Realm of Mirrors - Game Over

[Shin]

Yo, I've started reading Cam and Junko's exchange. I'm off to visit family for the day so I won't be back for a while. Have fun without me!

[Izhuark]

I'm definitely trying to find a large, sweeping conclusion from a small beginning indicator. It's D1 and we have little more than joke votes with which to hunt for scum - we all start with the molehills that are brief and non-serious RVS posts and must arrive at the mountains that are serious cases and accusations. If you feel like I'm rushing towards my conclusions of who is scum, or being overly presumptuous about it, I'm more than willing to explain my thought process in more detail.

Harping on word choice is one of the things that can get me from RVS to a solid case. If I'm scum, I'm going to type differently than I would as town. There are going to be written mannerisms I forget to replicate and typos that can give away an antitown thought process. We're playing this game entirely through text, so the only thing to examine, and jump on, are words. I can see that it may be uncomfortable and feel excessive, especially if you are town, but I hope you can see why I'm doing it.

Maybe i'm wrong (i'm surely wrong), but the second part of this argument feel weird : why do you need to tell people how to scumhunt you ? Especially when you were telling how you scumhunt ; Was it just an example ? 1: Why do you need and example ? your first answer was very good in itself and simple to understand adding more to it is like "written mannerisms" that could hide scum intent to gain town cred while not risking himself. 2: For me it's the worst you example you could take as town because it's easy to develop on yourself and your way of playing while lying about it.

Really sorry if I'm hard to understand i didn't knew how to put it down.

Izuhark's questions and lack of effort are bad. There aren't even that many game-content pages to begin with, so why not reread the thread again when you do have the energy and focus to do so? His questions look like someone trying to get an idea for the "consensus" of the game while weaseling out of giving their own thoughts, or not even bothering to form their own thoughts. It's scummy.

##Unvote

##Vote: Izhuark

For reasons stated above.

Well i have nothing more to say than "i genuinely was lost" ; "i lack of self-confidence" and "I suck at mafia". If i was scum i could have asked help to my scumbuddies before posting non-sense like I did and believe me I would have done it, i'm not one of those rogue mafia player who play their own game when their are mafia. (and i would suck even more at it).

For me junko case is kinda useless since it only turn around one sort of rvs post and i think we should move on looking for other players behaviour.

Izhuark didn't do much in the last game he signed up for and his content's just saying "how do I play this game" so I would be more concerned if it gets rather close to deadline and he hasn't actually showed up yet.

Actually if you really want to see my town play and my scum play you may want to read my "batmafia" posts and "Mafia sucks mafia" posts two game i was pretty active on. There are also a lot of game where i was kinda inactive and got killed because of that (of head : "FE9 mafia" and "Ragnarok mafia".) and arkham mafia was "special".

[Green Poet]

I'm seeing a fair bit of self-meta from Via and justification/explanation of his own reactions to others' posts. For example,

for the record please read my posts as facetious and not jerky since I'm paranoid they're kinda starting to sound jerky even though that's not my intention [flies away]

my Junko vote was me finding something nice to latch onto because earlygame, I tend to get really overzealous when I think someone is scum and I might have legitimately convinced myself Junko was scum already and when they voted me over Elie/Paper (both of which were, like, sheepvotes, if you see Elie's vote it's actually not that good) I got even more convinced for some reason through my Cool And Amazing Brain that Junko was panicking. coupled with my case that I now realize did kinda not make as much sense as I thought it did at the time lol

I realize you don't HAVE to vote someone when you case them but it's different when it's earlygame at least imo, and overreactions & "grasping" tends to happen when there's nothing else to go on.

currently deciding where my next vote's going. I kinda got a lot to say but I don't have as much time to say it.

my takeaway from this relatively lengthy post is just "I might have convinced myself that Junko was scum, but I'm not really sure anymore." It's quite wordy and possibly more filler than just self-conscious phrasing.

yeah I'm really sorry actually I just got back from work and I have a killer migraine. I'm in a better mood now though, will get some stuff in before I sleep

I WAS frustrated because it takes me a lot of energy to write mafia posts and this is why I don't like people voting me when I'm town bc defending myself takes up all my energy and I can't focus on actually scumhunting, then shin acts like he didn't even care to read my post so it felt like a huge waste. but I'm feeling better now and I don't have anything against anyone, don't worry about it.

##unvote

not feeling this anymore, gonna finish my post I was writing

I'm inclined to believe the frustration expressed here is genuine, but I still have an issue with this post because it still says little about the game, and a lack of content is not necessarily excused from being scummy by genuine frustration. I read this as just "I spent a lot of effort on my last post and dislike how Shin seemed to ignore it even when it involved him." The post doesn't comment on what this means about Shin's alignment, or anyone else.

I'd really like to see more posts from Via discussing other players when he's feeling up to it, because so far his posts do read like coasting, especially so because he's not voting anyone at present.

JUNKO VAGUE PRODDING MONTAGE

This is a good observation. "What do you think of X?" can be a fine conversation starter, but after going back to each of the individual posts that Cam quoted, I don't feel like that's Junko's genuine intention. Most of the time, it reads like scum trying to divert attention away from himself. Coupled with the fact that there are like five or six quoted instances in which Junko asks these kinds of questions, I'm doubtful that they are all motivated by some actual curiosity.

The back-and-forth between Cam and Junko does not completely sink my townread on the latter, but it is making me reconsider it. It's not so much the specifics of what Junko's saying, but rather how his posts become increasingly defensive (i.e. "here's my response to every single point from #1, 2, 3 ... 9 of what your criticisms were") and abandon expressing reads on others. I think Cam's posts, particularly those involving Junko, have become more understandable to me and thorough than those of his from ED1 discussing SB. I also think that it is unlikely that Cam is bussing Junko, as the page 9 high-effort Junko tunneling appears genuine. Because of this, I'm going to

##Unvote: Cam

##Vote: Via

What if I want you to stay ignorant so I can access your reaction?

Then you've succeeded.

I think you're focusing on the wrong word choice thing and that it's annoying having to explain the only part of my post that meant nothing. Yes, there are certain word choices that can indicate someone being town or anti-town … and then there are other word choices that mean NOTHING and just start to get really annoying when you're focusing on that instead of more important things.

I'll say that I'm not examining the "wrong" words intentionally. I wouldn't have tried if I knew that they were not meant to be focused on. Regardless, I don't think that continuing talking about this is going to do much towards finding scum.

I have 4 answer to this amazing question that are all true, pick the one you prefer.

1 : Because trinity mafia.

2: Like i said i didn't felt the energy to read carefully 4 page of ED1 about only one argument (aka : is junko comportment scummy or not)

3 : Mafia sucks

4 : I suck at mafia

This looks the same as Izuhark's play from Batmafia ED1.

Not going to vote someone based on blatantly/deliberately bad posting. He should be vigged on policy if it continues.

SB is sb so he is held to a higher standard than new people I don't know well

I've been thinking about what this could say about about Paper's alignment for quite some time, and have not come up with any certainty. I don't think it's the best reason to vote someone, as "I know you're better than this as town, therefore right now you're not town" doesn't sound like the most reliable scumtell, and it is fundamentally a case based entirely on meta. But I am not Paper and do not know the extent of his expectations from, or familiarity with, town!SB's play, and don't feel entirely capable of commenting on whether or not such a case is alignment-indicative.

SB's response also agrees with this... so I suppose it's OK? I honestly feel like I'm trying to read players outside of my capacity to here.

[Percivalé]

it was supposed to be my defense towards shin but Things are making me less motivated to play this game anymore

[Percivalé]

i don't think shin is scum, i appreciate his conviction even though the tunneling is annoying but from what i remember as shin so far this doesn't feel like shin scum meta. i was thinking about it since i played a game with shin as scum once but i was dying of math hell so i don't actually remember what it was like, but he feels less present than this when he is scum i guess? he's being way more assertive and loud and Shenanigans that drew attention to him from the beginning really don't have me convinced he is scum.

[Izhuark]

Okay i don't even have to care for playing if the only thing someone can say to me is that i should be vigged "on policy". look like mafia isn't made for me. Well when is the dead line so that i can eventually request a sub before it ?

Edited December 29, 2015 by Izhuark

[Sunwoo]

I'm about to go to bed, but I just have to respond to this.

Really sorry if I'm hard to understand i didn't knew how to put it down.

Well i have nothing more to say than "i genuinely was lost" ; "i lack of self-confidence" and "I suck at mafia". If i was scum i could have asked help to my scumbuddies before posting non-sense like I did and believe me I would have done it, i'm not one of those rogue mafia player who play their own game when their are mafia. (and i would suck even more at it).

For me junko case is kinda useless since it only turn around one sort of rvs post and i think we should move on looking for other players behaviour.

First of all, you're asking me to believe self-meta that I have absolutely no reason to believe. So I'm won't.

Second of all, what do you hope to accomplish with telling people "I'm not good at mafia, I lack self confidence"? Do you want pity? People to go easy on you? Do you think most people were rocking a game of mafia the moment they started? No, most of us flailed around until we finally got ahold of the game. Saying "guys, I suck" accomplishes nothing. You can suck and still be mafia. So unless you want pity or something, don't tell us you suck and actually play instead of throwing in the towel because "I'm not good at mafia" is a crutch! And in Trainwreck mafia, I had Shin milk "I'm new and confused" for all its worth when we rolled scum together, so it's not even townie.

PEDIT: And now you're quitting. Seriously.

[Izhuark]

yeah seriously why should i care anymore ? I'm just bad.

##Vote : Green Poet

Telling what potential power role have to do is scummy in itself plus the read I made earlier even if it was the weakest read ever is enough for me in my state.

[Grace]

Votals 1.2

SB (3): CT075, commie scum, Paperblade

commie scum (2): SB, Elieson

Quote (2): Shin, Green Poet

CT075 (1): Oceanbourne

Izhuark (1): Sunwoo

Green Poet (1): Izhuark

Not Voting (2): CobyTheKid, Quote

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to hammer, 4 to lynch at deadline. There are about 13 hours left in the phase.

Edited December 29, 2015 by Curly Brace

[Green Poet]

I didn't see your most recent post as I was writing mine, so my recommendation to vig you was based on the two posts of yours that I had seen from about a (real 24 hour) day ago:

I have 4 answer to this amazing question that are all true, pick the one you prefer.

1 : Because trinity mafia.

2: Like i said i didn't felt the energy to read carefully 4 page of ED1 about only one argument (aka : is junko comportment scummy or not)

3 : Mafia sucks

4 : I suck at mafia

i will try later to make a real post but right now i'm really not in the mood. sorry everyone.

Also thank you very much Shin for you very appropriate answers ^^

here is for you, the second picture i found on google image searching gratefulness :

That's entirely vig-worthy because the only serious comment from the first vote is "I don't think that the first four pages' worth of Junko cases is worth commenting on," and the second post is "Thanks for giving me a summary, Shin" yet don't give your thoughts on said summary. I think that you see the similarities between these two posts and what you were posting D1 during Batmafia. We can't call it scummy and we can't draw a lot of meaning from it, hence vig-worthy.

I don't mean to offend in saying it. I will be looking that most recent post when I get the chance.

[Percivalé]

it is five in the morning and i have a migraine, cam's quotewall can wait for later, sorry if any of this sounds passive-aggressive I'm just trying to explain everything I remember

things I've taken note of: earlygame paperblade's "idk" posts read to me as scum but his super early vote and the way he describes his read on SB is not act all scum of him to do. I've explained this before already so I won't explain it again.

I DON'T like elie's vote on junko and no I don't think it was a jokevote, I don't remember who said that but I don't know how you can read that as a jokevote since it was when junko was first getting heat (unless they meant his shin vote which was obviously a jokevote). our votes clustering together like that was Unfortunate because RIGHT WHEN I HAD my junko vote post on him done elie posted right before me and I knew it'd look shitty but I didn't really care at the time. Elie's vote:

##Unvote

##Vote commie scum

I agree with Boron, and I find it weird that you're asking us to provide aka elaborate on an opinion which is basically about nothing relevant to mafia even

I'll admit I was frustrated at the time because his vote is literally just "yeah I agree with Boron's case" while I had an Earlygame Case of my own and people somehow read it as overaggressive. it sucks that elie hasn't been present because of irl things because I was already getting scumvibes from him in RVS (he seems to be more jokey/"random" when he's scum) but as things stand my read can't really go anywhere until he posts more so this is just where I stand right now.

it also strikes me as weird that boron hadn't voted Junko yet but elie kinda sheeped her case and just went straight for the vote? that's what bothered me about Junko the first time, and I can word this better now: it felt like Junko was casing boron but hesitant to vote her, which is something I think scum tend to do a lot (I know I do it as scum) and it just rubbed me the wrong way but I couldn't explain it correctly. vote commitment and all that. idk if any of this makes sense but you know.

I'm actually reading a lot of the active game as town which is why this has been kinda difficult for me. More in a second because I gotta check something.

[Refa]

Not playing

I can sub!!

Not playing

[Percivalé]

@manix where are the isos?????????

green poet's vote on me feels like a votepark and is pinging me but i don't feel like reading her wallpost yet and i haven't read a lot of her other content fully so [spins around]

##Vote: SB

I actually really agree with Paper's SB read and think this is a worthy lynch target. I had to go back and re-read his posts (which is difficult because no isos which I can easily access??? manix???) but I think I'm feeling more confident in this now.

it's likely Junko's probably getting lynched today but I'm feeling SB because his posts after his junko vote seemed more "careful," being more laid-back comments/questions directed towards other players without any actual reads in them. they were kinda unmemorable. he hasn't been a presence in the game since then and that doesn't feel like town SB to me

[Green Poet]

Maybe i'm wrong (i'm surely wrong), but the second part of this argument feel weird : why do you need to tell people how to scumhunt you ? Especially when you were telling how you scumhunt ; Was it just an example ? 1: Why do you need and example ? your first answer was very good in itself and simple to understand adding more to it is like "written mannerisms" that could hide scum intent to gain town cred while not risking himself. 2: For me it's the worst you example you could take as town because it's easy to develop on yourself and your way of playing while lying about it.

The second part of the argument that you had an issue with was focused on Boron saying "harping on word choice," and the first part of the argument that you were in agreement with was focused on "mountain out of a molehill." So I'm aiming to discuss different things that merit different explanations.

There's probably misunderstanding here because I wasn't telling Boron how to scumhunt, or how to examine my posts for scuminess. What I tried to do with that post was to explain to Boron why I personally see the benefit in "harping on word choice" and "making mountains from molehills." Those are things that she disagrees with, so my post only justifies why I do them, and doesn't try to advise her to do them.

[Percivalé]

I'm very tired but I will be in a better mindset tomorrow and I have work off so expect to be seeing more of me hopefully!!

[Green Poet]

##Vote : Green Poet

Telling what potential power role have to do is scummy in itself plus the read I made earlier even if it was the weakest read ever is enough for me in my state.

I didn't think this would require explanation, but policy vigging is a thing and is not my original idea.

Less game-related:

If you think that your state is inhibiting your ability to play or to receive criticism, I'd suggest just taking a break and coming back when you're feeling more up to it. We're here playing a game, for fun, so you don't need to feel stressed to always avoid making mistakes or to never play poorly. We're not trying to insult you for your play. As Boron said, we have all experienced being new to this game, and that is not something to give yourself a hard time over. Take it easy.

[Green Poet]

Uh, I can pretty much only be on SF around this hour, so... with 13 hours left in the phase, I'm not confident I can be around for phase end. Just a heads up. If I am around, it'll be on a crappy phone with slow page loads .-.

[Grace]

ISO's are now in OP. Other links to be added shortly.

[Percivalé]

also like

I realize sb might seem like an "easy" vote but I literally cannot get more definitive reads on the more active players yet until I can parse through their posts which I haven't had a chance to do, and I would like to see an sb flip at this point especially at my revelation that I think half of the regular posters to me are townreads while the others are still null, I wanna focus on people that are blending in/less memorable and SB happens to be one of those and is my strongest actual scumread

[Percivalé]

I LOVE YOU MANIX!!!!!!

[Green Poet]

Last post before I head off.

it's likely Junko's probably getting lynched today but I'm feeling SB because his posts after his junko vote seemed more "careful," being more laid-back comments/questions directed towards other players without any actual reads in them. they were kinda unmemorable. he hasn't been a presence in the game since then and that doesn't feel like town SB to me

I wanna focus on people that are blending in/less memorable and SB happens to be one of those and is my strongest actual scumread

This is fair, as I can see how SB has been unmemorable to anyone not specifically looking out for his (infrequent) posts.

Normally I'd question whether or not citations of Elie's RVS posts and brief Boron sheeping are still relevant when there are more recently active people with content to comment on and case, but given that Via has said that his focus is on unmemorable/blending people, Elie does arguably fit that criteria...

green poet's vote on me feels like a votepark and is pinging me but i don't feel like reading her wallpost yet and i haven't read a lot of her other content fully so [spins around]

It may appear to be a votepark because my vote on you is fairly distant from the actual text where I talk about your posts. That's because what prompted the vote was me deciding that Cam was no longer scummy for the reasons I'd initially voted him for, so I settled on voting my last-established scumread while in the middle of discussing Cam's posts, rather than yours. Not the best formatting, I know, sorry for that.

My case on you is the text around the first two quote boxes of that post, for reference. Lemme know what you think when you do get into the mood for it.

[SB.]

##Vote: SB

I actually really agree with Paper's SB read and think this is a worthy lynch target. I had to go back and re-read his posts (which is difficult because no isos which I can easily access??? manix???) but I think I'm feeling more confident in this now.

I

it's likely Junko's probably getting lynched today but I'm feeling SB because his posts after his junko vote seemed more "careful," being more laid-back comments/questions directed towards other players without any actual reads in them. they were kinda unmemorable. he hasn't been a presence in the game since then and that doesn't feel like town SB to me

Part of this is just Not Being Around, but what am I supposed to be doing when I'm here that I haven't? There are 5 people who aren't really playing and I don't have strong scumreads on most of the active guys because I don't think they're scum. I don't think you're scum just because of how you're playing with like... energy, idk how to explain it really. Shin and Boron remind me of their town metas, Cam had mostly cleared up my worries by the time he left (actually make it 6 people yaaaay) and Green Poet's content has been solid with logic I can follow even if I disagree with where it goes.

That leaves who, Paperblade and Junko? I don't have the strongest read on Paperblade and just feel kind of mad at him for saying "I'm not doing shit" when there isn't shit to actually do because half of the playerlist isn't actually here to scumread. I'm still scumreading Junko even though I feel like it should be stronger now but there's nothing to do.

Out of my other reads, the only other one I could see kind of likely to be wrong would be Shin, but that's because I can't read Shin for shit and it's not a playstyle thing. I feel like I'm getting wagoned because half the game flaked and it's getting me really mad.

Depending on how things go this might be my last post of the day because I'm dealing with family stuff so I'm just gonna say that I'm a Decoy and that I really need to go now.

[Clarinets]

That's entirely vig-worthy because the only serious comment from the first vote is "I don't think that the first four pages' worth of Junko cases is worth commenting on," and the second post is "Thanks for giving me a summary, Shin" yet don't give your thoughts on said summary. I think that you see the similarities between these two posts and what you were posting D1 during Batmafia. We can't call it scummy and we can't draw a lot of meaning from it, hence vig-worthy.

In Batmafia, Izhuark was Town.

Sorry I haven't been here guys, I'll go re-read the thread for now instead of skimming it due to laziness.

[Clarinets]

GUYS I THINK I'M ACTUALLY GOODING THIS GAME

Also this is only pages 3-6, I started packing a lot of content into this

S-Senpai noticed me!!!!!!

##Notice Shin

Shin-senpaiiiiiiii why don't you notice me

everybody notice me

Scumslip, I caught him

Curses, who'd have thought I'd have blown my cover so quickly. I need to tell my scumbuddies, Cam and Eli, to bus me so they don't get caught.

haha

What if this is actually true

##Unvote ##Vote: commie

thanks Elieson

This is a pretty suspicious vote to me. It feels like blatant bussing.

##Vote: Paperblade

it would be better if you actually put your vote where your words are

okay

##unvote

##vote quote

now answer the question please

This entire conversation is pretty bad, but it makes Junko look more scummy than Quote. I doubt scum would request a vote on them and, by extension, cast attention onto themselves.

there's no time like 3:30 am to play mafia right guys???

junko why do you want cam/eli to recite their memory of shin's meta? what do you get from it?

also from what i remember thats a vote paper would make regardless of alignment, i feel like he did the exact same thing in a previous game that i dont remember off the top of my head

This post feels weird. Although it was 3:30 A.M. in SB's time, I still feel like there's scum intent behind the Paperblade comment and the general 'making an easy post' vibe from the post as a whole.

okay so maybe "mafia" wasn't the best word to use, "weird" might have been better but i was responding to paper and he used the words mafia and boron when asking about the post but now you get the idea. I can actually see what you might have found bad about that though and in the end i guess it's just more of a conflict of when to vote someone. Just don't like voting someone when i have something small on them and like giving them a chance to respond.

my thoughts on boron went from this post is weird better ask more about it to back to null when they responded since i found their response to be fine.

PEDIT: @SB wanted to see how elie would respond to what sounded to me like boron might have detected something weird with elie/me/cam's votes. Pretty much looking for possible roads to start discussion.

Junko feels over-defensive, but I don't see any Mafia intent behind this post.

wait holy shit what

like, what? am i the only person who doesn't think this makes any sense? i mean, aside from >RVS pressure, what were you expecting to get out of it?

such as?

these are not town words

##unvote

don't know what to make of boron or shin yet. junko isn't in the clear but he's at least doing something

i'd like to see how things develop

RVS pressure is a good enough reason to vote someone.

voted quote because they asked to be voted lol. Anyway regarding your post idk what else to say besides it was simply bad wording. Was responding to paper's post and he used mafia (or scum one of the two but it was something definite) or boron post so scum was the word that came to my mind.

also boron can you give your thoughts on elie and cam. You mention that me/elie/cam knew about shin's meta before and i interpreted it as you finding something weird? Would like more clarification on this though.

PEDIT:@cam

1. Literally that's it, RVS pressure. Wanted to make something happen.

2. Felt like that if we put pressure on a new person they would be more likely to give a more alignment leaning response just based on experience IMO.

3. please elaborate.

This is another Towny Junko post.

This is scummy because it's a justification for a joke vote that isn't the first vote on the Shin wagon. An initial joke vote is to be expected in RVS, but someone trying to cash in a vote on the same person's wagon, via the same joke, is scummy.

This is a more succinct explanation of what I mean re: above.

I do see what Junko is getting at with this post. I had a similar gut reaction to reading this that's a little difficult to put into words.

It feels dismissive. It's commenting on what Shin's doing without taking a stance. Yes, it may be his usual behavior, so does that mean it's not alignment indicative? If it's not alignment indicative, why not elaborate and state explicitly "You guys should stop voting Shin, because he always jokes like this"?

Instead of making that comment clear, suggesting that we should be, or that you are, "moving on," without introducing anything new to actually move everyone's attention towards feels empty.

This exchange makes Junko look like over-defensive town.

It's a really bad vote on Quote though.

?

Cam, you had something to say on Shin, Junko, and Boron. Even if you're not sure what to make of the Junko/Boron topic, this SB vote is non-contributory and doesn't line up with what you're saying.

I would have expected a "Paper, why do you say that my posts shit and what would you like to see elaborated?" instead. This kind of dismisses the issue, and avoids calling Paper out on his insubstantial accusation, because Paper has yet to explain what he finds faulty about Cam's posts at all. If I were Cam, I'd pressure Paper for that comment.

Why?

So... there's no stated reason in all of Cam's points up till now as to why he's voting SB, or thinks that SB is scum.

##Vote: Cam

Junko reads town. Boron reads null.

Your first point is a good point. I personally didn't find Boron's post about Shin's RVS posts to be weird, I thought it was clear enough as is and, being the original poster, I'm pretty sure that's what Boron felt as well. I thought that exchange with Quote made Junko look scummy. I can't really see much Town intent in it. And finally, your thoughts on Cam are pretty good. I personally Null him right now because his rustiness due to his last game being in July 2014 like he mentioned points to either alignment being a possibility.

Anyway, this overall is a very Towny post.

Sorry, I should have included

##Unvote: Oceanbourne

before that vote. Also, before I forget to mention it again, I'm a mayor so my vote counts as two.

So setup-speccing is bad or something but Mayors are more often Town-sided than Mafia-sided.

There is no stance to take. According to my previous observations of wacky stuff Shin does in mafia games™ it isn't alignment indicative. And why do I need to elaborate that when both Cam and Elieson have played with Shin before and KNOW he does this themselves (and in fact looked like they were playing along with him in the first place)?

Why should I make things explicit? Looking at how people react to things like Shin's behavior is an indicator of who may be tryhard scum. If someone has played with Shin a lot, is familiar with his antics, and is trying to start a serious case on him for RVS things, that person is going to look like tryhard scum.

Also, "moving on" isn't supposed to mean anything. I tacked it on because it felt awkward to end the post without it. Some things just mean nothing. Also, harping on such minor word choice like that makes it look like you're trying to make a mountain out of a molehill. What are you, Grassbridger?

Why?

Why is Junko reading town? Why does his exchange with Quote nullify the earlier scummy feelings you had about him in your first quote?

The salt.

But in all seriousness, I agree with your points about your Shin RVS post. I've also noticed plenty of Town players not elaborating their case or thoughts enough in various games.

You don't need to elaborate, no, but it is constructive to do so.

Not elaborating what you mean when you state "These are the usual Shin antics" can lead me to guess many things about what you mean. I'm not Cam or Elie, and I do not know what they think or what their experience with Shin is. For you to think that "Cam and Elie already know this, therefore I don't need to elaborate on it for their benefit" may possibly be true, but it doesn't hurt to confirm this through a more explicit statement. Beyond the two of them, there are other players in the game who will read your post who will be as ignorant of the situation as myself, and because of that, it behooves you to help all of us understand what you are trying to say about Shin.

I see, makes sense.

I'm definitely trying to find a large, sweeping conclusion from a small beginning indicator. It's D1 and we have little more than joke votes with which to hunt for scum - we all start with the molehills that are brief and non-serious RVS posts and must arrive at the mountains that are serious cases and accusations. If you feel like I'm rushing towards my conclusions of who is scum, or being overly presumptuous about it, I'm more than willing to explain my thought process in more detail.

Harping on word choice is one of the things that can get me from RVS to a solid case. If I'm scum, I'm going to type differently than I would as town. There are going to be written mannerisms I forget to replicate and typos that can give away an antitown thought process. We're playing this game entirely through text, so the only thing to examine, and jump on, are words. I can see that it may be uncomfortable and feel excessive, especially if you are town, but I hope you can see why I'm doing it.

Junko actively went for the most visible option available to him. He was prompted to voice a scumread on one of two players, and chose instead to vote the person who asked him to do this. It's not a vote motivated by appeasement or the scummy intent to blend into an acceptable answer. It goes against the norm in order to spark an impassioned conversation, and this visibility is not antitown.

If I could quantify the towniness of his reaction, I would say that it outweighs his first, scummy post.

This is a long post.

Overall, when I read through it, I thought it seemed rather Town-like. I'm liking the conversation between you and Boron.

Lame, I normally get way more votes during RVS. I nearly got hammered once!

I fully expected a couple of votes to follow. It took me about five minutes to realise that commie scum was Junko, but I don't really feel anything malicious about the vote. It's lazy, but there's no scum intent. What I do take issue with is the number of easy votes on Junko, All about the communism train and all that.

SB's original vote makes sense because it's an observation, The Eli/Paper/Via tria look really bad. Not because I think they're all scumbuddies but because they're all so opportunistic and lazy.

Junko feels like he's struggling with the angry mob on him, but I really dislike his exchange with Via, although it makes them both look individually bad. Boron, from the sounds of it, got bored of my antics and the hilarity that ensues. I can kinda see why, but I think there's a lot of information to get from it.

Kinda bad: Via>Eli>Paper

Slightly less bad: Junko>SB>Boron>Cam

Town reads: Maybe GP?

OK, I think there might be a problem when I'm scumreading half the game.

##Unvote

##Vote: Via

Probably the worst worded of the three votes. Paper's may have been blank but I still take more issue with taking Junko's views on Boron as a lazy addendum to the case. The aggressive nature of the casing in later posts is pretty bad too.

Hmm. I didn't mind Elie or Quote's initial votes on Junko. Although I don't think scum would ask for a vote from someone suspicious of them, I do think Quote's later posts about Junko were pretty bad. However, I'm not sure about the amount of scumreads you have right now. That seems pretty weird to have so many as Town and I hope you explain this more...

On my NEXT POST, covering pages 7-10 or 11 because I forgot which we're currently at and would rather finish this post than scroll up a very small bit to check the actual number!

[Clarinets]

Darn it, almost forgot, in order from most suspicious to least suspicious:

READS:

Scummy:

Paperblade, Quote

Nully:

SB, Shin, Everyone who hasn't posted in pages 3-6 outside of RVS, Cam, Elieson

Towny:

Boron, Junko, Green Poet