General Weapon Refinery discussion/speculation/creation thread

[DLNarshen]

49 minutes ago, Zeo said:

Saddest thing about that is that even with all those boosts his stats aren't very impressive. Say he gets a much needed resplendent boost (for his art more than anything...)

At the very highest peak without field buffs he's sitting at 58/55/38/42/35. Mindboggling that +0 units today can rival a spread like that.

Still, healing for 13 per hit sounds incredibly fun and I hope to see that in action as well.

For now at least it's unique and gives him some sort of niche, which is certainly better than he had before.  In full agreement they could have gone a bit further without making people start to feel buyer's remorse with their grails.  I feel like +0 new units outperforming older +10s has become the new normal I'm afraid, and isn't just a problem for Narcian.  If tomorrow I were to pull the new fallen Julia, I could expect comparable or better performance in the same roles I use my +10 Julius for when unique weapons and skills are factored in.  In other words, they need to hurry up and get through the Gen I grail units already. 

45 minutes ago, Hilda said:

I think they should have included Iotes Shield into his Refine too, would have made him excellent

They're saving that for when they start giving older units unique skills once weapon refines inevitably slow down.  Delphi Shield - exclusive A passive that combines Iote's and DC.  Skillcreep will probably be in full force by then, so throw in Dull Range as well.  Let me believe.

[Hilda]

19 minutes ago, DLNarshen said:

They're saving that for when they start giving older units unique skills once weapon refines inevitably slow down.  Delphi Shield - exclusive A passive that combines Iote's and DC.  Skillcreep will probably be in full force by then, so throw in Dull Range as well.  Let me believe.

honey, we havent even finished Gen 1 and Gen 2 is allready heleplessly overthrown by the new Gen units. by the time we get to through Gen 2 refines, Gen 3 is gonna need their refines, because Gen 5 units will have like 5 effects on their weapons lol (dont get me started on Gen1 healers not even geting a personal refine...)

I mean come on just look at Fallen Julia vs Julius, Loptous is a joke compared to Dark Scripture lol

Res +3- Atk 6 attack on foes without dragon effectivness + take effective damage if they DO have
vs
Atk+3 - Atk 6/Res against foes without dragon effectivness and auto-follow up

lets not forget her increased BST and her exclusiv B-Skill. I mean is there a reason for Julius to even exist now?
This is what i hate about the insane powercreep lately. I get it they want us to spent money, but they are stomping all over the place literally invalidating older units.

Edited May 8, 2020 by Hilda

[Sunwoo]

Julius should probably get his weapon refined at some point too, although I think Lyon might need it more than he does.

Excluding Camus and Xander, because we don't know if/when DC weapons will get a refine, the oldest GHB units who don't have a personal weapon are Berkut, Clarisse, and Legion ... and it's kind of hilarious because technically their weapons are named after them but at that point those weapons were still inheritable. I really wonder if they'll get an actual personal refine.

[Hilda]

Just now, Sunwoo said:

Julius should probably get his weapon refined at some point too, although I think Lyon might need it more than he does.

Excluding Camus and Xander, because we don't know if/when DC weapons will get a refine, the oldest GHB units who don't have a personal weapon are Berkut, Clarisse, and Legion ... and it's kind of hilarious because technically their weapons are named after them but at that point those weapons were still inheritable. I really wonder if they'll get an actual personal refine.

By the rate they are going I am in doubt we get all GHB refines out of the way this year. They really need to speed up the process. 4 Units is just too little for refines, they need to increase it to 8 or 12 per update.

my +10 Arvis is waiting on his refine and on the moment Renewal 4 gets released that will totally powercreep his recovery ring...

[Sunwoo]

31 minutes ago, Hilda said:

By the rate they are going I am in doubt we get all GHB refines out of the way this year. They really need to speed up the process. 4 Units is just too little for refines, they need to increase it to 8 or 12 per update.

my +10 Arvis is waiting on his refine and on the moment Renewal 4 gets released that will totally powercreep his recovery ring...

Unfortunately, we probably won't yeah. IS really should just release more than one GHB/TT refine per round since they're not banner units and won't take up space on the New Power banner.

Putting out more than four units per round technically shouldn't hurt their bottom line that much anyway since none of the gen 1/gen 2 characters' refines make them more busted than whatever the fuck is being released nowadays anyway.

[Jotari]

11 hours ago, XRay said:

I just notice they cover all three primary colors too, which is pretty neat. They can also do Tactics since they are all different movement types.

So Murdock is going to be a colourless bow unit?

[XRay]

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

So Murdock is going to be a colourless bow unit?

I am hoping for staff cavalry that can support Zephiel and Narcian and can also Dance/Sing but does not heal a unit if the unit got a skill with an HP maximum condition so he can support Brunnya.

[Jotari]

35 minutes ago, XRay said:

I am hoping for staff cavalry that can support Zephiel and Narcian and can also Dance/Sing but does not heal a unit if the unit got a skill with an HP maximum condition so he can support Brunnya.

Ah yes. Valkyrie Mudock. That is exactly in line of my memory of that game.  I thought for a second he used axes, but then I realized I was being silly. Obviously Narcian was always the one who wielded axes.

[XRay]

2 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Ah yes. Valkyrie Mudock. That is exactly in line of my memory of that game.  I thought for a second he used axes, but then I realized I was being silly. Obviously Narcian was always the one who wielded axes.

Beneath all that manly armor is a Sailor Moon riding Celestia in disguise.

I guess he can be an armor unit to support Zephiel, but the team as a whole feels like it is lacking a bit of a dedicated support unit, and while Tactics still works, it does not feel right to leave out cavalry movement.

[Jingle Jangle]

Siegbert has a decent refine, able to have big stick damage on a horse. If only he wasn't a rare 5* when I could see more for him.

[Othin]

If they make Murdock an axe armor and then give Brunnya a colorless alt, it'll sort of work out. 

[Ice Dragon]

29 minutes ago, Othin said:

If they make Murdock an axe armor and then give Brunnya a colorless alt, it'll sort of work out. 

Clearly, Murdock will be a dagger armor. How else will he get to actually throw his Tomahawk?

[Kaden]

4 hours ago, Othin said:

Brunnya a colorless alt

Spring bunny healer Brunnya! Or rather Bunnya!

[SockPuppet]

I hope Setsuna is next. Poor girl is like the last book 1 colorless excluding staves without a refine, no?

[Othin]

46 minutes ago, SockPuppet said:

I hope Setsuna is next. Poor girl is like the last book 1 colorless excluding staves without a refine, no?

Huh. Now that you mention it, the only other one I can find is Clarisse.

[Ice Dragon]

@SockPuppet @Othin

List, in case anyone's interested:

Spoiler

Launch characters, no exclusive weapon:

Azura
Cecilia
Corrin (F)
Donnel
Draug
Effie
Fae
Nowi
Olivia
Setsuna
Sheena

Launch characters, exclusive weapon with no refine:

Hector (Armads)
Ryoma (Raijinto)

Book 1 post-launch characters, no exclusive weapon:

Ninian
Legion
Clarisse
Berkut
Arden

Book 1 post-launch characters, exclusive weapon with no refine:

Olwen (Dire Thunder)
Reinhardt (Dire Thunder)
Ike (Ragnell)
Xander (Siegfried)
Camus (Gradivus)
Valter (Cursed Lance)
Black Knight (Alondite)
Sigurd (Divine Tyrfing)
Arvis (Valflame)
Ayra (Ayra's Blade)
Dorcas (Stout Tomahawk)
Joshua (Audhumla)

 

[Othin]

15 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

@SockPuppet @Othin

List, in case anyone's interested:

  Hide contents

Launch characters, no exclusive weapon:

Azura
Cecilia
Corrin (F)
Donnel
Draug
Effie
Fae
Nowi
Olivia
Setsuna
Sheena

Launch characters, exclusive weapon with no refine:

Hector (Armads)
Ryoma (Raijinto)

Book 1 post-launch characters, no exclusive weapon:

Ninian
Legion
Clarisse
Berkut
Arden

Book 1 post-launch characters, exclusive weapon with no refine:

Olwen (Dire Thunder)
Reinhardt (Dire Thunder)
Ike (Ragnell)
Xander (Siegfried)
Camus (Gradivus)
Valter (Cursed Lance)
Black Knight (Alondite)
Sigurd (Divine Tyrfing)
Arvis (Valflame)
Ayra (Ayra's Blade)
Dorcas (Stout Tomahawk)
Joshua (Audhumla)

 

Ooh, that's useful. Breaking it down by color:

• Red:
  • Draug, Arden, and Olivia are the only ones without exclusive weapons, and Olivia could take longer if they're still not ready to do dancers.
  • Sigurd, Arvis, Ayra, and Joshua are the ones with non-DC exclusive weapons, while Ryoma, Ike, Xander, and BK have DC weapons.
• Blue:
  • Corrin F, Donnel, Effie, Nowi, Berkut, Azura, and Ninian are the ones without exclusive weapons, with Azura and Ninian also potentially having the dancer issue.
  • Valter and Olwen+Reinhardt have the non-DC exclusive weapons, while Camus has a DC weapon.
• Green:
  • Cecilia, Fae, Sheena, and Legion have no exclusive weapons.
  • Hector has the only non-DC exclusive weapon, while Dorcas has a DC weapon.
• Colorless:
  • Setsuna and Clarisse are missing exclusive weapons, and they're the only colorless units on this list at all.
  • If staffs ever join the party, that brings in Azama, Clarine, Elise, Lissa, Maria, Sakura, Serra, Wrys, Lachesis, Lucius, Priscilla, Mist, and Genny.

[SockPuppet]

Perfect list 🙂 thank you @Ice Dragon

—

crossing my fingers for Effie, Joshua and Setsuna next! 

[Fabulously Olivier]

Crossing my fingers for F Corrin, Sigurd, Cecilia, and Arvis to come next.

[FoxyGrandpa]

19 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

@SockPuppet @Othin

List, in case anyone's interested:

  Reveal hidden contents

Launch characters, no exclusive weapon:

Azura
Cecilia
Corrin (F)
Donnel
Draug
Effie
Fae
Nowi
Olivia
Setsuna
Sheena

Launch characters, exclusive weapon with no refine:

Hector (Armads)
Ryoma (Raijinto)

Book 1 post-launch characters, no exclusive weapon:

Ninian
Legion
Clarisse
Berkut
Arden

Book 1 post-launch characters, exclusive weapon with no refine:

Olwen (Dire Thunder)
Reinhardt (Dire Thunder)
Ike (Ragnell)
Xander (Siegfried)
Camus (Gradivus)
Valter (Cursed Lance)
Black Knight (Alondite)
Sigurd (Divine Tyrfing)
Arvis (Valflame)
Ayra (Ayra's Blade)
Dorcas (Stout Tomahawk)
Joshua (Audhumla)

 

Thanks for making this!

Arvis could probably work fine with a copy-paste of Lute's weapon refine, but I'm crossing my finger's that his refine effect will just give him Fury 4. Would help him ploy better and would work nicely with his prf B-Skill.

I could see Ayra getting a broken refine given Larcei's existence. Changing the weapon's base effect from flashing blade to accelerating special cooldown and making her refine effect give her either innate wrath or Repel could give her an edge over Larcei. 

[Othin]

On 5/8/2020 at 7:46 PM, Othin said:

Ooh, that's useful. Breaking it down by color:

• Red:
  • Draug, Arden, and Olivia are the only ones without exclusive weapons, and Olivia could take longer if they're still not ready to do dancers.
  • Sigurd, Arvis, Ayra, and Joshua are the ones with non-DC exclusive weapons, while Ryoma, Ike, Xander, and BK have DC weapons.
• Blue:
  • Corrin F, Donnel, Effie, Nowi, Berkut, Azura, and Ninian are the ones without exclusive weapons, with Azura and Ninian also potentially having the dancer issue.
  • Valter and Olwen+Reinhardt have the non-DC exclusive weapons, while Camus has a DC weapon.
• Green:
  • Cecilia, Fae, Sheena, and Legion have no exclusive weapons.
  • Hector has the only non-DC exclusive weapon, while Dorcas has a DC weapon.
• Colorless:
  • Setsuna and Clarisse are missing exclusive weapons, and they're the only colorless units on this list at all.
  • If staffs ever join the party, that brings in Azama, Clarine, Elise, Lissa, Maria, Sakura, Serra, Wrys, Lachesis, Lucius, Priscilla, Mist, and Genny.

Looking at the overall numbers, if we exclude the DC weapons and the staffs, that's 24 units. So if we expect them to keep doing 3 per month, that's 8 months to either wrap up that lineup, start doing DC/staffs, or change the pattern.

There's 6 DC weapons and 13 staffs, so they could stretch it out by another ~6 months with those.

[SuperNova125]

There is only one weapon refine I want and that's Fae, I technically have a DC ready for action as well if the weapon doesn't have in built DC (which it won't). Though I doubt she is coming anytime soon.

[Hilda]

15 hours ago, SuperNova125 said:

There is only one weapon refine I want and that's Fae, I technically have a DC ready for action as well if the weapon doesn't have in built DC (which it won't). Though I doubt she is coming anytime soon.

wouldnt be so sure about that, there have been a handfull of green dragons released, so she getting a refine might be more possible/plausible now

[SuperNova125]

3 hours ago, Hilda said:

wouldnt be so sure about that, there have been a handfull of green dragons released, so she getting a refine might be more possible/plausible now

Now that I think about it, we have green dragons like Winter Sothis, Refined Kana and Nagi and outside of green as well competition is really though. Someone like Cordelia who despite the competition still is one the best in her class got one that was not that necessary, many people in my friend list who had Cordelia as their representative ever since the refine came still used Slaying and Firesweep. Fae and Nowi could use one. 

I would like something similar to Kana's or Gnwendolyn's weapons. 

[XRay]

14 hours ago, SuperNova125 said:

Now that I think about it, we have green dragons like Winter Sothis, Refined Kana and Nagi and outside of green as well competition is really though. Someone like Cordelia who despite the competition still is one the best in her class got one that was not that necessary, many people in my friend list who had Cordelia as their representative ever since the refine came still used Slaying and Firesweep. Fae and Nowi could use one. 

I would like something similar to Kana's or Gnwendolyn's weapons. 

Cordelia's exclusive Weapon with special Refine is only really good on a slow Brave build. It does not synergize well with Desperation since there is only a small HP range where both will work, and it does not work with Wings of Mercy Dancers/Singers. You could go for a fast Brave build for damage output using Spd Refine so it synergizes with Desperation and Wings of Mercy, but I think most players rather use ranged units for damage output instead.

Melee nukes' niche over ranged nukes is their ability to Galeforce, and Slaying Lance is better than Cordelia's Lance for that purpose.

Firesweep melee fliers feels almost like using ranged units, and it is pretty decent on a map with lots of obstacles and land enemies, although it is less powerful if there are not as many obstacles or if the enemies are mostly fliers. I still rather use Firesweep Bow, but for players on a budget, Firesweep L is so much cheaper.