We Need Serenes Forest Mafia Mafia 5 After All! - GAME OVER

[Snike]

Shinori that's relevant considering context.

[Shinori]

2 minutes ago, Snike said:

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5

5 POSTS

SF PLEASE

I can see your reasoning; like I said I am not going to push today, since it's not like there's a lack of viable targets.

The thing about marthclaim is no one's apparently bothered to test it; not even flakieson. It's a ??? to us afaik.

I want to talk about network targets again; I have already said my bit about athena's choice of target (Bibbon was also a townread option before you p10) but fable for the other? I thought it was bibbon who networked him before the jailkeep claim but I think that choice was bizarre.

What do you think is Bizarre about it specifically?  Do you think the people picked have scum-intent behind why they were picked?  Both of them? One of them?  Do you feel that one of them is actually scum being networked in with a townie?

I understand where you are going though; I would have expected people like Eclipse or yourself to have been networked.  I'm still questioning as to why you weren't, that would have been 3 heads in one networker QT instead of 2.

[Shinori]

I don't understand the context then.  You stated you got something and made a small joke about it.

She commented "Lewd" in response to your joke.  I didn't see it as anything more than that.

[Snike]

I don't think Fable had a really really townie rep at the end of d1 so I don't know why he would be inserted into a network. I think he could possibly scum.

I think refa could've been inserted (outside of being scum) to try and give towncred to athena; I don't think he himself (Athena) decided to put refa in the topic in that case.

I pointed at eclipse bc afair she's the only one who made a comment about the item and she's an openly claimed mayor.

If she did in fact provide this item (as part of her role) we have scum.

If not I don't think it harms the gamestate that much bc it just means that the item giver, obviously, .And that's what should be assumed in any case by default, with what's public knowledge.

It might be a trivial basis for the question but it's not like the sully thing.

[Snike]

For the record I don't think refa is scum right now but I'm not going to discount it. I think it's more likely my second scenario.

[Snike]

that eclipse is not the item giver*

words are hard.

I am going to go and do other stuff for a while.  Cannot promise snappy response times.

 

[Athena_57]

I don't really like JB's earlier post tbh, if inactivity is your best defense then I don't even know what to say, except that scum!you would be perfectly fine with staying offline as long as the wagon your on keeps growing and nobody's questioning you. Than his Bibbon post comes along, I still like his questions to Bibbon tbh, and then he ends with:

1 hour ago, Jaybee said:

would mostly like some responses to my earlier post wrt bibbon, I feel better about her than I did D1 but not clear yet.

Where did that come from? You keep asking questions and accusing her, but you feel the need to leave yourself a way out without explaining what makes you feel better? Getting really bad vibes from that line tbh.

50 minutes ago, Snike said:

You were explaining bart's thought process and disagreeing with it, which is something that tends to happen as town. The next post I highlight has you backing away from him. That is backpedaling

The point was you got called on Bartozio's support and get defensive/distance yourself from him; This is also the OMGUS post that I cased page 24 and I think it is a noticeable shift away/backpedal. The quotes are there for the game to judge, however.

This isn't a misrep IMO.

You later townread weapons again in this post; why is the network not on him?

Why am I unmentioned? You call my stuff overblown and misrepped but then leave me as unnamed on list. ? ? ?

I don't think we should necessarily out tarots; It was a remark I made after noticing them in the first place + I agree that it's probably not friendly.

;/

40)

Refa and Athena back and forth; I feel like this reflects badly on athena bc he's more or less conceding the point/being amiable; which scum sometimes does to defuse an argument.

Quote 1 contains me saying I disagree with Barts specific reason for voting, but that I am voting Satsuma as well
Quote 2 contains me saying I disagree with Barts specific reason for voting, but that I am voting Satsuma as well

I cannot see why you think this is backpedaling at all, which is why I'm calling this a misrep or a really gross misunderstanding. I also don't see how I'm more backing away from him in the latter post than the former.

The network wasn't on weapons for a few reasons. First and foremost, I think Refa is a more active player and thus more likely to use a QT well. Yes, he had been less active day 1, but I felt improvement the last hours and the EIMM game he was in was about to end, which led me to conclude his activity would increase. Secondly, when I'm making a decision such as that I feel I should be trying to make up for my own blind spots by not only choosing someone I personally townread, but someone who's being townread universally, like a "wisdom of the crowds"-thing. That also improves the chance of the other connected person opening up to him.

You are unmentioned because you're null. What bothers me about you is, like you said, the nitpicking and overblowing of small things in my play. I am not certain however, whether you're scum trying to frame me and desperately searching my posts for things to do it with or a townie tunneling super hard under the assumption they found scum.
I could see it being both, which is why you're a member of the null pile, albeit a notable one.

I'm not conceding the point, I just feel the argument is over. He thinks that because not all of my townreads can be correct, I should start null/scum-reading one of them and I think that's BS as long as I don't know which one of them it is. Not much more to be said.

 

[Athena_57]

I'm confused by the Fable pick as well for the record. I don't know anyone besides Bibbon (maybe zeus?) who's been openly townreading him and it can't be her.

 

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

Feeling under the weather, gonna take it easy today.

I was kind of in the same boat of being down to wagon JB out of poe, but I’m okay with his defense and I don’t have much faith in poe at this point.

[Athena_57]

I don't even know why I'm bothering to correct this, but "for the record" was supposed to say "to be honest". This sentence hurts my eyes.

[BBM]

if martyr and jailer both target the same person, martyr would draw the jailer to themselves and essentially be protected by the jailer while not suffering from the hook due to priority. so i think macho martyr and jailer still work together.

[Athena_57]

I should mention, @Snike, when I said you were tunneling in my previous post, I didn't mean you ignore other people, more "zooming in super hard" on me, poor word choice on my part.

[Snike]

Or not because Athena showed up.

From the top:

My first line I mistyped; it's more something X does if X thinks Y is town; It implies a townread.

The thing I am getting at is a first you appear to be ok with Bart (when you respond to refa page 6), but then you back off as soon as that's called (the post you accuse Satsuma of being omgusy). That is what I am pointing at.

I don't think refa was being universally townread like Via was (and eclipse to a lesser degree). But then you already said you were afraid they were going to die. And eury doesn't fall into that category because you weren't townreading her. Ugh. I don't buy this but it's one of those things where it's feel over explanation. It's unfair to you but I can't really provide much of an explanation besides  saying I think it's faked because I've had to press you repeatedly for reasoning why.

That's an actual read. By lumping me in with the other nulls you're semi-implying that my stuff is unremarkable despite my being probably the #1 player you've been responding to. This is probably nitpicky but still.

You literally called me tunneling you the first post you had in response to my stuff; Did you not expect to be cased hard with a remark like that? You addressed this; I still disagree with tunnel stuff because I have been talking about the game outside this case. If we want to talk tunnel, I think Kirsche/Junko could be arguably that on either side (this isn't commenting on alignment or on merit of cases). 

I read the 40 exchange differently and the point of contention IMO is the paranoia rather than the townreads. He's not asking you to suddenly doubt them he's asking you about the certainty of your reads; the fact that you aren't expressing uncertainty on some of them or like fringe paranoia is what concerns him is what I read it as.

@BBM I was more referring to the doctor/martyr loop where they're on each other but that makes sense.

@WeaponsofMassConstruction Also wagoning on PoE is silly when there's 20 players in the game IMO. Wagon on cases.

[Athena_57]

5 minutes ago, Snike said:

Or not because Athena showed up.

From the top:

My first line I mistyped; it's more something X does if X thinks Y is town; It implies a townread.

The thing I am getting at is a first you appear to be ok with Bart (when you respond to refa page 6), but then you back off as soon as that's called (the post you accuse Satsuma of being omgusy). That is what I am pointing at.

I don't think refa was being universally townread like Via was (and eclipse to a lesser degree). But then you already said you were afraid they were going to die. And eury doesn't fall into that category because you weren't townreading her. Ugh. I don't buy this but it's one of those things where it's feel over explanation. It's unfair to you but I can't really provide much of an explanation besides  saying I think it's faked because I've had to press you repeatedly for reasoning why.

That's an actual read. By lumping me in with the other nulls you're semi-implying that my stuff is unremarkable despite my being probably the #1 player you've been responding to. This is probably nitpicky but still.

You literally called me tunneling you the first post you had in response to my stuff; Did you not expect to be cased hard with a remark like that? You addressed this; I still disagree with tunnel stuff because I have been talking about the game outside this case. If we want to talk tunnel, I think Kirsche/Junko could be arguably that on either side (this isn't commenting on alignment or on merit of cases). 

I read the 40 exchange differently and the point of contention IMO is the paranoia rather than the townreads. He's not asking you to suddenly doubt them he's asking you about the certainty of your reads; the fact that you aren't expressing uncertainty on some of them or like fringe paranoia is what concerns him is what I read it as.

Okay, now I see what you mean. As for me explaining his reasoning, I'm not sure it implies a townread, as I think scum can push bad cases with good reasons (or good cases for that matter). Me seeing someone's town!POV doesn't necessarily imply I think it's their true!POV. That later line of me defending against the buddy-attack, that's because I absolutely hate people framing my reads/cases (intentionally or unintentionally), which is why I've gotten so mad as people interpreting my Zeus-interaction as anything else than nullreading him. I wanted to make clear I was not okay with Bart's reasoning and was nullreading him to prevent people reading back to assume Satsuma's assessment was correct.

Question, would you have targeted Via or Eclipse with a QT in my shoes (so assuming my townreads)? It just feels so risky to me. When I'm coming out of day 1 one of the top wagons, I'm considering the possibility of me being lynched day 2. If I'm only leaving a single QT I want it to be available for most of the rest of the game, which is why I'm going for certainty here.

Not town and not scum ==> null for me and I felt our interactions made it clear I wasn't okay with the way you're presenting your case or the stuff it's based on, so I didn't think it was necessary specifically mentioning why you were null.

That's fair, I agree. (Both on you not tunneling and the other two tunneling, though even to them it's not completely fair)

Fact remains, you saying I concede the point is untrue. Also, I did express doubt over Eclipse in my earlier posts today, where I mentioned her just sort of sheeping your case on me and either ignoring or not bothering to read my replies on stuff like yesterday's lynch priority.

 

[Snike]

I would've targeted via. Esp. because I don't think he was dying n1 after insomniac 1-shot. It would be a fair guess to put doc on him and I don't think scum would use a strongman-like role to kill.

If you find him null I don't think you say (paraphrasing) "I disagree but I see no problem"; I think you case them or at least explain why they're null to you off that.

I disagree because I think you conceded you have no paranoia and (since) you didn't bother to address the call-out on your scumtargets you concede that you have been actively sheeping. This is my opinion however. What do other people think about this?

This is getting into a back and forth on opinion; I'm going to do other things for real this time.

 

[ZoesMad]

Work lasted longer than expected am finishing my readthrough now.

[Ampharos]

on the contrary to what's been stated earlier i think fable is a pretty damn good pick for neighborizer

-not a scumread

-v unlikely to die

-terse on d1 (meaning that talking more can only be a good thing as far as determining his alignment goes)

if approached from the perspective of "trying to figure out fable's alignment" i think it becomes a pretty dang good claim

[Ampharos]

er a pretty good NA target

words are hard

[Ampharos]

anyways i'm gonna reread marth claiming

the role itself is still a high ev scum role but i remember thinking the actual process of the claim felt genuine

and i need to see if that holds

[SullyMcGully]

OK, going to return to my big readthrough in a bit but it looks like I'll need to clarify my role a bit.

My role fails if the person I'm targeting uses a night action. My role failed last night. That means either:

A) Kirsche used a night action

B) I was RB'd

However, since Kirsche did not deny using a night action last night AND Elieson was an unlikely target for scum actions, I feel fairly certain my role failed because of him.

Also, can we just lynch Walrein already? I don't care if they're scum or not, nobody should get away with dissing SF mafia in an SF mafia game. I have a few choice words for MU myself, but do you see me complaining? No. That's because I'm courteous. Unlike some people.

[Ampharos]

i

hm

i think i changed my mind

"Actually I'll claim because people will waste their investigative roles on me." is not a thought a villager has. People who are already being scumread aren't good investigative role targets.

if we think of him as mafia afraid of copchecks, on the other hand, the thought makes sense

i think it was the "I'd rather not claim because it makes me functionally vanilla."

[Ampharos]

[Ampharos]

[Ampharos]

hello

testing one two three

[Ampharos]

ok what the hell that's weird as fuck

i think it was the "I'd rather not claim because it makes me functionally vanilla." post that had me townreading him but that's fakeable. ##Vote: Magnificence Incarnate

is what those posts were TRYING to say before SF exploded