Serenes Forest's Teehee Thread

[Acacia Sgt]

7 minutes ago, BrightBow said:

That would make sense if the other characters in advanced classes got the same treatment, but they didn't. All of them still have the same bases as a level 1 unit.
Instead the remake gave them the exp gain of a level 21 unit.

I think it's because with the exception of Lorenz, they were already promoted in the original. Wolf and Sedgar were the only ones that went from base to advanced classes in the transition, while even in the original General already felt like a promoted Knight... even if there was no promotion from one to the other.

The transition from "straight 20 caps regardless of tier" to "increased caps for promoted classes" likely also helped with the decision to give them souped up growths to compensate retaining their original classes. Being demoted to Hunters could've worked... but then it beats the point of the full-mounted Wolfguard and the horsemen of the Aurelis plains.

[Acacia Sgt]

Well, since he was mentioned hours ago...

You know, now I'm curious. Got to see if Shu's VA has worked on FE already...

Edited October 1, 2022 by Acacia Sgt

[BrightBow]

2 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

I think it's because with the exception of Lorenz, they were already promoted in the original. Wolf and Sedgar were the only ones that went from base to advanced classes in the transition, while even in the original General already felt like a promoted Knight... even if there was no promotion from one to the other.

The transition from "straight 20 caps regardless of tier" to "increased caps for promoted classes" likely also helped with the decision to give them souped up growths to compensate retaining their original classes. Being demoted to Hunters could've worked... but then it beats the point of the full-mounted Wolfguard and the horsemen of the Aurelis plains.

But starting out in an advanced class didn't nerf them in any way in FE3. They were still getting EXP at the same rate as everyone else, just like in the 1st game.

[Acacia Sgt]

Just now, BrightBow said:

But starting out in an advanced class didn't nerf them in any way in FE3. They were still getting EXP at the same rate as everyone else, just like in the 1st game.

Mystery still had the 20 caps across the board, would be my guess, so they didn't need high growths there, unlike for Shadow Dragon.

[BrightBow]

Just now, Acacia Sgt said:

Mystery still had the 20 caps across the board, would be my guess, so they didn't need high growths there, unlike for Shadow Dragon.

But all the other characters starting out at level 1 in an advanced class are just fine as is?

[Acacia Sgt]

Ah, okay, I see. Takehito Koyasu has been...

Oh, he was Navarre since the OVA and still is. So close, but shame Midorikawa wasn't Ogma, hehehe.

Hmm... Lon'qu, Validar, Niles, Saber, Lewyn, Pent, Seteth. Well, a much higher FE folio than Midorikawa at least.

[Acacia Sgt]

1 minute ago, BrightBow said:

But all the other characters starting out at level 1 in an advanced class are just fine as is?

It's hard to say at this point, really. Since we have to take into account Kaga left IS by then, and the people who worked on SD weren't likely to be the same ones who did the original Mystery. So they had a different philosophy in regards to this discrepancy. It's the only sensible answer left... maybe.

[Acacia Sgt]

Wait... in Mystery, Horsemen could "demote" back to Hunters, via Dismounting. Perhaps this peculiarity is the reason Horseman couldn't have a different EXP gain spread?

[BrightBow]

Wolf and Sedgar are no different from all the other prepromotes in FE11. They have the bases of level 1 units with the EXP gain of level 21 units.
if one thinks that needs to be fixed with overkill growths, it stands to reason the same would be done for anyone else starting out in an advanced class. Except maybe Jagen due to him being around from the start.

[BrightBow]

1 minute ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Wait... in Mystery, Horsemen could "demote" back to Hunters, via Dismounting. Perhaps this peculiarity is the reason Horseman couldn't have a different EXP gain spread?

But EXP gain in FE3 is independent from unit level. The only thing that matters is the class of the enemy you kill.
So there is no difference in the EXP gain of a level 1 unit and a level 21 unit in the first place.

[Acacia Sgt]

2 minutes ago, BrightBow said:

Wolf and Sedgar are no different from all the other prepromotes in FE11. They have the bases of level 1 units with the EXP gain of level 21 units.
if one thinks that needs to be fixed with overkill growths, it stands to reason the same would be done for anyone else starting out in an advanced class. Except maybe Jagen due to him being around from the start.

But then we come back to the beginning. They were the only ones who changed from base class to promoted class, so the SD developers felt they had to be compensated, because it wouldn't work to demote them to Hunters due to Aurelis' theme. The rest of the promoted characters weren't affected, so they felt no need to do the same to them.

[Acacia Sgt]

Sure, you can disagree with them about how to do it, but I don't think the point was that it was something the other prepromoted units deserved to be given the same, since the point was to "correct" the problem that arose by keeping Wolf and Sedgar as Horsemen after the class became the promoted version of Hunter. Kaga didn't thought the same, but by this point we're talking of different people after twenty years. Things were bound to change.

[BrightBow]

Just now, Acacia Sgt said:

But then we come back to the beginning. They were the only ones who changed from base class to promoted class, so the SD developers felt they had to be compensated, because it wouldn't work to demote them to Hunters due to Aurelis' theme. The rest of the promoted characters weren't affected, so they felt no need to do the same to them.

But that's just an entirely arbitrary distinction. A pure technicality with no practical impact. It's not like Horsemen being categorized as an advanced class nerfed them in any way.

But then again, we are talking about the same geniuses that introduced the weapon triangle into a game where like 90% of enemies use lances. The remake's design decisions just don't make a lot of sense.

[Acacia Sgt]

7 minutes ago, BrightBow said:

But that's just an entirely arbitrary distinction. A pure technicality with no practical impact. It's not like Horsemen being categorized as an advanced class nerfed them in any way.

But then again, we are talking about the same geniuses that introduced the weapon triangle into a game where like 90% of enemies use lances. The remake's design decisions just don't make a lot of sense.

Now that's true. That amalgam of preserving things as they were but also trying to patch the more modern mechanics on top of it was... could've been done better. Certainly a full overhaul, but since at this point FE was kinda in decline, perhaps that affected too the design process

 Like, is it too much of a coincidence that what could've possibly been the last FE games to be remakes of the OG Lord, as a kinda Book Ends feel to it...? FE began with Marth... and with Marth would end. Hence Awakening going for a distant sequel of his adventures where "he" still got a role in it, even if by proxy via Lucina, and is now the talk of legend... and the remains of his ancient legacy.

Hmm... averting the Bad Future of Ylisse... or of FE as a whole? Am I now overthinking this? XD

Edited October 1, 2022 by Acacia Sgt

[GuardianSing]

It's interesting that the 3DS has the ability to take screenshots but just doesn't have a natural way to do it in any games other than Smash bros, same for the Wii U.

Anyways I have say, it's a pretty ballsy move of Fire Emblem to give me a level 1 Myrmidon on the 11th map that can't do more than 1 damage to all the enemy units.

Also I recruited Roger, who is a simp but that's more of a personality than many of these units have given me so I'll take it.

Also thanks Caeda for going up to a random guy and convincing him to join. If you could do that for all remaining soldiers that would be great.

 

 

[Acacia Sgt]

5 minutes ago, Edelguardiansing said:

Anyways I have say, it's a pretty ballsy move of Fire Emblem to give me a level 1 Myrmidon on the 11th map that can't do more than 1 damage to all the enemy units.

He had those same stats in the original, where they worked much better over there, as it were.

Quote

Also I recruited Roger, who is a simp but that's more of a personality than many of these units have given me so I'll take it.

Also thanks Caeda for going up to a random guy and convincing him to join. If you could do that for all remaining soldiers that would be great.

 

 

 

Edited October 1, 2022 by Acacia Sgt

[joevar]

  

4 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Ah, I see. Yeah, we're hardly going to get another reimagining of the original, then. Well, so long their character isn't entirely centered on just their lineage, I think it's fine.

Well, some kind of settlement had finally been reached with Harmony Gold, no? Last I heard. So perhaps... perhaps...

I wouldn't give up on it just for that. Though admittedly I speak as someone who also likes SRW for more than just the gameplay, admittedly.

Sorry buddy, but I'm Contractually Obligated (TM). Only acceptible substitue:

Heck, after today with our country's statement in the UNSC, perhaps even more so. 

Since this is an anniversary game, it's to be expected. Like him or not, but Marth is the cornerstone of FE. Sure, even if he's not the most popular lord nowadays... but founder-rights ensures him a spot, always.

last i check its just distribution agreement. imagine one company in USA managed to block people worldwide from enjoying the rest of macross "legally" for decades and beyond (seven and newer series still dont have news of releasing in US). not that i care since i live in SEA. imagine if you can see a counter that show "how many people around the world curse you" harmony gold will be quite high in the counter.

not having iconic movesets is a sin. its like macross ship cant shoot its ultra big beam, G.Freedom cant use Meteor, Wing Zero cant shoot beam while spinning like a ballerina, Yamato cant shoot wave motion cannon, Mazinger cant breastfire, and so on.

pants-less marth is cool you know.  popular is not the issue. rather, just give him another sequel, and im sure going to be one of people who want to play it. but needless pandering?
come on,...

 

2 hours ago, Edelguardiansing said:

his reaction should have been this:

 

[Eltosian Kadath]

1 hour ago, BrightBow said:

It's not like Horsemen being categorized as an advanced class nerfed them in any way.

 

Yes it does, as the experience formula of FE11 is based on the enemy, and unit's level, and whether or not they are promoted, whereas FE1 and FE3 experience formula wasn't, which leads to being promoted being a debuff to them in FE11 because it takes more effort for them to gain levels. Them arriving promoted at a time when they should be unpromoted leads to much lower experience gain, whereas other prepromoted units arrive at points in the game where they are either supposed to be strong (like Jagen), or where that level scaling doesn't negatively impact them in as dramatic a way.

 

2 hours ago, BrightBow said:

Wolf and Sedgar are no different from all the other prepromotes in FE11. They have the bases of level 1 units with the EXP gain of level 21 units.
if one thinks that needs to be fixed with overkill growths, it stands to reason the same would be done for anyone else starting out in an advanced class. Except maybe Jagen due to him being around from the start.

The thing they are trying to fix is that they designed them like they were unpromoted, like in the original, despite their class now be a promoted class. Other prepromoted units have personal base stats, and weapon ranks that are far less embarrassingly bad than Sedgar and Wolf. Even Jagen has double the number of bonus stats those two have from personal bases combined, and infinitely more personal weapon rank experience, as those two are the only prepromoted units with 0. They arrive with default base stats, and weapon ranks so low that the unpromoted units that arrive with them are fairly comparable despite them having promotion gains already factored in. That seems like an intentional design decision to hearken back to when they were unpromoted units. To compensate for them being like unpromoted units, and make them feel more like unpromoted units, despite being prepromoted, they were given much higher growths, which come across as overkill, but I get the logic. Much lower exp gain, and far less levels to gain should be fixed by much higher growths.

 

1 hour ago, Edelguardiansing said:

 

Anyways I have say, it's a pretty ballsy move of Fire Emblem to give me a level 1 Myrmidon on the 11th map that can't do more than 1 damage to all the enemy units.

Ah Radd...he is a bit of a meme...

Which reminds me, did you buy the extra Wing Spear from the shop in that chapter? or the extra Rapier?

 

2 hours ago, Edelguardiansing said:

 

Also thanks Caeda for going up to a random guy and convincing him to join. If you could do that for all remaining soldiers that would be great.

She has already done that with Castor, Navarre, and now Roger, and he wont be the last man she convinces to join. There are a lot of jokes about her being a siren.

[Acacia Sgt]

2 minutes ago, joevar said:

  last i check its just distribution agreement. imagine one company in USA managed to block people worldwide from enjoying the rest of macross "legally" for decades and beyond (seven and newer series still dont have news of releasing in US). not that i care since i live in SEA. imagine if you can see a counter that show "how many people around the world curse you" harmony gold will be quite high in the counter.

Ahahaha, yes, they certainly gained a mark of infamy because of it.

2 minutes ago, joevar said:

not having iconic movesets is a sin. its like macross ship cant shoot its ultra big beam, G.Freedom cant use Meteor, Wing Zero cant shoot beam while spinning like a ballerina, Yamato cant shoot wave motion cannon, Mazinger cant breastfire, and so on.

So true.

SRW 30 would address those concerns with its returning series from T, at least. Like how the Ichinanas from Mazinger Infinity gained like one-two extra attacks in 30 compared to T.

2 minutes ago, joevar said:

pants-less marth is cool you know.  popular is not the issue. rather, just give him another sequel, and im sure going to be one of people who want to play it. but needless pandering?
come on,...

 

Again, it's an anniversary game, meant to celebrate the 30th Year of the franchise, even if it's only coming out now. So it's expected to have Marth there with some pandering. At least for Engage, it's justified. Awakening too. Beyond that... now that I can't really say for sure.

[joevar]

17 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

She has already done that with Castor, Navarre, and now Roger, and he wont be the last man she convinces to join. There are a lot of jokes about her being a siren.

does that mean Marth journey actually start because Caeda secretly recruit him?!

17 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Again, it's an anniversary game, meant to celebrate the 30th Year of the franchise, even if it's only coming out now. So it's expected to have Marth there with some pandering. At least for Engage, it's justified. Awakening too. Beyond that... now that I can't really say for sure.

aight. i will forgive it this time if theres pandering for Roy too

dang,.. and i just realize, i pick a meme that somehow correlates with current world event: a certain king just raise to power with same name, and same country with code geass.. what was the fate of my country again in the show.. ohh F*

[GuardianSing]

6 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

Ah Radd...he is a bit of a meme...

I'd use him for the bit but after dealing with Amelia, Forde, Neimi and Rennac for Sacred Stones I think I've had my fill of bad units.

10 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

Which reminds me, did you buy the extra Wing Spear from the shop in that chapter? or the extra Rapier?

Yes, just in time as both of those weapons were almost gone.

10 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

She has already done that with Castor, Navarre, and now Roger, and he wont be the last man she convinces to join. There are a lot of jokes about her being a siren.

It's cool to think of Caeda as a diplomat character who can convince those with doubt to think for themselves.

She's not exactly like that in Shadow Dragon but she's close.

 

[Acacia Sgt]

People like to meme about Kaga and women... but then forget the MVP OG Heroine.

Or more like, if he had done that, then why afterwards...

Edited October 1, 2022 by Acacia Sgt

[GuardianSing]

5 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

People like to meme about Kaga and women... but then forget the MVP OG Heroine.

Or more like, if he had done that, then why afterwards...

There's also Minerva so it must've been quite a downfall.

[ping]

30 minutes ago, Edelguardiansing said:

It's cool to think of Caeda as a diplomat character who can convince those with doubt to think for themselves.

She's not exactly like that in Shadow Dragon but she's close.

I personally read Shiida/Caeda as very deliberate in how she recruits people. Her clearly flirting with Roger without actually being interested makes me think that her demonstrative altruism to win over Castor and her making use of Nabarl's "I don't fight women" rule (she knows of him, so it's not a crazy assumption that she also knew about that) were done explicitly to push the respective recruitee's buttons.

Plus, my head canon wrt Roger is that she first eviscerated his comrades left and right with the Wing Spear before she, blood splatters all over her clothes, turns to him and gives him her "Do you believe in love?" line.

Edited October 1, 2022 by ping

[Sidereal Wraith]

3 hours ago, Edelguardiansing said:

 

 

Of course not, who would be foolish enough to do so?