Ice Dragon Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 Completely unrelated to everything going on in this thread, but I find it really stupid that Null Follow-Up disables Weaponbreaker skills (and my offline friends agree). The Weaponbreaker skills are intended to be extremely powerful against a small handful of units and completely useless otherwise, and it seems completely unnecessary that units running Null Follow-Up can simply just ignore skills specifically intended to disable them. It feels like Null Follow-Up was intended to be designed as a counter for Quick Riposte and Wary Fighter that were capable of shutting down most offensive units almost entirely, but the Weaponbreaker skills ended up being collateral damage in the process. Personally, I think all of the Weaponbreaker skills (and possibly other skills with the same effect, like Assassin Bow and Binding Shield) should retroactively be given the effect of being unable to be neutralized by other skills (i.e. will still interact the same way with other skills that prevent or guarantee follow-ups, but cannot have their effect completely disabled). It's not like Weaponbreaker skills are at all overused, and it will give us better options to deal with certain problem units cough Alm cough basically acting as a self-balancing check against units that become too powerful. And as long as the developers don't abuse the ability to prevent skills from being neutralized, I don't think this would cause any problems going forward (besides possibly individual strong units bringing down the rest of the class by making their Weaponbreaker more common). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoaFerox Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 3 hours ago, Ice Dragon said: Completely unrelated to everything going on in this thread, but I find it really stupid that Null Follow-Up disables Weaponbreaker skills (and my offline friends agree). The Weaponbreaker skills are intended to be extremely powerful against a small handful of units and completely useless otherwise, and it seems completely unnecessary that units running Null Follow-Up can simply just ignore skills specifically intended to disable them. It feels like Null Follow-Up was intended to be designed as a counter for Quick Riposte and Wary Fighter that were capable of shutting down most offensive units almost entirely, but the Weaponbreaker skills ended up being collateral damage in the process. Personally, I think all of the Weaponbreaker skills (and possibly other skills with the same effect, like Assassin Bow and Binding Shield) should retroactively be given the effect of being unable to be neutralized by other skills (i.e. will still interact the same way with other skills that prevent or guarantee follow-ups, but cannot have their effect completely disabled). It's not like Weaponbreaker skills are at all overused, and it will give us better options to deal with certain problem units cough Alm cough basically acting as a self-balancing check against units that become too powerful. And as long as the developers don't abuse the ability to prevent skills from being neutralized, I don't think this would cause any problems going forward (besides possibly individual strong units bringing down the rest of the class by making their Weaponbreaker more common). I had the same thought back when Legendary Alm was released and that skill became more common. It just felt so impossible to counter Alm because no matter what you did he had something that "broke" the established rules, so to speak. I couldn't use my Raventome units with Bowbreaker as counterpicks for him in Arena Assault unless they could one shot him back, and Robin, Sophia and Cecilia definitely don't. And since Alm was that unit I would have to counter like five times in an Arena Assault run it basically made Bowbreaker, a skill which only purpose is to counter colorless bow units, do nothing because the only bow unit that needed countering was always running Null Follow-Up. The Weaponbreaker skills are more strongly neutered by Null Follow-Up than Quick Riposte and Fighter skills are, bacause you usually need them against only one unit on the opponent's team and all it takes is for that unit to be running Null Follow-Up to make it useless. Quick Riposte on the other hand will still be useful against any non-infantry units the opponent might have, so it's still worth running. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Shogi Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 (edited) LH!Lei(I suppose regular Leif too) sounds similar to Ike to me in Japanese despite having different VAs. They share a map select quote so that's probably why. Edited November 2, 2019 by Flying Shogi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daisy jane Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 4 hours ago, BoaFerox said: I had the same thought back when Legendary Alm was released and that skill became more common. It just felt so impossible to counter Alm because no matter what you did he had something that "broke" the established rules, so to speak. I couldn't use my Raventome units with Bowbreaker as counterpicks for him in Arena Assault unless they could one shot him back, and Robin, Sophia and Cecilia definitely don't. And since Alm was that unit I would have to counter like five times in an Arena Assault run it basically made Bowbreaker, a skill which only purpose is to counter colorless bow units, do nothing because the only bow unit that needed countering was always running Null Follow-Up. The Weaponbreaker skills are more strongly neutered by Null Follow-Up than Quick Riposte and Fighter skills are, bacause you usually need them against only one unit on the opponent's team and all it takes is for that unit to be running Null Follow-Up to make it useless. Quick Riposte on the other hand will still be useful against any non-infantry units the opponent might have, so it's still worth running. wait. stop. Bowbreaker doesn't work against alm? goodness i just learned something new. that also sucks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landmaster Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 56 minutes ago, daisy jane said: wait. stop. Bowbreaker doesn't work against alm? goodness i just learned something new. that also sucks Not if he's running NFU~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaden Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 9 hours ago, Ice Dragon said: Personally, I think all of the Weaponbreaker skills (and possibly other skills with the same effect, like Assassin Bow and Binding Shield) should retroactively be given the effect of being unable to be neutralized by other skills (i.e. will still interact the same way with other skills that prevent or guarantee follow-ups, but cannot have their effect completely disabled). Why do I get the feeling this is what will be part of the fourth level of -breaker skills as their upgraded effect compared to the third level? Higher or no HP threshold and not being affected by Null Follow-Up. Or even added damage because why not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Othin Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 9 minutes ago, Kaden said: Why do I get the feeling this is what will be part of the fourth level of -breaker skills as their upgraded effect compared to the third level? Higher or no HP threshold and not being affected by Null Follow-Up. Or even added damage because why not. That'd make a lot of sense. They tend to avoid that sort of change to existing skills, but new levels are fair game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Dragon Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 56 minutes ago, Kaden said: Why do I get the feeling this is what will be part of the fourth level of -breaker skills as their upgraded effect compared to the third level? Higher or no HP threshold and not being affected by Null Follow-Up. Or even added damage because why not. Because their way of "fixing" old skills by adding new skills is garbage and everyone knows it. Weaponbreakers don't need a better HP threshold or an additional effect and I'm sure they are fully aware of that, and if they go this route, they know full well the reason players will pull for Bowbreaker 4 is for the ability to ignore Null Follow-Up. Considering it took them 2 and a half years to add the last Weaponbreaker to the standard summoning pool and the fact that they're still dragging their asses adding the Duel skills (we're still missing C Duel Flying), I have no hopes that this solution would be made in a timely manner at all. There are a total of 9 Weaponbreaker skills that they'd need to get through, and those new skills would literally have zero demand until a broken unit of that weapon type is released (i.e. right now, there would probably only be demand for Bowbreaker and Swordbreaker to a lesser extent). Furthermore, adding new skills just steals skill slots on new units from skills that need more availability. Yes, I'm grumpy today. 2 hours ago, daisy jane said: wait. stop. Bowbreaker doesn't work against alm? goodness i just learned something new. that also sucks Null Follow-Up disables all Weaponbreaker skills. It's utterly broken. 54 minutes ago, Othin said: That'd make a lot of sense. They tend to avoid that sort of change to existing skills, but new levels are fair game. They've already changed Prayer Wheel to make it interact with Dance passive skills differently than originally intended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Othin Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 31 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said: They've already changed Prayer Wheel to make it interact with Dance passive skills differently than originally intended. That was a case of them being unwilling to nerf a skill, even to block a functionality that was only possible through a glitch - they instead opted to make the glitched effect always available. A pretty different situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Dragon Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 40 minutes ago, Othin said: That was a case of them being unwilling to nerf a skill, even to block a functionality that was only possible through a glitch - they instead opted to make the glitched effect always available. A pretty different situation. No, I don't think it had anything to do with an unwillingness to nerf the skill. It was a bug, after all, and fixing bugs is something that should be expected of a game developer. I don't think anyone reasonable would have faulted them for fixing the bug and reverting the behavior to what was originally intended. If I were to make a guess as to why the skill's bugged behavior was made standard, it would be that the behavior opened up interesting gameplay and build options, namely making the Dance passive skills actually worth using. In other words "this bug is cool!" is a far more compelling and believable reason to keep its behavior in place than "cannot nerf ever!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rinco Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 Free pulls haven't been giving me 5* for quite some time, but today I got a Celica on the weekly revival and that was the best possible. Mine was -Spd, so I wanted to get rid of her flaw for quite a while but never got the orbs to go after her. This one is +Def (like my old one), but just not having those horrible -3 Spd makes me happy. She also got +1 Atk from the merge and the +1 Hp shouldn't make it harder for her to get into Brazen/Desperation/WoM range (took me 2 attacks before the merge). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenomata Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 Let's all in America give a giant siiiiiigh as Daylight Savings ends and we lose an hour (gain an hour? I never understood this damn thing). So now the Event Calender being off by a day for the last month should be good and fixed, and the daily reset is at 11pm PST. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLNarshen Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 As an East-coaster I much prefer it this way. Having banner drops and VG rounds end at 10pm instead of 11 is so much more manageable and easier on my sleep schedule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interdimensional Observer Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 26 minutes ago, Xenomata said: Let's all in America give a giant siiiiiigh as Daylight Savings ends and we lose an hour (gain an hour? I never understood this damn thing). Fall back on generic ibuprofen, Spring forward for an Advil, that'll solve your headache. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverserpent Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 5 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said: Fall back on generic ibuprofen, Spring forward for an Advil, that'll solve your headache. but...doesn't that make things all the same? 🤨 (and yes, I get the reference) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilda Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 On 11/2/2019 at 9:53 PM, Ice Dragon said: Null Follow-Up disables all Weaponbreaker skills. It's utterly broken. I dont think the skill is broken per say, it forces a Speed check which was very much needed against all those Bold/Vengefull/Quickriposte shenanigans. The problem is the unit L!Alm itself. However I do agree that Breaker skills need an upgrade that works against Null-Follow up, considering the fact that they are only effective against one Weapon type. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daisy jane Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 Oh this is very interesting. PM1 on his FEH news pointed out that that there were a few cancelled games slated for the 3DS that will potentially make their way to the switch. I wonder what it would be? (bu t it would be great to have another Echoes: Shadows of Elibe (this was PM's choice because Roy is stupid popular) but they went with Gaiden for the first one so maybe it would be Sacred Stones ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Dragon Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 (edited) 58 minutes ago, Hilda said: The problem is the unit L!Alm itself. Alm is just the most egregious case due to being a ranged unit with a default kit that makes full use of Null Follow-Up's potential, but it's a similar issue with a lot of the new extremely fast swords, like Mareeta and Byleth. The main reasons why Mareeta and the Byleths aren't quite so egregious are because they don't have the high availability that Alm has, they're melee units, and Reinhardt exists, but they still have the issue that Swordbreaker is intended to be a hard counter against fast swords, but isn't. Edited November 4, 2019 by Ice Dragon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Othin Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 41 minutes ago, daisy jane said: Oh this is very interesting. PM1 on his FEH news pointed out that that there were a few cancelled games slated for the 3DS that will potentially make their way to the switch. I wonder what it would be? (bu t it would be great to have another Echoes: Shadows of Elibe (this was PM's choice because Roy is stupid popular) but they went with Gaiden for the first one so maybe it would be Sacred Stones ? Gaiden was almost definitely because they're focusing on earlier games first. In particular, the first six weren't originally released outside of Japan, so I think bringing them to a wider audience is likely to make them the highest priorities. If they do more remakes (which I certainly hope they do,) I think the most likely candidates for the next one are FE4 and FE6. Personally, I really want FE5, but that wouldn't happen before FE4. I also think it's decently likely that they'll revisit FE3 at some point, between its original remake never making it out of Japan and Marth being the face of the series. They could follow in the footsteps of original FE3 and include another take on FE1, as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daisy jane Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 5 minutes ago, Othin said: Gaiden was almost definitely because they're focusing on earlier games first. In particular, the first six weren't originally released outside of Japan, so I think bringing them to a wider audience is likely to make them the highest priorities. If they do more remakes (which I certainly hope they do,) I think the most likely candidates for the next one are FE4 and FE6. Personally, I really want FE5, but that wouldn't happen before FE4. I also think it's decently likely that they'll revisit FE3 at some point, between its original remake never making it out of Japan and Marth being the face of the series. They could follow in the footsteps of original FE3 and include another take on FE1, as well. 4 (Genealogy?) 5 (Thracia?) That would be something if those were scheduled for the 3DS - those seem like full fledged console games to me 6 is....ummm (I don't know LOL) I know that Shadow Dragon didn't do well. I remember when I was playing Awakening I was contemplating getting Shadow Dragon and my friend was like a big N-O to it. (now of course it's stupid expensive and I wish Ihadn't listened to him even if it was just to get a cheaper copy) I would assume as well since 3H is kicking all of the behind right now, they want to be careful and ensure each remake it amazing to ride the trend. I just want more FE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRay Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 14 minutes ago, daisy jane said: 6 is....ummm (I don't know LOL) That is Binding Blade, Blazing Sword's sequel. 15 minutes ago, daisy jane said: I know that Shadow Dragon didn't do well. I remember when I was playing Awakening I was contemplating getting Shadow Dragon and my friend was like a big N-O to it. (now of course it's stupid expensive and I wish Ihadn't listened to him even if it was just to get a cheaper copy) If you have the dough, I always recommend getting collectible stuff early in case the price rises later. However, I agree with your friend that Shadow Dragon is not great. After playing Sacred Stones, Shadow Dragon leaves a super nasty taste in my mouth. Not only does it have uglier graphics and got no post game, but I am forced to kill off my army to access extra chapters, and to drive home the point that you need to kill your army, you are forced to kill off somebody (most people pick Jagen) in the first chapter. It soured my mood for the game and I only played a few more chapters at best after that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Othin Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 38 minutes ago, daisy jane said: 4 (Genealogy?) 5 (Thracia?) That would be something if those were scheduled for the 3DS - those seem like full fledged console games to me 6 is....ummm (I don't know LOL) I know that Shadow Dragon didn't do well. I remember when I was playing Awakening I was contemplating getting Shadow Dragon and my friend was like a big N-O to it. (now of course it's stupid expensive and I wish Ihadn't listened to him even if it was just to get a cheaper copy) I would assume as well since 3H is kicking all of the behind right now, they want to be careful and ensure each remake it amazing to ride the trend. I just want more FE. I don't see a problem with putting Genealogy or Thracia on the 3DS. They started as SNES games, they shouldn't be any harder to remake than FE2 or FE3. 18 minutes ago, XRay said: That is Binding Blade, Blazing Sword's sequel. If you have the dough, I always recommend getting collectible stuff early in case the price rises later. However, I agree with your friend that Shadow Dragon is not great. After playing Sacred Stones, Shadow Dragon leaves a super nasty taste in my mouth. Not only does it have uglier graphics and got no post game, but I am forced to kill off my army to access extra chapters, and to drive home the point that you need to kill your army, you are forced to kill off somebody (most people pick Jagen) in the first chapter. It soured my mood for the game and I only played a few more chapters at best after that. SD has a lot of issues, but both the visuals and the "rewards for killing people" things are easily fixable in another remake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 No trailer? Shouldn't we have gotten one since the banner is on the 6th? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tybrosion Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 4 minutes ago, Anacybele said: No trailer? Shouldn't we have gotten one since the banner is on the 6th? It’s actually the 7th due to the calendar being a day off (the Valentina banner also ends on the 7th), but yeah they could’ve dropped the trailer tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 There doesn’t seem to be any pattern as to when the trailer is released. Leif’s was the day before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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