Tyne-Wear Mafia - Where Are They Now? Special Bonus 2016 Update

[charlie_]

I asked Furet about that rule ED1 because I thought it was a typo and it turns out that it was just referring to them having fake nameclaims.

Not knowing that might be a towntell actually? I'm kinda unsure now.

[eclipse]

clipsey stayed up late just to do this votals

Paperblade (1) - Prims

Randa (8) - BBM, Cam, Shin, Juliette, Marth, Poly, FFM, SB

SB (4) - Paperblade, Weapons, Randa, Strawman

Shin (2) - Kirsche, Rapier

Weapons (1) - Blitz

No vote (4) - Belisarius, scorri, Refa, Bearface

23.5 hours remain!

[BBM]

fuck I got up at 5 am for a 6 am deadline just to see that phase would have ended at 4 am if there hadn't been an extension; good thing there was one

FFM's Randa vote is kind of terrible- he lists a bunch of reasons for why Randa isn't scum and then votes him because he "went back" on the Paper turbowagon idea even though really he was just voting a big wagon for consolidation.

@SB- I was really tired and was considering the possibility of scum Goon since that's been a thing for the last few vanilla claims. Also I thought there wasn't going to be an extension and I didn't think there was time for another lynch.

DECIDED that scum Goon is probably not actually a thing for a 20p game and I don't think Randa would claim it unless to WIFOM me specifically? Also the last few votes are kind of bad and seem to be purely for consolation except we got a bunch more hours...

##Unvote, ##Vote: Paperblade

I know I haven't actually said much about Paper but idk I think he's scum. His tone doesn't feel right; even though he's generally more unsure D1 his posts feel like they're even moreso than normal. Also he admitted that for his SB vote he was talking about 2 people but then never changed it and his reason for voting is bad too- like people said, how is attempting to play badly on purpose indicative of scum? Dunno if people really want to lynch Paper but I at least want him to come back and expand if nothing else.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

I reread Randa/Shin/SB.

Randa - My gut says deftown, but the point that he's just not trying to scumhunt is REALLY valid and I don't like all the WIFOMing. I'm not going to vote Randa, but I'm not really going to stop a lynch either.

Shin - I don't get why he is a leading wagon. His posts are well thought out, which is contrary to what I recall the case(s) on him saying. Why is he a leading wagon? Also I think his usual tone and things like using exclamation points make him sound scummy.

SB - I'm less happy about this, but I think there is enough scum behavior that I still like this vote. A small large thing, but there was one post in particular where he said "I'll be honest blah blah blah," which by high school psychology analysis is a slip that he is not normally feeling honest. Quote wall would help my case, but nah.

Also, I'm ignoring a lot of things directed my way cause I'm not rereading and have no time for it, so if you really want me to answer, Moo at me.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

TURBO PAPER WAGON ##Unvote, ##Vote: Paperblade

[charlie_]

@Weapons: The "I'll be honest" thing is because I don't normally like showing weakness as town because I want people to sheep me, but I don't really have the confidence for that here. Also, do you actually think Paper is scummier than me or are you just going along with it?

BBM's explanation is fine considering it seems to be in line with how he froze up near deadline on the day Shin got lynched in Almost OC. I'm okay with a Paper lynch but feel like he'd be a better vig shot just due to activity levels? I should probably actually reread rather than just going through ISOs.

[charlie_]

(I wouldn't say a goon is unlikely though considering we have a flipped one in the op?)

[FrostyFireMage]

It'd be nice if people would stop trashing my reads. <_<

[Randa]

Hard to read Randa. He's been one of the most active players despite having the largest wagon on him (I think he would be less active if he was trying to avoid getting lynched as scum - although that's mostly me assuming) and advocates a Paper turbolynch despite being likely to be lynched himself (if he wanted to avoid getting lynched today he would vote for one of the other wagons - what would he have to gain from suggesting an unexpected move like voting Paper?).

...But then later he goes back on his Paper vote in order to go after another large wagon pretty much doing a 180 on his statement seemingly because his Paper ploy fell flat. That's a scummy move right there. Mayhaps he is frantic scum?

Shin is hard to read too but that's because Shin. The sudden turn around with Rapier is kinda weird but jumpy Shin is jumpy, plus I'm questioning the benefit of doing such a thing as scum because all he's doing is drawing attention to himself. His only reads were on Weapons/Rapier for a while but admittedly the game has just started and there's really not much activity. How he dismissed Rapier's point as "lol kneejerk" and the whole "if I were scum I would have done that instead" thing feels self-conscious (if that makes sense) but I still think Randa's scummier.

Feeling better about SB now that he's been posted more. His wariness of Refa doesn't really sound like scummy behavior due to it being a pretty odd case to follow up with.

##Unvote

##Vote: Randa

I woke up early and then no phase end after all. I HOPE YOU'RE ALL HAPPY.

Randa proposing a turbolynch after last game seems really questionnable to me and really the suspicion is way too weak to drive a lynch based on it. His hope onto me because it's the most likely to get a lynch is also basically distancing himself from playing any part in it and a questionable decision at best considering I was the wagon with the least votes. I'm null on the vanilla claim at this stage, but I'm kinda curious as to why BBM's reaction to the vanilla claim seems less pronounced than usual?

@Weapons: I did address the votes on me as well as I could. Two of them are inactive and one of them is you, who's kind of hard to defend against based on style. Strawman and Randa only voted after I went asleep. I can kind of see what you mean on effort levels but there's a lot of noise in this thread that just doesn't give me anything readswise and it's kind of screwing with me.

I'm kinda eh on Prims atm? I feel like the way he goes about his Randa read is kind of awkward considering how he becomes indifferent to the lynch and I'm kinda confused why he didn't try and push an actual counterwagon to save his townread instead of Paperblade? It just seems kinda odd to me, even if you try and justify it with it being optimal play or w/e.

Refa looks a bit better than he did earlier, he feels generally more involved in the game and motivated to make things happen. Not suspicious of the slot anymore. FFM's content is okay now but I'd like to see if his only reads are on the major wagons or if that's just what he went to look at first.

##Unvote##Vote: Randa

I feel better on this than with Shin now I guess.

I already stated why I vote SB and stopped voting paper, if we did not receive an extension and people who were completely inactive didn't suddenly appear, it would be the most likely to wagon to actually 11 votes, based on who was on what wagon at the time. I did/do not plan to no lynch day 1 so I voted with what I believed would actually get us a lynch.

okay, starting things up and I must say catching up is a pain (and forget rereading, reading itself is a pain)

Starting up with

@Cam

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=49064&view=findpost&p=3255441

who was this post aimed at? (me or Randa?)

@Marth, I have no problems with you calling my case on Weapons "easy", cause tbh, I am not smart enough to build a case that isn't easy, but how exactly do you call it "forced"?

About Randa,

in this game, Randa started off doing the exacts same thing he did in Reclass. I don't like how he had to be called out to post, but then again, after he started posting, it seemed to me like "he finally realized how to play" which can go for either alignment(note: I do not agree with Prims saying something like Randa is a townie who tripped before starting optimal play), so, I started null reading him instead of scum reading him. But after what BBM pointed out, I would have to agree with BBM that Randa's overall play hasn't really been much intended to find scum. (I am pretty much agreeing with all scummy stuff said about him.) Meta wise speaking, Randa's play looks like the complete opposite of what he did in Reclass (but it started being that way after the attacks on him) and it kinda seems to me like he intentionally changed his play to get away with it this time more than his play changed because of change in alignment. However, I do agree with Strawman that I have scumread him multiple times when he was a townie, so, it can be the same for Randa, but I am still more inclined to think Randa is scum.

I thought I was playing the exact same way as in reclass. Also to people saying I, not trying to find scum, I suck at day 1. I'm not good at hunting without a flip and some associative reads to work with.

These Randa votes are seriously making me reconsider, so I reread a bit.

And this is really throwing me off. On one hand, the mechanics (at least the OP) does not state scum has fake claims. On the other, if scum have claims, why claim vanilla?

9. Looking up names/roles will probably not avail you - not every player in the Sunderland's faction is with them at this time, July 2014, and the scum all have Sunderland-aligned aliases.

I assumed that meant they had full fake claims not just fake names.

fuck I got up at 5 am for a 6 am deadline just to see that phase would have ended at 4 am if there hadn't been an extension; good thing there was one

FFM's Randa vote is kind of terrible- he lists a bunch of reasons for why Randa isn't scum and then votes him because he "went back" on the Paper turbowagon idea even though really he was just voting a big wagon for consolidation.

@SB- I was really tired and was considering the possibility of scum Goon since that's been a thing for the last few vanilla claims. Also I thought there wasn't going to be an extension and I didn't think there was time for another lynch.

DECIDED that scum Goon is probably not actually a thing for a 20p game and I don't think Randa would claim it unless to WIFOM me specifically? Also the last few votes are kind of bad and seem to be purely for consolation except we got a bunch more hours...

##Unvote, ##Vote: Paperblade

I know I haven't actually said much about Paper but idk I think he's scum. His tone doesn't feel right; even though he's generally more unsure D1 his posts feel like they're even moreso than normal. Also he admitted that for his SB vote he was talking about 2 people but then never changed it and his reason for voting is bad too- like people said, how is attempting to play badly on purpose indicative of scum? Dunno if people really want to lynch Paper but I at least want him to come back and expand if nothing else.

I actually would do that just to mess with you. But I'm not scum so I can't.

Also Beli did you soft mayor? When you voted it would've been 9 of 11 or L-2, but you said L-1 which would indicate 10 of 11.

[Paperblade]

I had a bad couple of past days sorry gaiz also my sleep schedule is ruined

This Randa wagon is fucking awful, it's basically people saying he's not living up to their expectations, then him getting more votes when his content looks bad when under pressure? SB's vote is especially bad since his reason for jumping on it was revealed to be a joke (although to be fair I'd be voting Randa right now if he was serious). This is apparently because Randa said the mafia have safeclaims when Furet has only confirmed they have name safeclaims?

BBM why do you think mafia goon is out of the question?

I feel like Rapier is just talking about whatever wagon is going on with little regard for anything else

StSS doesn't seem to have any conviction but might just be because he's rusty (and I think he might have been like this anyway?)

Why does it seem like Cam only shows up to defend me?

I probably won't be back for a while but should be back before deadline

[Paperblade]

Cam's thing is actually really weird because earlier he was neutral on me then suddenly has decided I'm town and is opposing a turbo?

going to sleep for real now

[Paperblade]

but basically I have the sickest reads get the fuck at me

[riariadne]

but are they the fully sickest reads

actual post incoming, thanks Juliette.

[Strawman]

@Strawman, if you could lynch someone of your choice, who would it be and why?

Poly. I like literally none of his votes or contributions.

Also, my conviction rests in the fact that we shouldn't lynch Randa.

[Strawman]

Also, I'm about to be gone for a lot of the remaining time. I should be back before phase end though. (going to the aquarium)

[charlie_]

@Paper, I didn't realize it was a joke since i missed the post and people had expressed interest in lynching you. His post on reasons to lynch you seemed serious to me too apart from the fact it never lands scum. Reading right after waking up is op or something. I was suspicious of him before that though anyway.

I don't really like Cam now. It feels like he's kind of uninvolved (and I'm aware he's busy, but not in the early part of the game) and I remember him having a way stronger start in Reclass and being more active and aggressive with his questioning, but here all it amounts to is "I wouldn't rule him out"? One example is where he says "people who are fixated on rapier's role are dumb and/or scum because he was clearly joking and it shouldn't matter to town" but never tries to look at the people he's accusing? His follow-up is really flimsy too, as it feels like he doesn't do anything but talk about events surrounding Weapons' wagon and Rapier's claim, and even then his opinion on FFM is really short and kind of confusing? Why is him almost voting Weapons but then not worse than the people who went onto Weapons' wagon?

I'm not really sure why I thought FFM was better actually. His votes this game have seemed opportunistic to me in a way, his vote on me only came after Paper expressed a very similar suspicion and his read on Randa is a waffly mess and he only ends up suggesting like, one reason Randa is actually scummy and the rest are reasons for town!Randa instead. It's also a similar story with his Shin read, so I don't really like that either. I think someone said something about FFM being town because he goes with the flow much more as scum but that feels like what he's been doing here to me.

I think I feel better about Randa. I didn't realize before but his vanilla claim was unprovoked (so it wasn't like he didn't have time to come up with a better claim) so it feels more legit. The scum having full fakeclaims instead of just namefakes seems like a towntell as well to me and I think at one point he brought up how he was acting similar to Reclass and I don't think he would bring that up if he was trying his hardest to avoid a lynch?

##Unvote

##Vote: Cam

Don't think this'll take off but I can change it up later anyway. I'm kind of unsure on Paper and want to see what his content is like when he comes back since I remember thinking his D1 was weak in Big NOCers when he was town and idk how much time is affecting his play, although I'm kinda questioning that based on him being around to do stuff in EiMM but not really weighing in here much until earlier.

It'd be cool is Poly explained his reads on the wagons more and said why Rapier's reactions were weird to him earlier. He takes note of it but then never brought it up again.

[Shin]

I do see what SB's saying, Cam does appear uncommitted this game, although I understand the latter parts are due to travel. His Randa vote was actually pretty good, but there's been very little commentary about the rest of the game. Whilst it's reassuring there's no waffle, it doesn't really seem like Cam's particularly interested in happenings, Whilst this kinda bothers me, I'm still fairly null on Cam and his circumstances seem to hint he'd be more active otherwise. Paper's surprisingly relaxed about Cam's push on him, but I'll see how that goes.

Bellysaurus Rex (intentionally misspelled but I thought it'd look hilarious) hasn't really existed. Their vote seems to be passing comments on all the leading wagons, then deciding to go with one for some reason. I get a feeling that it's showing some sort of distant commitment in case something goes awry. Although lack of content too pro. I dunno, over the other inactives they bothered me. scorri's on holiday, which seems legit enough, kirsche has two posts but they're both pretty solid content, Romeo and Juliette have made a little progress now they're a hydra, and DA BEAR seems to be a little unwell - I see no reason to post that you're sick unless it actually gets in the way of posting.

I'm still happy with Randa being lynched. I have no reason why whilst making a case to turbo Paper, which I think is a bad idea, it's best not for the "why should I not do this" part to be more convincing than the "why I should do this" part. He doesn't like the wagons and then votes SB?

About the fakeclaims. I assumed it was because Furet made this game ages ago and the teams have changed since then. I don't know really, it's just what came to mind because FOOTBALL.

[charlie_]

Randa later said his turbolynch suggestion was a joke Shin, in case you missed it.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

SB with question marks is like Shin with exclamation points, --------------------. I'm not the biggest fan of any of the 3 wagons, and would like to live in a world where Day 1 has multiple on/off wagons before settling on the right one.

I find it really suspicious how Paper is not around for scheduled phase end/extension pile, but shows up when somewhat pinged.

Will be willing to wagon any inactive/less actives: Paper, Bear, kirsche, Beli, scorri, Rein, prims, and also Cam/FFM/Poly (would read these). That's a lot of players.

[charlie_]

Do you have a priority in which you'd lynch Weapons? I can't really tell beyond your Paper vote.

[charlie_]

Also Shin: do you have an actual read on Paper? It feels kind of like you're dodging around that.

[Zkirsche]

he looks like he cares about town and is trying hence being spammy

Again, Randa did the same in Reclass. I think he's one of the top posters there.

I haven't seen anything that is inherently scummy to me.

Do you think any of them are town or did your ISOing yield nothing?

Also, how is asking for a massclaim not rolefishing? The consequences of it is to learn all the roles in the game (excluding, of course, fakeclaims), so yes, I can see a connectivity between rolefishing and asking for a massclaim.

Rolefishing is fishing for a specific role, asking for a massclaim to find the doc or something just doesn't happen. Ever. Don't you think it's possible that Weapons really does believe that setups are breakable but breaking it like that isn't fun?

It's true scum like to be subtle and not so forward, but you're forgetting that not everyone plays profissionally like that.

Well weapons does play like that. The request for a week long day one should indicate that.

#300 tells us that Rapier is still town.

Randa's play looks like the complete opposite of what he did in Reclass

What? As soon as SB and me pushed our cases on him in Reclass he started posting more and doing stuff? All these people saying "Randa is posting more, he must be town!" are just wrong (looking at you Prims/Blitz/FFM(kinda)). I can accept the vanilla towntell and the stuff on fakeclaims. I think there are better targets myself, mostly due to the vanilla claim and how I don't think he'd admit that he's playing the same as in reclass.

Blitz might be scum because despite the terrible cases, unlike reclass he fails to come to any significant conclusion (he seems very unsure that Randa is scum and that seems to be one of his stronger reads) and seems to have little conviction in anything.

#360 is a better post which makes me happier with Paper.

Don't think Sb is particularly scummy. I should probably read the cases on him.

Bellysaurus Rex (intentionally misspelled but I thought it'd look hilarious) hasn't really existed. Their vote seems to be passing comments on all the leading wagons, then deciding to go with one for some reason. I get a feeling that it's showing some sort of distant commitment in case something goes awry. Although lack of content too pro. I dunno, over the other inactives they bothered me. scorri's on holiday, which seems legit enough, kirsche has two posts but they're both pretty solid content, Romeo and Juliette have made a little progress now they're a hydra, and DA BEAR seems to be a little unwell - I see no reason to post that you're sick unless it actually gets in the way of posting.

This paragraph is just padding. The paragraph before goes off on how SB's points against Cam are good, but he's null anyway because everything can be explained away by his holiday. Why is everyone concluding Shin is town again? He hasn't addressed weapons or Rapier in a while, his Randa case is outdated (his paper wagon was a turbo so the only thing left is him being unnoticeable which is aparently ok for everyone you listed above) and he avoids other people put on the chopping block. What do you think of SB? What do you think of Paper?

I feel worse about Prims now that he's cheering on bad!town lynches.

Shin > Randa >> Cam > Blitz = Prims > Everyone Else > SB = BBM >> Rapier > Weapons > Me.

[Shin]

Randa later said his turbolynch suggestion was a joke Shin, in case you missed it.

I must have missed that post, still, the part about his reluctance to vote then deciding to settle with SB holds true. He didn't seem particularly convinced by any of the main wagons from his prior post and I don't see what would have changed!

kirsche, that entire paragraph was about inactives, giving a reason why I think Belisarius seems a little odd compared to the other inactives. You've missed my part about Randa not liking any of the wagons but deciding to vote despite not finding any of them scummy. Neither Weapons nor Rapier are relevant right now, I'm not going to include them in every post if I'm talking about something else. I also mentioned Paper briefly, he's another one I really haven't noticed too much.

I'm not quite understanding the fascination with me, although I am incredibly handsome!

[Belisarius]

If you don't like my Randa read then why would you vote for Randa?

I didn't like your reason for the read (don't remember which it was specifically), but out of the three people who have any chance to get lynched Randa is the best candidate.

Also Beli did you soft mayor? When you voted it would've been 9 of 11 or L-2, but you said L-1 which would indicate 10 of 11.

Nope just stupidity, I was thinking 10 was a hammer.

With 12 hours left it would be really silly to vote on or lynch anyone other than those three (unless we believe we found a better scum candidate) because we have, by far, the most to go on in day 2 and we definitely do not want a no lynch.

##Vote Randa

[charlie_]

Randa (7) - Cam, Shin, Juliette, Marth, Poly, FFM, Belisarius (L-4)

Paperblade (3) - Prims, BBM, Weapons

SB (3) - Paperblade, Randa, Strawman

Shin (2) - Kirsche, Rapier

Weapons (1) - Blitz

Cam (1) - SB

No vote (3) - scorri, Refa, Bearface

10.5 hours left.

I'm going to sleep early so I can wake up for phase end, but if I don't pls don't turbo me kthnx.