick around

[SB.]

bearclaw: Eury and Poly thoughts?

[Kaoz]

Vhaltz (4): Kay, Green Poet, Mango Sentinel, scorri SB, kirsche, Prims, Shinori, BBM

Eurykins (2): Prims, kirsche, Prims, Randa, Mango Sentinel, SB

SB (2): Eurykins, Shinori, Prims, Randa, kirsche

Randa (2): Psych, dragonfang13

Kay (1): Vhaltz, Randa

Polydeuces (1): SB

BBM (0): scorri

NekoRex (0): Mango Sentinel, Prims, Randa

MangoSentinel (0): Eurykins

Shinori (0): Kay, Vhaltz

scorri (0): kirsche, Vhaltz

Prims (0): Vhaltz, BBM, SB, Shinori, dragonfang13

Not Voting (4): 3-13 Garland, Shin, BBM, Randa

9 hours, 57 minutes until deadline.

[Vhaltz]

Wait I just remembered some of SB and kirsche's points were due to her priorities and whatnot. I still don't think she'd be so overzealous with her defense on me as scum though?

Here. It's true, I didn't explain why, that's my fault I thought I had and didn't bother to check. So now I'll explain my reasons:

1) You had a weak prodvote on Shinori and then jumped off of it to vote me for extremely weak reasons

2) You were voting me because I was unsure about Prims when you yourself had been poking at Prims without laying down a vote. You say that it was a reaction test, but it's easy to go back and make something into a reaction test after the fact.

3) You overexaggerated the wagon on Prims (or lack there of) to make it seem like my lack of vote on it was worse than it was.

All of this was early enough in the game that it was completely warranted in its context and you are blowing it out of proportion.

1) The vote on Shinori was weak when it was the first serious vote in the game? big fucking surprise. I'll tell you what's weak, painting precisely THIS as scummy within my gazillion posts is what is weak.

2) I voted you when there was nothing else that was scummy because the only other thing that people thought worth mentioning was me? big fucking surprise

3) I considered the wagon on Prims to be significant wagon for few hours into the game. Your perception isn't the universal standard for when something is significant or not.

Do continue, your reasons to vote me are not only extremely outdated but are completely cherry-picked out of things that others have pointed out as opposed to building an original thought process who pretty much everybody else voting me has been able to do. Your outlook on the latter part of my play amounts to zero outside "Kay is generally inactive you're wrong", painting it as scummy just because I have few scumreads and have to stick with what I consider to be scum. I could've easily voted Poly or Psych when I brought out legitimate points on them but didn't because I actually give a damn that my scumreads are somewhat reliable.

I don't buy your turnaround on the "precisely because you followed up on Kay", it completely contradicts what you were saying earlier.

"his vote on Kay, at least I think, isn't especially great either since it essentially boils down to "your reasons for voting me are bad, must be scum" and then later adds something about voteparking when he'd been parked on her for almost as long with no real update to his case."

##Unvote

##Vote: scorri

On the subject of Psych, his lasts posts aren't exactly good but my gut is telling me not to lynch him atm.

[SB.]

I'm pretty sure that Vhaltz and Eury are either both town or scumbuddies at this point.

Looking back through Eury's ISO, she never really says anything on Vhaltz earlygame past "man this wagon sure is FAST and tunnel visioned!" and then says to refer to her previous posts for her opinions on him but they aren't there. She never actually addresses Vhaltz as a player, which is pretty weird considering he's been the leading wagon all day. What actually is your opinion there Eury?

This post also doesn't make sense coming from scum!Vhaltz with a town!Eury either imo, he's basically calling the main counterwagon to his lynch bad. They could still be buddies though.

[scorri]

... That's my point? You didn't follow up on Kay until recently at which point you say that she's voteparking on you. Which is the exact same thing you're doing to her. She hasn't posted so you haven't had a chance to follow up on her but she hasn't posted so she hasn't had a chance to follow up on you.

[Vhaltz]

Did I say you guys should lynch scorri? because you should.

She was essentially wrong about her "original case" on me so she effectively retconned it and changed it to something different, threw in some reasons that were brought up in the wagon spike nearly 48 hours ago to cover up for it and put down her vote in fake anger to evade answering to why she wasn't already voting me with what she had brought up.

claiming now

[scorri]

Wait, sorry, anger? I'm not angry. Never was, never claimed to be. Dunno where you're getting that. I'm not retconning it, I'm explaining it better since apparently I did a poor job of that in the first place. I wasn't aware that I needed to evade why I wasn't voting you before. I've been extremely unsure about my reads this game so I've been not been really doing much with my vote. I then put a vote down because I'm leaving and am not sure if I'm going to be back before deadline. My reasons from back then were brought up because as you said, I hadn't explained myself back then when I thought I had. Simple enough.

[Shin]

Yo, I enter the game as the coolest player, or at least a member of the top 10! I'll need a little while to read stuff, you guys blab on about the strangest things!

[Randa]

Just a quick question has anyone else noticed that Eli put 18 slots in the player list. Does that indicate hidden players or anything special?

[Vhaltz]

I'm a vanilla town with a couple of powers. I only managed to crumb one of them due to being super busy answering everything and trying to get scumreads and not having time to come up with ways to make series of words spell out shit with the first letter of each.

I have a Hacker card that causes my target to target themselves with whatever action they use.

I'm going full thought process transparency mode now like old days, Prims might want to shoot himself but eh, it's worth a try.

This was the only way I could think of crumbing it without being obvious. Psych pointing out that Prims could be crumbing vig makes this funnier but I think he was just calling a vig on my slot.

Which actually makes me think Prims is probably town because I don't think he'd have doubts about being able to pull off a lynch on me today if he were scum.

I have Boyscout's Handbook card that's just a tracker shot.

And I have a third power that's really dumb, with usefulness that's extremely situational at best and I'm not planning on using it ever so idk if it's worth claiming.

[scorri]

No hiddens. If I had to guess it was in case subs signed up and he needed to randomize the signup list but I don't know for sure.

Anyways, I'm out, bye guys.

[Elieson]

when I use my phone to edit, it occasionally adds An extra "bullet" to my list of players.

Rules say no hiddens, so Just go by that

[Psych]

Prims usually telegraphs his powers

or fake claims cop first post of day 2

[Vhaltz]

...I guess you might not have been angry? idk why I perceived it like that.

I still don't like everything else though. Scorri's followup is purely defensive when town should've been pushing their case. Everything she pulled up on me was weak and outdated aside from maybe the Kay thing in the case that she really meant it the way she says she does, which I have my doubts about. You haven't really answered why it constitutes scum intent if I just had no other better scumreads either. You called my other content "padding" and never refer to it once when actually reading through it should clearly demonstrate that I was looking for alternate suspects (Poly, Psych, Randa) yet always found Kay to be worthier of my vote.

[Vhaltz]

Btw Psych, can you quote the parts where Randa contradicted himself and switched opinions 180º?