New info on FE Warriors

[Medeus]

I can't say I'm surprised by the roster restriction, the initial trailer only had those three games appear, so I figured that would be the only ones getting representation in the initial game. I won't deny I'm a little disappointed about that as I would've liked to have had characters like Lyn and Ike playable, but it does make sense to start small and go from there.

As for the characters that are feasible now, just give me Tiki (SD or Awakening), Linde, and Minerva/Michalis in the initial roster and I'll take it.

[AstraSage]

4 hours ago, pumpkinspice48 said:

It's also weird there's no one from echoes.  You'd think they'd want to advertise the newest game.

One of the bullet points of the article was that the game was in production before Famitsu's Dream Musou Poll back on 2015's November, putting its start in the middle of the few months Fates was only released in Japan, and if remember well Echoes had a surprisingly short development period done by pretty much IS's B-Team working with unused ideas for Fates so I'd be amazed if the Warriors team's supervisors could've gotten any Echoes-related  idea on that span...

That said, I could expect Alm, Celica and a another Valentian coming as DLC a few months after the release.

Edited May 30, 2017 by AstraSage

[Anacybele]

3 minutes ago, Glaceon Sage said:

Lyn was pretty much the original FE Waifu^TM in the west, I highly doubt that spiting Lucina is what got most of her votes, since Lyn was beating her out even before the mid-term.

Yeah, this.

I will never understand IS's mindset that only Archanea and the most recent titles will bring money to them. Didn't TMS and the Heroes poll teach them anything? We threw in their faces that plenty of classic characters from Tellius, Magvel, and Elibe are just as loved! It's CLEAR that putting a few of them in the base game would bring in more initial sales.

Note, I'm not saying everyone should be in the base game, obviously. That leaves less DLC fodder. Ike and Lyn and maybe Roy in the base game, then add characters like Ephraim, Eirika, Hector, Elincia, Micaiah, etc. via DLC.

Hell, I bet adding in just Ike alone to the base game would've made this thing bring in lots of extra cash. Both his FE incarnations scored very high on that Heroes poll and he also won the Famitsu poll. I know it would make FE Warriors and insta-buy for me. I love Ike so much that I want just about anything with him in it. :P

[Captain Karnage]

5 minutes ago, shadowofchaos said:

I understand the "no buy" reactions. I understand the disappointment.

It's just that people react so badly to said bitter pill.

If anything I can understand reacting badly as you've seen the worst parts of me.

I just got told (unintentionally) via assumption that I don't understand people whose favorite game isn't Awakening when I spent the better part of 7 years being a hacker to Blazing Sword.

I'm going to take a break from this thread.

when I originally read that post I read it as, I don't care what you think I like this

I never said you didn't understand people whose favorite game isn't Awakening

I'm sorry, it's my bad that I misinterpreted what you said

[Tolvir]

1 hour ago, Captain Karnage said:

I don't think anybody really is, I think we;re all just really disapointed

we could have at least gotten 1 or 2, story be damned

Not everybody's favorite is game in the series is Awakening or the other three. I know why yours is yours.

I think we all wanted to see a little bit of the other games represented, by only having the 3 sagas 1 of which has nothing to do with the other 2

 

They said mostly, which literally no one here is paying attention to. As Shadow of Chaos said they put out DLC as much as Star Wars whores out merchandise, so the likelyhood of characters that people love outside of those games is extremely high. Also, the main roster will still have multiple characters outside of the games. They said mostly, Ike and Roy are shoe ins just because of Smash. Lyn and Hector are likely due to their popularity in the West and in Japan, Alm and Celica have a chance due to their game being released this year.

Quote

Think about it like this, remember how people were really upset that Maga Man wasn't in Marvel vs. Capcom 3, of corse it really hurts people caring about a crossover game if their favorite character isn't in it.

the thing is that FE has over 25 years of history on 15 games and yet they only picked 3 games out of it, you shouldn't be upset that people are upset at this game for only using 3 games

Its literally impossible to appeal to every single fan of the series. They had to make a decision here that no matter what choice happened was going to ruffle some feathers. It was just a matter of ruffling the FE communities feathers for about a month, or potentially driving away customers for its release. Why do I say this? Well we have almost 18 games in the series now, 15 if you want to exclude Switch and Heroes, and 14 if you want to exclude SoV due to it being a remake. Regardless, that is a lot of games to pour over for characters. And these casts are not small. Gaiden had one of the smallest casts in the series at 33 characters. 33. Most games have 10 at most. Radiant Dawn took that number to 73, and Fates took it around there too. So just from 2 games you already have over 140 characters to look at for a game that at most will have around 40. Hell, the series as a whole probably has somewhere around 300 characters or more in total. So unless we wanted 2 characters from each game with maybe a Lord and 1 other at most, then they had  to make the call to focus on a few games. They sure as hell werent going to focus on Holy War and Thracia, they never released here. They also werent going to focus on Elibe and Magvel, they have been out of the picture aside from Smash and Heroes for nearly 15 years. Tellius was one of the lowest points in the series in terms of sales. So of course Shadow Dragon, Fates, and Awakening were ultimately going to be the focus. they are popular, they are recent and fresh on everyones minds, they have the attention of all the new fans, and Shadow Dragon will draw in the old. They made the best decision they could with what they were given.

 

Edited May 30, 2017 by Tolvir

[Raguna]

3 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Yeah, this.

I will never understand IS's mindset that only Archanea and the most recent titles will bring money to them. Didn't TMS and the Heroes poll teach them anything? We threw in their faces that plenty of classic characters from Tellius, Magvel, and Elibe are just as loved! It's CLEAR that putting a few of them in the base game would bring in more initial sales.

Note, I'm not saying everyone should be in the base game, obviously. That leaves less DLC fodder. Ike and Lyn and maybe Roy in the base game, then add characters like Ephraim, Eirika, Hector, Elincia, Micaiah, etc. via DLC.

Hell, I bet adding in just Ike alone to the base game would've made this thing bring in lots of extra cash. Both his FE incarnations scored very high on that Heroes poll and he also won the Famitsu poll. I know it would make FE Warriors and insta-buy for me. I love Ike so much that I want just about anything with him in it. :P

Actually a darker twist on this would be making Ike arrive as DLC. Due to his big popularity a good amount of people would buy him while Nintendo gets more cash. Since if we're being honest while I love Sigurd, Seliph and Leif, do you honestly expect them to sell as much as Ike, Lyn or Ephraim if they were dlc?

This is more of a hypothetical and so far we know Nintendo isn't afraid of trying to gain as much as they can from this series.

[Arthur97]

24 minutes ago, Folt said:

Counterpoint: Awakening and Fates do have most fans' favorite (and even second-favorite) characters.

True that. It's a shame that the FE fanbase seems so bitter.

21 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Not really.

Going by the Heroes poll, Ike, Lyn, Roy, Hector, Ephraim, Eirika, Micaiah, and others are fan favorites too. These characters were all in the top ten for their respective genders, and Ike and Lyn were the winners.

Chrom, Lucina, Camilla, Tharja, and maybe Cordelia and Azura are the 3DS big fan favorites. For Shadow Dragon there's...Marth and Caeda? That's pretty much it. So only about half the actual fan favorites are going to be in this.

Also, "this won't be a gathering of protagonists from across the series" could very well apply to the DLC.

Can we stop with this poll? It's shaky at best give how many variables pollute the results. Besides, you also have to consider that most of the older games high ranking characters were main characters while secondary characters like Cordelia and Donnel did well from the 3DS era. Not to mention, the rest of the entire series gets to about the same amount of characters as the two 3DS games combined. Plus, Awakening and Fates were the games with the most and second most votes per game respectively. Clearly they are more popular as a whole. Plus this way you can avoid completely rehashing Smash with Roy, Ike, and to a lesser extent, Lyn.

[Interdimensional Observer]

When I first saw what TMS was actually going to be, I became incredibly bitter about it and said there was no way I would buy it.

But, because I like SMT games, when I found out the gameplay was good, I started becoming interested in getting the game again. Eventually I bought it and just mashed through the plot scenes and character sidequests. I didn't regret it. The combat and dungeon design were good, and I appreciate the game wholly on those grounds. Save for a little appreciation of the cast, music, and aesthetics.

If the gameplay is good, I'll get around to buying FE Warriors sooner or later just the same. Despite whatever bitterness I may have at the moment. Fanservice is something I'm trying to rid myself of any attachment to. 

[Folt]

7 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Yeah, this.

I will never understand IS's mindset that only Archanea and the most recent titles will bring money to them. Didn't TMS and the Heroes poll teach them anything? We threw in their faces that plenty of classic characters from Tellius, Magvel, and Elibe are just as loved! It's CLEAR that putting a few of them in the base game would bring in more initial sales.

Note, I'm not saying everyone should be in the base game, obviously. That leaves less DLC fodder. Ike and Lyn and maybe Roy in the base game, then add characters like Ephraim, Eirika, Hector, Elincia, Micaiah, etc. via DLC.

Hell, I bet adding in just Ike alone to the base game would've made this thing bring in lots of extra cash. Both his FE incarnations scored very high on that Heroes poll and he also won the Famitsu poll. I know it would make FE Warriors and insta-buy for me. I love Ike so much that I want just about anything with him in it. :P

Now, here's the thing: Is it Elibe, Tellius, and Magvel which has the highest density of characters that the majority actually remembers at this point in time? And how many "old" fans are there really who doesn't have at least a couple or more characters that they like which do come from Awakening and Fates?

[Arthur97]

Just now, Folt said:

Now, here's the thing: Is it Elibe, Tellius, and Magvel which has the highest density of characters that the majority actually remembers at this point in time? And how many "old" fans are there really who doesn't have at least a couple or more characters that they like which do come from Awakening and Fates?

You did bring up a minor problem with the newer base in that, yes, most of the older characters were from two or three games as well, but I still stand by that most if not all were main characters...or Dorcas.

[Anacybele]

5 minutes ago, Folt said:

Now, here's the thing: Is it Elibe, Tellius, and Magvel which has the highest density of characters that the majority actually remembers at this point in time? And how many "old" fans are there really who doesn't have at least a couple or more characters that they like which do come from Awakening and Fates?

Plenty, I'm sure.

Take me, for example. Frederick, Silas, and Ryoma are my favorite 3DS characters. But only that third one is pretty much a guarantee. Frederick and Silas are not popular or anything, though Frederick would still make sense since Chrom is in because we all know how Frederick is about his duties to his lord and lady.

One character in Ryoma is not enough for me to buy this game. I also like Cordelia and Azura, but they're not top favorites and wouldn't be enough to make me buy the game either. Besides, I can see Tharja being picked over Cordelia and I hate her.

I'm still passing on this game right now. There's always a chance I could change my mind down the road, but right now, yeah, no buy.

Edited May 30, 2017 by Anacybele

[Arthur97]

1 minute ago, Anacybele said:

Plenty, I'm sure.

Take me, for example. Frederick, Silas, and Ryoma are my favorite 3DS characters. But only that third one is pretty much a guarantee. Frederick and Silas are not popular or anything, though Frederick would still make sense since Chrom is in because we all know how Frederick is about his duties to his lord and lady.

One character in Ryoma is not enough for me to buy this game. I also like Cordelia and Azura, but they're not top favorites and wouldn't be enough to make me buy the game either. Besides, I can see Tharja being picked over Cordelia and I hate her.

I wouldn't rule out Frederick after this revelation. Still, a problem that this forum seems to share with another community I've dabbled in, is a touch of arrogance in that the much larger casual audience if often ignored. They are who needs to be pandered to. People here can clamor that the older characters were better and had more depth, but at the end of the day, it doesn't matter. While older games have a few really popular characters, the new ones have that and then some with popular minor characters.

[Anacybele]

14 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

Can we stop with this poll? It's shaky at best give how many variables pollute the results. Besides, you also have to consider that most of the older games high ranking characters were main characters while secondary characters like Cordelia and Donnel did well from the 3DS era. Not to mention, the rest of the entire series gets to about the same amount of characters as the two 3DS games combined. Plus, Awakening and Fates were the games with the most and second most votes per game respectively. Clearly they are more popular as a whole. Plus this way you can avoid completely rehashing Smash with Roy, Ike, and to a lesser extent, Lyn.

"Awakening and Fates characters are more popular"

Then why were Ike and Lyn the winners? Hell, the only top 5 male from a 3DS game in the poll was Chrom.

I get that this game's development likely started well before the Heroes poll was a thing. But even back then, Ike and Roy were both pretty popular and iconic (though the latter only because of Smash) and Lyn had presence in Smash as an assist trophy.

You're not "rehashing Smash" if you're including many more characters than just those who appeared in Smash...

Admittedly, Hyrule Warriors didn't have many of my favorite Zelda characters either (it didn't have any Four Sword Zelda characters period, not even in DLC, which sucked), but I'm fine with Link and at least there was Fi and Ghirahim. And there aren't really any characters I downright dislike/hate. FE Warriors will surely have a few that I despise (Lucina, Camilla, and Tharja to name the main ones).

Edited May 30, 2017 by Anacybele

[Von Ithipathachai]

19 minutes ago, Raguna said:

Actually a darker twist on this would be making Ike arrive as DLC. Due to his big popularity a good amount of people would buy him while Nintendo gets more cash. Since if we're being honest while I love Sigurd, Seliph and Leif, do you honestly expect them to sell as much as Ike, Lyn or Ephraim if they were dlc?

This is more of a hypothetical and so far we know Nintendo isn't afraid of trying to gain as much as they can from this series.

This possibility also crossed my mind and it absolutely disgusts me.

Still, wouldn't it make more sense to include Ike in the main game so that more people would buy it?  After all, you can't sell people DLC without selling them the game first, right?

...RIGHT?

Edited May 30, 2017 by Von Ithipathachai

[Folt]

Just now, Anacybele said:

Plenty, I'm sure.

Take me, for example. Frederick, Silas, and Ryoma are my favorite 3DS characters. But only that third one is pretty much a guarantee. Frederick and Silas are not popular or anything, though Frederick would still make sense since Chrom is in because we all know how Frederick is about his duties to his lord and lady.

One character in Ryoma is not enough for me to buy this game. I also like Cordelia and Azura, but they're not top favorites and wouldn't be enough to make me buy the game either. Besides, I can see Tharja being picked over Cordelia and I hate her.

I'd wager you're not as plenty as you would like to be.

Honestly, were it up to me in the past, I still wouldn't bother to play a Link in Hyrule Warriors unless I really really needed to, but his movesets has been some of the most fun movesets I've ever tangled with, and he has become one of my top 5 people to play as in HW, even if I actually kinda loathed having to play as him at first. (I wanted to play as Ganondorf, not the goody-two-shoes I'm playing as for every other Zelda game!)

Characters like Zant and Yuga were also meh (in the case of Zant) or one of my lesser liked villains (in the case of Yuga). But then when I thought of the gameplay possibilities of having them in this game (or witnessed in the case of Zant) they became some of my favorite Zelda characters in that game and in general.

Besides, with the restriction on what characters they can take from actual Fire Emblem games, the chances for some out-there choices from what's essentially two of my three favorite Fire Emblem games have basically gone up a bit which is great!

(Since I now don't need to worry too much about making space for every popular character just because.)

[DarkDestr0yer61]

1 minute ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

This possibility also crossed my mind and it absolutely disgusts me.

Still, wouldn't it make more sense to include Ike in the main game so that more people would buy it?  After all, you can't sell people DLC without selling them the game first, right?

...RIGHT?

Honestly, I think its too early for "what if" scenarios

[Tolvir]

They get the idea that Awakening and Fates will bring them money because, guess what? They sold the most in the series. They brought them the most money. Money, Moolah. Dead Presidents. Jingly Things. Do you think Holy War is going to draw in as much of a crowd as Fates? It hasnt even been released internationally, and its nearly 20 years old. Magvel/Elibe is almost 15. Tellius had some of the worst sales in the series.

Shadow Dragon is their flagship. Its like Mario to almost everything Nintendo, or Arthas and Thrall to everything Warcraft, or Spider Man/Captain America to everything Marvel. Marth is the poster boy of Fire Emblem, and Shadow Dragon started it all.

Awakening both gave the jolt of energy FE needed and sold really well. For as many of you may hate to admit this, its the entire reason we are even talking about Fire Emblem Warriors, or playing Fire Emblem Echoes, or talking about Fire Emblem Switch. So its kind of obvious why its got the focus it does.

Fates only continued the trend, selling more copies than most games in the series. It also had some of the best advertising the series has ever received.

What Awakening and Fates also have over all the others is they are fresh on everyones minds. They just released in the past 5 years. You show a gamer a picture of a Fates or Awakening character they could probably point out that it is Fire Emblem. You do the same with one of the 50 rainbow mullet wearing characters of Holy War they will probably have no clue other than its from the 90s.

So yes, they do think Fates Awakening and Shadow Dragon will sell their game. Not based on some silly notion, but on the fact that they already sold the most in the series.

And I want to add a few things onto this. First off, this is Koei Tecmo making this decision. They have made very succesful Warriors games of popular series in the past, they know what the hell they are doing. Just look at the number of characters we have to deal with here. Combining Fates and Tellius together, you already have over 140 characters for a roster that will have at most 40-50 including DLC. And that is only 3 games of the 18 we have to choose from. 33 from SoV. Somewhere around 50 for Awakening. 67 for Holy War. We are now over 200 characters, and still have half the series to go. Get my point yet? We have a ton of character to sort through. They had to focus on someone, and focusing on Fates, Awakening, and Shadow Dragon was inevitable.

And again, they said mostly. As in most of the characters will be from them, not all. I dont feel like repeating myself for the third time on this, but I already pointed out twice what characters have chances of making it into the base game alone. So please everyone, calm down and stop acting like IS just kicked a puppy. That would be Koei Tecmo.

Edited May 30, 2017 by Tolvir

[Arthur97]

1 minute ago, Anacybele said:

"Awakening and Fates characters are more popular"

Then why were Ike and Lyn the winners? Hell, the only top 5 male from a 3DS game in the poll was Chrom.

I get that this game's development likely started well before the Heroes poll was a thing. But even back then, Ike and Roy were both pretty popular and iconic (though the latter only because of Smash) and Lyn had presence in Smash as an assist trophy.

You're not "rehashing Smash" if you're including many more characters than just those who appeared in Smash...

You're not listening, the old games may have a few really popular characters, but the new ones have a broader range of liked characters: like Cordelia, Donnel (who wasn't even in the main chapters), Nowi, Tharja, Henry, and Lon'qu who all made the top 25 (I didn't include the Fates siblings since I consider them minor protagonists).

In any case, I really think you put too much stock in that poll. As has been stated, it was far from perfect. I wonder, if they had not won and, say Lucina and Chrom won, would you be referencing it so much?

[Anacybele]

5 minutes ago, Folt said:

I'd wager you're not as plenty as you would like to be.

Way to be a smartass. Of course I'm not "plenty" I was just using myself as an example. But I've seen people say that they generally don't like Awakening's or Fates's casts. I can't quote them directly since it was some time ago, but I've seen it.

4 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

I wonder, if they had not won and, say Lucina and Chrom won, would you be referencing it so much?

If Ike, Lyn, and other older characters still ranked really high, I would.

@Tolvir Show them a picture of Ike or Roy and maybe Lyn and they'd probably recognize them as FE characters too.

Edited May 30, 2017 by Anacybele

[FireEmblemFan93]

1 hour ago, Captain Karnage said:

I wasn't trying to shame anybody for liking Awakening, I felt like they were just pandering to just the new players

I don't think it creepy it looks to me(your avatar). I understand why they are the most recent games, excluding Marth games. Chrom and Corrin games are more known there are characters from Heroes who are popular but only the characters are popular not their games. Prime example is Roy or Ike since only a handful played Roy game and Ike games selling like crap. 

[Azz]

3 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Way to be a smartass. Of course I'm not "plenty" I was just using myself as an example. But I've seen people say that they generally don't like Awakening's or Fates's casts. I can't quote them directly since it was some time ago, but I've seen it.

If Ike, Lyn, and other older characters still ranked really high, I would.

@Tolvir Show them a picture of Ike or Roy and maybe Lyn and they'd probably recognize them as FE characters too.

And they probably would, because of Smash or Heroes, and not actually playing a main title FE game.

[Anacybele]

4 minutes ago, FireEmblemFan93 said:

Prime example is Roy or Ike since only a handful played Roy game and Ike games selling like crap. 

Correction: Ike's games did sell poorly, but few people played them because of how inaccessible they've been for so long. I bet if they were re-released, we'd see much more love for them because of Ike being in it to draw more fans into buying them.

@Azz So? They're still popular, and I'd actually argue that Lyn's popularity stems more from her own game than Smash since she's not playable in Smash. And Ike still has plenty of love from actual FE fans (see the Famitsu poll and all). And Heroes is a main title FE game, by the way.

Edited May 30, 2017 by Anacybele

[Quintessence]

2 hours ago, Soledai said:

??? WO3 and it's 120+ characters isn't a structure?? And not counting spin-offs(and if we were, I'd point you to Gundam), musous regularly churn out about 40-60 characters, so what structure are you referring to again?

Anyway, I want to think I know what you're trying to say, and I don't think the people that are upset wanted a "shitton of characters". I'm gonna guess by the reactions they wanted something that wasn't so obviously expected, or so I imagine, which was perfectly fine, so the disappointment is fairly expected. And no, the cast of characters in musous have each had characterization. Hell, DW9 is going back to character based stories with it's 80-some characters

No, I was referring to TMS. As an RPG with a different setting there wasn't room for a bunch of characters, that's what I'm addressing.

Also, terribly sorry for skipping 4 pages of posts, I'll go read them!

[Arthur97]

1 minute ago, Azz said:

And they probably would, because of Smash or Heroes, and not actually playing a main title FE game.

Yep. People seem to forget that a game like Smash ripples a lot.

[Anacybele]

2 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

Yep. People seem to forget that a game like Smash ripples a lot.

Only mostly applies to Roy though. Ike has plenty of fans within the FE fandom (even though he did gain more fans from Smash) and Lyn isn't even playable in Smash. Blazing Sword gets plenty of love as a game and so does she as a character as far as I've seen.

Also, another thing about the Heroes poll, I doubt every Smash player that liked Ike voted in that poll. Why would they if they like Smash, but aren't into FE?

I like Falco, but Star Fox is not my kind of game. You can like a character but not the series said character is from.

Edited May 30, 2017 by Anacybele