Realm of Mirrors - Game Over

[CT075]

what, exactly could coby have said that would tell their alignment? "aw shit guys you got me i'm scum"

[Sunwoo]

also boron can you give your thoughts on elie and cam. You mention that me/elie/cam knew about shin's meta before and i interpreted it as you finding something weird? Would like more clarification on this though.

I have no idea where you are even getting this conclusion, nor how I could have made it any clearer that I DIDN'T find anything weird. Seriously.

My thought on Cam is that right now he's trying to figure out what the hell is going on. Not scummy. My thought on Elie is that so far I don't see anything wrong with him. My thought on you is that you're dumb (I'm just joking, don't take this seriously) or you're trying to blow something that's not a big deal into proportion to distract attention from you, which does feel a bit scummy.

[Junk]

what, exactly could coby have said that would tell their alignment? "aw shit guys you got me i'm scum"

to me IMO town! coby would have been more inquisitive and asked WHY we were just voting them for no reason while scum! coby would have probably tried to call out people in a bad way for voting him randomly.

PEDIT: @boron, ... yeah i think i forgot the context in which you were saying that and misread it gg me. how do i forget in the same post that you were responding to me despite the fact that the first half of your post i remembered you were responding to me.

[Paperblade]

Okay I actually read now

I think Junko thought I was asking a serious question and not just dicking around

Cam's posts are shit tbh

so is SB's but he has more of a pass because it's 3AM

[CT075]

to me IMO town! coby would have been more inquisitive and asked WHY we were just voting them for no reason while scum! coby would have probably tried to call out people in a bad way for voting him randomly.

why is this alignment-specific behavior

Cam's posts are shit tbh

ilu2 paperbrad

[Junk]

why is this alignment-specific behavior

ilu2 paperbrad

Because it fees that they're being more defensive with those types of responses. jumping to conclusions right away, to me scum which is kind of nervous IMO.

why are cam posts shit blade?

[Paperblade]

I'm currently trying to decide if Junko is mafia or just panicking

panicking seems like a very junko thing to do but he's doing that either way

So the question is is he panicking more than usual because he's also mafia

[Paperblade]

Cam's posts are like my posts but worse

[Percivalé]

voted quote because they asked to be voted lol.

???????????

[Paperblade]

Specifically I don't like how he comes in and votes SB when SB is probably asleep

[Junk]

commie scum, on 27 Dec 2015 - 7:16 PM, said:

Kind of find quote's vote weird since what is wrong with trying to bring attention to something with nothing else to do?

Quote:it would be better if you actually put your vote where your words are

Junko:post incoming since SF is being weird with quoting.

• Quote
• MultiQuote

[Junk]

cam is looking kind of weird to me looking back actually. He says that my words are not town but then vote's for SB over something that is ambiguous of whether or not something was serious. Priority just feels kind of weird to me even though he justifies it with the fact that i'm trying to do something but scum can try to do something to for town cred. Want to see cam's response to why SB is better than me atm.

Don't really get paper's thoughts on cam voting SB during SB sleeping time though. Don't really see how that matters especially since it will be morning where SB lives in a few hours so it's not like he's just trying to drag out response time by a long time.

[Percivalé]

i feel like you misread my argument so i kinda snarked at you back which i apologize for

[Junk]

i feel like you misread my argument so i kinda snarked at you back which i apologize for

you should already know i'm the king of misreading arguements though

it's fine though

[CT075]

voting junko doesn't accomplish anything

sb's the one that sticks out to me

[Green Poet]

##unvote

## Vote Shin

looks like we got scum then

This is scummy because it's a justification for a joke vote that isn't the first vote on the Shin wagon. An initial joke vote is to be expected in RVS, but someone trying to cash in a vote on the same person's wagon, via the same joke, is scummy.

##Vote: Junko

Scum blending in.

This is a more succinct explanation of what I mean re: above.

The usual Shin antics, what else? Moving on.

I do see what Junko is getting at with this post. I had a similar gut reaction to reading this that's a little difficult to put into words.

It feels dismissive. It's commenting on what Shin's doing without taking a stance. Yes, it may be his usual behavior, so does that mean it's not alignment indicative? If it's not alignment indicative, why not elaborate and state explicitly "You guys should stop voting Shin, because he always jokes like this"?

Instead of making that comment clear, suggesting that we should be, or that you are, "moving on," without introducing anything new to actually move everyone's attention towards feels empty.

it would be better if you actually put your vote where your words are

do you think boron is scum. do you think shin is scum?

okay

##unvote

##vote quote

now answer the question please

This exchange makes Junko look like over-defensive town.

It's a really bad vote on Quote though.

ah, fuck it

##vote SB

?

Cam, you had something to say on Shin, Junko, and Boron. Even if you're not sure what to make of the Junko/Boron topic, this SB vote is non-contributory and doesn't line up with what you're saying.

ilu2 paperbrad

I would have expected a "Paper, why do you say that my posts shit and what would you like to see elaborated?" instead. This kind of dismisses the issue, and avoids calling Paper out on his insubstantial accusation, because Paper has yet to explain what he finds faulty about Cam's posts at all. If I were Cam, I'd pressure Paper for that comment.

voting junko doesn't accomplish anything

sb's the one that sticks out to me

Why?

i was about to vote for serious bananas and then went back and read the wagon start and couldn't remember why

So... there's no stated reason in all of Cam's points up till now as to why he's voting SB, or thinks that SB is scum.

##Vote: Cam

Junko reads town. Boron reads null.

[Green Poet]

Sorry, I should have included

##Unvote: Oceanbourne

before that vote. Also, before I forget to mention it again, I'm a mayor so my vote counts as two.

[Sunwoo]

I do see what Junko is getting at with this post. I had a similar gut reaction to reading this that's a little difficult to put into words.

It feels dismissive. It's commenting on what Shin's doing without taking a stance. Yes, it may be his usual behavior, so does that mean it's not alignment indicative? If it's not alignment indicative, why not elaborate and state explicitly "You guys should stop voting Shin, because he always jokes like this"?

Instead of making that comment clear, suggesting that we should be, or that you are, "moving on," without introducing anything new to actually move everyone's attention towards feels empty.

There is no stance to take. According to my previous observations of wacky stuff Shin does in mafia games™ it isn't alignment indicative. And why do I need to elaborate that when both Cam and Elieson have played with Shin before and KNOW he does this themselves (and in fact looked like they were playing along with him in the first place)?

Why should I make things explicit? Looking at how people react to things like Shin's behavior is an indicator of who may be tryhard scum. If someone has played with Shin a lot, is familiar with his antics, and is trying to start a serious case on him for RVS things, that person is going to look like tryhard scum.

Also, "moving on" isn't supposed to mean anything. I tacked it on because it felt awkward to end the post without it. Some things just mean nothing. Also, harping on such minor word choice like that makes it look like you're trying to make a mountain out of a molehill. What are you, Grassbridger?

This exchange makes Junko look like over-defensive town.

Why?

Junko reads town.

Why is Junko reading town? Why does his exchange with Quote nullify the earlier scummy feelings you had about him in your first quote?

[Green Poet]

There is no stance to take. According to my previous observations of wacky stuff Shin does in mafia games™ it isn't alignment indicative. And why do I need to elaborate that when both Cam and Elieson have played with Shin before and KNOW he does this themselves (and in fact looked like they were playing along with him in the first place)?

You don't need to elaborate, no, but it is constructive to do so.

Not elaborating what you mean when you state "These are the usual Shin antics" can lead me to guess many things about what you mean. I'm not Cam or Elie, and I do not know what they think or what their experience with Shin is. For you to think that "Cam and Elie already know this, therefore I don't need to elaborate on it for their benefit" may possibly be true, but it doesn't hurt to confirm this through a more explicit statement. Beyond the two of them, there are other players in the game who will read your post who will be as ignorant of the situation as myself, and because of that, it behooves you to help all of us understand what you are trying to say about Shin.

Also, "moving on" isn't supposed to mean anything. I tacked it on because it felt awkward to end the post without it. Some things just mean nothing.

I see, makes sense.

Also, harping on such minor word choice like that makes it look like you're trying to make a mountain out of a molehill. What are you, Grassbridger?

I'm definitely trying to find a large, sweeping conclusion from a small beginning indicator. It's D1 and we have little more than joke votes with which to hunt for scum - we all start with the molehills that are brief and non-serious RVS posts and must arrive at the mountains that are serious cases and accusations. If you feel like I'm rushing towards my conclusions of who is scum, or being overly presumptuous about it, I'm more than willing to explain my thought process in more detail.

Harping on word choice is one of the things that can get me from RVS to a solid case. If I'm scum, I'm going to type differently than I would as town. There are going to be written mannerisms I forget to replicate and typos that can give away an antitown thought process. We're playing this game entirely through text, so the only thing to examine, and jump on, are words. I can see that it may be uncomfortable and feel excessive, especially if you are town, but I hope you can see why I'm doing it.

Why?

Junko actively went for the most visible option available to him. He was prompted to voice a scumread on one of two players, and chose instead to vote the person who asked him to do this. It's not a vote motivated by appeasement or the scummy intent to blend into an acceptable answer. It goes against the norm in order to spark an impassioned conversation, and this visibility is not antitown.

Why does his exchange with Quote nullify the earlier scummy feelings you had about him in your first quote?

If I could quantify the towniness of his reaction, I would say that it outweighs his first, scummy post.

[Shin]

Lame, I normally get way more votes during RVS. I nearly got hammered once!

I fully expected a couple of votes to follow. It took me about five minutes to realise that commie scum was Junko, but I don't really feel anything malicious about the vote. It's lazy, but there's no scum intent. What I do take issue with is the number of easy votes on Junko, All about the communism train and all that.

SB's original vote makes sense because it's an observation, The Eli/Paper/Via tria look really bad. Not because I think they're all scumbuddies but because they're all so opportunistic and lazy.

Junko feels like he's struggling with the angry mob on him, but I really dislike his exchange with Via, although it makes them both look individually bad. Boron, from the sounds of it, got bored of my antics and the hilarity that ensues. I can kinda see why, but I think there's a lot of information to get from it.

Kinda bad: Via>Eli>Paper

Slightly less bad: Junko>SB>Boron>Cam

Town reads: Maybe GP?

OK, I think there might be a problem when I'm scumreading half the game.

##Unvote

##Vote: Via

Probably the worst worded of the three votes. Paper's may have been blank but I still take more issue with taking Junko's views on Boron as a lazy addendum to the case. The aggressive nature of the casing in later posts is pretty bad too.

[Shin]

For the record, I'm nearly 200% sure that Cam and Eli's votes are massively jokey. Also for the record, I nearly posted a Spiderman meme in my previous post, but then I realised it wasn't that game any more.

[Sunwoo]

You don't need to elaborate, no, but it is constructive to do so.

Not elaborating what you mean when you state "These are the usual Shin antics" can lead me to guess many things about what you mean. I'm not Cam or Elie, and I do not know what they think or what their experience with Shin is. For you to think that "Cam and Elie already know this, therefore I don't need to elaborate on it for their benefit" may possibly be true, but it doesn't hurt to confirm this through a more explicit statement. Beyond the two of them, there are other players in the game who will read your post who will be as ignorant of the situation as myself, and because of that, it behooves you to help all of us understand what you are trying to say about Shin.

What if I want you to stay ignorant so I can access your reaction? Not elaborating also has its own benefits, such as how you and Junko have latched on and reacted to my saying "it's D1 Shin antics". Also, I am literally struggling to understand how my post can be interpreted in any way other than "this means nothing for alignment".

I'm definitely trying to find a large, sweeping conclusion from a small beginning indicator. It's D1 and we have little more than joke votes with which to hunt for scum - we all start with the molehills that are brief and non-serious RVS posts and must arrive at the mountains that are serious cases and accusations. If you feel like I'm rushing towards my conclusions of who is scum, or being overly presumptuous about it, I'm more than willing to explain my thought process in more detail.

Harping on word choice is one of the things that can get me from RVS to a solid case. If I'm scum, I'm going to type differently than I would as town. There are going to be written mannerisms I forget to replicate and typos that can give away an antitown thought process. We're playing this game entirely through text, so the only thing to examine, and jump on, are words. I can see that it may be uncomfortable and feel excessive, especially if you are town, but I hope you can see why I'm doing it.

I think you're focusing on the wrong word choice thing and that it's annoying having to explain the only part of my post that meant nothing. Yes, there are certain word choices that can indicate someone being town or anti-town … and then there are other word choices that mean NOTHING and just start to get really annoying when you're focusing on that instead of more important things.

And you assume wrong. It's not uncomfortable -- it's ANNOYING because "moving on" is the one part of my post you SHOULDN'T be giving a fuck about!

Junko actively went for the most visible option available to him. He was prompted to voice a scumread on one of two players, and chose instead to vote the person who asked him to do this. It's not a vote motivated by appeasement or the scummy intent to blend into an acceptable answer. It goes against the norm in order to spark an impassioned conversation, and this visibility is not anti town.

If I could quantify the towniness of his reaction, I would say that it outweighs his first, scummy post.

I don't see how this is inherently townie, and I definitely didn't read it that way. It felt more like they were trying to get Quote to back off by turning the tables on them. Their case on Quote isn't even well explained.

##Unvote

##Vote: Junko

Of everyone present in this thread, so far I feel the worst about him.

[Izhuark]

Okay i'm totally lost here... maybe i should have read the posts more carefully but i don't feel the energy to read 4 pageof ED1 that seem to go around only one argument.

So if at least one of the active player could kindly answer those question, i should be grateful to him.

1 : What's going on ?

2 : For what the reason this could happening ?

3 : Was there any concrete read until now ? (because i don't see any.)

4 : what are you thought on active players until now ?

[Shin]

Okay i'm totally lost here... maybe i should have read the posts more carefully but i don't feel the energy to read 4 pageof ED1 that seem to go around only one argument.

So if at least one of the active player could kindly answer those question, i should be grateful to him.

1 : What's going on ?

2 : For what the reason this could happening ?

3 : Was there any concrete read until now ? (because i don't see any.)

4 : what are you thought on active players until now ?

Let me, SHIN, tell you a totally accurate but also rather amusing version of what happened!

One upon a time, there was a Cam, he voted SHIN. Shin said that "Yah, I be scum, totally!" and then Eli said "Yah, that be a good vote too!" They had an amazing time and then Shin won an Oscar for best scum. However, then Junko came along and he was like "Shin is scum! Let me vote!" and probably thought it was real, but it wasn't, just like a cartoon.

But then SB came along with his stabbing knife from Hull and said "Hey Junko, voting Shin looks like an easy vote!" Boron had seen more of Shin than anyone else and said "Junko, that's just Shin shinning about. I've seen his shins, trust me." and then probably Eli, Via and Paper wanted in on some of the voting Junko.

Then Via said something to Paper, but Shin was too busy being BRITISH to not notice it. GP and Boron then talked about how Junko might or not be scum. Amd then Izhuark came along and said "What am happening, I wish someone HANDSOME could tell me what happened!" and then Shin came along and told this accurate story.

GP's also mayor or something.

That's pretty much what happened, or at least my accounts of it. Pretty much everyone's worth looking at currently, although the priority list's a little different for people. I'm a little sceptical about the Junko wagon, but the game's still early! I still have time to self-vote if I wanted!

[SB.]

Cam, why is Junko excused from being scum because he's doing things? I want to know why you think he's town rather than scum trying to look productive.

My vote on Junko was ED1 strong (so kind of serious kind of grasping) and I don't really like his response because I don't see how the questions he asked would've created a worthwhile discussion. Keeping my vote for now.

Shin, what was bad enough about Via's wording to make them voteworthy and why is Junko's vote fine? You keep drawing conclusions to things without really explaining where they're coming from and it's kind of weird.

GP reads town even if I disagree with her read on Junko. Izhuark, what are you getting from those questions that you can't get from reading it yourself?