Your top 5 wanted units to get demoted in star rating.

[eclipse]

1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

Robin (M) also has Bonfire and can also be pulled at 3-star rarity. Surely that's more than enough 3-star sources of Bonfire to sacrifice a few copies of Tiki for Defiant Atk if you want it.

You'd get more bang for your buck (and a bit more of my indignation for the merging reason) if you have Raven be dropped from 5-4 to 4-3 instead of having Lucina be dropped from 5 to 5-4.

Whether or not you prefer them over her, Peri is still objectively the best player-phase melee cavalry in the game (even if it's only by 1 point over Abel and 2 points and a color over Cain), which is plenty to put on the table.

There's also the fact that making Peri more common by dropping her rarity dilutes the pool with her rather unimpressive default skill set.

I still hate multiquote.

1. You're assuming I can pull a given 3*. I've seen M!Robin twice, at most, since launch.  I've been slightly luckier with Tiki, hence why she's my go-to Bonfire SI.  Still, it's nowhere near my Iceberg/Glacies pool.

2. I also have uses for Spur Atk, and another 4* unit that can get Aether isn't a bad thing IMO.  While Raven might boost the rate at which I get Defiant Spd, my luck will dictate that the green orb contains Bartre.

3. Peri's base kit is Killer Lance/Glimmer.  This doesn't beat out default Braves - and for those Braves to be at full potential, she'd need to inherit a 5* anyway.

[TheTuckingFypo]

2 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

One character I would like to move UP to the 4/5-star pool is ... Eliwood. Both of Lyn and Hector are available as 5-star only units, so why is Eliwood the only one who gets kicked off to the side as a common unit? At the very least, he should've been 4/5-star.

YES. Please! I have 7 Eliwoods... He deserves at least 4/5* 

2 hours ago, unique said:

seconding leo, for the same reason. i wanted to get QR on tobin but I already spent 20k getting him a killing edge+ so I was kinda hesitating on dropping 22k on a subaki just to get him QR3. we really do need someone who has it at 4 stars.

I disagree. Because Leo. I'd rather see Intelligent Systems switch Subaki's skills so QR3 is 4* on him. That way, he'd be the perfect fodder.

As for demoting units... I think...

1. Lachesis. Why is she 4-5*?
2. Hinoka. Because there's no way in hell Takumi would be demoted.
3. Jakob. Why can he be pulled at 5*? And F!Corrin is only 3-4*? Huh?
4. Rebecca. 3-4*. Stat spread is meh. Only shines with inheritance.
5. Ninian to 4-5*, only because Dancers are hard to obtain. Yes, we have Olivia at 3-4* only, but for variety's sake. That, and asking to demote Azura and it actually happening is rather unrealistic. Ninian could be a compromise. 

On the other hand, units that should be 4-5* or just 5*

1. M!Robin. 4-5*. I just remember the upset that people had when he was demoted to 3-4* only. If anything, this is probably why IS hasn't demoted a unit like that since XD
2. Nino. 4-5*. She's good.
3. Eliwood. Refer to what @Sunwoo said.
4. Hana, to 4-5*, and switch her skill unlock rarity so L&D3 is unlockable @ 4*. 
5. Kellam. Just put him in the game goddammit I wanna see my b-day buddy yo.

[Ice Dragon]

31 minutes ago, Rezzy said:

Luke: Why is this guy 5* exclusive, when Roderick got the drop to 4*?  I'd drop hi to 3* if I could.  We've got enough Swords clogging to 5* ranks.

Faye: Why are you 5* exclusive?  Get thee to 3-4*.

Because Panic Ploy and Firesweep Bow are powerful.

 

14 minutes ago, Roflolxp54 said:

3. Hinoka: she's the least popular of Fates' royal siblings - why is she a 5*-only drop?

Probably because of Hone Fliers.

 

14 minutes ago, Roflolxp54 said:

4. Katarina: Raudrowl isn't exactly impressive and Mae and Boey are both 4-5* drops.

But Swift Sparrow is.

 

12 minutes ago, eclipse said:

I still hate multiquote.

You cannot escape.

 

3 minutes ago, eclipse said:

1. You're assuming I can pull a given 3*. I've seen M!Robin twice, at most, since launch.  I've been slightly luckier with Tiki, hence why she's my go-to Bonfire SI.  Still, it's nowhere near my Iceberg/Glacies pool.

2. I also have uses for Spur Atk, and another 4* unit that can get Aether isn't a bad thing IMO.  While Raven might boost the rate at which I get Defiant Spd, my luck will dictate that the green orb contains Bartre.

Yes, I am because you can. Random fluctuation due to small sample sizes causes perceived differences in the probability of particular results where one simply doesn't exist.

 

6 minutes ago, eclipse said:

3. Peri's base kit is Killer Lance/Glimmer.  This doesn't beat out default Braves - and for those Braves to be at full potential, she'd need to inherit a 5* anyway.

Peri is better in the long run because the only difference in Skill Inheritance requirements between an Abel and a Peri is a single Brave Lance+. Unless you're going the Firesweep route in which case both of them would need to toss their entire kits anyways.

[DehNutCase]

2 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Whether or not you prefer them over her, Peri is still objectively the best player-phase melee cavalry in the game (even if it's only by 1 point over Abel and 2 points and a color over Cain), which is plenty to put on the table.

There's also the fact that making Peri more common by dropping her rarity dilutes the pool with her rather unimpressive default skill set.

Eh... +Atk L&D, Atk 1 seal, Peri with Escutcheon has similar numbers with =Camus with L&D, Pulse seal, and Moonbow.

Peri:

114 W/7 L before buffs

132 W/5 L with +6/+6

132 W/4L with +6 all stats

Luna Peri:

116 W/ 19 L before buffs

130 W/ 15 L after +6/+6

132 W/ 11 L after +6 all stats

 

Camus:

110 W/ 7 L before buffs

133 W/ 5 L with +6/+6

134 W/ 4 L with +6 all stats

With 2 charge on Moonbow, Camus drops to:

104 W/ 8 L before buffs

126 W/ 5 L after +6/+6

127 W/ 3 L with +6 all stats (Legion kills him if he has Moonbow up, cause Reprisal, lul)

 

Camus with Luna, Atk 1 seal is:

106 W/ 8 L before buffs

131 W/ 5 L after +6/+6

132 W/ 3 L after +6 all stats

Enemy phase is heavily Camus favored for obvious reasons. (Dude somehow gets 50 wins and 5 losses with +6 all stats on defense, even +6/+6 is still same # of wins, just 9 more losses.)

Peri is 43 W/21 L at +6 all stats, and 41 W / 28 L at +6/+6, though enemy phase is obviously less relevant.

 

It's the problem with res heavy glass cannons, if you're forced to go escutcheon to avoid the OHKO, people can catch-up with certain offensive specials.

 

It gets even worse if you compare with +Atk/-Res Abel:

L&D, Atk 1, Luna Abel:

116 W/ 13 L before buffs

132 W/ 11 L after +6/+6

138 W/ 4 L after +6 all stats

[Rafiel's Aria]

I think I'll base my list more on who I think deserves to be at a 3-4 or 4-5 level instead of 5 star exclusive instead of who I want more.... lol (Though some of that "who I want more" reasoning will probably come into play.

1. Mist: I can understand why Genny is a 5 star exclusive (to an extent). Wrathful Staff is a great skill, but it sucks that it's so difficult to get. But Mist? There's nothing remarkable about her as a healer. She gets a nice C-Passive, but does that make her 5 star worthy? Not really. Soren probably would have made better sense. There's not anything super remarkable about him either, but I don't believe we have any 5 star exclusive green mages.

2. Hinoka: For this, I'd probably raise Cordelia to a 5 star exclusive, so we have some balance. Flier buffs are so difficult to get. It'd be nice for Minerva to be 4 stars, but I think she deserves to be up there at 5 stars representing the green fliers. Plus legendary weapon.

3. Jakob: ...why is he available at 5 stars? He'd be perfectly fine as a 3-4 star character. He gets Silver Dagger+ which is cool, but I'm not sure he has to be a 4-5 star pull.

4. Sakura: i guess there's a trend here. XD I don't have anything against healers (in fact I love them), but it makes no sense to have so many random ones at the top. Sakura is cute, but there's nothing super remarkable about her. She'd be just fine as a 3-4 star pull. Lachesis kind of follows this line of reasoning as well, but I don't want her to take up my next spot. XD

5. Katarina: I think she deserves her rating (because man I love her), but she's got too many good skills that I'd love to be able to spread around. Having her at 4 stars would be really nice...

[Sunwoo]

1 minute ago, Rafiel's Aria said:

I think I'll base my list more on who I think deserves to be at a 3-4 or 4-5 level instead of 5 star exclusive instead of who I want more.... lol (Though some of that "who I want more" reasoning will probably come into play.

1. Mist: I can understand why Genny is a 5 star exclusive (to an extent). Wrathful Staff is a great skill, but it sucks that it's so difficult to get. But Mist? There's nothing remarkable about her as a healer. She gets a nice C-Passive, but does that make her 5 star worthy? Not really. Soren probably would have made better sense. There's not anything super remarkable about him either, but I don't believe we have any 5 star exclusive green mages.

Julia XD

Honestly, there just aren't very many green units in general compared to the other colors.

[Rafiel's Aria]

3 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

Julia XD

Honestly, there just aren't very many green units in general compared to the other colors.

Oh yeah. I forgot about her. XD And I pulled her too. Duh. Senior moment I guess. But yeah. It'd be nice to go for a few focuses without any new red characters. Let the other colors catch up for a bit.

[Sunwoo]

6 minutes ago, Rafiel's Aria said:

Oh yeah. I forgot about her. XD And I pulled her too. Duh. Senior moment I guess. But yeah. It'd be nice to go for a few focuses without any new red characters. Let the other colors catch up for a bit.

I got really bored the other day and I reorganized my Heroes spreadsheet in Excel. One of the things I'm keeping track of is the number of characters who are able to be summoned, excluding the seasonal units. If my calculations aren't wrong, there are currently: 40 permanently summonable red units, 29 blue and colorless units, and 21 green units.

25 of 40 red units are 4/5-star exclusive, while 17/29 blue units, 16/29 colorless units, and 12/21 green units are 4/5-star exclusive.

My conclusion? We REALLY don't need anymore reds anytime soon.

Edited July 11, 2017 by Sunwoo

[Rafiel's Aria]

2 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

I got really bored the other day and I reorganized my Heroes spreadsheet in Excel. One of the things I'm keeping track of is the number of characters who are able to be summoned, excluding the seasonal units. If my calculations aren't wrong, there are currently: 40 permanently summonable red units, 29 blue and colorless units, and 21 green units.

25 of 40 red units are 4/5-star exclusive, while 17/29 blue units, 16/29 colorless units, and 12/21 green units are 4/5-star exclusive.

My conclusion? We REALLY don't need anymore reds anytime soon.

Some Dude at IS: You know, we should release a mounted archer in the next focus. I think the players would really enjoy that.

Some Other Dude at IS: OMG. ALL RED FOCUS. LET'S DO IT. THAT'S WHAT THE PEOPLE REALLY WANT!

*Idiotic cheering*

I'm pretty sure that's how these meetings go down.

Man we really need more green. I think we need more infantry, non-magic blue and green personally. I'd love to have Ephraim at 4-5 stars simply because we're pretty limited in our lancers. Sharena and Donnel are both free, but I like Lukas and Ephraim are our other options.

[Zangetsu]

3 hours ago, a bear said:

I dunno, any of em. All of em.

QFT

 

Anyways, I can only think of one unit & I just want Lyn to have a higher chance so I can finally get her.

[Sire]

Not biased on Skill Inheritance at all...

While I would love some characters to be demoted for the sake of Skill Inheritance, I can see the appeal of leaving some characters at 5* status. One reason is that it is easier to merge units who come innately as a 5* because feathers do not need to be used, only orbs. I have a spare Cain, Chrom, and Kagero who are waiting to be merged.

What I would like to see is a banner where everyone is a 3-star character and there is an equal chance of pulling any character. Probably won't ever happen or actually help the chances of getting a 5* exclusive because I fail at math, but it may be a fun concept.

* * * * *

1. Jaffar - Life and Death inheritable at 4* please. I know he is supposed to be the "Angel of Death," has a special dagger, and is the only 5* exclusive dagger user (sans Summer!Frederick), but having Life and Death easier to inherit would be amazing. I could have suggested Minerva, but she is likely to have her Ward Fliers inheritable at 4*, like all the other skills.

2. Leo - Quick Riposte at 4* status. Klein and Subaki are already lower star characters, leaving only Leo to pass in Quick Riposte.

3. Hinoka - Hone Fliers at 4* status. I also just noticed that Hinoka is a 5-star exclusive character while Camilla can be pulled as a 4-star unit...

4. Ninian - Fortify Dragons at 4* status. Also provides room for a different dancer at the lower star levels besides Olivia.

5. Genny - Wrathful Staff at 4* status, because combat healers can be useful.
- - - - -
HM. Takumi - While Close Counter can become a thing at 4* (looks at the effectiveness shields or the number of "distant counter weapons" for examples), I think giving him Threaten SPD is a better choice even if it is already inheritable by Selena and Navarre. Takumi makes HM because Leo got demoted and it makes sense to also demote the other brother, but there is the argument Takumi has more story relevance and should remain a 5* unit (see Fates:Conquest).

HM. Karel - The Sword Demon is outclassed among his other 5-star sword users. Demoting him gives the basic Wo Dao as an inheritable option, as well as either Defiant Attack or Desperation.

HM. Faye - While nobility vs the peasantry may be a theme in Valentia, plot importance versus extras is important in Heroes. Faye is definitely not plot important and can even be left at Ram Village, so she does not deserve 5-star status. She can give her basic Firesweep Bow and Bow EXP to others.

HM. Elise - Sakura is a 4-5* character. Might as well make Elise one too. Besides, it'll help me get an Elise! Merging one will take effort though...

HM. Katarina - Look, I know "Kris and company" hijacked New Mystery or something, but why is Katrina 5-star exclusives when the Hero-King himself (Marth) is pullable at 4-5* status? She has new skills to pass on to other characters which is useful (probably Atk Ploy since Swift Sparrow will remain "rare").

[Lushen]

Jaffar

He's got no great SI assuming L&D would be 5* exclusive (threaten speed is good, but it's not like that's already rare).  He isn't that great.  His featured banner had like 4 nocolor units so he was impossible to get.

 

Other than that, no one.  There's a ton of characters I really want, but I don't want them to be available as a 4* because that will make them feel less valuable when I finally get them.

edit:  I guess as @Rezzy mentioned, Luke should be 4*.  It doesn't really matter how good his skill is if they just make the last tier 5* exlusive.  I don't think Panic Ploy is DC/CC (which they should keep 5* only rare) good, it's very hard to set up without endangering your units.

Edited July 11, 2017 by Lushen

[Lau]

1. Elise - I've been dying to get her for ages.

2. Leo - See Elise.

3. Lyn - See the previous two.

4. Lucina - See the previous two. Besides, Marth amd Chrom are in the 4-5* pool, so why not her?

5. A ton of red units.

 

I also think that we should completely remove the free units from the summoning process, you can get them like, once a week, so it's just pointless.

[Ice Dragon]

57 minutes ago, Lushen said:

It doesn't really matter how good his skill is if they just make the last tier 5* exlusive.  I don't think Panic Ploy is DC/CC (which they should keep 5* only rare) good, it's very hard to set up without endangering your units.

20,000 feathers and a 4-star red pull (3 or 4 weeks of arena rewards, 1 in 75 from Ylissian Summer when pulling only red or 4-6 weeks of free orbs at 175 orbs per month) is much easier to get than a 5-star exclusive red pull (1 in 689 from Ylissian Summer when pulling only red or 16-20 months of free orbs at 175 orbs per month).

Close Counter is rather meh since most ranged attackers don't have much to gain from being able to counterattack at melee range. Panic Ploy extends all the way across the map, so it isn't difficult to set up, especially on maps with choke points or waffle maps.

 

2 minutes ago, Lautsuu said:

I also think that we should completely remove the free units from the summoning process, you can get them like, once a week, so it's just pointless.

You can get them once. Completing the map again the next time the rotation comes around doesn't get you anything.

[Lushen]

14 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

20,000 feathers and a 4-star red pull (3 or 4 weeks of arena rewards, 1 in 75 from Ylissian Summer when pulling only red or 4-6 weeks of free orbs at 175 orbs per month) is much easier to get than a 5-star exclusive red pull (1 in 689 from Ylissian Summer when pulling only red or 16-20 months of free orbs at 175 orbs per month).

Close Counter is rather meh since most ranged attackers don't have much to gain from being able to counterattack at melee range. Panic Ploy extends all the way across the map, so it isn't difficult to set up, especially on maps with choke points or waffle maps.

You're disregarding focus in the 4*/5*, which is very relevant.  5*s are considerably less rare than that because they often appear as focus and we save up our orbs for them.  Hence, why I got summer fredrick and summer gaius, but still don't have Kagero (which I need).  If they appear as focus every 3ish months (so far, almost everything has), then the 16-20mo would really only be 3-4mo as long as you can get them in the focus.  Still, your point made me very sad when I figured out how many months I have to wait to get Ephraim if he doesn't appear in a focus soon...

Hm, I personally have always had trouble getting it to activate because most of my units are together and if I'm trying to get it to trigger when my units are in range, the unit using a ploy would be in range of a threaten anyway.  I never used panic ploy though.  

I wan't DC/CC to be rare not because they're the best skills in the game (though DC is up there), but because I don't want to see everyone running DC/CC on random units in arena.  It should be difficult to get, and even more difficult to justify sacrificing a Hector/Takumi.  Even though I got 2 Hectors, I kind of thought the Hero Fest was a bad idea because of this.

Edited July 11, 2017 by Lushen

[Xenomata]

I'd actually like to see them make 4* variants of the seasonal units and add them to the banners they are a part of, separate from the Bonus Unit chance, just so we have better odds of getting these special units.

Anyways, my listings.

1. Olwen. Objectively, she is worse than Reinhardt. Maybe not as a Blue unit (she seems like a good fit for Blarblade on a Cav Team), but certainly as a Dire Thunder user, and her skills aren't even anything to lust over in the first place.
2. Karel. I've never seen a Wo Dao in my life, and I never realized the reason why might be because the only one who has it (before Athena I mean) was locked to 5*.
3. Rebecca. She does NOT deserve to be up there. At ALL. She is 3* material, a unit you pull early on and use because it's all you got.
4. Luke. I hate his face, and he is the only one of the 4 Archanea Cavaliers to be exclusive to 5*. And I thought Cain and Abel being pullable as 5* was bad enough already.
5. Nowi. She might be my MVP unit, but... I'd like to pull her a little more than I actually do.

 

34 minutes ago, Lautsuu said:

I also think that we should completely remove the free units from the summoning process, you can get them like, once a week, so it's just pointless.

They're only available once per difficulty, and they don't have natures last I checked, so a more desireable unit like Cecilia will only be average.

Edited July 11, 2017 by Xenomata

[Ae†her]

I only want this for 5 star only units that deserve to get demoted. Really just units who you have to land a 5 star unit for, and ruin your percentages just for their certain skill.

1. Katarina - She's the only unit with access to Swift Sparrow 2 that's not a limited-timer.

2. Athena - Sturdy Blow 2 is on her, and we want it.

2.5. Minerva - 4 star version that gives L&D 3 because literally all other 4 star available units that have L&D only have the 2 version. 

3. Leo - Although Leo shouldn't get this treatment because Takumi wouldn't, we still need QR 3, and hopefully his 4 star version would have QR 3 at 4*s. Leo's not even that good of a unit without certain IVs so might as well make him available at 4 stars.

4. Luke - He has Panic Ploy, which is the best and most effective way to counter insanely buffed Horse/Flier/Armor Emblem units. (I have one though already whose +HP - Spd so whatevs! xP)

5. Alm - Alm is not even that special of a lord, yet he doesn't get brought down to 4* tier, even though other better lords are, namely Chrom, Roy, and Eliwood. He's the only one with Windsweep too, so this would be good for the game.

I wouldn't make Takumi, Hector, Linde, Lucina, Celica into 4 stars because they deserve they're special upper echelon status, due to their stats and abilities, and the fact that if I were in Nintendo's shoes, I would know that would be such a bad decision.

Edited July 12, 2017 by Logos

[Zapp Branniglenn]

1 hour ago, Xenomata said:

I'd actually like to see them make 4* variants of the seasonal units and add them to the banners they are a part of, separate from the Bonus Unit chance, just so we have better odds of getting these special units.

 

Ooh yeah, I thought of this too for when these seasonal banners are re-ran next year. From what I've been hearing from people that play other gacha games, the themes are repeated with a new set of characters while also including the old set. Having the old set appear as 4-5 star during that banner would be great. For the sake of people that have gone a year without those old characters.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

8 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

One character I would like to move UP to the 4/5-star pool is ... Eliwood. Both of Lyn and Hector are available as 5-star only units, so why is Eliwood the only one who gets kicked off to the side as a common unit? At the very least, he should've been 4/5-star.

The reason for this is literally Horse Emblem

[Bartozio]

Most units are already mentioned, but hey:

1. Lyn (mostly because I really want her, but I also feel she isn't that special as a unit, which means her popularity would be the only reason she's 5* anyway).
2. Ephraim (I want the guy. He's good enough to deserve being a 5*, but if Erika can drop to 4-5 star rarity, why not him?)
3. Hinoka (as mentioned before, Hone flier should be made more available and there's no reason why she needs to be more rare then Camilla).
4. Azura (I want a dancer other the Olivia. There's nothing really wrong with Olivia, but variation is nice and I like Olivia the least of the three. I listed Azura instead on Ninian only because Ninian has a bit more reason to stay at 5* in my opinion, being both a dancer and a dragon).
5. Tharja (to make Raurblade more easily accesible.)

Any drops that would make LaD 3 or QR 3 available at 4* would also be great of course. I also second Eliwood moving up to 4-5 star rarity. Him being the only main character (not counting M!Robin) available at 3* is pretty sad.

[TheNiddo]

Peri - No reason for her to be that high up the chain.
Jaffar - He may have a "legendary" weapon, but 4-5 star would be perfectly reasonable for him
Rebecca - Is nooooot worthy of that high of a ranking
Jakob - Plz stop trolling people by being 5* k thnx
Catria - Join your sisters in the 3-4* range.

[Interdimensional Observer]

Random thought- why do things only go as low as 3-Star rarity? Why no 1 or 2?

[Ice Dragon]

2 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Random thought- why do things only go as low as 3-Star rarity? Why no 1 or 2?

Do you want to pull 1-star or 2-star units out of the summoning rock?

[XRay]

14 hours ago, Lushen said:

I wan't DC/CC to be rare not because they're the best skills in the game (though DC is up there), but because I don't want to see everyone running DC/CC on random units in arena.  It should be difficult to get, and even more difficult to justify sacrificing a Hector/Takumi.  Even though I got 2 Hectors, I kind of thought the Hero Fest was a bad idea because of this.

I do not see anything wrong with more Counters in the Arena. It makes B!Cordelia's job easier if Ravens run CC instead of TA. Enemies with DC are also much easier to deal with than enemies with Fury for Reinhardt.

If anything, a Counter meta would be a boon to players with a good team composition already.

I do not see why Hector and Takumi should be difficult to sacrifice. There is nothing special about them other than their A passive.

@Interdimensional Observer@Ice Dragon

Although I do not want to pull 1* or 2* units, I do not mind them giving that out as consolation prizes if we do not pull any 5* units. It would be nice to get 1* versions of characters locked at 5*.

[Lushen]

6 minutes ago, XRay said:

I do not see anything wrong with more Counters in the Arena. It makes B!Cordelia's job easier if Ravens run CC instead of TA. Enemies with DC are also much easier to deal with than enemies with Fury for Reinhardt.

If anything, a Counter meta would be a boon to players with a good team composition already.

I do not see why Hector and Takumi should be difficult to sacrifice. There is nothing special about them other than their A passive.

 

True, but it makes it harder to use unis like Mages and Dagger users, which make up a lot more units than brave bow Cordelia and Summer Gaius.  I just think it deserves to be more rare than most skills.  

Hector and Takumi are both fan favorites.  And they're only available as 5*s which makes it hard to sacrifice them when you get one.  It's the same reason I have 10 5*s I never really use, I'm not going to SI them because many of them are hard to get and you never know when you'll need them.  Hector and Takumi can both be very good if your main team can't do a GHB, so it's nice to have them in reserve.   This is why they're difficult to sacrifice, not because they're the absolute best units in the game statwise ( though both are up there).

Edited July 11, 2017 by Lushen