Fire Emblem Heroes General Discussion and Links

[Stroud]

22 minutes ago, SilvertheShadow said:

Say whaaaaaaaaaaat?

Wow, a rare occurrence where the more desirable skill is attainable on the 4* unit. I’m far from disappointed. I actually pulled my first Tailtiu as well, and got two for that matter. Both had HP boons. Zzzzzz. However, one had a defense bane while the other had a resistance bane. Looks I’ll hold off on promoting until I get a more desirable spread.

oops, I didn't mean that I'm disappointed. I also think this is an awesome skill to get and now this is also available for f2p this is quite good.
I will also look at what Boon/Bane she get's if I draw her. I still have to get more Infantry blue mages.

[Quintessence]

Oh wow so I did a free summon plus a colorless orb and got 4☆ gunter and a +res -def Jakob. He definitely wants glacies instead of ignis. He comes with Bracing Blow and Wary Fighter but I want to give him CC and a breaker (probably bowbreaker to make him a Lyn counter). Is it a good build?

= EDIT =

So I build him up with Glacies/Vengeance, Close Counter, Bowbreaker 3 and Spur Res 3 (base for Ward Armor).

Also, from the Ask Thread:

So I decided to train a +res -hp Florina and would like her to explode ice on everything. What skill setup is a good one for her? Gamepedia suggests giving her QR or B Tbrkr. I don't have QR but I do have 2 robins for B TBrkr, but idk if it's worth it or should I give her something else?

= EDIT =

Also I got a Lyn dupe in search of a new focus unit and decided to merge her! I think this is a signal to stop and wait for the new banners.

Edited October 30, 2017 by Quintessence

[LuxSpes]

7 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

So, Ayra shows up in the tempest now, along with the other Genealogy units.

WHY wasn't she just on that banner to begin with???

She's also summonable off-focus in the Halloween banner. Of course, she stayed 5* exclusive. So this is another banner where 3 out of 4 character stayed 5*. 

So now, we have 49 3-4* characters (unchanged since the start of the game), 47 4-5* characters (vs 26 at the start of the game) and 44 5* exclusive characters (vs 12 at the start of the game)

At this rate, the 4-5* characters will equate the 3-4* in numbers and the 5* exclusive will become the most numerous group in around 2-3 non-limited banners. Nice...

[MrSmokestack]

@Xenomata Sorry for the late reply, but...

Based on neutral stats, Lilina has only 5 more Atk than Tharja in exchange for -9 Spd.

Also, ok. Hoo boy.

I gave each of these sets Eirika buffs (3/4/4/4, meaning Sieglinde, Hone Spd 3, Rally Defense, and Fortify Res 3 sacred seal)

This is your build:

Spoiler

lilina-delightful-noble [+ATK/-SPD]
35 HP / 53 ATK / 22 SPD / 19 DEF / 31 RES
Weapon: raurblade-plus
Special: moonbow
Passive A: death-blow-3
Passive B: bowbreaker-3
Passive C: spur-atk-3

W-L-D Spread: 143-3-36

+10 Override: 114-9-59

Fury Override: 133-5-44

I put in Bowbreaker since you had an empty B slot and it gives 1 more win over Swordbreaker.

This is my build:

Spoiler

lilina-delightful-noble [+SPD/-HP]
32 HP / 55 ATK / 34 SPD / 14 DEF / 26 RES
Weapon: raurblade-plus
Special: moonbow
Passive A: life-and-death-3
Passive B: swordbreaker-3
Passive C: spur-atk-3

W-L-D Spread: 157-1-24

+10 Override: 130-6-46

Fury 3 Override: 148-4-30

This is neutral Tharja with her base kit:

Spoiler

tharja-dark-shadow [Neutral]
39 HP / 45 ATK / 34 SPD / 23 DEF / 20 RES
Weapon: raurblade-plus
Special: vengeance
Passive A: darting-blow-3
Passive C: spur-res-3

W-L-D Spread: 165-0-17

+10 Override: 125-5-52

Fury 3 Override: 151-3-28

This is an actual Tharja build:

Spoiler

tharja-dark-shadow [+SPD/-DEF]
39 HP / 50 ATK / 42 SPD / 15 DEF / 15 RES
Weapon: raurblade-plus
Special: moonbow
Passive A: life-and-death-3
Passive B: desperation-3
Passive C: spur-res-3

W-L-D Spread: 169-3-10

With Desperation: 171-2-9

+10 Override: 149-7-26

+10 Override with Desperation: 153-6-23

Fury Override: 165-5-12

Fury Override with Desperation: 169-2-11

Whether at +0 or at +10, all of her losses without Desperation are against blue units, meaning she is fighting at a disadvantage. With Desperation at +0, she loses only to Odin (lol R Tomebreaker) and Brave Lyn (lol ignore buff). At +10 she loses to Celica.

Lilina on the other hand has losses at +0 and, with your build, has nearly triple Tharja's losses at +10.

Tharja also has better bulk than Lilina at 39-23-20 compared to 35-19-31, and her Spd lead ensures she gets doubled less. Hence, Tharja has more survivability than Lilina and can more reliably get hit into Desperation range, after which her matchup spread stays good forever. Lilina cannot possibly hope to compare when she is so far behind that an optimized build of hers is somehow worse than the base kit of a unit Lilina took her most important skill from.

So what did we learn today class?

Speed.

Matters.

I mean, if you want to build Lilina, don't let me stop you. You're free to do whatever makes you happy and lets you enjoy the game more. Do you hate Tharja? That's fine. But don't spread misinformation like that.

Edited October 30, 2017 by MrSmokestack

[Quintessence]

Just cleared CC P13-14 and must say my Tempest Team literally stomped through it. Ayra and Rein clean everything while Azura and Raquesis drive, heal, support or dance.

[Arcanite]

13 hours ago, Xenomata said:

Tharja relies on doubling her opponents to kill

To add to smokey-doke

There is a reason why a -Atk Nino still puts in work, while a -Spd Nino.... is rather unfortunate (as an example)

Blade buffs typically don't need more attack, they want more speed; because most blade kills that are missed aren't because of low attack, it is because you missed a double. 

[Ice Dragon]

10 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

WHY wasn't she just on that banner to begin with???

Logistics. Some doofus probably thought up the Tempest bonus character list first and didn't realize the consequences of putting in 4 new characters with 2 old characters. Since it doesn't make sense to make a 2-character banner, they had to split out one of the new characters to join the old-character banner.

 

1 hour ago, LuxSpes said:

She's also summonable off-focus in the Halloween banner. Of course, she stayed 5* exclusive. So this is another banner where 3 out of 4 character stayed 5*. 

2 out of 3 and 1 out of 1, both of which are extremely normal. Rounding error matters, whether you like it or not.

[Arcanite]

@LuxSpes We have 4 star Drive speed tho

ILL TAKE IT

[Interdimensional Observer]

4 hours ago, Vaximillian said:

What weapon could she even get? Another version of Excalibur?

But doesn't Saleh deserve Sacred Excalibur more?

She does mention a "Tome of Nazania", a mythology book or something in Chapter 4. And in her Artur support she mentions a "Glossary of Falibrian Entomology", and a "De Floris Mystici", and a "A Young Girl’s Primer to Nazonian Magic" sought out by the Demon King.

Or Lute can just get a non-personal tome, expanding the pool of the good stuff already in the game for anyone to use isn't a terrible idea. Anima being a hodgepodge in the GBA games means she can be whatever color they want her to be. 

And I just had a revelation: Lute and Artur might be inspired by Mae and Boey! Both are mages who have known each other since childhood, one male and one female, have a paired ending, differing personalities, appear when monsters show up, and are in the game which takes Gaiden as its inspiration.

[LuxSpes]

55 minutes ago, Arcanite said:

@LuxSpes We have 4 star Drive speed tho

ILL TAKE IT

All my infantry teams are based around blade tome users and my-non infantry teams have goads and wards, so I'm not all that hyped about drive skills.

[Quintessence]

8 minutes ago, LuxSpes said:

All my infantry teams are based around blade tome users and my-non infantry teams have goads and wards, so I'm not all that hyped about drive skills.

Actually, I think drives are the future of the meta. With quad buffs from Azura, drives are the only way to push infantry stats a lot more. Right now on Tempest I run Drive Def on Lachesis and Drive Res on Azura, and the boost in survivability is amazing summed up with Azura's sing ability. Such, that Ayra tanks Mae and Tiltyu pretty fine.

[DefaultBeep]

On a random note: how would one spend 117 hours playing one save file in Binding Blade? Because whoever used to own my FE6 cartridge has a save file with 117 hours on it, and I'm both confused and intimidated. Not to mention the save with 90+ hours that I had to delete to make room for my own save.

On a more Heroes-related note (with datamine spoilers):

Spoiler

If the first two BHB are truly being rerun, I might just want to save my orbs to try on the A & C banner. Assuming it's the same banner for the rerun, I believe that this was the banner; no Celica is a shame, but I'd love another chance to get Lana Genny, definitely more than I want Jakob. Plus there's always a chance that the fabled -owl banner will appear, and if Thracia or FE4 Gen 2 get the new banners, I would be extremely sad to have spent all my orbs on the Halloween banner. Looks like I'll be saving my orbs for the next little while!

Edit: Also, because I just looked through the datamine page out of curiosity:

Spoiler

If I'm not miscounting, there are 8 missions associated with the A & C BHB rerun, and presumably for the other rerun as well, though I didn't check it specifically. If all of those give orbs, then I think that's only one less orb than what we normally get from the maps themselves, which is comforting to know.

 

Edited October 30, 2017 by DefaultBeep

[Quintessence]

29 minutes ago, DefaultBeep said:

On a random note: how would one spend 117 hours playing one save file in Binding Blade? Because whoever used to own my FE6 cartridge has a save file with 117 hours on it, and I'm both confused and intimidated. Not to mention the save with 90+ hours that I had to delete to make room for my own save.

On a more Heroes-related note (with datamine spoilers):

  Reveal hidden contents

If the first two BHB are truly being rerun, I might just want to save my orbs to try on the A & C banner. Assuming it's the same banner for the rerun, I believe that this was the banner; no Celica is a shame, but I'd love another chance to get Lana Genny, definitely more than I want Jakob. Plus there's always a chance that the fabled -owl banner will appear, and if Thracia or FE4 Gen 2 get the new banners, I would be extremely sad to have spent all my orbs on the Halloween banner. Looks like I'll be saving my orbs for the next little while!

Edit: Also, because I just looked through the datamine page out of curiosity:

  Reveal hidden contents

If I'm not miscounting, there are 8 missions associated with the A & C BHB rerun, and presumably for the other rerun as well, though I didn't check it specifically. If all of those give orbs, then I think that's only one less orb than what we normally get from the maps themselves, which is comforting to know.

 

Trial maps? Turtling?

Spoiler

Aww that's pretty lame as I wanted to pull Alm/Celica. I already have a +2 Clair and a sheep. Lukas has always been there with terrible stats so he was sent home.

 

[Arcanite]

58 minutes ago, LuxSpes said:

All my infantry teams are based around blade tome users and my-non infantry teams have goads and wards, so I'm not all that hyped about drive skills.

You're supposed to give Drive speed to your blade tomes

Why do you think TILTyou has it?

[DefaultBeep]

19 minutes ago, Quintessence said:

Trial maps? Turtling?

  Hide contents

Aww that's pretty lame as I wanted to pull Alm/Celica. I already have a +2 Clair and a sheep. Lukas has always been there with terrible stats so he was sent home.

 

I suppose, although that is some dedication to turtling if that's the case. Nothing against Binding Blade, I liked it enough to start a second playthrough myself, but 117 hours seems... excessive. But hey, I won't complain; thanks to that guy, I've got a head start on unlocking the Trial Map characters. Brunnya is the one that'll unlock once I finish my own current playthrough, which is nice.

Spoiler

I was surprised to remember that Alm and Celica weren't on the banner, but I think the first Echoes Tempest was going on at that point, which explains Alm at least. I would love a Celica, but I already have Alm, so I'm not quite as disappointed, since I'd rather get Genny than more Alms. In fact, I need like 4-5 Genny's, because I have a lot of lofty healer plans that demand her sacrifice, and the second Hero Fest banner did not pull through for me in that regard.

Actually, on the topic of Brunnya, that reminds me of something that's been bugging me for a while. I think it's a fairly common opinion that SoV Genny looks suspiciously more like Lana from FE4 than her original ponytail design from Gaiden. But does anyone else think that SoV Sonya looks oddly close to Brunnya from FE6 (here's Sonya's Gaiden mugshot and artwork for comparison with her SoV redesign)? The hair color and style and their overall outfit design especially stand out as very similar to me.

Edited October 30, 2017 by DefaultBeep

[LuxSpes]

1 hour ago, Quintessence said:

Actually, I think drives are the future of the meta. With quad buffs from Azura, drives are the only way to push infantry stats a lot more. Right now on Tempest I run Drive Def on Lachesis and Drive Res on Azura, and the boost in survivability is amazing summed up with Azura's sing ability. Such, that Ayra tanks Mae and Tiltyu pretty fine.

I should have added to my previous post. I can see the point of having Drive skills on units like Delthea, B!Lucina and PA!Azura, but from those units, I only have Delthea and she she wants her default Drive Atk, not Drive Spd. And for the 2 others, B!Lucina already comes with Drive Speed, so even if I eventually get her, I won't need Tailtiu's Drive Speed. And as for PA!Azura, I no longer can get her so...

11 minutes ago, Arcanite said:

You're supposed to give Drive speed to your blade tomes

Why do you think TILTyou has it?

My Nino's Hone Atk is working perfectly fine alongside my Azura's Hone Spd and my Lucina's own Hone Atk. Not to mention that all 3 of them are +Spd. If I replaced Hone Atk on Nino for a spd buff, it would be with Hone Spd, not Drive Speed. I'd probably keep it on Tailtiu whenever I manage to pull her, but I'll at least need 11 copies of her before I consider sacrifice one for Drive Speed. 

[DLNarshen]

58 minutes ago, DefaultBeep said:

On a random note: how would one spend 117 hours playing one save file in Binding Blade? Because whoever used to own my FE6 cartridge has a save file with 117 hours on it, and I'm both confused and intimidated. Not to mention the save with 90+ hours that I had to delete to make room for my own save.

On a more Heroes-related note (with datamine spoilers):

  Hide contents

If the first two BHB are truly being rerun, I might just want to save my orbs to try on the A & C banner. Assuming it's the same banner for the rerun, I believe that this was the banner; no Celica is a shame, but I'd love another chance to get Lana Genny, definitely more than I want Jakob. Plus there's always a chance that the fabled -owl banner will appear, and if Thracia or FE4 Gen 2 get the new banners, I would be extremely sad to have spent all my orbs on the Halloween banner. Looks like I'll be saving my orbs for the next little while!

Edit: Also, because I just looked through the datamine page out of curiosity:

  Hide contents

If I'm not miscounting, there are 8 missions associated with the A & C BHB rerun, and presumably for the other rerun as well, though I didn't check it specifically. If all of those give orbs, then I think that's only one less orb than what we normally get from the maps themselves, which is comforting to know.

 

Playing with animations on, going through every chapter without skipping through the text, grinding supports out along the way, that's an easy 30-40 hours right there.  What do the character stats/levels look like?  Arena abusing every character could probably tack on another 10-20 or so.  Besides that...I don't know.  Probably had a habit of leaving the game on a charger lol

As for the datamine stuff

Spoiler

I was a little bummed to learn that they're already going to be reusing BHBs, but I hadn't even considered that the maps wouldn't be reset.  It looks like none of the missions involve having to replay Infernal at least, which is about as a good a silver lining as we're going to get here. 

 

[MrSmokestack]

1 hour ago, DefaultBeep said:

On a random note: how would one spend 117 hours playing one save file in Binding Blade?

Arena abusing, obviously.

Edited October 30, 2017 by MrSmokestack

[DefaultBeep]

1 minute ago, DLNarshen said:

Playing with animations on, going through every chapter without skipping through the text, grinding supports out along the way, that's an easy 30-40 hours right there.  What do the character stats/levels look like?  Arena abusing every character could probably tack on another 10-20 or so.  Besides that...I don't know.  Probably had a habit of leaving the game on a charger lol

As for the datamine stuff

  Reveal hidden contents

I was a little bummed to learn that they're already going to be reusing BHBs, but I hadn't even considered that the maps wouldn't be reset.  It looks like none of the missions involve having to replay Infernal at least, which is about as a good a silver lining as we're going to get here. 

 

Yeah, my own first playthrough (using an emulator at that) was right around 30-40 hours. Looking at the stats, I thing you and @MrSmokestack were right on with the arena abuse. Over half of the characters are at least promoted, and a bunch are at level 20 as well. I don't normally use the arena at all, so I kinda forget that it's even a thing most of the time, haha. Although I'm frankly disgusted that whoever owned this before didn't use Echidna even once. I can respect that he got Gwendolyn to promoted level 15, I have similar dedication/bias myself, but not using Echidna is appalling.

On the topic of seeing interesting units, my Thracia cart had a save with a level 20 Mage Knight Miranda. I've heard that she can be great with that kind of investment, but I'm impressed that someone bother to put in that effort on a legit cart.

[MrSmokestack]

1 minute ago, DefaultBeep said:

 didn't use Echidna even once

I too share in your disgust.

I always enjoy using Gonzales in FE6. 60 hit with 100 crit~

[DefaultBeep]

Just now, MrSmokestack said:

I too share in your disgust.

I always enjoy using Gonzales in FE6. 60 hit with 100 crit~

Good to see someone else has good taste in FE characters.

I've wanted to use Gonzales, but he'll have to wait until another playthrough for now. My goal right now is to recreate the team that I used on the emulator as best as I can, which means I have to make room for characters like Dorothy, Ogier, and Gwendolyn. Hooray?

[Quintessence]

24 minutes ago, LuxSpes said:

I should have added to my previous post. I can see the point of having Drive skills on units like Delthea, B!Lucina and PA!Azura, but from those units, I only have Delthea and she she wants her default Drive Atk, not Drive Spd. And for the 2 others, B!Lucina already comes with Drive Speed, so even if I eventually get her, I won't need Tailtiu's Drive Speed. And as for PA!Azura, I no longer can get her so...

Ah... I see. Though it's good to know that Tailtiu is the first unit to provide her Drive line at 4☆, while Rody that is really common doesn't provide it.

[Xenomata]

In responce to @MrSmokestack

Spoiler

 

4 hours ago, MrSmokestack said:

@Xenomata Sorry for the late reply, but...

Based on neutral stats, Lilina has only 5 more Atk than Tharja in exchange for -9 Spd.

Also, ok. Hoo boy.

I gave each of these sets Eirika buffs (3/4/4/4, meaning Sieglinde, Hone Spd 3, Rally Defense, and Fortify Res 3 sacred seal)

This is your build:

  Hide contents

lilina-delightful-noble [+ATK/-SPD]
35 HP / 53 ATK / 22 SPD / 19 DEF / 31 RES
Weapon: raurblade-plus
Special: moonbow
Passive A: death-blow-3
Passive B: bowbreaker-3
Passive C: spur-atk-3

W-L-D Spread: 143-3-36

+10 Override: 114-9-59

Fury Override: 133-5-44

I put in Bowbreaker since you had an empty B slot and it gives 1 more win over Swordbreaker.

This is my build:

  Hide contents

lilina-delightful-noble [+SPD/-HP]
32 HP / 55 ATK / 34 SPD / 14 DEF / 26 RES
Weapon: raurblade-plus
Special: moonbow
Passive A: life-and-death-3
Passive B: swordbreaker-3
Passive C: spur-atk-3

W-L-D Spread: 157-1-24

+10 Override: 130-6-46

Fury 3 Override: 148-4-30

This is neutral Tharja with her base kit:

  Hide contents

tharja-dark-shadow [Neutral]
39 HP / 45 ATK / 34 SPD / 23 DEF / 20 RES
Weapon: raurblade-plus
Special: vengeance
Passive A: darting-blow-3
Passive C: spur-res-3

W-L-D Spread: 165-0-17

+10 Override: 125-5-52

Fury 3 Override: 151-3-28

This is an actual Tharja build:

  Hide contents

tharja-dark-shadow [+SPD/-DEF]
39 HP / 50 ATK / 42 SPD / 15 DEF / 15 RES
Weapon: raurblade-plus
Special: moonbow
Passive A: life-and-death-3
Passive B: desperation-3
Passive C: spur-res-3

W-L-D Spread: 169-3-10

With Desperation: 171-2-9

+10 Override: 149-7-26

+10 Override with Desperation: 153-6-23

Fury Override: 165-5-12

Fury Override with Desperation: 169-2-11

Whether at +0 or at +10, all of her losses without Desperation are against blue units, meaning she is fighting at a disadvantage. With Desperation at +0, she loses only to Odin (lol R Tomebreaker) and Brave Lyn (lol ignore buff). At +10 she loses to Celica.

Lilina on the other hand has losses at +0 and, with your build, has nearly triple Tharja's losses at +10.

Tharja also has better bulk than Lilina at 39-23-20 compared to 35-19-31, and her Spd lead ensures she gets doubled less. Hence, Tharja has more survivability than Lilina and can more reliably get hit into Desperation range, after which her matchup spread stays good forever. Lilina cannot possibly hope to compare when she is so far behind that an optimized build of hers is somehow worse than the base kit of a unit Lilina took her most important skill from.

So what did we learn today class?

Speed.

Matters.

I mean, if you want to build Lilina, don't let me stop you. You're free to do whatever makes you happy and lets you enjoy the game more. Do you hate Tharja? That's fine. But don't spread misinformation like that.

Do I want to ask why you are putting +0 merge characters against +10 merge enemies? Probably not.

I'm also starting to see we define losses differently, where for you (and probably everyone else) a loss is anything that isn't an outright kill, where for me losses are where the unit in question is outright killed. From my viewpoint Lilina is 20-30 wins short of Tharja and only has about 1-3 more losses, whereas the match-ups considered Draws make no difference whatsoever. It's still bad on paper, though I'm only looking at wins. That MIGHT have an impact on why my thought process is so different from everyone else.

 

Edited October 30, 2017 by Xenomata

[MrSmokestack]

5 minutes ago, Xenomata said:

Do I want to ask why you are putting +0 merge characters against +10 merge enemies? Probably not.

It's good to know whether a build can stand up to buffed arena enemies or not. And if you're making builds for PvE, the merge stress test will still apply to some extent as Tempest enemies essentially have +7 merged stats, save their HP which is grossly inflated.

5 minutes ago, Xenomata said:

I'm also starting to see we define losses differently, where for you (and probably everyone else) a loss is anything that isn't an outright kill, where for me losses are where the unit in question is outright killed.

That is what the "Draw" in Win-Loss-Draw ratio is for: any combat that doesn't result in a KO on either side.

[Xenomata]

1 minute ago, MrSmokestack said:

That is what the "Draw" in Win-Loss-Draw ratio is for: any combat that doesn't result in a KO on either side.

What I mean is that "if the match ended in a Draw, it's still a loss". You know, you might have come in second place but you didn't get first place, so you still suck and should kill yourself.

...I was wondering where you were getting that Lilina had almost 3x the amount of losses that Tharja had, shush.

3 hours ago, Arcanite said:

To add to smokey-doke

There is a reason why a -Atk Nino still puts in work, while a -Spd Nino.... is rather unfortunate (as an example)

Blade buffs typically don't need more attack, they want more speed; because most blade kills that are missed aren't because of low attack, it is because you missed a double. 

Because Lilina is raw power, I think that's where I'm either getting confused or thinking too much and coming to the wrong conclusion: Lilina doesn't have the speed to do the same Desperation thing, but she has the raw power to just deal with it in one hit USUALLY.

...of course they may just make all this irrelevant one day and release Brave Tomes for all units. Then I'll just start having arguments about why Lilina is totally the best Brave Tome user over the only mounted red mage we have right now.