It's Time To Duel!!!! Mafia [Game Over]

[Randa]

Will post in about an hour. In class.

[Shinori]

Could we get votals?

[Randa]

Randa what's your read on Eury and kirsche? You mentioned liking what Prims brought up on them a while ago but you seem to have forgotten about them since then.

I still believe that what Prims said was valid at the time. However Eury's explanation as to why she was trying to get the focus off of Vhaltz was was good enough to keep her as a null read. And the point about Kirsche making a poor vote on SB is still valid. However I still have an overall town read on Kirsche. If you want to elaborate on these I will gladly do so. But I I don't have a lot of time right now so that will have to wait.

So I have literally no time but managed to skim the thread and I'm finding Randa really disagreeable, his NNR vote was hypocritical and the way he phrased it it looks like he found NNR being in the thread without posting scummy. The mayorspec isn't bad in and of itself but I don't really like the way he worded it all out. I also don't like this post:

kind of reads like an attempt to sow doubt or something similar.

##Unvote

##Vote Randa

I'll probably be back before phase end but not for long and I will be asleep at phase end unless my math skills are fail

waht's your own opinion on these players? this feels like egging vhaltz on without really doing anything yourself. in fact i get sleazy vibes from basically everything you've posted this phase

I'm going to address both of these at the same time. The reason why I asked about others is because it seemed, from point of view, that Vhaltz was focusing on Kay too much and I wanted to see why he did so when his reasoning could be applied to others.

So bear what do you think about Psychs post?

Prims what do you think about the growth of the SB wagon?

And SB what do you think about Shinori's most recent post?

And finally since you claim to be able to read Prims, Vhaltz what is your opinion of Prims relatively low activity?

[Randa]

For the record I do not mean Shinori's post asking for votals I mean #162.

[Kaoz]

Vhaltz (3): Kay, Green Poet, Mango Sentinel, SB, kirsche, Prims, Shinori, BBM

Eurykins (3): Prims, SB, kirsche, Prims, Randa, Mango Sentinel

SB (2): Eurykins, Shinori, Prims, Randa, kirsche

Kay (2): Vhaltz, Randa

Randa (2): Psych, dragonfang13

BBM (1): scorri

NekoRex (0): Mango Sentinel, Prims, Randa

MangoSentinel (0): Eurykins

Shinori (0): Kay, Vhaltz

scorri (0): kirsche, Vhaltz

Prims (0): Vhaltz, BBM, SB, Shinori, dragonfang13

Not Voting (3): 3-13 Garland, NekoRex, BBM

13 hours, 47 minutes until deadline.

[Elieson]

Effective immediately

Shin replaced NekoRex

[Vhaltz]

--Might not want to read this post unless you want to know why Randa is null for me in detail--

I liked Randa's post where he voted SB early in the game but that was pretty much it, he's been pretty null since. The only thoughts I have surrounding him are that I think Prims is being either lazy or biased when accusing Randa of being jumpy in reply to Poly when it's totally possible for a newer player like him to be town and react strongly against Poly's rage-filled attitude and personal-looking attacks. Veteran players may be used to Poly doing that kind of stuff but he probably isn't.

And yeah saying that pretty much meant taking shots at the case for no reason when I don't disagree with the part of the case wrt Randa seemingly posting in reaction to things instead of having initiative (which could I also see as just being a new player going "how do i mafia" and being unsure about what to do when people aren't addressing him).

There's scummy things Randa has done that don't stop being scummy in and of themselves, but as long as I can think of plausible town rationale/mindset they could be coming from I don't think it's worth voting, hence why it's not a town read anymore but not a scumread either.

[Vhaltz]

(which I could also see as just being a new player going "how do i mafia" and being unsure about what to do when people aren't addressing him).

It's probably more correct to say "although" than "which" in that context as well. I'm so good at half-native speaking.

[Shinori]

With it getting close to phase end if people don't vote SB and stuffs I'd swap to Vhaltz > Eury. Would like this SB thing to go through though.

Vhaltz:

Although wrt Shinori it irks me that the only thing he adds onto the SB case is "waffling" when he clearly states it as such himself and only spends one sentence on each nullread (one of which was the player he was currently voting and it makes sense that he'd explain why he's switching). It certainly doesn't give me the feeling that he's abusing waffles to pad his posts if that's what you were trying to imply, so why does the waffling make him scum?

I'm not entirely waffling as much SB was; at least in my eyes. I have a couple of high priority scum reads. From SB's post I felt that he didn't really have any REAL scum reads. And generally if I see someone waffling a lot when being fairly inactive-ish it is something that strikes me as off and logically not helpful as town.

Something like that! That's why it makes him scum!

[Vhaltz]

@Shinori

by

--the only thing he adds onto the SB case is "waffling"--

I meant

--the only thing he adds onto the SB case is "SB is waffling"--

I'm writing up another post but might have to go catch the train home before I finish it.

[MRDRHAWK]

From SB's post I felt that he didn't really have any REAL scum reads. And generally if I see someone waffling a lot when being fairly inactive-ish it is something that strikes me as off and logically not helpful as town.

Something like that! That's why it makes him scum!

That seems more anti-town than scummy, tbh. It does pose a problem to town if one of us is generally not being helpful, but I don't see that as being inherently scummy. This game does seem a fair bit harder to read than most right now.

Also Vhaltz, your point about Prims attacking Randa for his going after me are pretty much irrelevant, for two reasons:

1) Randa wasn't really reading me as scum; he was merely addressing my points in an (admittedly a bit angry) manner.

2) I'm actually not usually like that, as many players have pointed out. I am operating differently than usual, but I think part of that relates to my current disposition IRL (ftr, I'm very much NOT happy with my life right now).

I'm kind of surprised nobody saw my angry/semi-angry responses as a callback to Day 5 of Healer, though, when I yelled at Shinori for being an idiot and trying to lynch me when I was Cop. Like, I gave him no reasoning for why he was being an idiot aside from "WTF bro, I'm the fucking Cop". Luckily he wised up and we ended up winning that game, but seriously.

I'm still not sold on Vhaltz being town, though. I still feel like a lot of his posts are padding his content, and he hasn't really added a whole lot to discussion aside from being the subject of a great deal of it. In addition, I'm feeling a lot of Healer vibes from his post when he was maf and literally everyone but Elie had him as a town read. I kinda feel like this time people have wised up to his meta, and that's why his wagon never really died.

Eury should still try and defend herself, though, before phase end. That's kinda why I don't want to lynch her today over Vhaltz, but I guess if the wagon's gonna go down, I'll hop on for consolidation purposes.

[scorri]

Right, ok. So first off, I'm going to be gone starting in about two hours until... late tonight. I should hopefully be home for deadline, but I can't make promises.

Next,

##Unvote

Should've done that a while ago, kept forgetting and getting distracted by other things, sorry bout that.

Vhaltz suspicion that Kay must be scum voteparking kinda falls apart when you realize that Kay's just super inactive every game.

Right now it's looking like Vhaltz and Eury are the most likely to get lynched and I don't really get the case on Eury? Could someone explain that one to me? I may have missed something but yeah.

The more I read Vhatlz, the worse I start to feel about him. His votehop to me was bad for a couple of reasons and then his vote on Kay, at least I think, isn't especially great either since it essentially boils down to "your reasons for voting me are bad, must be scum" and then later adds something about voteparking when he'd been parked on her for almost as long with no real update to his case. Would probably be ok lynching here.

I need to read some more indepth, hopefully will be able to get a post up before I leave.

[Vhaltz]

I still say we lynch Kay. Her only contribution to the thread is putting down a policy lynch vote over talking about self-meta and lurking out the rest of the day until maybe deadline. Her only comments on other players are newbie chastising (which makes up over 50% of her only content post) and throwing criticism on scorri which took no effort since I had already worded that same thing myself, hell, she uses the same "noncommittal" term which I don't think has been significantly prevalent in the last few mafia games. It is literally a no effort post.

I'm also fine with lynching Psych, he demonstrated having read the thread by saying I'm trying to avoid being misunderstood (which is a character trait and I do this all the time regardless of alignment), yet came up with an entirely fake reason to vote Randa. I've seen him lurking around at least twice since his last post and there's nothing else to be seen from him. Feels like he's just trying to take advantage of the wagon on loud me to coast past D1 on minimal content.

Cuts, putting this out

[SB.]

From SB's post I felt that he didn't really have any REAL scum reads.

what

catching up now.

[Shinori]

IT came off to me that most of your reads were waffles and the person you voted you only had one line stated about.

And as it was pointed out by balc I believe: that's the most you really said about any one person.

I don't really classify a scumread as just one line that doesn't even really say that much as to why you think someone is scum.

[Randa]

@Scorri: From what I know of the Eury wagon she White-Knighted Vhaltz and people weren't satisfied with the explanation as to why she did It.

[SB.]

@Eury- I have some townreads but both times I've been mislynched, the wagon on me has started because of giving early townreads for reasons people didn't think were necessary. If you want me to give them I can, but a low amount of scumreads =/= not trying to progress the game.

If people do this they're dumb. Also I'm pretty sure I caught scum!Prims doing this to you in PToE so I don't think it would've been a bad thing? This quote just sort of bugs me besides that but I don't really know why?

There's also been like half the activity rate while I was sleeping than there was the other night, which leads me to think that somebody is likely to be voteparking scum coasting past midD1 and directly into deadline. Kay fits the voteparking profile and there's scum intent to be had by sitting there (reinforcing her case on me would mean exposing herself to criticism at an important D1 juncture before consolidation) so I'm currently feeling pretty good about my Kay case/vote.

This doesn't feel right to me. You probably don't know Kay's meta or anything, but it feels like you're just pulling another reason out to keep your vote down on Kay considering she hadn't posted and as a result physically couldn't change her vote. It feels like you're pulling the voteparking scum comment out of nowhere, it just seems kind of arbitrary like looking for scum on the wagon of a mislynch just because "there has to be one!"

SB, what do you think of: "It shouldn't take someone to prod you to vote for you to vote" as I feel like you're getting sidetracked with being annoyed that people think Green is in an undefendable position while ignoring why people think Green is in an undefendable position. I'm willing to let Green slide on this due to being relatively new, but I don't see the scumminess in the logic itself.

I think it's slightly scummy, but it could be just newbie stuff so I'm not really fussed about him right now.

I can't really get a read from Poly but I kinda dislike some of the criticism on him. I get the feeling that SB said that Poly's posts are organised(well, fomulaic) so he's not playing to his town meta and thus is kinda scummy, which is bad metagaming. Unless you feel like the organisation is forced, but then why?

dislike Poly's style because I dunno, it feels kind of forced in a way and it feels almost like he's being self-conscious with the change when town!Poly has no reason to do so. Admittedly it's a weak read, apart from the things that I specifically pointed out which I disliked, but I'm not actually pushing it as a solid thing just yet until I see more of it.

@Shinori vote: I explained how I felt on Vhaltz because I was kind of switching my vote away from him? I mentioned scorri because a few people were discussing her. I also reacted the way I did to the activity thing because I've been accused of it as town before and it annoys me because there's physically nothing I can do about it. I'm pretty sure I've done this in town games before too (CY'OR maybe? idr) if you want to play the meta card. And I'm happy with my Eury vote so?

I'm kind of surprised nobody saw my angry/semi-angry responses as a callback to Day 5 of Healer, though, when I yelled at Shinori for being an idiot and trying to lynch me when I was Cop. Like, I gave him no reasoning for why he was being an idiot aside from "WTF bro, I'm the fucking Cop". Luckily he wised up and we ended up winning that game, but seriously.

I'm still not sold on Vhaltz being town, though. I still feel like a lot of his posts are padding his content, and he hasn't really added a whole lot to discussion aside from being the subject of a great deal of it. In addition, I'm feeling a lot of Healer vibes from his post when he was maf and literally everyone but Elie had him as a town read. I kinda feel like this time people have wised up to his meta, and that's why his wagon never really died.

Eury should still try and defend herself, though, before phase end. That's kinda why I don't want to lynch her today over Vhaltz, but I guess if the wagon's gonna go down, I'll hop on for consolidation purposes.

This part of Poly's last post is actually really bad. The self-meta feels really forced like he's trying to force the idea of him being town rather than just shrugging off what were basically a couple of people saying his posts were weird. The Vhaltz meta also seems incredibly forced and is completely unexplained, and considering you've literally played one day with town!Vhaltz, of course you'll be reminded of the only other game you've played with him. The "people wising up to his meta" part is also looks like it's just justifying the situation to fit your case. I also don't like how you say you don't want to lynch Eury but don't actually say what you think of her.

##Unvote

##Vote: Polydeuces

Would switch back to Eury for consolidation.

[Eurykins]

Dentist appointments suck.

If you don't vote, you get people yelling at you for it. If you do vote, you get called out for appeasement. You're basically calling him scummy for being in a situation that he can't look good in.

1. It depends on why you're not voting. Is it because they don't have solid reads/logic to back themselves up, or are they hesitating for another reason? People cannot yell at you validly if you're refraining from voting someone because you don't believe they warrant said vote on them. Simple logic.

2. If/when you do vote, you do it on your own terms. You don't vote because someone told you to- you do it because you feel like it's where you want to place you vote at. If you mindlessly sheep others and don't even care to put your own thoughts and reasons to why you're doing something, then you may as well be a puppet to whoever's telling you to vote for person X. As his own response/voting went down as:

From what I've seen of other SF players using it, I gathered that FoS is a sort of middle ground between simply expressing a half-hearted suspicion and voting. That's what I'd been feeling regarding Vhaltz at the time of writing, since I had no conviction for his wagon other than what people had already brought up about his indecision and overreaction.

If FoS has no tangible weight, though, then sure - I'll put my vote where my mouth is.

From what I'm looking at in his response, he felt that Vhaltz was not worth voting for as of yet. There was much uncertainty with voting him, but as a result of being prodded/prompted to vote, and feeling the obligations TO do so, he did. That is what I do not care for. He didn't vote because he felt like Vhaltz deserved to get voted, but because he felt pressured to. Progress is one thing; vote manipulation is another altogether.

3. He has every opportunity TO look fine with his vote, so long as he feels his vote is supported by decent logic and reason. There was no reason to vote 'under pressure' or in that manner, as though to make it seem as though he was doing it simply to appease the rest of us. It's not, by any means, a lose-lose situation as you make it out to be.

(PS. Not bothering quoting everything, but will put WRT to keep the thoughts/replies on target as much as I can.)

WRT the tunneling: How is it dumb to state plainly that the game was not progressing much at all when over 3/4 of the people actively posting were bulldozing a single person? Guilty or not, once a case is formed, GOOD JOB. Now move on to keep looking. A case isn't going to disappear on a whim (whether it is disproved through posting/actions later is debatable), and even if a wagon is dropped, people will still know and remember/recall it later. It's pretty much inevitable. So, as long as those who find merit in the case stick with it and continue supporting it, I find that more progress to the thread would be made in focusing on everyone else as well, as opposed to just mining out one cavern and ignoring the rest of the tunnels. (And honestly, tunneling that much on one person ED1 also makes it easier for the scum to blend in and, even if he flipped scum, those who were supporting the wagon still get brownie points from supporting the single-target wagon from the start. Ezpz townie brownie points thar.

WRT the card/deck idea: It just sat ill with me that you'd be that reckless with it, SB. You don't seem the type to needlessly out information without warrant, and the uncharacteristically rash idea being tossed out is what bothers me more than the idea itself.

WRT the sheeping: I admit, I actually overlooked that post/comment about openly sheeping, so I stand corrected. Though, as stated before, Prims is prims, and he's openly (even this game) has opted to have himself sheeped (even if it was just RVS shinanegans) and has sheeped commonly before. So in his case, it doesn't affect my read on him as much as others.

@Eury- I have some townreads but both times I've been mislynched, the wagon on me has started because of giving early townreads for reasons people didn't think were necessary. If you want me to give them I can, but a low amount of scumreads =/= not trying to progress the game.

1. Never specifically asked for townreads, but if you have any, shoot.

2. Once bitten, twice shy? C'mon, BBM. You can do better than that.

3. Low amount of scumreads isn't bad. But at the point that I stated that you were purely on Vhaltz, it was because you were literally only talking about him by that point and time. You were so unnaturally narrowed on his case, as opposed to dropping your thoughts/opinions on him, as well as on others in the thread. That is what's been sticking out to me in regards to what content you had down.

Doing this would have only affirmed what Kay had been saying against me. Continuing not to vote wouldn't really have contributed to progressing the game or pressuring people into offering more thoughts. This "don't vote, while not offering scumreads" passivity is somewhat odd to me.

1. Mafia is not a game of appeasement. Anything/everything you say and do should be of your own volition and ultimately reflect what you believe/hold to be true and otherwise reasonable.

2. Also said nothing of the sort in the latter statement. Kinda don't care for the misrep of my own comments, thanks. All I said, quite simply, was that you should NOT vote if it's done in the manner to satisfy someone else. If YOU do not think that a vote has its merit, then don't make it. Simple as that. It's not stagnating the gameplay at all, so long as you progress with your thoughts/contributions. But if you always let people bully you into "Hinthintnudgenudgekickkick"ing you into voting, then whose vote are you really making- yours, or another one in their favor?

[This post is feeling super wally, so will compose another to finish some thoughts/responses.]

[Elieson]

Just under 12 hours left

[Eurykins]

Well, I'll use your defence against you then: at the time, he felt that the only meaningful there was to talk about was Vhaltz and now he hasn't had a chance to post since. Why is this scummy, but you weren't scummy?

To me, it looked worse on him because Vhaltz was by far the easiest wagon that's started this day phase. And the sad part was that the majority of the people here were in on the hype, and in so doing, were pretty much ignoring the rest of the players in the game (at the time that I posted). The fact that no one even bothered commenting on that fact, and how the others easily went into the flow of the wagoning/sheeping of the case just screamed "easy wagon, easy mislynch" to me. Maybe I'm wrong in my gut feeling on him thus far, but the hyper-narrowed vision that was expressed in ED1 was crippling the game overall, I felt, which is why I posted my first real post in regards to what I was seeing playing out.

Because he brainfarted? Just because SB is good doesn't mean he couldn't make mistakes. Again, if you think Green Poet is being super lazy and had really weak reasoning then why not vote her instead of someone who may have just formulated a bad plan after being put in a setup which is unfamiliar territory?

Everyone makes mistakes, but it's a matter of degree. Perhaps I'm reaching with me not trusting him to have made such a careless move as town!SB, but I've known him to be generally a very good and careful player as a whole. Outing information unnecessarily felt like something very unlike him and something that potentially detrimental to town didn't feel like a risk he'd normally be willing to take/put out there.

Blah... stupid gums are bleeding (best dentists NA = stabbing the gums repeatedly with cleaning tools, and then claiming the patient just didn't brush well enough to not have bleeding gums.), will be re-reading through the last few pages that I've missed out on, but will take a little time to reply again.

[Vhaltz]

Wow.

You guys are never happy. You are constantly asking me a gazillion questions about every single read, call me scummy whenever I'm not answering some question and when I answer them then I'm padding content because my explanations outweigh my scumhunting content which is NATURAL considering that almost all of the game has something to complain about or to ask wrt me. I'm also scum apparently for being active as a consequence of having so many things to answer. Everything is a scumtell, fucking yay.

There's no way I can fix anything if people are absolutely consumed by confirmation bias.

I called Kay out for parking because:

1) I like D1 wagon-building analysis as a result of wanting to be able to catch scum D1, and coasting through this part of the phase is common for scum. Hell if I know what her post frequency meta is out of one game where I only saw her play D1 with a protection role.

2) I didn't find anybody else to be more likely to be scum at that point, nor now, and I wanted to push the case further with the little I had. I found most active posters to be some degree of town, and those that I didn't find town I lined up the scummy things they did in my head and found possible townie motivation behind them. Psych and Kay are the only two I've found doing things that are pro-scum and I don't see town doing. See: Poly and Randa.

I'm amazed that scorri feels the need to point out my lack of a followup on Kay when there have been no posts by Kay since I made it and I actually DID follow it up with the votepark callout, whether it is invalidated by meta or not doesn't change the fact that I DID follow up on it.

Suddenly coming up with "his votehop on me was bad for several reasons" as one of her only reasons to suspect me is terrible because:

1) she clearly understood my case back when it happened and admitted to being at fault.

2) she is actively avoiding giving reasons why it is bad. One should explain why things are scummy and not bad, but scorri is avoiding giving reasons for anything altogether.

Not to mention that there was no excuse for that last post to not include a vote on me unless she doesn't want to be associated with my flip.

I want to vote scorri but I realize that this is probably frustration speaking so I'm holding it until I cool my head a little.

[Psych]

Psych's meta is that he reads the thread by ctrl+fing the word "Psych"

also he claimed limited access so I'm not really sure what to think, would like an updated post from him.

It'd be bad to say this is true, but admittedly that's like 30% how I play mafia

@Poly: I don't have thoughts about any Vhaltz voters I haven't already talked about. As is I find Vhaltz a headache to read because there's simultaneously some Townie Shit and some Scummy Shit and I'm inclined to just see if he gets shot at night or not. Want to keep my eye on BBM and Kay though.

Biggest prims crumb I ever saw, he's vig guys

I still say we lynch Kay. Her only contribution to the thread is putting down a policy lynch vote over talking about self-meta and lurking out the rest of the day until maybe deadline. Her only comments on other players are newbie chastising (which makes up over 50% of her only content post) and throwing criticism on scorri which took no effort since I had already worded that same thing myself, hell, she uses the same "noncommittal" term which I don't think has been significantly prevalent in the last few mafia games. It is literally a no effort post.

I'm also fine with lynching Psych, he demonstrated having read the thread by saying I'm trying to avoid being misunderstood (which is a character trait and I do this all the time regardless of alignment), yet came up with an entirely fake reason to vote Randa. I've seen him lurking around at least twice since his last post and there's nothing else to be seen from him. Feels like he's just trying to take advantage of the wagon on loud me to coast past D1 on minimal content.

Cuts, putting this out

Apparently i'm still in thread if i leave it up on my phone in the background. Also I didn't vote you so not really sure how that's me coasting on a bandwagon

Don't put words in my mouth. Go read post 128. I said that I would still be willing to share the information. At no point have I said otherwise. I said I know why others don't want to, but I am still willing to share that information.

And just a quick question to poly. What else would you have me post on? I was sleeping for the majority of the discussion about Vhaltz and when I woke up he was in L-2 while I'm suspicious of a mayor in this setup. And apparently I need to go fix my votal chart.

I know you said you were still up for doing it, but it was basically a reaction test to see town opinions on doing so. You almost immediately withdrew the idea as soon as someone was opposed, yet said you would still do it, as if that would earn you credit if we do it later one. That's pretty much not having a strong opinion and just trying to please people so you don't looking scummy later on if we have to claim cards.

For the record I am sick right now. I slept for nearly 13 hours. I was working on my post when I was prodded.
I can't remember if I already stated this but one of the major reasons that I don't like Kay right now is making Green Poet. Seems like hurrying a lynch before we even looked into to anybody else yet. Which seems Anti-Town to me.

And in my honest opinion my scum ranks go:
Neko
Kay
Vhaltz
Psych
Prims

I prodded Neko about 20 hours ago. Still have seen any content from him. He said he's post today hasn't and its getting on my nerves.
The issue that I have with Prims is that he hasn't really been doing much since the votes came off of him. And aside from that he is like SB in my mind.
Vhaltz I'm still waffling on. I see and understand the cases made against him. However they aren't something I would act on right now.
And Psych irks me because he seems like he's trying make a case where there isn't one. And to get that he is using untrue information.

This is what we call OMGUS, since i'm pretty sure i'm not pulling these quotes out of my ass

I haven't commented on the Eury thing so far because I can understand the points given against her but disagree that they necessarily make her scum. Pretty much agree with Shinori here.

Although wrt Shinori it irks me that the only thing he adds onto the SB case is "waffling" when he clearly states it as such himself and only spends one sentence on each nullread (one of which was the player he was currently voting and it makes sense that he'd explain why he's switching). It certainly doesn't give me the feeling that he's abusing waffles to pad his posts if that's what you were trying to imply, so why does the waffling make him scum?

Also missed this yesterday

##FoS: Psych

His Randa vote is based entirely on the false claim that he jump-switched his opinion wrt SB's suggestion, painting it as a completely unexplained 180º. There's like no logical explanation for town to do this (unless they're not really playing the game, but his side-comment on me makes me feel like he was reading alright). Is there some Psych meta thing I'm missing?

There's also been like half the activity rate while I was sleeping than there was the other night, which leads me to think that somebody is likely to be voteparking scum coasting past midD1 and directly into deadline. Kay fits the voteparking profile and there's scum intent to be had by sitting there (reinforcing her case on me would mean exposing herself to criticism at an important D1 juncture before consolidation) so I'm currently feeling pretty good about my Kay case/vote.

Speaking of deadline, it happens at like 6-7 AM my time and it's impossible for me to be around then, I'll stick around until 1:00-1:30 AM but not much longer than that.

Kay > Psych >> Poly (would lynch over null/townreads but don't think he's very likely to be scum atm, so uninterested otherwise) > rest > Eury/SB >> kirsche.

Just for the record, that's my point. There is no logical reason for town to pull their opinion that quickly unless they just wanted to make it seem like they were trying to do something to get quick info and fit in, which scum wants.

[Randa]

Opinions about everybody right now. My lynch preference is Psych but I'm 99% sure that a wagon won't be going by the end of the phase. However I feel like I'm in the same position with Kay right now so I'm gonna Unvote. I will probably wind up going with the wagon I most agree with in the next two or three hours.

##Unvote

Would like to lynch:

Psych: Weak vote with untrue information as its backing. In the same post though he shows some minor understanding of the situation so skimming might be a reason. Would like to hear who else he thinks is scum.

Willing to Lynch:

Kay: Didn't like the vote it seemed a bit forced and also seemed to pressure GP into voting Vhaltz. Would like to see her at least acknowledge some of the questions.

Prims: Doesn't really seem to have any solid reads on anything has made small notes about everybody but hasn't really been pushing anybody except for Eurykins. This is probably closer to a null than an actual scum read but I would like to hear who else he thinks is scum.

Might lynch:

Vhaltz: Really defensive about his votes and IMO puts too much weight on Meta. Also put out some weak votes on Shinori and Scori. Mostly a Null with slight scum lean.

Green Poet: A very wishy washy vote on Vhaltz. Also a complete focus on Vhaltz not even mentioning anybody else. Also seems unnecessarily hesitant to actually vote.

SB: Seemed very defensive of green poet. Hasn't really shown any opinions other than Eurykins. Aside from that all he's done is show Vhaltz the games in which Poly was scum. I don't agree with lynching him just because people don't like his idea.

Would not be comfortable lynching:

Garland: Would actually like to see a post before I vote against him. Also has the best ISO.

Poly: Too much of the case against him is based off of meta. But he does seem to be acting weird so I get a very mixed read.

Scorri: Seems like she's just trying to fly under the radar. A null read if any read. Doesn't feel right but I'm not sure there's a case to be made here.

Bear: Don't have a lot to go off of. Haven't been impressed but not really getting a scum read.

Eury: I still don't agree with the wagon against them.

Shinori: I don't have a problem with Shinori and don't see anything which makes me suspicious

Kirsche: I feel pretty confident he's town. Can explain if people want me to.

Wouldn't Lynch

Shin:He just switched in not gonna lynch him right away.

Like I'm gonna lynch myself:

Randa: Just look at the line above my name.

Sorry if I forgot anybody.

[Psych]

Wow.

You guys are never happy. You are constantly asking me a gazillion questions about every single read, call me scummy whenever I'm not answering some question and when I answer them then I'm padding content because my explanations outweigh my scumhunting content which is NATURAL considering that almost all of the game has something to complain about or to ask wrt me. I'm also scum apparently for being active as a consequence of having so many things to answer. Everything is a scumtell, fucking yay.

There's no way I can fix anything if people are absolutely consumed by confirmation bias.

I called Kay out for parking because:

1) I like D1 wagon-building analysis as a result of wanting to be able to catch scum D1, and coasting through this part of the phase is common for scum. Hell if I know what her post frequency meta is out of one game where I only saw her play D1 with a protection role.

2) I didn't find anybody else to be more likely to be scum at that point, nor now, and I wanted to push the case further with the little I had. I found most active posters to be some degree of town, and those that I didn't find town I lined up the scummy things they did in my head and found possible townie motivation behind them. Psych and Kay are the only two I've found doing things that are pro-scum and I don't see town doing. See: Poly and Randa.

I'm amazed that scorri feels the need to point out my lack of a followup on Kay when there have been no posts by Kay since I made it and I actually DID follow it up with the votepark callout, whether it is invalidated by meta or not doesn't change the fact that I DID follow up on it.

Suddenly coming up with "his votehop on me was bad for several reasons" as one of her only reasons to suspect me is terrible because:

1) she clearly understood my case back when it happened and admitted to being at fault.

2) she is actively avoiding giving reasons why it is bad. One should explain why things are scummy and not bad, but scorri is avoiding giving reasons for anything altogether.

Not to mention that there was no excuse for that last post to not include a vote on me unless she doesn't want to be associated with my flip.

I want to vote scorri but I realize that this is probably frustration speaking so I'm holding it until I cool my head a little.

What did I do that's pro scum? I'm not trying to get an easy vote on the bandwagon, i'm not voting you, i'm not doing anything detrimental to the town, and i'm certainly not trying to throw out easy ways to get info yet repealing my stance while still being open for later "incase anyone else wants to share cards"

Kay is basically a more active Rein which is still nothing so i'm not really surprised by her activity. She usually doesn't respond much until she gets a couple votes

[Randa]

I'm reworking my Psych segment because he posted an I'm gonna look at it. So in the mean time everything else is still my opinion.