November 2018 Legendary Banner Expectations

[mampfoid]

5 hours ago, DraceEmpressa said:

Real question, how does one draw a cavalry dragon's attacking sprite? 

Would the dragon have a mount or be the mount? 

[RexBolt]

6 hours ago, DraceEmpressa said:

Real question, how does one draw a cavalry dragon's attacking sprite? 

The same way one draws Seasonal Armors. Ignoring it all and slapping the move type at the end.

[DraceEmpressa]

22 minutes ago, RexBolt said:

The same way one draws Seasonal Armors. Ignoring it all and slapping the move type at the end.

Armors can look similar to infantry, even one of loading screen states so, armors is easier to play with

but fliers must in the very least float even if they didn't have wings, so is cavalry must be four-legged.

[Ice Dragon]

7 hours ago, RexBolt said:

The same way one draws Seasonal Armors. Ignoring it all and slapping the move type at the end.

The definition of "armor" has since shifted to simply mean "reduced movement range" rather than "wearing lots of armor". For example, Garon is infantry because his Nohrian King and Blight Dragon classes in Fates have standard infantry movement range, whereas Legendary Tiki can be justified as armored due to her human form in Mystery having less movement range than most infantry classes.

Cavalry for the time being still means "sitting on a non-flying mount".

Edited November 4, 2018 by Ice Dragon

[EricaofRenais]

I am going to guess we will either start getting two L!Heroes per color now or no new L!Hero this time.  I kind of hope there is no new one this time so I can skip the banner for the most part.  If S!Innes is on the banner I will pull green, but otherwise I will skip.

Edited November 4, 2018 by EricaofRenais

[DefyingFates]

39 minutes ago, EricaofRenais said:

I am going to guess we will either start getting two L!Heroes per color now or no new L!Hero this time.  I kind of hope there is no new one this time so I can skip the banner for the most part.  If S!Innes is on the banner I will pull green, but otherwise I will skip.

I can't imagine they'd stop adding Heroes without some fanfare or something taking their place (then again we could get a FEH Channel later this month). That said, I really want L!Lucina; the fewer the other units I also want, the better :P

Edit: @Ice Dragon; Fates had a Hoshidan class with mechanical mounts ("Mechanist", oddly enough). As for a cavalry dragon: maybe the dragon is always transformed (and IS the horse) or the horse just moves off-screen when the rider attacks? I've thought about this too.

Edited November 4, 2018 by DefyingFates

[Vince777]

11 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

 For example, Garon is infantry because his Nohrian King and Blight Dragon classes in Fates have standard infantry movement range, whereas Legendary Tiki can be justified as armored due to her human form in Mystery having less movement range than most infantry classes.

 

Sweet hypothesizing but I have serious doubts any of this really played out in any of both's decision. 

I'd still wager people are closer to the truth saying they just don't want to give away too many rare unit types for free.

 

[Ice Dragon]

1 hour ago, Vince777 said:

Sweet hypothesizing but I have serious doubts any of this really played out in any of both's decision. 

I'd still wager people are closer to the truth saying they just don't want to give away too many rare unit types for free.

You can discount it all you want, but it's a hell of a lot of coincidences that pile up when you also look at the other armored units that weren't weak to armor-effective weapons in their original games:

• Zephiel's King class in FE6 has the same movement range as a General (5).
• Hardin's Emperor class in FE3 and FE12 both have the same movement range as a General in their respective games (5 in FE3, 6 in FE12).
  • In FE12, the only promoted infantry classes with 6 movement range are Sorcerer, Sage, and Bishop.
• Grima's Grima class in FE13 has zero movement range.
  • Female Grima in Heroes obviously can't be armored because she flies. It's the same reason that Frederick is not armored: Heroes doesn't have composite movement types.
• Tiki is a weird case since her class as an ambiguous promotion situation, but whether or not we treat is as promoted or unpromoted actually doesn't matter much since she still matches promoted armors and is below average compared to unpromoted infantry.
  • In FE3, she has 5 movement range. This matches the movement range of a General if she counts as promoted and Armorknight, Archer, Pirate, and Cleric if counted as unpromoted. Of note, she has 2 less movement range than the Lord class, which her class shares its promotion ambiguity with.
  • In FE11 and FE12, she has 6 movement range. This matches the movement range of a General and promoted magic infantry classes if considered promoted and Fighter, Hunter, Pirate, Barbarian, and unpromoted non-staff magic infantry classes if counted as unpromoted. Of note, she has 1 less movement range than the Lord class, which her class shares its promotion ambiguity with (more so than FE3 since both classes cap at level 30 instead of level 20).
• Garon's Nohrian King and Blight Dragon classes in FE14 both have the same movement range as promoted infantry (6), which is 1 higher than the movement range of a General (5).

Garon is canonically an infantry unit.

 

On a side note because it is somewhat relevant, Cheine's Command class's movement range in FE3, 11, and 12 all match the movement range of promoted magic infantry classes in their respective games.

Edited November 5, 2018 by Ice Dragon

[Vince777]

2 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

You can discount it all you want, but it's a hell of a lot of coincidences that pile up

You didn't list too many units. Dancers always had pretty crappy movement, didn't they? About on par with Generals. 

I think everyone expected Zephiel and Hardin to be armored units and Grima could just be because his dragon form is just so darn massive. Tiki is the outlier here to me (and maybe Garon). Plus Tiki exists as an infantry unit as well and canonically, I don't think she changes significantly in any way in-between Shadow Dragon and Mystery of the Emblem.

I'm more interested to test this theory out though. See how it holds up with predictions rather than theorizing afterwards. Sadly, I cannot think of too many units to test this with but maybe you can?

Do you expect Duma and Medeus to be armored dragons? Earth dragons had decent movement (two more than generals in Mystery of the Emblem apparently) but Medeus is a bit different and is considerably slower.. and he could also be his Dark Dragon self but I think I'd dislike that. If Duma is armored, do you believe Mila, who according to CYL has a shot, needs to be as well? What about Lilith? Does she even have a movement stat? Do you think she's going to be armored because she does not?



 

Edited November 5, 2018 by Vince777

[Ice Dragon]

7 minutes ago, Vince777 said:

You didn't list too many units. Dancers always had pretty crappy movement, didn't they? About on par with Generals. 

• FE3: 6 movement. Standard for unpromoted infantry and 1 higher than Generals.
• FE4: 6 movement. Standard for physical infantry and 1 higher than all armored classes.
• FE5: 6 movement. Standard for unpromoted infantry and equal to Generals.
• FE6/7/8: 5 movement. Standard for unpromoted infantry and equal to Generals.
• FE12: 6 movement. Standard for physical unpromoted infantry and equal to Generals.

They are consistently on par with unpromoted infantry and equal to or better than promoted armor. There's very little to argue that the Dancer class is not treated as an unpromoted infantry class.

 

18 minutes ago, Vince777 said:

I think everyone expected Zephiel and Hardin to be armored units and Grima could just be because his dragon form is just so darn massive. Tiki is the outlier here to me (and maybe Garon). 

A simple explanation is typically better than a more complex one until shown false. There's no reason to go on a case-by-case basis when a simple explanation happens to have zero exceptions.

 

20 minutes ago, Vince777 said:

Do you expect Duma and Medeus to be armored dragons? Earth dragons had decent movement (two more than generals in Mystery of the Emblem apparently) but Medeus is a bit different and is considerably slower.. and he could also be his Dark Dragon self but I think I'd dislike that. If Duma is armored, do you believe Mila, who according to CYL has a shot, needs to be as well? What about Lilith? Does she even have a movement stat? Do you think she's going to be armored because she does not?

The Earth Dragon and Dark Dragon classes in FE3, 11, and 12 have exactly the same movement range as Tiki's Mamkute class in each game. I'm not sure if you're reading the right numbers; only transformed Fire Dragons and transformed Divine Dragons in FE3 have 7 movement range.

Duma's Fell God class in FE15 has 2 movement, the lowest of all classes in the game, which gives him every argument to be armored under my predictions despite not having a class for his human form. Mila is likely to also be armored for parity.

Does Lilith actually have an in-game class? I haven't actually played Fates and wouldn't know.

Also of note, the Dragon Tribe of Tellius also has movement comparable to armors in their games, with untransformed dragons having 5 movement and transformed dragons having 6 movement, corresponding to unpromoted and promoted armors, though Tellius's magic infantry also share that movement range stat, so they can really go either way.

 

If you feel the need to want to mention Tiki's normal version being infantry, that's easily explained by the same reasoning as Narcian's axe, among other things. FE13 has the Mamkute class matching the movement range of promoted infantry, much like how games from FE10 onward have axes as the primary weapon for dragon knights. The characters are simply using versions of their class from more modern games.

[Icelerate]

3 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

• FE3: 6 movement. Standard for unpromoted infantry and 1 higher than Generals.
• FE4: 6 movement. Standard for physical infantry and 1 higher than all armored classes.
• FE5: 6 movement. Standard for unpromoted infantry and equal to Generals.
• FE6/7/8: 5 movement. Standard for unpromoted infantry and equal to Generals.
• FE12: 6 movement. Standard for physical unpromoted infantry and equal to Generals.

 

In FE9 and FE10, armours have the same movement as mages. Armoured Micaiah when? 

[Jingle Jangle]

34 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

In FE9 and FE10, armours have the same movement as mages. Armoured Micaiah when? 

You want her res stat to reach her Radiant Dawn counterpart? So that she's the biggest mage tank in the game?

[Icelerate]

15 minutes ago, Jingle Bells said:

You want her res stat to reach her Radiant Dawn counterpart? So that she's the biggest mage tank in the game?

I haven't thought about that but 40 base res and 40 base magic would be nice. 

[Ice Dragon]

1 hour ago, Icelerate said:

In FE9 and FE10, armours have the same movement as mages. Armoured Micaiah when? 

Being undeniably magic infantry means you're magic infantry, even in a game where magic infantry has the same movement as armors.

If there is only 1 point of difference between the movement ranges of armors and physical infantry, you're pretty much forced to have magic infantry either share their movement range with armors or with physical infantry.

Although Heroes doesn't make a distinction between the two, you'd be pretty hard-pressed to argue that Serra has a physical infantry class based simply on the fact that magic infantry and physical infantry have the same movement range in her game. Or, you know, that Laegjarn is an infantry class based solely on the fact that she has 2 movement range in her source game of Heroes.

[Vince777]

8 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

• Does Lilith actually have an in-game class? I haven't actually played Fates and wouldn't know.

Yes, astral dragon class. She's an NPC guarding your castle in castle defense maps. She can heal or defend herself, depending on the version you play (or both if playing Revelation). You can level her up by giving her fruits.

She doesn't move from her spot though but she's also a tiny dragon so I'm not sure if you'd make her an armored unit for it. 

 

Edited November 5, 2018 by Vince777

[Ice Dragon]

1 hour ago, Vince777 said:

She doesn't move from her spot though but she's also a tiny dragon so I'm not sure if you'd make her an armored unit for it. 

The Astral Dragon class has 6 movement range, which is the same as promoted infantry.

[Jingle Jangle]

With both version of Corrin being on the newest banner, and Azura being the next TT reward. They have a low chance of being the next leg unit, maybe next year.

[NSSKG151]

5 hours ago, Jingle Bells said:

With both version of Corrin being on the newest banner, and Azura being the next TT reward. They have a low chance of being the next leg unit, maybe next year.

I kind of figured if Fates is getting another Legendary Hero Xander would be next (please don't make him a sword unit too) because Ryoma got one but yeah Azura and the Corrins getting alts now kind of sent a signal (to me at least) that they are not getting Legendary alts, or at the very least, not being part of the first twelve legendary heroes.

[Fire Emblem Fan]

I'm fully expecting Xander or Takumi or Sakura or something as this month's Legendary now.

[colossus86]

6 minutes ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

I'm fully expecting Xander or Takumi or Sakura or something as this month's Legendary now.

Could have sworn we killed this "related banners" theory a while ago. Eirika, Tiki, Lyn, and sort of Marth all didn't have banners for their game foreshadowing their release.

[redlight]

There aren't any banner relations. IS kills anything that becomes predictable

[Hilda]

I do believe the next legendary hero will be a Free new OG like Fjorm. Maybe its Hrid, maybe its someone from a totally new kingdom/cast. This is also the reason why all colors have a legendary allready in November. the new OG will be just icing on the cake (also because they are running out of Seasonals). This will start the trend of setting up 2 legendarys per color.

[Fire Emblem Fan]

12 hours ago, colossus86 said:

Could have sworn we killed this "related banners" theory a while ago. Eirika, Tiki, Lyn, and sort of Marth all didn't have banners for their game foreshadowing their release.

I'm just a little salty about the Adrift banner. The first banner I've ever actually REALLY disliked.

[DefyingFates]

On 07/11/2018 at 3:21 PM, colossus86 said:

Could have sworn we killed this "related banners" theory a while ago. Eirika, Tiki, Lyn, and sort of Marth all didn't have banners for their game foreshadowing their release.

I'd argue there are two patterns to predict a LHero (I don't know if Tiki fits though):

1. Is the month's New Heroes banner based on a particular game or theme (if we assume L!Marth happened as a tie-in to CYL)?

2. If not, did any main game have its anniversary this month (hence Lyn and Eirika*)?

* I suppose you could argue she's actually a tie-in to the redux banner, since Camilla isn't a Lord and would have been skipped for a Legendary slot as a result.

As such I think we can conclude this will be a Fates Hero and, since both Corrins are in the banner, will probably be Xander (unless they use Anankos or possibly Arete for the waifu money). This will also be a Water Hero for bonus Fates synergy.

Edited November 10, 2018 by DefyingFates

[Alkaid]

I'm hoping the 3rd blue and colorless picks are good ones. Cordelia with Lucina on blue and Noire with Grima on colorless is almost guaranteed, and that's absolutely perfect for me. As long as the 3rd units on those colors don't sour the pools this banner will be ideal.

I'm going to guess we could get legendary Xander this time, but I don't mind who it is since unless it's a legendary Camilla or Cordelia I'm not straying from sniping blue/colorless.

Edited November 10, 2018 by Alkaid