It's Time To Duel!!!! Mafia [Game Over]

[SB.]

Poly's only been scum once in NOC and I didn't really read the game, but his posts read really formulaic and almost unnatural to me this game.

[MRDRHAWK]

Poly's only been scum once in NOC and I didn't really read the game, but his posts read really formulaic and almost unnatural to me this game.

that's a lie I was scum in badass

The intent here is clearly to discredit cases on Kay, but the bolded part is directed at Kay and he questions her in a way that implies that he thinks she's scummy in the same line as he is trying to defend her.

Because I want more out of her. The case feels like it's lacking because there's not much to it because of her lack of content, so I want more. Kay's more of a null read ATM because of this, but I'm wanting to see more from her before I move on from it.

[SB.]

Okay, I went back and re-read. You have your votals now (Kaoz did them), so where's the proof of a potential mayor?

How the hell was he supposed to know this back before votals happened? Don't like this push at all.

Also also, I'm not just "posting for the sake of posting". Outside of RVS, I'd had yet to make a post, primarily due to my waiting until there was some actual content to analyse first before saying anything so I didn't sound like I was being an anal-retentive cockwaffle.

This is more scummy than it is townie imo. Town want to get out of RVS as soon as possible and this post just sounds super self conscious.

Badass wasn't NOC.

[SB.]

Also his Kay defense is really weird, yeah.

[Vhaltz]

I can't find either of those games for some reason?

Just link me over to whatever NOC game Poly was scum in

[SB.]

Unnamed (NOC, Anon name: Fluffy Platypus, game wasn't particularly pleasant at points)

Badass (OC so it's pretty different)

[Vhaltz]

Eh I don't think he's scum atm. I've been trying to word out why for a while and scrapped the post every time it got longer than a paragraph because it started to sound really dumb. His behavior here and in Unnamed just don't look anything alike so far.

[Prims]

Yeah I still like the Eury wagon. Voting SB for "not being memorable" plus his suggestion isn't any less contrived here than when kirsche did it, and at least kirsche backed it up. Recklessness isn't scummy, if anything, scum are too worried about their appearance to act reckless frequently. If it's possible for the people who supported SB's idea to be over-eager then how does this not apply to SB himself? (FWIW I thought SB's plan seemed valid but ignored it because I don't really like playing the rolegame and would rather keep my cards secret personally.)

kirsche's defense is fair.

I was sleeping for the majority of the discussion about Vhaltz and when I woke up he was in L-2 while I'm suspicious of a mayor in this setup.

this seems weird, like Randa took what I said about a potential mayor and ran with it. Risk of hammer doesn't prevent you from talking about something either way so using it as a defense is dodging the point. I also think his responses to Poly look really, really touchy; I definitely wouldn't say Poly hasn't talked about anything so it comes off like Randa is trying to discredit him.

@Poly: I don't have thoughts about any Vhaltz voters I haven't already talked about. As is I find Vhaltz a headache to read because there's simultaneously some Townie Shit and some Scummy Shit and I'm inclined to just see if he gets shot at night or not. Want to keep my eye on BBM and Kay though.

[BBM]

Firstly, if possible, can people avoid saying stuff in spoilers? They're not working consistently for me at the moment, since sometimes the page doesn't load properly and I get too lazy to wait 30 seconds for it to load again. This refers mostly to a few things Vhaltz posted, though I ended up accessing them through ISO.

I can kind of see what SB means in that Poly's posts don't feel like they usually do. I don't remember him walling a lot as town before for one thing. More than that it's not so much that his tone is similar to Unnamed as that it feels different from his town games.

@Eury- I have some townreads but both times I've been mislynched, the wagon on me has started because of giving early townreads for reasons people didn't think were necessary. If you want me to give them I can, but a low amount of scumreads =/= not trying to progress the game.

meh at this point it seems like my Vhaltz case is coming down to a disagreement in what makes more tactical sense- furthering a reaction test or voting your top scumread. I think his Kay vote is pretty good actually.

##Unvote

I will reread in a few hours and decide who I find worst at the moment. Randa and Kay were giving me bad impressions I think.

[Green Poet]

-GP, what reasons do you have for FoSing Vhaltz, aside from a gutread?

As I stated in the post where I resolved to vote him, I didn't like how noncommittal he was being in stating who he thought was scum, even after this was presented as the rationale for others' voting him. He's been posting frequently, but I'm seeing far more restated self-defense than anything.

It shouldn't take someone prodding you for a vote to vote. If someone doesn't believe someone merits said vote, then they don't vote. Simple as that. If someone is not ready to vote at the time that they make a post, then no one else in the thread should be able to outright TELL them to vote for them or not. That is lining up someone's mindset to either be easily manipulated in terms of voting, or otherwise just serves to appease someone and to make way for easier/lazier voting, imo.

Doing this would have only affirmed what Kay had been saying against me. Continuing not to vote wouldn't really have contributed to progressing the game or pressuring people into offering more thoughts. This "don't vote, while not offering scumreads" passivity is somewhat odd to me.

Would like to hear more from Shinori and NNM, as they'd had a lot to say early on and haven't responded to anything current.

[Elieson]

Also, because apparently I left this out of the rules:

You may not target yourself in any way, unless otherwise specified within your RolePM by a mod.

[Shinori]

tbh I'm here but have no opinion on anything even though people are arguing so I'm Lurking As Strategy.

BBM's case on Vhaltz looks good though. ##Unvote, ##Vote: Vhaltz

scorri, what do you think about Vhaltz himself?

The case on Vhaltz was good imo but you should talk more!

I have some catching up to do; sorry, guys.

Anyway, from what I've been able to gather so far, and correct me if I'm wrong:

-Prims was sort of a wagon for the first few pages because of his joking/over-reactionary vote in retaliation to BBM's.

-Vhaltz is now a wagon because of people feeling uneasy about his take on Prims and avoiding (?) giving definite reads when asked.

As of right now, I think the basis of the suspicion on Prims was founded a bit too early, and too much on RVS for me to really buy into it.

FoS on Vhaltz for now.

This post just seemed very small and forced in my opinion.

what even is this post. It's not like people can't spend 5 minutes or something to read the thing, so how does it make him scum?

Green's suspicion of Vhaltz (enough to vote after Kay told him to) is kind of odd considering he doesn't fully understand the reason he's being voted by a bunch of people? I mean it's not scummy, but I find it really weird? Who else is scum, btw. You haven't actually said anything on anyone else and the rest of your content is reporting rather than scumhunting.

On the subject of Green, Eury: what was he supposed to do after Kay told him he should've voted? Refuse? You're pushing him as scum for response that he can't be blamed for at all. Also your main suspicion being based on them saying something you disagree with rather than finding scummy is really weak. I also find the BBM suspicion questionable, it's kind of like RD's associative reads content from last game where he analysed Rajam's voters as if he was town.

kirsche's "no content" vote on me is lol for a D1 suspicion, especially considering I haven't actually been able to post for most of it and other people still have similar levels of content to me. Why are bad ideas scummy anyway (especially when other people agreed with it?) I also don't understand how I avoided contributing either.

scorri should give solid opinions soon too. I don't think the way she's going about things is scummy at this stage but I'd be worried if it stayed like this for a while.

I'm sort of waffling on Vhaltz right now. His posts are still bad but they read kind of genuine so I don't know.

##Unvote

##Vote: Eurykins

Really kind of felt this post wasn't all that good. Waffles on Vhaltz, waffles on Scorri, also why is it whenever someone calls you out for inactivity you kind of brush it off in the manner that you did. It reminds me of that last game where you did that and you were scum. Also I honestly find it weird that you vote Eury but the only thing you say to Eury or about Eury is the bolded.

Was gonna ask Why did kay vote Vhaltz over Scorri but prims got that.

Kirsche bringing up SB is kind of interesting and I pretty much agree with his thought process. Also @Vhaltz: I wouldn't really say someone like SB is town jsut because posting or writing styles. That could be a way to find out if a few people are town or scum, but not really him.

I don't entirely agree with the Eury wagon. Whereas I don't think her defense of Vhaltz with no other vote was really smart I also don't get a scum vibe from her. Maybe I'm biased because of her but I don't really think so and I honestly don't get a scum read from her. And her more recent posts make me feel like she's leaning more town at the moment.

Mango Sentinel(Poly?) is bugging me. Just not liking his posts...but back to other stuff!

All this being said:

##Unvote:

##Vote: SB

SB > Vhaltz > Poly at the moment probably would be my vote thing.

[Elieson]

25 hours (and 8 minutes) remain

[Prims]

nnr has to be town since when the hell does scum look at the thread without posting for this long

[Vhaltz]

I haven't commented on the Eury thing so far because I can understand the points given against her but disagree that they necessarily make her scum. Pretty much agree with Shinori here.

Although wrt Shinori it irks me that the only thing he adds onto the SB case is "waffling" when he clearly states it as such himself and only spends one sentence on each nullread (one of which was the player he was currently voting and it makes sense that he'd explain why he's switching). It certainly doesn't give me the feeling that he's abusing waffles to pad his posts if that's what you were trying to imply, so why does the waffling make him scum?

Also missed this yesterday

##FoS: Psych

His Randa vote is based entirely on the false claim that he jump-switched his opinion wrt SB's suggestion, painting it as a completely unexplained 180º. There's like no logical explanation for town to do this (unless they're not really playing the game, but his side-comment on me makes me feel like he was reading alright). Is there some Psych meta thing I'm missing?

There's also been like half the activity rate while I was sleeping than there was the other night, which leads me to think that somebody is likely to be voteparking scum coasting past midD1 and directly into deadline. Kay fits the voteparking profile and there's scum intent to be had by sitting there (reinforcing her case on me would mean exposing herself to criticism at an important D1 juncture before consolidation) so I'm currently feeling pretty good about my Kay case/vote.

Speaking of deadline, it happens at like 6-7 AM my time and it's impossible for me to be around then, I'll stick around until 1:00-1:30 AM but not much longer than that.

Kay > Psych >> Poly (would lynch over null/townreads but don't think he's very likely to be scum atm, so uninterested otherwise) > rest > Eury/SB >> kirsche.

[Randa]

If your just looking for scum off of voteparking, why don't you look at BBM, Bear, or Green Poet? They've all been there for a while without posting anything.

[Randa]

Wow I'm stupid. Just noticed that BBM posted and moved his vote. And Poet also posted. Point still stands about Bear thoug.

[Vhaltz]

I had a snippet in that post where I noted that 3-13, bearclaw and NNR are being completely nonexistant and unreadable but I left it out because it didn't really add anything to discussion.

I can understand suspecting Bearclaw above the other two, he was around for a while in ED1 unlike the other two and didn't really do jack. I'd lynch him over townreads but it would be a crapshoot and it wouldn't really give any post-flip information through interactions with other players.

I'm obviously not a fan that Poet is voting me and not really looking at other people, but I'm not reading his posts as hiding scum intent, they feel more like he's struggling to contribute something into the game. Idk.

[Elieson]

....::::Seeking a Sub:::::....

3-13 Garland has been prodded

Edited March 19, 2014 by Elieson

[Vhaltz]

Randa what's your read on Eury and kirsche? You mentioned liking what Prims brought up on them a while ago but you seem to have forgotten about them since then.

[Prims]

lol bye nnr

If your just looking for scum off of voteparking, why don't you look at BBM, Bear, or Green Poet? They've all been there for a while without posting anything.

waht's your own opinion on these players? this feels like egging vhaltz on without really doing anything yourself. in fact i get sleazy vibes from basically everything you've posted this phase

[Vhaltz]

Prims what do you think about the Psych thing?

Off to class

[Prims]

Is there some Psych meta thing I'm missing?

Psych's meta is that he reads the thread by ctrl+fing the word "Psych"

also he claimed limited access so I'm not really sure what to think, would like an updated post from him.

[Zkirsche]

Making sure info is out there in the open is always a good idea

Not necessarily. If this was the case then cops would claim straight after N1 with their result. The reason they don't is because that info generally usually won't help catch scum too much (unless it's a guilty of course) and just paints a big target sign on people's heads. In this case, our cards are our roles, so doing this tells scum a lot.

I didn't see his response as dodging at all

Annoying use of the word misrep but ok. There is a difference between misinterpreting and misrepresenting. The former is accidental, the latter is more purposeful: used to guide others into making the wrong interpretation.

Two posts, yeah, but two posts amongst a tiny handful of MEANINGFUL posts = it's pretty much all BBM talked about.

Well, I'll use your defence against you then: at the time, he felt that the only meaningful there was to talk about was Vhaltz and now he hasn't had a chance to post since. Why is this scummy, but you weren't scummy?

WHY did he even suggest a terrible idea like that to begin with?

Because he brainfarted? Just because SB is good doesn't mean he couldn't make mistakes. Again, if you think Green Poet is being super lazy and had really weak reasoning then why not vote her instead of someone who may have just formulated a bad plan after being put in a setup which is unfamiliar territory?

If you don't vote, you get people yelling at you for it. If you do vote, you get called out for appeasement. You're basically calling him scummy for being in a situation that he can't look good in.

SB, what do you think of: "It shouldn't take someone to prod you to vote for you to vote" as I feel like you're getting sidetracked with being annoyed that people think Green is in an undefendable position while ignoring why people think Green is in an undefendable position. I'm willing to let Green slide on this due to being relatively new, but I don't see the scumminess in the logic itself.

Also I honestly find it weird that you vote Eury but the only thing you say to Eury or about Eury is the bolded.

Tbf that's the most he's ever posted about a single person aside from maybe Vhaltz.

I can't really get a read from Poly but I kinda dislike some of the criticism on him. I get the feeling that SB said that Poly's posts are organised(well, fomulaic) so he's not playing to his town meta and thus is kinda scummy, which is bad metagaming. Unless you feel like the organisation is forced, but then why? Also not sure that Psych is scum based on what he said as thinking that Randa was easily disillusioned with the idea doesn't feel like the kidn of argument scum would use. Scum would probably just follow along with the whole "Randa isn't really helping much" line that has been brought up by a few people.

Actually Vhaltz what is your opinion on Randa, you didn't include him in your scum priority? You hinted earlier that he was a townread, but haven't really commented at all on recent actions or on his side of the conversation with Poly, instead focusing on Poly.

Both Kay and Randa have some stuff they need to answer for, and I hope that they can find something unique of their own in the process. Basically sheeping others' logic until I see more.

Eury = Vhaltz > SB >> Kay/Randa > Everyone Else

[Da Bear]

So I have literally no time but managed to skim the thread and I'm finding Randa really disagreeable, his NNR vote was hypocritical and the way he phrased it it looks like he found NNR being in the thread without posting scummy. The mayorspec isn't bad in and of itself but I don't really like the way he worded it all out. I also don't like this post:

If your just looking for scum off of voteparking, why don't you look at BBM, Bear, or Green Poet? They've all been there for a while without posting anything.

kind of reads like an attempt to sow doubt or something similar.

##Unvote

##Vote Randa

I'll probably be back before phase end but not for long and I will be asleep at phase end unless my math skills are fail