New info on FE Warriors

[Person with good opinions]

I'm not sure why there are people getting offended(?) about people reacting negatively to this. Maybe you feel different, but for a lot of people, including myself, the fun of musou games is to go wild with your favorite characters, since the actual games are rather shallow. The only character from Archanea I'm a really big fan of is Camus, and while there are a few decent ones in Awakening and Fates, there are none I would ever consider calling my favorites (there are plenty of characters from them I loathe, however). So of course I'm not going to be interested in the game after this latest information. Camus can't carry an entire game by himself for me. Especially not if I end up having to contend with characters like Tharja or Peri as well.

[Folt]

Just now, Quintessence said:

What if they add Astram, Camus, Jeorge, Merric and Linde as Regalia units! HYPE

That could possibly happen. Hardin is another possibility.

I'm also kinda hoping for Gangrel, Walhart, and Garon as playable villains: Gangrel is a thief who could use the magic-slinging Levin Sword, Walhart is a heavily armored Axe user on a horse, and Garon is also an Axe user but there are certain spoilery stuff about him that would certainly make for a very unique, cool moveset gameplay-wise on his part if he was playable (or even fightable).

[bethany81707]

6 minutes ago, shadowofchaos said:

"This game sucks now".

I mean holy crap, having a character people like moves titles, I'm sure. But how do we know that opinion of "this game sucks" would have changed if they have never tried a game of this style?

(Remember that my disappointment/anger comes from a different direction to most other people- I am not unfamiliar with the Archanea and Ylisse characters, but my memory is so foggy I might as well be).

You've got to provide a hook. "Here's an unfamiliar game with unfamiliar characters" is why I don't care about ARMS. Smash providing the latter is why so many cite it as a gateway series. "Here's another crossover with Archanea, Ylisse and Moirai" is not a hook unless the 3DS introduced you to the series. The fallicious reasoning people keep dredging up as to why it's limited to Archanea, Ylisse and Moirai is not a proper excuse. "Too many swords" is not a proper excuse. You could literally patch Casual Mode into Path of Radiance, sell it on the VC, and probably get larger sales than it did thirteen years ago entirely because Smash Bros exists. Hell, you probably don't even need the patch.

Does it sound like I'm angry? Because I probably am, and no amount of telling me "you shouldn't be angry" is going to fix that. I liked Hyrule Warriors. My brother liked Hyrule Warriors. If we could, this would be a good game to play together. But our family isn't in the position to get a Switch. The 3DS version cuts out that sibling bonding time, leaving me with nothing but a game that fills the niche of "Hyrule Warriors Legends meets Fire Emblem Heroes"- not worth $60, and Heroes at least has characters I can tell you more than their name and one personality trait.

Rant over. I am not going to sleep anytime soon with my blood pressure like this. Good thing I don't have uni tomorrow.

[Soledai]

12 minutes ago, Quintessence said:

The structure of the game itself couldn't allow the addition of the shitton characters FE has, and it is far better to strongly develop and produce a few characters rather than have a world of units with little to zero characterization.

??? WO3 and it's 120+ characters isn't a structure?? And not counting spin-offs(and if we were, I'd point you to Gundam), musous regularly churn out about 40-60 characters, so what structure are you referring to again?

Anyway, I want to think I know what you're trying to say, and I don't think the people that are upset wanted a "shitton of characters". I'm gonna guess by the reactions they wanted something that wasn't so obviously expected, or so I imagine, which was perfectly fine, so the disappointment is fairly expected. And no, the cast of characters in musous have each had characterization. Hell, DW9 is going back to character based stories with it's 80-some characters

[Iridium]

Yeah, the whole 'just Archanea, Awakening, and Fates' thing doesn't surprise me at all. I've been trying to tell people this would be the case for like a year, but naturally nobody wanted to hear it. In a vacuum, I don't even really mind; partly because I have no serious love for Elibe and Tellius relative to other continuities (and I'm used to Jugdral and Magvel getting ignored) but mostly because I understand that this was something of an inevitability to get an actually interesting group of characters instead of just the 2-3 protagonists from each game with maybe a couple of standouts like Tharja and Tiki.

To that end I even sympathize with the "too many sword users" claim. But that all kinda falls apart when all of the OCs they've shown off so far wield swords. Like, Christ, that's the main benefit to even introducing an OC and they don't even go along with it. They could easily have introduced someone from an underrepresented weapon type like Light Magic (basically just Linde) or Daggers/Shuriken (Kaze or Felicia, I'd imagine), but nope, we need to flood the ocean with more swords. Even I'm a little disappointed now.

I think we can pretty much assume that Linde, Merric, Tharja, and Robin are locks as the strongest playable representatives of their respective elements (light, wind, darkness, and thunder), unless Linde's magic gets handed off to a cleric (probably Lena, Wrys, or Elise since Sakura and Lissa have other weapons) for some reason. Technically Gharnef and Validar would be stronger than Tharja, I guess, but you know she's getting in anyway.

Edited May 30, 2017 by Iridium
clarification on the darkness

[DarkDestr0yer61]

Soledai, I *think* he was referring to TMS....

Anywho, kind of echoing what Quintessence and other people said. Tokyo Mirage sessions was still a great game in my opinion, probably one of the best games on the Wii U. And it didn't even include characters from my favorite Fire Emblem. Because of the game play was good and it didn't change because of the cast.

That's kind of the point that I feel like Rey is making (correct me if I am wrong). Saying that the game "sucks" is a bit dumb when the gameplay won't change because of what games they plan on pulling characters from.... also I feel like it's way too early for people to start grabbing their torches and pitchforks

Edited May 30, 2017 by DarkDestr0yer61

[Folt]

1 minute ago, phineas81707 said:

(Remember that my disappointment/anger comes from a different direction to most other people- I am not unfamiliar with the Archanea and Ylisse characters, but my memory is so foggy I might as well be).

You've got to provide a hook. "Here's an unfamiliar game with unfamiliar characters" is why I don't care about ARMS. Smash providing the latter is why so many cite it as a gateway series. "Here's another crossover with Archanea, Ylisse and Moirai" is not a hook unless the 3DS introduced you to the series. The fallicious reasoning people keep dredging up as to why it's limited to Archanea, Ylisse and Moirai is not a proper excuse. "Too many swords" is not a proper excuse. You could literally patch Casual Mode into Path of Radiance, sell it on the VC, and probably get larger sales than it did thirteen years ago entirely because Smash Bros exists. Hell, you probably don't even need the patch.

Does it sound like I'm angry? Because I probably am, and no amount of telling me "you shouldn't be angry" is going to fix that. I liked Hyrule Warriors. My brother liked Hyrule Warriors. If we could, this would be a good game to play together. But our family isn't in the position to get a Switch. The 3DS version cuts out that sibling bonding time, leaving me with nothing but a game that fills the niche of "Hyrule Warriors Legends meets Fire Emblem Heroes"- not worth $60, and Heroes at least has characters I can tell you more than their name and one personality trait.

Rant over. I am not going to sleep anytime soon with my blood pressure like this. Good thing I don't have uni tomorrow.

Here's the thing though, Shadow Dragon/Awakening/Fates is already a pretty good hook for most new fans, especially now that we know that the roster will be larger than usual First FEs meaning there's a higher chance of a lesser popular character from those games to be on the playables list, which will be satisfying for those fans. It does mean you're in the minority who don't have any character from the popular games to like and play with, but I'll take that over possibly having a roster full of swords with only two (maybe three) characters I want to play as compared to the now-likely event that I'll have 10, or even more.

You said you would have wanted Tana, did you not? You probably wouldn't see her anyway until a hypothetical fourth or fifth installment because Sacred Stones isn't very popular. How long would you have needed to wait if Eirika and Ephraim did rep it since the beginning? Probably about as long.

I would have very much liked to see Tana in high-def because she was... um, nevermind.

1 minute ago, Soledai said:

??? WO3 and it's 120+ characters isn't a structure?? And not counting spin-offs(and if we were, I'd point you to Gundam), musous regularly churn out about 40-60 characters, so what structure are you referring to again?

Anyway, I want to think I know what you're trying to say, and I don't think the people that are upset wanted a "shitton of characters". I'm gonna guess by the reactions they wanted something that wasn't so obviously expected, or so I imagine, which was perfectly fine, so the disappointment is fairly expected. And no, the cast of characters in musous have each had characterization. Hell, DW9 is going back to character based stories with it's 80-some characters

The fact that it is only the first Musou crossover with Fire Emblem. Musou crossovers (bar Orochi, mostly because they take characters from two series that already have, among other things, defined movesets) tend to have a small roster on their first game, so the fact that we're actually gonna get a larger-than-standard roster size already makes this pretty ambitious. Among other things, a larger roster + restrictions on the games they can pull from coupled with the "Bond conversations" means there should be a large number of sensible interactions amongst the cast.

[Von Ithipathachai]

40 minutes ago, Sayyyaka said:

Woah, another sword user.

I rest my case.

In all honesty, though, I do like his look.  He kind of reminds me of Hector.  If only he had a Lance instead.

[shadowofchaos]

This is the dream:

Spoiler

Did you people really expect this on the first installment?

Especially with the history of the Musou series rosters building over time?

Did you really expect the hook for the minority who have played FE4 or FE8?

I'd love nothing more than to control Roy in a beat em up style vs the Black Knight. But do I expect it on the first title? No.

Edited May 30, 2017 by shadowofchaos

[Folt]

10 minutes ago, Iridium said:

I think we can pretty much assume that Linde, Merric, Tharja, and Robin are locks as the strongest playable representatives of their respective elements (light, wind, darkness, and thunder), unless Linde's magic gets handed off to a cleric (probably Lena, Wrys, or Elise since Sakura and Lissa have other weapons) for some reason. Technically Gharnef and Validar would be stronger than Tharja, I guess, but you know she's getting in anyway.

They'd certainly be the most iconic representatives of their elements as magic users, that's for sure. Playable male Robin with Thoron mowing down hordes of enemies is getting likelier and likelier (+ meaningful interactions for him with other characters; I want to see a Robin and Leo conversation).

[Captain Karnage]

1 hour ago, Hardin said:

I can't believe that anyone is actually surprised by this.

I don't think anybody really is, I think we;re all just really disapointed

55 minutes ago, Tolvir said:

I think everyone set their expectations way too high for this. Expecting to see Magvel and Elibe characters was a huge longshot, and even worst for those of Holy War and Tellius. Holy War/Thracia/and FE 6 never released in the West, Elibe has been mostly absent for 10+ years alongside Magvel, and Tellius was one of the lowest points in the series in terms of sales. Expecting to see huge amounts of representation across those games was wishful thinking at best.

Not meaning to tear anyone down here, but you have to think about the status of each of these eras and their relevance today. Of course they are going to go with their flagship character, and the two most recent/popular games. Its going to draw the largest crowd. And keep in mind they said mostly. In other words, DLC and a few slots in the base game for characters is probably likely. I am willing to bet all Smash characters make it in, and I wouldnt be surprised to at least see Alm and Celica considering SoV's release. I wouldnt go expecting to see any Holy War characters outside of maybe Seliph, and maybe Lyn, Hector, and Eliwood as DLC for Elibe. Outside of that, costumes at best.

we could have at least gotten 1 or 2, story be damned

33 minutes ago, shadowofchaos said:

I love that people say "this game sucks" all because character reps aren't.

This really means you never really wanted a Musou game. Only that you wanted your favorite characters in it.

There is a difference between being understandably disappointed and being judgmental.

Not everybody's favorite is game in the series is Awakening or the other three. I know why yours is yours.

I think we all wanted to see a little bit of the other games represented, by only having the 3 sagas 1 of which has nothing to do with the other 2

 

11 minutes ago, shadowofchaos said:

Disappointment is expected.

But damn people who call this game trash already *and* they happen to mention that they never cared about FE Musou if their favorite character wasn't in.

Like damn what about the people that like the concept regardless of the roster?

think about it like this, remember how people were really upset that Maga Man wasn't in Marvel vs. Capcom 3, of corse it really hurts people caring about a crossover game if their favorite character isn't in it.

the thing is that FE has over 25 years of history on 15 games and yet they only picked 3 games out of it, you shouldn't be upset that people are upset at this game for only using 3 games

[Von Ithipathachai]

25 minutes ago, phineas81707 said:

You've got to provide a hook. "Here's an unfamiliar game with unfamiliar characters" is why I don't care about ARMS. Smash providing the latter is why so many cite it as a gateway series. "Here's another crossover with Archanea, Ylisse and Moirai" is not a hook unless the 3DS introduced you to the series.

Hold on a second...  Is Moirai the name of the Fates continent?  If so, where did that come from?

[Reflex]

People so mad it's like Persona 4 Utlimax was announced.

[Aiddon]

6 minutes ago, Soledai said:

??? WO3 and it's 120+ characters isn't a structure?? And not counting spin-offs(and if we were, I'd point you to Gundam), musous regularly churn out about 40-60 characters, so what structure are you referring to again?

Anyway, I want to think I know what you're trying to say, and I don't think the people that are upset wanted a "shitton of characters". I'm gonna guess by the reactions they wanted something that wasn't so obviously expected, or so I imagine, which was perfectly fine, so the disappointment is fairly expected. And no, the cast of characters in musous have each had characterization. Hell, DW9 is going back to character based stories with it's 80-some characters

WO3 and the most recent entries in Samurai and Dynasty Warriors have had more than a decade to establish those kinds of rosters. For a fairer comparison, here's what their first entries had, which include the vast spinoffs:

DW: 28

SW: 15

One Piece: 13

Legends of Troy: 8

Fist of the North Star: 9

Hyrule Warriors: 13 (though if you take alternate weapons into account it's bumped to 19)

Berserk: 8

DQ: 13

Gundam: 20

That's it. Only DW has managed to come close to 30, because that's how the logic of these games works. You go for what's iconic or memorable and then expand in the sequels. Marth is in because Shadow Dragon was the very first FE. Awakening and Fates are in because they're the most recent (Shadows of Valentia notwithstanding) and best-selling. Whoop-dee-doo, Lyn and Ike aren't in it. Come down from the cross, use the wood to make a bridge AND GET OVER IT. Furthermore it keeps things from being spread too thin and keeping down instances of cloning.

As for the news itself, about what I expected, including original characters. A neat touch is that they got actual siblings to voice them (though not twins as Maaya is a few years older than her brother Yuma, who is the voice of Ephraim in FE Heroes). The only thing that gives me pause is the Weapon Triangle. If they try to do a faithful recreation it will be a detriment to gameplay as I've seen other action games try that kind of system and it's never worked. And will never work. The only way it can function is if it grants bonus damage, but ultimately doesn't detract if you're using, say, a spear against an axe user, otherwise it just screws up the floor. I also CALLED IT with the class system.

[shadowofchaos]

3 minutes ago, Captain Karnage said:

Not everybody's favorite is game in the series is Awakening or the other three. I know why yours is yours.

Please don't make this assumption about people.

Blazing Sword was my favorite before and Binding Blade was my first FE.

Seriously don't even imply that game that was the reason I'm getting married is blinding my judgment to people who love the titles getting omitted. Don't pull that card.

Koei literally does DLC up the ass for their rosters after release. Character roster for FE having this much is ambitious as hell.

Edited May 30, 2017 by shadowofchaos

[MPhoenix]

Great now everyone gets their waifus in HD

I can't say it surprises me... I'm only really disappointed that my illusion that IS would actually care for long term fans of the series and not only for the money is shattered again...

The thing that really annoys me though is the bull**** excuse of "too many sword users". Like Ephraim, Hector or Micaiah (maybe even count Lilina or even Soethe). But then make THE ORIGINAL CHARACTERS USE SWORDS TOO... I honestly had to laugh when I saw the picture of that third guy with the sword.

Oh well maybe you can customize our FE Heroes-Level of generic Lord protagonists to use another weapon at least. Now they really need to convince me with the gameplay.

[Soledai]

8 minutes ago, DarkDestr0yer61 said:

Soledai, I *think* he was referring to TMS....

If he was, I'll hold that L, lol

5 minutes ago, Folt said:

The fact that it is only the first Musou crossover with Fire Emblem. Musou crossovers (bar Orochi, mostly because they take characters from two series that already have, among other things, defined movesets) tend to have a small roster on their first game, so the fact that we're actually gonna get a larger-than-standard roster size already makes this pretty ambitious. Among other things, a larger roster + restrictions on the games they can pull from coupled with the "Bond conversations" means there should be a large number of sensible interactions amongst the cast.

I'm well aware of that. I'm saying that it is possible, not that it should be done or even that I wanted it.

Though, before I get misunderstood as one of the angry mobs, I'm not. I'm trying to figure out what he meant, was all.

[Kahvi]

Just looking at the og roster of Hyrule Warriors I really thought they might pull something completely out of the left field. Sigh, at least they might still choose some of the more interesting characters like, I don't know, Anankos or something. Ah, let's just hope they'll release more information soon!

[Interdimensional Observer]

On the swords issue, let me bring in Dynasty Warriors 8 Empires:

Cao Cao- General Sword

Cao Pi- Dualblade

Xiahou Dun: Podao

Sun Jian: Five-Ring Blade

Sun Cuan: Flame Blade

Zhou Tai: Curved Blade/Katana

Lu Xun: Swallow Swords

Liu Bei: Twin Swords

Guan Ping: Greatsword

Xingcai: Sword and Shield

Sima Shi: Lightning Sword

Sima Zhao: Striking Sword

Yuan Shao: Rapier

 

...Yeah, Koei Tecmo knows how to make sword diversity. Though to be fair this is from a game which has a ton of other characters who don't wield swords too. I think the "too many swords" issue is purely in terms of their ratio vs. other weapons, not statement of a lack of creativity when it comes to making sword movesets. 

 

As for the new protagonists designs. I don't like them very much. The blonde hair color is too gilded. It looks better for the female than the male, but not by that much. And I think the male is trying to capitalize on Owain/Odin's popularity (while at the same time making me think he's a Buddha or Bodhisattva). Though the male looks better as whole than the female (what is the point to those sticks on the kneecaps?).

[Thinks Their Own Way]

The blonde girl kinda looks like Vaike!Noire.

[Captain Karnage]

8 minutes ago, shadowofchaos said:

Please don't make this assumption about people.

Blazing Sword was my favorite before and Binding Blade was my first FE.

Koei literally does DLC up the ass for their rosters after release. Character roster for FE having this much is ambitious as hell.

sorry for the asumption, I was basing that on your profile saying Awakening and all of the Awakening stuff, you've posted on YT

[DaloDask]

1 minute ago, I'm a Spheal said:

The blonde girl kinda looks like Vaike!Noire.

Oh god I can't unsee it now holy shit I'm dying of laughter.

[Emerson]

I don't mind just SD/NM, Awakening and Fates if they do it right. I'm worried they're going to stick with just the Fates Royals and Marth and Chrom and Lucina and the Awakening Trio with very few other characters in-between, being a few popular characters like Tharja and Cordelia. Get some weird people in there, kinda like HW did with Agitha. Get Malice or Shura in the roster to spice things up a bit.

I do hope we get some other games' protagonists and characters down the line, but for now I'm content with what we have and I hope they don't just stick with popular characters entirely.

and either way ophelia's not getting in so boo game sucks my favorites not in it

[DaloDask]

1 minute ago, Emerson said:

and either way ophelia's not getting in so boo game sucks my favorites not in it

Class animations Koei pls

[Sentinel07]

Not surprised one bit that they seem to be using a structure similar to Fire Emblem Heroes. Brand new original land engulfed in war and previous FE characters are summoned in to help.