Aether Raids General Thread

[Anacybele]

1 minute ago, Jave said:

You already know that you're wrong. We've all told you here. You seriously believe that everyone here is misinformed about this or purposely lying to you?

No, I don't. And yes, it's certainly possible that you're misinformed. But do NOT put words in my mouth, I am not calling anyone here a liar.

Edited June 1, 2019 by Anacybele

[Jave]

1 minute ago, Anacybele said:

No, I don't. And yes, it's certainly possible that you're misinformed. But do NOT put words in my mouth, I am not calling anyone here a liar.

Okay. Do whatever. You just don't want to admit you're wrong at this point and hoping nobody will remember tomorrow.

[Tybrosion]

11 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

Don't understand why fort levels are even a thing. It just penalizes new players even further. How do you incentive new people to play AR when they are inexperienced and have to deal with massive stat differential? Where is the intelligence in that Intelligent Systems? 

The only thing I can think of is to punish people for abandoning the mode for a few months but that seems kind of evil. 

Yup. It should go without saying that I, as someone who only started seriously playing this mode in early April, have come to fucking despise the fortress level mechanic for the reasons you stated plus the fact that you don't get the resources to level them up nearly fast enough. Being at a constant two (sometimes three) level fort disadvantage, on top of all of this mode's other bullshit, is the absolute worst. Arena only wishes it could be this much of a shitty hellhole.

[Anacybele]

6 minutes ago, Jave said:

Okay. Do whatever. You just don't want to admit you're wrong at this point and hoping nobody will remember tomorrow.

LOL. Wow, you really believe that nonsense? But again, there's no need to be fucking rude. If I find I'm wrong, I'll admit it. No big deal. As disappointing as it might be.

3 minutes ago, Tybrosion said:

Yup. It should go without saying that I, as someone who only started seriously playing this mode in early April, have come to fucking despise the fortress level mechanic for the reasons you stated plus the fact that you don't get the resources to level them up nearly fast enough. Being at a constant two (sometimes three) level fort disadvantage, on top of all of this mode's other bullshit, is the absolute worst. Arena only wishes it could be this much of a shitty hellhole.

Yeah, I'm not a big fan of AR either. I just do it because I want to +10 female Robin. But IS will surely implement changes if enough people send feedback.

[Tree]

12 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

Don't understand why fort levels are even a thing. It just penalizes new players even further. How do you incentive new people to play AR when they are inexperienced and have to deal with massive stat differential? Where is the intelligence in that Intelligent Systems? 

The only thing I can think of is to punish people for abandoning the mode for a few months but that seems kind of evil. 

They changed AR recently and now give massive bonuses to the attackers below Tier 11. After Tier 11, fortress level begins to matter. I think it's just setting people up for an unpleasant surprise once they pass Tier 11. I guess they want new players to reach Tier 11 as soon as possible since you can't fall below that Tier.

8 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

A sixth open slot should mean a sixth possible member.

I agree that it should. I also think that both teams should be limited to one dancer. Why are 20 unit brigades limited to a single refresher unit, but small AR teams not?

4 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

If I find that I'm wrong tomorrow though, I'm immediately sending feedback to IS.

In all honesty, I'd go ahead and draft that feedback today explaining your reasoning, rather than wait until tomorrow. You'll be angry tomorrow, and it's best to not write feedback while upset as you won't be able to get your points across as effectively. Also, you'll have an extra day to review/refine your arguments and also remove any angry statements before actually sending it. Your wanting six offensive units is probably a fairly popular opinion.

[Anacybele]

1 minute ago, Tree said:

I agree that it should. I also think that both teams should be limited to one dancer. Why are 20 unit brigades limited to a single refresher unit, but small AR teams not?

Yeah, that's a great point too. I forgot about the brigades used in GC and stuff.

1 minute ago, Tree said:

In all honesty, I'd go ahead and draft that feedback today explaining your reasoning, rather than wait until tomorrow. You'll be angry tomorrow, and it's best to not write feedback while upset as you won't be able to get your points across as effectively. Also, you'll have an extra day to review/refine your arguments and also remove any angry statements before actually sending it. Your wanting six offensive units is probably a fairly popular opinion.

That's an understandable suggestion, but lately I've been a little better than I used to about handling frustration/anger. Not a LOT, I admit, but...some progress is there.

[Nym]

6 minutes ago, Tybrosion said:

Yup. It should go without saying that I, as someone who only started seriously playing this mode in early April, have come to fucking despise the fortress level mechanic for the reasons you stated plus the fact that you don't get the resources to level them up nearly fast enough. Being at a constant two (sometimes three) level fort disadvantage, on top of all of this mode's other bullshit, is the absolute worst. Arena only wishes it could be this much of a shitty hellhole.

I don't even wanna know how awful this must be for someone who just got into the games and missed stones and grails.

Not that this gamemode is even good in the first place and IS doesn't seem to want to balance aside of maps changes. I just play it for grails.

Although @Anacybele is not correct, I wish so much she was. People have learned how to make sure that the ai does-- to some degree-- what they really want through the use of rally traps and ai order of attack. Especially since the defense team can pretty much move whatever they want, we would really need a 6th member so badly.

[Anacybele]

Just now, Nym said:

Although @Anacybele is not correct, I wish so much she was. People have learned how to make sure that the ai does-- to some degree-- what they really want through the use of rally traps and ai order of attack. Especially since the defense team can pretty much move whatever they want, we would really need a 6th member so badly. 

Glad to hear I'm definitely not the only one with this opinion. However, I can see IS eventually implementing that change. I'd also like them to change it so adding more members doesn't require Aether stones, or at least cut the Aether stone cost for it. 300 each for offense and defense is far too high imo. I'm lucky I'd have enough if I could do both now.

[Nym]

1 minute ago, Anacybele said:

Glad to hear I'm definitely not the only one with this opinion. However, I can see IS eventually implementing that change. I'd also like them to change it so adding more members doesn't require Aether stones, or at least cut the Aether stone cost for it. 300 each for offense and defense is far too high imo. I'm lucky I'd have enough if I could do both now.

I can see it too for both solutions. Sadly in my opinion, it would be more of a band-aid solution more than anything else.

What I REALLY wish they would do to make this gamemode less frustrating is to limit the number of refresher/dancers/singers to 1 per team. It would be possible to do considering they already limit the numbers of dancers on Rival domains.

[Tree]

At least fortress levels stop at 5. I'm at 5/4 now, and the defense one will probably be maxed before too long. I imagine many higher up players already have 5/5. There isn't anything to spend Aether Dew on at that point.

[Ice Dragon]

This game mode is supposed to be difficult. That's why it gives some of the rarest resources as a reward. That's why they intentionally put your offense team at a one-unit disadvantage (also because the AI kind of needs a handicap to be competitive). That's why teams in this mode have virtually no restrictions on what you are and are not allowed to bring.

Being Tier 19+ is supposed to be an achievement and not something that everyone and their dog can attain. Reaching Tier 20 or Tier 21 in Aether Raids is deserving of the same kind of fanfare as getting your first Arena crown.

[Anacybele]

3 minutes ago, Nym said:

I can see it too for both solutions. Sadly in my opinion, it would be more of a band-aid solution more than anything else.

What I REALLY wish they would do to make this gamemode less frustrating is to limit the number of refresher/dancers/singers to 1 per team. It would be possible to do considering they already limit the numbers of dancers on Rival domains.

Band-aid or not though, it'd still be helpful to a degree. But yeah, those aren't the only solutions needed, as you pointed out with the dancer thing. I've actually yet to really run into any teams that use more than one though.

@Ice Dragon Yes, but I'd think that you of all people would know the difference between reasonably challenging/difficult and want-to-fucking-pull-your-hair-out difficult. Still though, I actually don't really care much about getting to tier 20 or 21 or higher. Just like I've never cared about getting an arena crown. I just know I'm not the kind of player that could ever get there and I don't really NEED to.

Edited June 1, 2019 by Anacybele

[eclipse]

Just now, Anacybele said:

Band-aid or not though, it'd still be helpful to a degree. But yeah, those aren't the only solutions needed, as you pointed out with the dancer thing. I've actually yet to really run into any teams that use more than one though.

I've run into far too many dual-dancer teams.  Luckily, I snagged Fjorm, so I Isolate one and bait the other, and it usually works out.

As for the max unit layout, it's five for attacking, and six for defending, if memory serves me right.  Why it's like this is beyond me, especially with the "put one unit in the corner" nonsense.  Alm is a godsend for those units.

[Anacybele]

2 minutes ago, eclipse said:

I've run into far too many dual-dancer teams.  Luckily, I snagged Fjorm, so I Isolate one and bait the other, and it usually works out.

As for the max unit layout, it's five for attacking, and six for defending, if memory serves me right.  Why it's like this is beyond me, especially with the "put one unit in the corner" nonsense.  Alm is a godsend for those units.

I see. Maybe it's on higher tiers still then that they're more common. I tend to try baiting out legendary Azuras with a green tome or whatever myself though, or try to kill the refresher asap no matter who it is.

I really hate that some players box one unit up in a corner behind stuff. It's annoying as hell.

Edited June 1, 2019 by Anacybele

[Nym]

4 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

This game mode is supposed to be difficult.

I know you put supposed on italic on purpose but I've seen my share of AR videos from many Feh youtubers.

It's only difficult for those that don't use cheesy strats with double Eir (and soon double Naga) and a Keaton or a super tank.

6 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Being Tier 19+ is supposed to be an achievement and not something that everyone and their dog can attain. Reaching Tier 20 or Tier 21 in Aether Raids is deserving of the same kind of fanfare as getting your first Arena crown.

Just like in Arena, I don't believe it's an achievement. It's just depends how much you are willing to invest (aka use your wallet) or if you are lucky.

7 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

I've actually yet to really run into any teams that use more than one though.

Then I wish you to never experience it if you don't have a cheese strat.

Double Legendary Azura or Azura with Leanne or Reyson would give me nightmares if I gave a damn about this gamemode.

[Ice Dragon]

2 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Yes, but I'd think that you of all people would know the difference between reasonably challenging/difficult and want-to-fucking-pull-your-hair-out difficult.

The only thing that made this game mode egregiously difficult in the past for me was the fact that I was relying on only 1 offense team archetype. I've since diversified my teams, and I've found that really the biggest challenge in this mode isn't actually playing the maps, but building a diverse enough set of offense teams so that you can choose how to handle each map rather than let the map push you around.

 

That said, Seliph is still the absolute dumbest thing that exists in this mode.

[eclipse]

2 minutes ago, Nym said:

Double Legendary Azura or Azura with Leanne or Reyson would give me nightmares if I gave a damn about this gamemode.

Try Legendary Azura and Axe Azura, both with Wings of Mercy.

Thank goodness for Fjorm.  And that Legendary Azura was placed in such a way that I could bait her.

[Tree]

Just now, Nym said:

I can see it too for both solutions. Sadly in my opinion, it would be more of a band-aid solution more than anything else.

What I REALLY wish they would do to make this gamemode less frustrating is to limit the number of refresher/dancers/singers to 1 per team. It would be possible to do considering they already limit the numbers of dancers on Rival domains. 

With the recent Fjorm preventing assists in cardinal directions, I think they plan to monetize "fixes" to the multi-dancer problem. If enough players get annoyed, maybe we'll actually see more unarmed defenses in Tier 21.

1 minute ago, Ice Dragon said:

This game mode is supposed to be difficult. That's why it gives some of the rarest resources as a reward. That's why they intentionally put your offense team at a one-unit disadvantage (also because the AI kind of needs a handicap to be competitive). That's why teams in this mode have virtually no restrictions on what you are and are not allowed to bring.

The problem is the exclusive grail rewards. If grail units were available for orbs, then I'd wait for a corresponding banner and leave AR alone. Yes, you can get 40 grails a month from Forging Bonds, but it would probably take a decade to max one character at that rate of acquisition.

1 minute ago, Ice Dragon said:

Being Tier 19+ is supposed to be an achievement and not something that everyone and their dog can attain. Reaching Tier 20 or Tier 21 in Aether Raids is deserving of the same kind of fanfare as getting your first Arena crown.

That applies to AR ranking thrones, but not AR Tiers. There is no displayed counter for how long you've maintained a particular AR tier.

1 minute ago, Ice Dragon said:

That said, Seliph is still the absolute dumbest thing that exists in this mode.

I underestimated a six Seliph team once... It wasn't pretty. ?

[Jave]

Wait, why is Seliph so infamous in this mode? I don't bother with too many strategies in AR (which is likely why I'm stuck in Tier 19 forever), and I don't think I've run into him much.

[Nym]

4 minutes ago, eclipse said:

Try Legendary Azura and Axe Azura, both with Wings of Mercy.

I have faced that before, but since I'm in Tier 20, I still can get away with a raventome F Robin. Usually the unit that attacks die so it doesn't work. Of course it depends on how they made their map...

Yeah see, if the team would be limited to one dancer and you kill the dancer, it would more fair for a 5 vs 6.

[Tree]

Just now, Jave said:

Wait, why is Seliph so infamous in this mode? I don't bother with too many strategies in AR (which is likely why I'm stuck in Tier 19 forever), and I don't think I've run into him much.

His miracle refine is... interesting...

Also the team I fought was maxed and had been well designed with full premium skills like Null C-Disrupt, etc.

[Ice Dragon]

2 minutes ago, Tree said:

The problem is the exclusive grail rewards. If grail units were available for orbs, then I'd wait for a corresponding banner and leave AR alone. Yes, you can get 40 grails a month from Forging Bonds, but it would probably take a decade to max one character at that rate of acquisition.

All the more reason to try harder, then, if you want those rewards. Maybe I'm just turning into an old geezer, but rewards should be earned, not expected to be handed out for free.

 

4 minutes ago, Tree said:

That applies to AR ranking thrones, but not AR Tiers. There is no displayed counter for how long you've maintained a particular AR tier.

Your first crown. There is no displayed counter for how many first crowns you've received. You either got one or you didn't. People in the Arena thread like to post screenshots of them receiving their first crown, and we congratulate them for it because such fanfare is well-deserved.

 

2 minutes ago, Jave said:

Wait, why is Seliph so infamous in this mode? I don't bother with too many strategies in AR (which is likely why I'm stuck in Tier 19 forever), and I don't think I've run into him much.

Tyrfing's base effect after refine (free Miracle if he starts combat with 50% HP or more) prevents you from killing Seliph in one round of combat unless you can do enough damage to drop him to 1 HP in the first hit. This makes him incredibly hard to bait because if you can't drop him to 1 HP in your first hit, you're stuck with a 1 HP Seliph right in front of your units ready for all of the enemy's Wings of Mercy units to teleport to him.

And if Seliph has Distant Counter + Vantage + Vengeance, then you're basically unable to kill him unless you have Firesweep or Hardy Bearing.

[Landmaster]

9 minutes ago, Jave said:

Wait, why is Seliph so infamous in this mode? I don't bother with too many strategies in AR (which is likely why I'm stuck in Tier 19 forever), and I don't think I've run into him much.

With his free Miracle in his weapon and QR, he's pretty much free to just infinite Miracle and restore his own HP with Sol/Aether and have the other units clean up for him

[Vicious Sal]

57 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

No, I don't. And yes, it's certainly possible that you're misinformed. But do NOT put words in my mouth, I am not calling anyone here a liar.

You are saying we are all wrong, people who have had way more time in T19 and above. That is at least implying something. But I am lookibg forward to your proof tomorrow. Please do share.

 

The defense team is controlled by a predetermined  set of rules and commands to follow. It can’t look ahead and predict movements. It is a a severe disadvantage. So a 5v6 is more than fair. 

 

I do agree IS could have handled certain things better, like the fortress discrepancy in the tier 12 range. Multiple dancers, though not a gamebreaking thing, could be restricted to keep in line with Rival Domains. I wouldn’t mind it bit I can work around it. 

Other than that Ice Dragon has said all there is to say. It is also certainly not Pay2Win, since many F2P people have made it and are thriving in T21.

[Jave]

29 minutes ago, Tree said:

His miracle refine is... interesting...

Also the team I fought was maxed and had been well designed with full premium skills like Null C-Disrupt, etc.

 

23 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Tyrfing's base effect after refine (free Miracle if he starts combat with 50% HP or more) prevents you from killing Seliph in one round of combat unless you can do enough damage to drop him to 1 HP in the first hit. This makes him incredibly hard to bait because if you can't drop him to 1 HP in your first hit, you're stuck with a 1 HP Seliph right in front of your units ready for all of the enemy's Wings of Mercy units to teleport to him.

And if Seliph has Distant Counter + Vantage + Vengeance, then you're basically unable to kill him unless you have Firesweep or Hardy Bearing.

 

21 minutes ago, Landmaster said:

With his free Miracle in his weapon and QR, he's pretty much free to just infinite Miracle and restore his own HP with Sol/Aether and have the other units clean up for him

Wow, I completely forgot about his Miracle refine. That certainly sounds like it could lead to some... interesting Defense teams.