Etrian Odyssey 3 Mafia - Game Over

[Shinori]

I just noticed you said "Content coming in a second."

So if there is content involving the stuff I asked about then my previous post doesn't matter as much but still stands to an extent.

[Percivalé]

@athena_57 as for my response to you. you cannot assume someone actively posting reads at surface level means they are town. everyone is going to post reads. everyone is expected to post their reads. scum have to pretend to me town and thus will do things town are expected to you. it's a lot more complicated than "eury posted reads and they look good so she must be town, and via is attacking her so he must be scum trying to discredit her!"

and as for attempting to dodge your question. when I said "you're new so you wouldn't understand" I was referring to how my unconventional playstyle tends to throw new people off (and I don't mean to be like "lol I am so unique look at how unique and different and thus advanced my playstyle is") because yeah I do tend to flail all over the place, act on my instincts, and have trouble explaining myself at times as a result. again, I ask you to look at the context of things. when I told people not to automatically assume you're town or scum based on you being new, it's because we've in the past excused people new (and not even people who are new to mafia as a whole, but like even just new to SF and this mafia environment) and it's turned up backfiring on us. but you are still new to playing mafia here, and that was what I was referring to when I made that (admittedly kinda snide) remark last night.

[Percivalé]

shinori what the fuck when did i say you could be scum with eury??????????????????????????????????????

[Percivalé]

shinori i never said i thought you were scum and hold on i'm just trying to get the stuff from last night out of the way. i legitimately have no idea what you are talking about

[Shinori]

10 minutes ago, Vi-astra said:

shinori stubbornly digging for reasons to find me scummy reminds me of last game when he stubbornly dug for reasons to defend eury. all in all I'm not really bothered except that we need to put a little less emphasis on "they are playing differently this game, so they must be scum." there's meta, and then there's expecting peoples' playstyles to be completely static every game you play with them. I used to be a LOT more aggressive as town in my earlier games here before I took my mafia vacation. I clung onto my eury scumread as confirmation bias admittedly which is why I got so into it. but please don't take me acting more aggressive than my previous few games as a sign that I might be scum. I've been rusty and I'm getting used to the game again, and my playstyle is evolving. everyone's playstyles are going to evolve and people are going to want to improve the way they play the game, try new things. I know I am guilty for using metareads often but again, there is meta, and there is expecting people to play the exact same way every game and considering it a scumtell when they don't. and I know I haven't rolled scum in a while, and haven't rolled scum AT ALL since the SF mafia revival, so a sudden change in my playstyle such as me acting more aggressive and a little more rashly than usual will probably draw eyes, yeah, I realize. but you can't just take that and auto-assume that means I'm not town.

I misread this part: I apologize.

But the bolded part read to me that you felt in that manner and I think I just misread the wording on it.

Apologies.

[Percivalé]

oh yeah no--I wasn't saying I thought you were scummy for doing that, I should have been more clear. right now I'm typing up my opinion on clarinets and the wagon on her.

[SB.]

I fell asleep while catching up and then forgot to look again.

Gimme a bit.

[Percivalé]

clarinets' RVS stuff didn't ping me so I didn't pay any attention to her. I didn't see where people said she was using a joke to vote weapons because it was still RVS and the joke claim didn't bother me either because it appeared to me that she was obviously joking (but marth's response to her role reads me as town now despite me thinking it was scum at first, idk why I reacted the other way, it was still ED1 so I was looking for something to propel me). clarinets worrying that SB was using his roleplay as an excuse to me vague doesn't bother me either, because I was legit a little concerned about it myself as you saw when I questioned him about his role and he responded to me vaguely and he threw me off. it's a legit concern and I can see people maybe seeing clarinets as using it as an easy vote but I'm not sure if I think the same.

I know at least prims was doing this but the wagon seemed more to serve as pressure for clarinets to post a little more actively at first and that's why I didn't really pay attention to it, and I have a bad habit of not reading wagons or cases or people that don't interest me hardcore until the last minute, and last night I took that and flaunted it and used it as an excuse and I realize that is scummy and at the very least it is antitown and I apologize.

still reading, just trying to get everything out before deadline.

[Percivalé]

On 3/16/2018 at 9:06 PM, Clarinets said:

Nothing else seemed worth talking about.

I will admit yeah, this is scummy, and I didn't realize that by page 6 the whole thing between me and eury and shinori started so there's nothing else actually to read regarding this. I can see why people think Clarinets is scum active-lurking, but half of me is kinda worried about this being an easy lynch. I didn't see Clarinets's play today as being disruptive but more like, again, classic active-lurking or coasting than anything else and I don't think anyone is voting her for inactivity but for that, which again is valid and I'll consolidate on clarinets today.

[Percivalé]

AT any rate, as I said earlier I'm having issues this game with most of my reads being either null or town which is why I haven't been so gung-ho about pursuing anything else but my Eury read when it came to it.

[Sunwoo]

Okay, here are some thoughts in no particular order:

I'm feeling okay on Shinori now, and I feel like I understand where his vote is coming from better.

The Via vs. Shinori argument doesn't look like scum vs. scum, I highly doubt it was staged. Of the two, I feel like Via comes off looking worse, especially because of the huge font bolded post accusing Shinori of calling them Clarinets' scum buddy. There was nothing in Shinori's posts that implied that, so it feels like an overreaction coming out of nowhere. I don't really have a problem with them saying they don't have a read on Clarinets because they hadn't read the rest of the game, but it is odd that they didn't just say that when Shinori asked them about thoughts on Clarinets the first time, so that doesn't sit too well with me.

Weapons and Omega need to step it up. I'd like to hear if Weapons's scum reads have changed, I think the last reads he had were the trio who were scum from the last game. Has that changed at all? Omega, I can't recall anything he's really talked about besides Marth vs. me and maybe Clarinets.

Something bothers me about SB, I think it's because I feel like he's less engaged than he usually is. And his Eury vote is worded in a rather wishy-washy way. Not really liking this slot.

Eury also feels less engaged than I recall her being. I don't expect her to make wallposts with this obnoxious software and when she's busy IRL, but she just seems detached and not really getting into the game. In the first big post that she made, she was asking a lot of questions based on stuff that was going on, but it also feels like she didn't really do anything with them on follow-up posts? While she has stated some suspicions of people over her posts (like Clarinets is white noise, Marth's vote feels slightly OMGUS-y), I feel like there hasn't been really a lot of progression. It is kind of the same two people she suspected earlier, and Bartozio whose case on her she found to be questionable. It looks like trying to contribute but not really contributing. Between Eury and Via arguing, I don't feel like both of them are scum, but I feel worse about Eury.

Marth ... he's not my biggest scum read anymore. I don't feel completely great about him, but at the very least I have no issues with his later content and he sounds all right in the later posts, too.

##Unvote

##Vote: Eury

As for Clarinets, yeah, he hasn't done anything aside from that one "contributory" content post. It's still scummy, and I would consolidate here. My vote is on Eury, though, since she actually had some interactions and done stuff I felt was scummy, while Clarinets just non-existed.

Posting this now because fuck I've been cut too many times.

[Percivalé]

5 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

The Via vs. Shinori argument doesn't look like scum vs. scum, I highly doubt it was staged. Of the two, I feel like Via comes off looking worse, especially because of the huge font bolded post accusing Shinori of calling them Clarinets' scum buddy. There was nothing in Shinori's posts that implied that, so it feels like an overreaction coming out of nowhere. I don't really have a problem with them saying they don't have a read on Clarinets because they hadn't read the rest of the game, but it is odd that they didn't just say that when Shinori asked them about thoughts on Clarinets the first time, so that doesn't sit too well with me.

I realize this was kinda dumb of me but I was INCREDIBLY heated and it felt like because I hadn't read the Clarinets case that my Eury case was automatically invalid because of it, and I couldn't see why else Shinori would imply this other than I was buddies with Clarinets or something, because nothing else made sense to me at the time, and I was dumb tired

[Percivalé]

i also agree sb's eury vote was bad but i was going to sleep/having an anxiety attack when it happened

but i still want to lynch eury anyway

[Sunwoo]

2 minutes ago, Vi-astra said:

I realize this was kinda dumb of me but I was INCREDIBLY heated and it felt like because I hadn't read the Clarinets case that my Eury case was automatically invalid because of it, and I couldn't see why else Shinori would imply this other than I was buddies with Clarinets or something, because nothing else made sense to me at the time, and I was dumb tired

I mean, I can understand that. But it still doesn't look great.

[Bartozio]

Of course people start talking when I'm going to sleep....

But anyway, I'm going to sleep now, please let me wake up next to a scum corpse? Since Clarinets has 6 votes already, I feel it's more useful to keep my vote on Eury just in case something big happens and people want to switch to her. Good night guys.

[Sunwoo]

How much time do we have left before deadline? And what are the votals?

[Shinori]

I think deadline is in about 2 hours 20 minutes.  I'll see if I can get some votals made up by yours truly.

[Shinori]

Clarinets (6): Weapons, Athena, Prims, Eury, Omega, Bluedoom, 
Eury (4): Bartozio, Vi-astra, Kokichi, Sunwoo
Not Voting (2): Clarinets, Shinori

 

These should be accurate.  Phase end is in 2 hours 15 minutes(I checked).

[Athena_57]

56 minutes ago, Vi-astra said:

@athena_57 as for my response to you. you cannot assume someone actively posting reads at surface level means they are town. everyone is going to post reads. everyone is expected to post their reads. scum have to pretend to me town and thus will do things town are expected to you. it's a lot more complicated than "eury posted reads and they look good so she must be town, and via is attacking her so he must be scum trying to discredit her!"

and as for attempting to dodge your question. when I said "you're new so you wouldn't understand" I was referring to how my unconventional playstyle tends to throw new people off (and I don't mean to be like "lol I am so unique look at how unique and different and thus advanced my playstyle is") because yeah I do tend to flail all over the place, act on my instincts, and have trouble explaining myself at times as a result. again, I ask you to look at the context of things. when I told people not to automatically assume you're town or scum based on you being new, it's because we've in the past excused people new (and not even people who are new to mafia as a whole, but like even just new to SF and this mafia environment) and it's turned up backfiring on us. but you are still new to playing mafia here, and that was what I was referring to when I made that (admittedly kinda snide) remark last night.

I did not assume they were town because they were posting, because first of all I didn't say they were town, I said they were null, I said so again later, please don't misconstrue my words. Secondly, I didn't like their post because it existed, I liked it because it felt productive/honest.

In the same way, I don't think Clarinets is scum for inactivity, I feel they're scum because the content they posted was vague and "eager to please". Again, either read my posts or don't attack my opinions.

I didn't say you were scum either, I never did. I was bothered by your seeming disinterest in something I felt was important. I don't use someone's activity as an argument to say whether they're town or not, but if someone doesn't comment I can't make associative reads. In other words, not posting/commenting isn't necessarily scummy, but it is anti-town and thus something I discourage.

If by unique you mean "unproductive", then fine. Still, you can just say you prefer to not post reads  or not to read posts instead of saying "You wouldn't understand".

I still don't think you're scummy, but I'm annoyed you don't take me/my questions seriously and also don't like you misrepresenting my opinions on people or my reasons for having them.

[Athena_57]

Also, since Clarinets hasn't appeared yet, I'll reread Eury and the cases on her, I'll post on it after I read it.

[SB.]

I can’t really say much to Omega because obviously I won’t agree that I wasn’t making town pushes. This game is difficult because it started slow and I didn’t buy into the Clarinets wagon and not much else really happened, so I just went to explore reads that I‘ve been iffy on like Via and Omega. I thought Clarinets’ unvote was weird but idk, judging people who suspect you is hard and I felt like the wagon was just trying to be a wagon for the sake of it and with not much against it I figured like there would be more resistance if it was a maflynch. I thought there was more pressure there than there actually was though (we’d been missing votals for a while) and I’d be fine with lynching the slot but I’d feel like shit if it was a town lynch because I was getting P5!Baldrick vibes from the wagon.

But yeah I still think Omega is scum. I feel like he makes a huge jump in assuming that the Marth/Boron thing was town/scum and it took him a long time to say anything specifically that Marth had did and he was very cautious to commit to anything for the whole day phase. It didn’t feel like he was really trying to get a read for his nulls or anything either so it just looks like content that’s there to fill space.

I think my Eury vote had shitty wording because it was rushed but basically I don’t feel like her suspicions are very strong (I can’t tell for the life of me why she’s pushing Bart she just waffles on him) which is weird because she’s asking a lot of questions but I don’t think she’s drawing much from them. I don’t think that not wallposting is a point against her (personally I love it when I see a Eury post that fits on my monitor) but when their reads aren’t solid it makes me worry. 

Sorry I’m kinda mentally checked out rn because of rl things. I’ll probably just lurk it out until phase end unless things come up because ahhjhhhhh

[Sunwoo]

Who's even going to be around during phase end? I can't promise I'll be around.

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

So if I'm understanding SB, you have Eury as top scum, followed by me, and that is your scumlist atm?

You are also asserting that I have not committed to anything despite being the only person to posit Marth/Boron being SvT? What do you expect Town!Omega to have committed to in the context of this game?

[SB.]

jYour Marth vote wasn’t trying to get him lynched, that’s what I mean by not commiting. Your transition between Boron/Marth feels like it was missing steps that I feel like town Omega would describe better, it feels like you picked a read that’s hard to object to because it’s reasoning isn’t really laid out that clearly.

You had more convicion in a post earlier this rl day but then I read the actual content and couldn’t buy into it. It feels like you made your conclusions and worked backwards, especially when it came to your Marth read.

Also I think you’re scummier but there’s no wagon to be had there now and there hasn’t been since Prims unvoted.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

I am also wary that Clarinets is an easy lynch, but sometimes, the easy lunch is the right lynch. I think Clarinets’s disappearance up to phase end is a scum tell, and I’d expect town to defend themselves or get upset or something. Obviously they could be demotivated town, but given that there’s little info to work with, I am staying here until phase end.

Via is obviously town, how are people still not recognizing this.

@Shinori, what was scummy about that one post of mine that you pointed out? I don’t really see it tbh imo

Something about Boron’s last big post pinged me and I went back to read her. Most of her reads I feel like are taking things that are null and shading them as scummy. Her read on Shinori is demonstrative; she calls him out for switching votes without explaining why and stuck with it when I felt it was evident that Shinori was leaving a leaving RVS read for a more promising one. In the time I’ve made this post, I’ve forgotten what her newest post was about lol, so I cant give more concrete examples atm. I’m not super reading her as scum, but compared to everyone else, she is on my radar.

on Eury: didn’t read lol