Realm of Mirrors - Game Over

[Shin]

words

Cool, my vote's still on you though.

Paper, feel like elaborating on your SB read? He hasn't been fantastically active, but what puts him above the likes of Izhuark or Clarinets or Boron? None of them have been horrendously active, does SB's vote stand out that much? Not that I'm criticising your new age retro minimalist style, but it does make one wonder where you find your inspiration.

[Paperblade]

SB is sb so he is held to a higher standard than new people I don't know well

Boron's play is more likely to be town imo

But I may be biased

[Percivalé]

i'm gonna be away for a period of time i'll be back in nine hours i guess. i was putting a post together but i got really angry and need to cool down sorry.

[Elieson]

Not gonna lie I've basically not cared about this game for a little bit aka the entirety of today. Heater's out at work; it went from 78 yesterday to 44 today so I'm just kinda hunkered up in blankets at work watching Youtube and workin stuff so :/

[CT075]

i got into an accident earlier today so my focus might be off fyi

i think everybody took the shin "wagon" earlier too seriously; i disagree with gp's assertion that the exchange between via and junk makes via look scum and junko town - via basically said "put your money where your mouth is" which is basically saying "stop being noncommittal", to which junko just wags his tail and obliges

[Junk]

welp we know elie's scum it never gets cold in texas, trying to avoid the game i see

From the green poet exchange got that boron was slight town. Feel like as scum they would just go "your arguement sucks the end" rather than putting effort into arguing about it again. GP is null. Just didn't get really anything out of what she said.

[Sunwoo]

I'm reading Quote as frustrated right now, but I can't tell if it's frustrated town or scum. I'm leaning more towards town because of the tone, but honestly I'd just like to see more from them when they're in a better mindset.

SB hasn't said much, and it feels like he's not really looking into things all that deeply? I get the feeling that he's not putting in a lot of effort like he's trying to coast by?

Izuhark's questions and lack of effort are bad. There aren't even that many game-content pages to begin with, so why not reread the thread again when you do have the energy and focus to do so? His questions look like someone trying to get an idea for the "consensus" of the game while weaseling out of giving their own thoughts, or not even bothering to form their own thoughts. It's scummy.

@Boron how do you expect me to make a well explained case with one post lol? My vote on quote admittedly that was more of a reactionary then anything, Also can't really understand how quote would just suddenly stop questioning me about stuff because I voted them? Quote is currently null to me after we found clarification and saw how they misinterpreted what i was trying to say due to my bad wording. although up until now did not find a place to switch my vote until now.

I don't expect the case to be well explained, but you barely had an explanation as for why you voted them in the first place. Also, a reactionary vote isn't … really a good thing OR a townie thing.

##Unvote

##Vote: Izhuark

For reasons stated above. Still not happy with Junko, but right now I'm more interested in Izuhark.

[Junk]

why is a reactionary vote scummy?

I guess my reasoning for finding quote weird was that when i interpreted quote's post the first time they said that i was trying to herd attention to your post but i found it weird because i did not see what was wrong with that. Certainly not voteworthy to me until they told me to stop being noncommital so went ahead and voted them.

[Sunwoo]

why is a reactionary vote scummy?

The same reason an OMGUS vote is scummy.

[SB.]

i don't (maybe i did, don't remember why), i just didn't see any point in voting him at the time

what made you think that

In hindsight with the number of votes i think Junko had this is probably fair. Wrt the second part, I didn't see how questions about shin's meta was relevant at all, especially when I don't think he's tried to anything with him so far.

Ocean's content is /alright/ but really sparse compared to last game which kind of concerns me. Is Cam the only person who bothers you at all? Also the random question to Shin while ignoring the rest of the thread is kind of ??? too.

##unvote

##vote SB

okay so i feel like SB's just been throwing out a bunch of filler just to get by (if you are pressed for time then you can tell us in the next post because then it might make a bit more sense). Went back and looked at SB and saw in his post #90 where he asked me what I would get out of questions that I did not even ask which i clarified what i was asking of elie/cam in ##post 82. I do respond to him though but in his next post he says he says he doesn't like my response but doesn't actually explain why. Then it feels like he's just throwing out a bunch of easy questions again and a townread. Feels like he is just doing the bare minimum pretty much.

I am semi-busy with family stuff and also generally not feeling the game that much. I actually explained why I didn't like it too, it felt like your questions were useless and were just made to make you look good.

Okay I'm at work so don't expect much exciting

But SB isn't doing shit tbh

I mean I am playing like shit and feel like my vote should be stronger point but I really don't feel like I'm getting anything from the thread. Like, even after rereading it I don't feel like much has actually happened? It's mostly just people reacting to Junko and more recently there's been pressure on me but I really don't have anything to say about other people because I just can't get scumreads on active players. My reads are mostly just "kinda town" on various people (Shin/Boron/Via) based on playstyle and thinking Izhuark is being too blatantly useless to be scum because he probably could've faked something.

[Junk]

don't see how i would try to make myself look when i had a grand total of... one vote which i thought was an RVS vote. And again my questions wasn't regarding what they knew about shin's meta. It was what elie and cam thought of (what i thought was boron saying) that they are weird for voting for shin despite knowing shin's antics.

i dunno actually went back and saw paper's comment about holding you to a higher standard and now i'm bugged by my read on you because this feels almost too easy. Feel like scum SB would be a bit more cautious and not give such easy holes. Pretty waffly on this read but really don't have anything else to go off on.

@boron, tbh idk what makes an OMGUS vote inherently scummy. It is how they go about the OMGUS. Why is an OMGUS scummy to you?

Boron also gets leans a bit more town again since izuhark seems like a weird target to switch to as scum. Feels like trying to open up a new avenue of discussion which is good IMO.

[Sunwoo]

Why is an OMGUS not inherently scummy, you answer that. An OMGUS vote and a reactionary vote are bad because you're not looking at scum intent. You're reacting to the person you're voting because they made you have a knee-jerk reaction, not because what they said or did was necessarily scummy.

[Junk]

knee jerk reactions can happen with both alignments though. i agree my vote was bad but idk how it's scummy.

[Oceanbourne]

Ocean's content is /alright/ but really sparse compared to last game which kind of concerns me. Is Cam the only person who bothers you at all? Also the random question to Shin while ignoring the rest of the thread is kind of ??? too.

my content is about the same as yours unless I missed a page or something (I was only able to use isos in Trinity because SB linked them on the front page, is there a way to do it by myself?) I talked about a few other people and not just Shin, and it's not like I just threw out a question to him cause I wanted to, I continued it for a couple more posts; I guess calling Boron/GP English teachers wasn't much of a read but it looked rather town/town

he actually is. I already talked about junko, am not actually decided about via, don't really see much on you, especially considering the majority of arguments towards you are based on the meta of not doing enough. it is funny that you're saying that I don't have enough content either while you justify your situation with "not feeling it" and "not really drawing too much from the game" (can't comment about family issues).

Izhuark didn't do much in the last game he signed up for and his content's just saying "how do I play this game" so I would be more concerned if it gets rather close to deadline and he hasn't actually showed up yet

everyone else is town, null, not here, or paperblade, who is special because of his impressive amount of one sentence takes on the game that I don't know what to make of. "sb is scum cause meta, cam is bad, and junko might be panicking mafia but not if sb's mafia"

that being said @Paperblade why can't junko be scum too? from my perspective it's not like sb's vote on him is particularly standing out since several people in the game are scumreading him

[Percivalé]

yeah I'm really sorry actually I just got back from work and I have a killer migraine. I'm in a better mood now though, will get some stuff in before I sleep

I'm reading Quote as frustrated right now,

I WAS frustrated because it takes me a lot of energy to write mafia posts and this is why I don't like people voting me when I'm town bc defending myself takes up all my energy and I can't focus on actually scumhunting, then shin acts like he didn't even care to read my post so it felt like a huge waste. but I'm feeling better now and I don't have anything against anyone, don't worry about it.

##unvote

not feeling this anymore, gonna finish my post I was writing

[CT075]

i swear to god i'm paying attention this game

mafia post or just boron post

leaning slightly towards mafia, i'll admit don't actually know boron that well but from what i've seen feel like they would have probably tried to be a bit more inquisitive about the cam/shin/elie whatever thingie rather than just handwave it this early in the game. Thoughts boron?

exhibit A: srs bsns

"boron is mafia" here for no adequate reason - "boron should have pushed cam/elie more", except that she literally just said that this happens every game

now, this is just bad logic and bad logic is not inherently scum, but then proceed to ask boron for opinions, to which she responds that this is something "shin always does"

ah sorry about that then, your response is fine. i only have vague thoughts about the games shin and i both played in heh so maybe he did do something similar in those games. Interesting point about elie and cam though. Thoughts elie and cam on boron's point?

"oh okay all good cam and elie what do you want"

This is like a super halfassed post that looks like it's more helpful than it is. There are only two possible responses to this request:

"Yes, Boron is right, this is Shin's meta", or some variation ("it was a joke" counts as a variation of this response) - useless response

[making some contrived reason to vote shin up] - looks obviously scummy

I forward this: Both responses can be twisted to be scum responses. Even if that wasn't the intention (and i've been out for too long to have any idea of what junko's meta is like), it's still a useless question that isn't likely to get anything

Shin vote was a pressure vote. Was hoping more people would vote coby since i felt we might get something if we put pressure on a noob but no seemed to follow so welp.

i still don't understand what this was meant to do

how can you get someone to towntell off of RVS pressure? For one, there isn't any, because RVS is just that - random! secondly, even if he reacted (big if), what could he say? this response absolutely doesn't cut it for me. it's a lot of meta and it's not even particularly sound logic. why can't scum ask why everyone is voting him?

think this is meant to sound more useful than it is

Regarding boron it's more of a personal thing not to vote someone 5 seconds in for something small, just feels kind of unfair IMO. I asked boron for their thoughts so that we could get some potential discussion.

this literally says nothing

Kind of find quote's vote weird since what is wrong with trying to bring attention to something with nothing else to do?

first of all, this doesn't even address her accusation - she said "why didn't you vote boron if she was the most likely scum candidate" and "why do you continue pressing boron if she isn't your highest scum candidate"

secondly, this is anti-town because it's hypocritical - why is via questioning you any different than you questioning boron, or me, or elie? this looks like an attempt to sweep via's accusation under the rug by heaping onto her instead.

thirdly, junko backs off waaaaaay too quickly when via pressures junko to vote for him, and this rubs me wrong for several reasons. For one, junko has his vote on shin this entire time. am i expected to believe that it's somehow more productive to keep "pressuring shin" (for questionable cause regardless) than to at least remove it after things start getting serious? for another, it looks like junko literally just moves his vote to via because via asked him to with nothing more than an "answer the question". moving the vote doesn't mean anything (zero pressure, and the fact remains that via told him to) and it looks like an easy way to relieve heat

okay so maybe "mafia" wasn't the best word to use, "weird" might have been better but i was responding to paper and he used the words mafia and boron when asking about the post but now you get the idea. I can actually see what you might have found bad about that though and in the end i guess it's just more of a conflict of when to vote someone. Just don't like voting someone when i have something small on them and like giving them a chance to respond.

this is an excuse to be noncommittal

my thoughts on boron went from this post is weird better ask more about it to back to null when they responded since i found their response to be fine.

what was weird about it

literally the only reasoning i've heard is "because boron didn't pressure cam and elie more", which is bullshit because her response didn't actually address either of us.

PEDIT: @SB wanted to see how elie would respond to what sounded to me like boron might have detected something weird with elie/me/cam's votes. Pretty much looking for possible roads to start discussion.

this is a whole lot of nothing said

don't see how i would try to make myself look when i had a grand total of... one vote which i thought was an RVS vote. And again my questions wasn't regarding what they knew about shin's meta. It was what elie and cam thought of (what i thought was boron saying) that they are weird for voting for shin despite knowing shin's antics.

this looks like backpedaling to me

remember that junko was fine with boron's response of "shin does stupid things every time", with the added implication of "elie and cam do stupid things in response every time". this also firmly shows that boron did not find anything strange with our votes.

why, then, keep pressuring me?

i dunno actually went back and saw paper's comment about holding you to a higher standard and now i'm bugged by my read on you because this feels almost too easy. Feel like scum SB would be a bit more cautious and not give such easy holes. Pretty waffly on this read but really don't have anything else to go off on.

meta and doesn't actually say anything interesting

Boron also gets leans a bit more town again since izuhark seems like a weird target to switch to as scum. Feels like trying to open up a new avenue of discussion which is good IMO.

why can't boron be scum attempting to redirect attention?

more in a bit

[CT075]

ah fuck i fucked up via's pronouns didn't i

pretend i didn't do that

[CT075]

also, before anybody asks me: I think Junko is scum trying to look more useful than he actually is. i'd vote him, but he's at L-2 right now and I want to make sure my vote is somewhere that's likely to accomplish something

[CT075]

I want to make sure my vote is somewhere that's likely to accomplish something

(this may end up being junko, I don't know yet)

[CT075]

wait what the fuck junko has said that he feels "weird" about like half the game gimme a second i need to quotewall this shit

[Oceanbourne]

re: the very first thing in your long post, he actually says that post right /before/ she says that Shin does his stuff every game

junko only has 2? votes at the moment actually

I don't actually have time to go over anything else right now

[CT075]

re: the very first thing in your long post, he actually says that post right /before/ she says that Shin does his stuff every game

i don't understand how "it's typical shin antics" can possibly lead into "she should have asked cam/elie for more"

junko only has 2? votes at the moment actually

does he actually? i saw 5 on the last votals and didn't see any unvotes (admittedly wasn't paying that much attention to them)

[CT075]

JUNKO FINDING THINGS WEIRD MONTAGE

Kind of find quote's vote weird since what is wrong with trying to bring attention to something with nothing else to do?

my thoughts on boron went from this post is weird better ask more about it to back to null when they responded since i found their response to be fine.

cam is looking kind of weird to me looking back actually.

also have a slight gut feeling about elie thinking about it now.

actually less than i thought but let's keep going

JUNKO VAGUE PRODDING MONTAGE

Thoughts boron?

Thoughts elie and cam on boron's point?

also boron can you give your thoughts on elie and cam.

[...]

3. please elaborate.

Also cam you forgot to elaborate on how my words regarding via on my original case were not townie.

this set is probably a lot weaker than i thought it was when i went through to compile it, but basically a lot of these are asking for vague "thoughts" which is really an open invitation to say nothing of use

[CT075]

man i really want to just slap my vote on junko by now but it feels a lot like confirmation bias when i type it out

it's also 2 in the morning so i'm not the most coherent right now so i'll vote when i wake up

[Junk]

you know i really think i need to work on my wording.

1. yeah again as i said before weird would have been a better word regarding what i thought about boron's post. Also I didn't mean that they boron should directly push you or elie when i said being more inquisitive without how you,elie, and shin were interacting with each other I meant that feel like that boron would've allowed the idea (whatever that means i can't think of a word for it) to develop rather than just handwave it as shin's antics.

2. okay yeah that was probably a bad question. Intention was to hope that you guys both might try to say whether it was good or bad to start something. Those responses you listed make more sense though i guess.

3. Coby was a noob though so I feel it's more likely to say that if he has no idea what the hell is going on i feel it's more likely he'll let something slip. And to be frank nothing is guaranteed. You're right he very well might have asked why people are voting him as scum and it would have been usless. But it's at least trying to make something happen even if it's not guaranteed. Also bad wording, have never played coby before just gave examples of what to me what a townie and scummy reaction would look like. idea is townie, inquisitive and scummy: defensive Also i'd have to go pretty far back (i.e like a few minutes or something after my first initial RVS vote where i vote coby for my second vote) to try to make myself look more useful later on (also yes I know it's self meta)

4. uh yeah i do respond to via where they ask why i didn't vote boron where i talk about how i don't really like to vote people over one minor thing. Also me talking about via being weird was in reference to them saying I was trying to "herd" people to boron's post in which i didn't really see anything wrong with that this early in the game. Also via questioning me is not the reason i found their vote weird and the explanation is in the sentence before. Fair point regarding me voting via though. That was a bad vote.

5. this is just a handwave as "nothing"

6. bad wording on my part, don't want to go over this again. I can see your point though but idk what else to say, i'm not going to make up stuff XD

7. see number 1

8. also a handwave,

9. I misinterpreted what boron's post meant because i'm dumb and can somehow forget the context of a post halfway through a two line post

10. why is meta bad?

11. I'd agree normally with you that boron could be scum trying to redirect attention but izuhark is a weird choice to be trying to do that. Feel like either i or someone with heavy interactions with me is going to be lynched today. It'd be easier as scum IMO to help mislynch people who have had interactions with the person who has been lynched rather than someone who hasn't really done anything.

i swear to god i'm paying attention this game

exhibit A: srs bsns

1."boron is mafia" here for no adequate reason - "boron should have pushed cam/elie more", except that she literally just said that this happens every game

now, this is just bad logic and bad logic is not inherently scum, but then proceed to ask boron for opinions, to which she responds that this is something "shin always does"

"oh okay all good cam and elie what do you want"

2.This is like a super halfassed post that looks like it's more helpful than it is. There are only two possible responses to this request:

"Yes, Boron is right, this is Shin's meta", or some variation ("it was a joke" counts as a variation of this response) - useless response
[making some contrived reason to vote shin up] - looks obviously scummy

I forward this: Both responses can be twisted to be scum responses. Even if that wasn't the intention (and i've been out for too long to have any idea of what junko's meta is like), it's still a useless question that isn't likely to get anything

3. i still don't understand what this was meant to do

how can you get someone to towntell off of RVS pressure? For one, there isn't any, because RVS is just that - random! secondly, even if he reacted (big if), what could he say? this response absolutely doesn't cut it for me. it's a lot of meta and it's not even particularly sound logic. why can't scum ask why everyone is voting him?

think this is meant to sound more useful than it is

5. this literally says nothing

4. first of all, this doesn't even address her accusation - she said "why didn't you vote boron if she was the most likely scum candidate" and "why do you continue pressing boron if she isn't your highest scum candidate"

secondly, this is anti-town because it's hypocritical - why is via questioning you any different than you questioning boron, or me, or elie? this looks like an attempt to sweep via's accusation under the rug by heaping onto her instead.

thirdly, junko backs off waaaaaay too quickly when via pressures junko to vote for him, and this rubs me wrong for several reasons. For one, junko has his vote on shin this entire time. am i expected to believe that it's somehow more productive to keep "pressuring shin" (for questionable cause regardless) than to at least remove it after things start getting serious? for another, it looks like junko literally just moves his vote to via because via asked him to with nothing more than an "answer the question". moving the vote doesn't mean anything (zero pressure, and the fact remains that via told him to) and it looks like an easy way to relieve heat

6. this is an excuse to be noncommittal

7.what was weird about it

literally the only reasoning i've heard is "because boron didn't pressure cam and elie more", which is bullshit because her response didn't actually address either of us.

8. this is a whole lot of nothing said


this looks like backpedaling to me

9. remember that junko was fine with boron's response of "shin does stupid things every time", with the added implication of "elie and cam do stupid things in response every time". this also firmly shows that boron did not find anything strange with our votes.

why, then, keep pressuring me?

10.meta and doesn't actually say anything interesting

11. why can't boron be scum attempting to redirect attention?

more in a bit