Code Geass Mafia - Game Over

[Green Poet]

@boron

I just realized that poly is probably Blackhawk Sleeper, so I'll need to reread him.

@refa

-I think proto is pretty tonwie, went over one of his responses to eury and it was very genuine sounding + didn't have to come up with an empty response to hide lack of content

-I've been questioning blitz and baldrick's play somewhat but I don't think either of them have done anything that sticks out to me as necessarily or probably scummy. Baldrick did get us out of rvs and while the questions he asked in order to do it can be seen as overreacting/paranoid, I don't think it's as scummy as blitz made it sound. Blitz could also be onto something with what he sees in elie-baldrick-eury interactions

I think Elie normally posts all over the place, but he seemed to only say stuff to Eury, which, to me, sounded kinda like, "Eury is clearly just joking around with me and there is nothig to see here", so that people would ignore Baldrick. So, I think if Baldrick turns up scum, it makes sense for Elie to be scum also.

but it would probably be more relevant when elie has posted more

-I think I'm not understanding what paper's saying sometimes. maybe it could be seen as scummy to disagree with paper's analysis that one out of three hydras is definitely mafia from the viewpoint of someone who's made games before? And I don't understand his most recent post much at all

if I am wrong Refa is scum

There's probably some connection I'm assumed to be able to make but can't. /shrug

"If there are no mafia among the hydras then Refa is scum" is what I'm getting but idk what leads to that conclusion. Was there ever a case?

Basically I can't follow paper's thinking yet. The sudden sweeping statements + lack of explanation makes it difficult to read him.

-I thought I was onto something with Eury's questions to Proto, though possibly the plain honesty of proto's response caused me to conversely assume scuminess in Eury's questioning? Eury does begin her games with a lot of questions to everyone so I'm possibly trying to believe too much in an ED1 gutread than I should. Initially pinged me as possibly scummy. Her recent response was fine.

##Unvote

##Vote: Paperblade/Baldrick

not thrilled about this vote but it's more relevant than keeping a vote on poly, for whom my previous reason for voting suddenly no longer applies.

[Green Poet]

still need to read Boron and Junko, will probably do that tomorrow when I'm free.

signed up thinking I'd not be posting too much this time around and yet I've already sat here for hours arggh

[Baldrick]

A. you could have started off with an attack on Elie and Refa for making most posts, that reminds me mosts of Elie's posts are joke posts (all of them are actually, unlike Refa's)

B. or talk about Hydra's being scum, like Blade has done so (pretty sure Blade would talk about setup specs in your PM cause that is what we did as masons in some game where we were masons) in other words, basically attack the other two hydras (like making a fake case to see how they react)

C. or attack Proto with saying something like, I don't see you doing better to get a reaction

A. That'd basically be a prod. You accused me of faking contribution before, but prodding someone is a very easy way for scum to fake contribution.

B. Setupspec is a waste of time (sorry paper). If you think my eury case was bad because it lacked a follow-up, wouldn't a fake case be much worse in that regard?

C. Wouldn't that be much more of an over-reaction than asking Proto to elaborate?

This answer doesn't satisfy me because it contradicts his earlier case on me.

[eclipse]

I am sorry, this game is gaining momentum, if I keep at it, I will seriously fail in my exam, will have to turn off the net to prevent me from checking the site every 5 mins. Should also be back in like 7ish hours

I swear I am going to ban you if you fail your exam because you were playing mafia instead of studying.

Really, that's the only reason why I posted. I'm pretty mentally drained right now, and I just got off the phone with my friend (which is why I've been "posting" for an hour), AND I still haven't cooked dinner. Things like actual reads will have to wait until the end of the weekend (unless I mysteriously have time on Saturday).

[Paperblade]

SB said the game is randomized and I told him to go fuck himself. I will do an actual read tomorrow.

[charlie_]

Votals 1.2

Baldrick/Paperblade (3): Proto, Blitz, Green Poet/Mitsuki

Green Poet/Mitsuki (3): Bluedoom, Refa

Polydeuces (1): Boron/eclipse

Elieson (1): Eurykins

Eurykins (1): Elieson

Refa (1): Polydeuces

Blitz (1): Junko

Not Voting (4): Baldrick/Paperblade, Radiant Dragon, kirsche, Kay

With 14 alive, it takes 8 votes to lynch. There are 63 hours and 20 minutes left in the phase.

Edited March 7, 2015 by SB.

[Baldrick]

Greesuki can vote two people? Some hydras get all the luck.

@junk
iirc, lining up lynches is more along the lines of "if x flips town, y is scum", trying to bring one ML after another. For that reason I don't see it as scum intent, if blitz is scum trying to get elie lynched after me as my buddy his plan's going to fail when I flip town.

@refa
Why do you agree with paper's trying to game the setup after what happened last time?
vote is alright, I can see scum intent in leaving it on the table like that, but I wouldn't sheep it, I believe her defense is genuine.
What do you think of her other content?

@green
you said blitz's theory on elie and I being buddies was good, but you don't have an opinion on elie. Has this changed?
you're back and forth on my early content, do you think I'm town trying to end RVS or scum getting panicky from suspicion?
I was asking proto about the seriousness of his vote, not eury. I even doubleposted to confirm it.

@blue
tbh you seem more passive than either refa or green. you just comment on the cases on me, what do you think of them and what are do you take from how it has built?

@red
you haven't even posted yet; what do you think of your fellow dex holders?

##vote: Bluedoom

[charlie_]

Greesuki can vote two people? Some hydras get all the luck.

I don't know what you're talking about.

[Blitz]

@Baldrick, it hasn't even been half a day and well, RD isn't the only one who hasn't posted (neither has Kay or Kirsche)

also, I don't get how attacking Elie would have been a prod, when he was online and posting

also, IMO, getting a reaction is better than asking something that cannot provide a reaction, cause it leads to nothing

anyways, after rereading the thread, I came to the conclusion that it isn't that the reason I don't like your reaction is more because of the way you played the game (which you would gain much less from IMO). Your points about it trying to move the game forward makes sense if that is the way you play and also, the stuff you said does sound more like the truth (if you are scum, my scumdar must be dead) and therefore, I see no reason to be voting you

Unvote

it seems I will be doing yet another follow up of Refa (damn you man, my scumdar is in sync with yours or there is something very fishy going on, lol) with my next post.

[Zkirsche]

Elie, well people in general, shouldn't claim not-doc as that narrows down realdoc.

-Baldrick is townie and being wagoned because ??? Refa explained why.

-scum shoot Blitz so I don't have to read him tyvm. His grasping is terribad tho but Blitz.

-Everyone's defense this game is spot on pls scum go ez.

-Junko, saying that two people are interacting like scumbuddies would is not scummy.

#111 in a nutshell: "hey guys I totally have other reads that I'll definitely expand on later" and never does. ##Vote: Refa

I don't even really get his logic on GP either and it seems kinda stupid, first he gives a non-equivalent scenario as justification and worse is that it isn't really a fair representation of what GP said? "This is ok setupspec but we shouldn't do it unless we have proof or nothing better to lynch on." is not "This is ok, but I'm not sure.... can you give definitive proof?"

PB's reaction to GP is much more natural. In general I can understand the arguments against GP but just disagree on the conclusion.

Elie should realpost but he's probably asleep or something.

[Junk]

Just woke up so uh just did a quick skim.

@ Baldrick oh while I guess I used the term wrong then >_>... Also yeah looking at your explanation for why there was no scum intent that that was part of the case was dumb but the rest of my case still stands.

from a quick skim it feels weird how blitz just suddenly changes stances on baldrick questions not contributing to his explanation make sense on how he was trying "to move the game forward" and how the stuff he said seems truthful (yeah I know it's a reread but that drastic change of a stance so suddenly bothers me :/)

have to go now.

[Paperblade]

Get on my dick, Refa, yeah you like it. Give it a good licking.

Anyway the Hydra thing is because, generally, having extra players to town gives them a lot more power, so if I were gonna have random hydras liek this I'd make one scum, and I think other hosts would too. No one actually fully randomizes. Also it's Day 1 and it's a more useful line of thought for me than RVS and shit

GP is either town or not talking to her scumbuddies prior to her failing Poly's identity, meaning her scumbuddies if any are likely among RD/Kay/kirsche. Unless she's pressurevoting her scumbuddy for not posting and didn't realize he was. But I think that's unlikely?

Blitz, I'm not sure if I've ever written a fake case on someone as town (that wasn't intended to be a joke). Like, getting reactions to my case was good but if people wanted to go through with it I would do it if it didn't seem like a scum push

Refa being scum if all 3 hydras are town is because he jumped on my idea and just seemed super eager. If all 3 hydras are town it'd explain it

imma just let Bald contrl the vote unless I think he's being super dumb near deadline or some shit, fuck responsibility S T U M P B O Y S

[Elieson]

Yeh I ended up streaming super metroid last night then slept until like noon today, and have fi ally got PkmnORuby for $20 at a smash event today that I just left. Ill post stuff when I get home but really quick kirsche is probably scum on gut and blitz is rusty town just paranoid that he cant remember how to read the AMAZING ELIE and its just throwing him off but its ok

Can someone summarize GPscum again im not following it and paperburadus bit doesnt make sense to me

POSTIN AT TRAINTRACKS#

[Elieson]

Also I bc orgot I was voting eury so I guess

##unvot

When I reread ill revote refa. See, alliteration,

[Elieson]

Damnit mobiles

##Unvote

[Prims]

not playing but I would fully randomize hydras. Actually I wouldn't allow hydras in the first place.

[Radiant Dragon]

@Baldrick, it hasn't even been half a day and well, RD isn't the only one who hasn't posted (neither has Kay or Kirsche)

Actually, I think Baldrick is just making a Pokemon joke here (I made the same mistake at first, but yeah).

Anyway, this is the first time I've been Town in... years I think? I don't even remember the last time I was Town. Or how to play as Town.

Skimming over the topic nothing jumped out at me as being obviously suspicious so I'm going to have to do some more analysis when I have the time to do so. I don't think Poly's Miller claim is suspicious (plus it'd make sense flavor-wise if he is indeed Orange) and while I understand and agree with Paper that if I was doling out roles I wouldn't make all three hydras Town, the fact is that neither I nor Paperblade choose the roles for this game. I'm not comfortable following this train of thought since I don't know much about SB's host meta. We would basically waste a bunch of lynches for no gain.

So yeah, will reread and post my thoughts on other players when I get a chance.

[charlie_]

Votals 1.3

Green Poet/Mitsuki (3): Bluedoom, Refa

Baldrick/Paperblade (2): Proto, Green Poet/Mitsuki

Refa (2): Polydeuces, kirsche

Polydeuces (1): Boron/eclipse

Elieson (1): Eurykins

Blitz (1): Junko

Bluedoom (1): Baldrick/Paperblade

Not Voting (4): Radiant Dragon, Kay, Elieson, Blitz

With 14 alive, it takes 8 votes to lynch. There are 48 hours and 35 minutes left in the phase.

Edited March 7, 2015 by SB.

[Refa]

GP, the impression I got from your early posts was that you were buddying with Proto. He was under like, no pressure at the time, so I don't see why you felt the need to defend him like so. Actually your inquiries about Eurykins were pretty good actually (since it's what I'm thinking myself) but I totally missed it my first skim through whoops. Also most of your scumread on Paper/Baldrick's slot seems to be solely based on Paperblade, which is...weird? Like you mentioned that Baldrick doesn't bother you, so do you think he'd play like that as scum? Also no, it's not scummy for disagreeing with Paperblade (e.g. I wasn't bothered by Boron's response), it was more like...your wording that bothered me.

Eurykins, for the record I think Poly's point on you was meh (don't really see how you were grasping at straws), but your reply was bad. If someone called my arguments grasping as town, I'd be more than a little annoyed (and from what I've seen of your play previously, you'd be miffed too), but here you're just being really...non confrontational? I think that's the right word, anyways. Your response to Proto is pretty wishy washy too (you got nothing out of his response AND your reasons for asking the question were...to see if anything can be gained, OK); I actually thought you were going to say "I wanted to check if you were counter claiming Miller" FWIW. PEdit OK, his response wasn't alignment indicative. Dropping this point, still would like a response to my first though.

Junk, asking "is your vote serious" generally will not catch scum because there's no incentive for them to ever say "yes, it was serious". You say that Blitz is exaggerating Baldrick's vote but like...I don't know why you think that, just that you do. Can you give specific examples? I agree that early on, Baldrick could not have contributed more as town (still bitter about being turbolynched in RVS for not having contributed enough ;/), but Blitz wasn't calling him out on that (otherwise I'd call BS on Blitz as well). Also no, he was not lining up lynches. If anything, that'd be limiting his lynch options if one of them flipped town. Eh, on closer inspection your post isn't really scummy per say, just that I thought your reasoning was bad and attributed that to you being scum. Would like you to elaborate on any other suspicions you have though.

Boron, Baldrick never said his vote on Eurykins was a reaction test? It was a question lol. I don't get your Poly vote. OK, you don't understand his suspicions (fuck, neither did I), but why is that voteworthy? If it's purely for the purposes of pressure (this is what your vote came across to me, but obviously I'm not you so I wouldn't know), then why Poly over someone who is more likely to respond?

Bluedoom, why am I passive? Yeah yeah, you're townreading me anyways because ~roles~, but it annoys me that you'd get that impression of my content in the first place.

Greesuki can vote two people? Some hydras get all the luck.

@refa
Why do you agree with paper's trying to game the setup after what happened last time?
vote is alright, I can see scum intent in leaving it on the table like that, but I wouldn't sheep it, I believe her defense is genuine.
What do you think of her other content?

@blue
tbh you seem more passive than either refa or green. you just comment on the cases on me, what do you think of them and what are do you take from how it has built?

@red
you haven't even posted yet; what do you think of your fellow dex holders?

##vote: Bluedoom

Baldrick, don't scare me like that! I thought my fakeclaim was in jeopardy for a second there.

I'm not voting anyone just for being a hydra, am I? For me, I see Paperblade's points as a tool helping me pick which players to focus on (let's be real, I'm not seriously going to analyze every player or even most on D1) rather than lynching someone based solely on that (honestly, I can't even see scum doing that because it'd make them look super bad later on haha). My thoughts on her other content (and other peoples' content too, which you should totally check out because I'm always right and the best) is above!

My fellow dex holders are both chumps, I'm always right and the best.

#111 in a nutshell: "hey guys I totally have other reads that I'll definitely expand on later" and never does. ##Vote: Refa

I don't even really get his logic on GP either and it seems kinda stupid, first he gives a non-equivalent scenario as justification and worse is that it isn't really a fair representation of what GP said? "This is ok setupspec but we shouldn't do it unless we have proof or nothing better to lynch on." is not "This is ok, but I'm not sure.... can you give definitive proof?"

I made one post after that wherein I said I was doing other things and then proceeded to do other things. It's confusing that that's your basis for voting me (if it's not, then uh my bad, but you did vote me right after that so...). Regardless, your response to my case is wrong because 1) My justification was that town would have a more definite opinion on mod meta (yeah, forgetting that GP probably wouldn't, which she highlighted with her response, but I left my vote on her anyways because I wanted to see what her other reads were before reconsidering who to vote), which means my example was still appropriate despite my choice of player to use it on not being quite so appropriate and 2) Don't really get your issue with my quote, it'd be swell if you could specify how I'm misrepping GP because I'm not seeing it.

Get on my dick, Refa, yeah you like it. Give it a good licking.

GP is either town or not talking to her scumbuddies prior to her failing Poly's identity, meaning her scumbuddies if any are likely among RD/Kay/kirsche. Unless she's pressurevoting her scumbuddy for not posting and didn't realize he was. But I think that's unlikely?

Refa being scum if all 3 hydras are town is because he jumped on my idea and just seemed super eager. If all 3 hydras are town it'd explain it

I know you had your heart set on it and everything, but like I don't swing that way. Sorry bro.

I don't get why GP's scumbuddies are RD/Kay/kirsche because she didn't know who Poly was. Like, maybe if it was someone more in the forefront (like me no bias) whose name she didn't remember, I'd agree but yeah. Yeah, she can't be scum with Poly, but this is a moot point anyways because Poly is probably town (which means that he should make more posts HINT HINT).

Nah, I'm just the best townie ever.

Actually, I think Baldrick is just making a Pokemon joke here (I made the same mistake at first, but yeah).

Anyway, this is the first time I've been Town in... years I think? I don't even remember the last time I was Town. Or how to play as Town.

1) Claim Daycop.

2) Lynch scum Day 1 by faking a guilty scan on their Godfather.

3) ???

4) Get N1'd anyways because scum is dumb.

##Unvote

##Vote: Eurykins

[Refa]

SB, Blitz unvoted so he's not voting Paperick anymore.

[Sunwoo]

Boron, Baldrick never said his vote on Eurykins was a reaction test? It was a question lol. I don't get your Poly vote. OK, you don't understand his suspicions (fuck, neither did I), but why is that voteworthy? If it's purely for the purposes of pressure (this is what your vote came across to me, but obviously I'm not you so I wouldn't know), then why Poly over someone who is more likely to respond?

He may not have actually said that his vote was a reaction test, but he did say that the reasons for his questions (which I assume includes the one he asked Eury when he voted her) were to get some real content from them. Wouldn't that be a reaction test?

Also, the reason I'm voting Poly isn't just because I don't get his suspicions. Rather, I feel that he's throwing around statements that put suspicion on certain people but not following through on them. For example, why is Eury grasping at straws and is she scummy for it? What about Blitz/Junko interactions does he not like to the point he thinks one of them is scum? It just seems like very shallow suspicions or finger-pointing, but no real thought into it, like he's avoiding committing to anything.

I'm skimming through GP's ISO right now and I'm not thrilled about her vote on Paperbaldrick, since she herself does not seem to feel conviction for her own vote. GP, do you actually think this slot is scum? Your main problem with it seems to be not being able to follow Paper's thinking, which I don't feel is scummy in itself.

[Kriemhild]

Oh, wow, you guys sure talk a lot. Forgive me for not being super analytical over all these interactions here in Day 1.

Poly's claim sounds legit because he did say he'd join on the condition that he gets Orange, and Miller!Orange fits very well. Yes, this is information taken from outside the game (since it was during the signup phase), and SB naturally wouldn't want us to make conclusions based on off-game information and would therefore insist that the set-up is totally random.

But having hosted Mafia games before in the past, I can say that it's really unlikely for a host to truly go truly completely random. Let's say the host RNGs all the player mappings and finds all the Mafia slots occupied by new inexperienced players (while all the veterans are Town). Would the host decide to re-roll the RNG, or would they go with the first result and risk letting the game get really boring as the Town just roflstomps the Mafia?

Likewise, if SB's RNG yields three hydra slots as Town, I suspect that he would re-roll the RNG. It's technically still "random" since he's still utilizing the RNG for it, but SB would likely ensure that the three hydras don't all fall into the same faction. So based on that, I actually really like Paper's logic about a hydra being scum, even though it's venturing into setupspec. Considering that he's the one who proposed this idea and has been adamantly defending it despite resistance, makes me feel that Paper is Town.

##Unvote: BaldPaper

##Vote: BoronClipsey!

I don't like how she reacted to Paper's scum hydra theory. Sure, it's not definitively known whether SB would allow 3 Town Hydras or not, but this is Day 1 and we don't have any other definite information. So I wouldn't just disregard the idea as being "dumb" right off the bat. Well, considering that the scum hydra theory makes her one of the three lynch targets, I'm not surprised that she'd try to break that logic (even if she were Town), but I still think she looks worse than PoetMitsuki.

Poet seems to be pretty active and has been trying to approach everything in a clear logical manner (which is not necessarily townish, but it looks really good). I'm deliberately trying to avoid making judgments from Mitsuki's posts due to past experience, so I'm just focusing on the Poet side of the player slot. But yeah, I'd be okay with a BoronClipsey lynch.

Also, it's perfectly fine to refer to me as Formina or Proto. Or any of my past names, but since this is a Mafia game, it might be better to stick to Formina/Proto so as not to confuse other players.

[Kriemhild]

(my post looks so big, despite having almost no content; Sorry, I'm not trying to pretend like I'm contributing a lot. I know I'm contributing almost nothing because I'm generally not a fan of Day 1 logic)

[Sunwoo]

Proto, you're still making the assumption that you know SB's host meta so well that you know for a fact he would re-randomize the RNG just so a hydra would be scum. So unless you have proof that you know SB's host meta that well you're better off dropping the setup spec. As a host, I wouldn't re-roll the RNG on the sole basis that none of the three hydras that I had ended up as scum. The only reason I WOULD re-roll an RNG is if someone who specifically requested an alignment didn't end up as it.

And Paper's idea is dumb and I have no problem saying it. The problem with his theory is that even if there isn't definite info at this point, you're drawing conclusions with NOTHING other than setup spec that may not even be true. In other words, that's not even really a case.

[Elieson]

Poly's claim sounds legit because he did say he'd join on the condition that he gets Orange, and Miller!Orange fits very well. Yes, this is information taken from outside the game (since it was during the signup phase), and SB naturally wouldn't want us to make conclusions based on off-game information and would therefore insist that the set-up is totally random.

Can i just say how horrible this logic is, and that I should probably vote you for saying something so utterly ill-informed?

##Vote Formina Sage

I bought Omega Ruby today, but if I have to expect that the game features Team Magma using logic like this to try to defeat me, then I already know who the bad guys are.

Time to actually read pages 5-8, and I'm still waiting on that Grassbridger scum explaination