General Weapon Refinery discussion/speculation/creation thread

[Kaden]

Late replies.

On 5/9/2019 at 11:15 PM, Corrobin said:

I think a +6 buff to everything when Subaki has full HP at the start of combat could work for a weapon.

That could work, but it would also be very extreme since the Push skills only grant +5 to two stats and cause 1 HP recoil damage if the unit attacks: "At start of combat, if unit's HP = 100%, grants Stat A/Stat B+3, but if unit attacked, deals 1 damage to unit after combat." It would also be way better than Beloved Zofia's Spectrum Push: "At start of combat, if unit's HP = 100%, grants Atk/Spd/Def/Res+4, but after combat, if unit attacked, deals 4 damage to unit", especially if there's no recoil damage which does not matter if Subaki, witch Celica, or anyone using a Push Skill can't avoid taking damage. Regardless, Spectrum Push works and so would Def/Res Push if you want it to be closer to Perfectionist's effects being defensive buffs to Subaki.

On 5/9/2019 at 11:40 PM, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

Skill = crit = proc

 

Wo Dao Effect or huge damage boost during special works

Yeah, forgot what skill did in Fire Emblem. When I wrote the post, I was thinking of Golden Dagger's unique refinement effect, but Subaki being a flier means he doesn't really have as reliable ways to keep a special charged like Saber. Or something else like if Subaki's special cooldown is lower than his opponent's, he gets some kind of bonus.

I mean, they could just go ham and do this for him:

Subaki's Pike: "16 Mt. Accelerates Special trigger (cooldown count-1). If Special triggers before or during combat, grants Special cooldown count-2 after combat. At start of combat, if Special is ready, grants Atk/Spd+6 and deals +5 damage per unit's attack."

And suddenly, Subaki became very stupid. It won't happen, but Special Spiral and a special is ready effect could work and be pretty unique for Subaki.

On 5/11/2019 at 9:07 AM, Etheus said:

Subaki:

If unit's hp = 100% at start of combat, unit attacks twice (dual phase). Unit takes 1 damage after combat.

Meanwhile in a far distant land, the sounds of lions crying can be heard. ?

Edited May 31, 2019 by Kaden

[Stroud]

15 hours ago, colossus86 said:

Julius having what passes for Gen 2 bst for an infantry mage and IS never refining +stat weapons (since they consider it a full effect) make this rather unlikely. Although I agree in light of Tharja and the Adrift Tomes Loptous isn't in the best place.

Forgot about the +3 Res. Dang, I guess he will have to wait for his maybe Mythic Hero alt. xD Which is ok, Loptous just looks so underwhelming. Even more now. I mean they can't have all in mind in past days. Some units just get whooped.

About Camus I already accepted that it will take a while for him to get  a refine and just gave him a different build. I just think he goes better with an offensive approach and his stats are just not working too well with DC: He is bound to get 1 or 2 Alts which I find justified in this case anyway. 

[Humanoid]

Oscaaaaaaaar! It better be at least as good as Abel's, I may like Oscar but if Abel is objectively the better pick then there's not much I could do. Hopefully Sully keeping her TA effect on her Prf gives them freedom to design Oscar's without the effect (like how Hinata dodged that fate), but I'm not holding my breath.

Otherwise I might wait for Cordelia/Subaki I guess. Ruled out Catria/Est because I'm finding the effect a little too hard to use.

 

P.S. Am I just being paranoid when I think the news item only mentioning refines means there'll be literally nothing in June's update besides refines?

[redlight]

Felicia was our last dagger unit to receive a refine.

If they translate the weapons into Heroes then Saizo's will be similar to Peshkatz and Grima's Truth. It also gave a passive speed buff

Kagero's Dart seemed to be a joke weapon in Fates, but it did have an avoid boost. Maybe firesweep+infantry effectiveness. 

I've never been a fan of gem+tactics prfs, but Oscar should never get that treatment because his stats are good enough to run things like firesweep. 

Edited June 3, 2019 by redlight

[Michelaar]

10 minutes ago, Humanoid said:

 

P.S. Am I just being paranoid when I think the news item only mentioning refines means there'll be literally nothing in June's update besides refines?

What this means is that usually a feh channel is not far off.

[MilodicMellodi]

I'm super hyped about Kagero. IS finally decided to give her a refine ?
Looks like Infantry has started to become an actual threat again to the point where Kagero can get a refine without killing half the game off (also Naga is kind of a big deal right now).

I do kind of want for her to have a Sweep effect, but she does already have Daggerbreaker which makes it sort of a moot point (like true, not all infantry uses daggers, but it becomes a lot less useful against Infantry dagger users unless the Sweep effect is more like Firesweep and not like Wind/Watersweep).
If I'm being realistic here, I think IS is probably going to treat Kagero's Dart like Bartre's Axe of Virility; they'll make the non-refine simply have a Might buff, and the refine will have some generic effect (like AoV has Fury 3). Best-case, Solo Atk/Spd 3 or even Atk/Spd Link 3...worst-case, probably some Res-based passive (since she has Warding Blow in her original kit).

EDIT: I just realized I literally just foddered off my Elincia for her Flier Formation and Ardent Sacrifice because I had so little use for her...and now I'm going to miss out on her refine...oh well.

Edited June 3, 2019 by MilodicMellodi

[daisy jane]

man if i had known that in six months elincia would have so many banners....

i already have her (bless). but now the question do i stuff merges into her. i am really intrigued what she'd have as a refine. she's already so good.

[Thane]

Heck yeah, Kagerou! I've got a +9 of her so this is fun news for me; hell I've barely used her despite the merges. I'm hoping for something that is definitely better than the Ouch Pouch. 

Too bad F!Corrin didn't get a refine but I guess she wouldn't be able to compete with other dragons anyway. 

[NegativeExponents-]

Oh I’m excited for Saizo and Kagero. Not really sure what to expect for either but as far as Kagero goes, a refinable 14 mt infantry effective weapon already seems fail proof (assuming she keeps the poison dagger effect)

I wanna be excited for Oscar but I just remembered he has a gem weapon and so he’s probably screwed but I’m really hoping this is the time tradition gets broken and his prf doesn’t end up having the gem effect.

Edit: @redlight even though Kagero’s dart starts off with 1 mt, I don’t know if I’d go calling it a joke weapon. That evasion boost saves lives on top of being one of the only non-iron weapons to let you use skills and criticals without any heavy drawbacks.

Edited June 3, 2019 by NegativeExponents-

[redlight]

13 minutes ago, NegativeExponents- said:

Edit: @redlight even though Kagero’s dart starts off with 1 mt, I don’t know if I’d go calling it a joke weapon. That evasion boost saves lives on top of being one of the only non-iron weapons to let you use skills and criticals without any heavy drawbacks.

Fair enough

At this rate it'll take another year to finish off gen 1. That includes f2p units

[Stroud]

Still no Selena or Athena. But Kagerou. I have enough to merge her to +10. But not a attack + one. Well at least speed+. This might do it for now. I will start with +1 her. 

[Hilda]

2 hours ago, Stroud said:

Still no Selena or Athena. But Kagerou. I have enough to merge her to +10. But not a attack + one. Well at least speed+. This might do it for now. I will start with +1 her. 

my +10 Kagero and Saizo are ready. What I am hoping for:

Saizo : same as smoke but with adjusted dmg (targeting lower def or res) and added special refine special charge when initiating on foes that use bow daggers sword and lance. Basicly almost the reverse of Felicia

Kagero:

eff against infantry

swift spartow

special refine: Desperation

[Diovani Bressan]

I know  that it will not happens, but:

Saizo's Star: Smoke Dagger + Penalty Doubler

Penalty Doubler: Inflict penalty to foe's Atk/Spd/Def/Res during combat = current penalty on target's and foes's stats within 2 spaces. Calculates each stat penalty independently.

[Jingle Jangle]

ooooo Saizo and Kagero are getting a refine this time. I hope it's something to improve their offensive power both are lacking in that department. Elincia wants to hit harder too. The increased bulk these day makes it harder for her. My +3 Elincia would love it.

[Fabulously Olivier]

Happy to see Oscar and Saizo get refines.

[Stroud]

1 hour ago, Hilda said:

my +10 Kagero and Saizo are ready. What I am hoping for:

Saizo : same as smoke but with adjusted dmg (targeting lower def or res) and added special refine special charge when initiating on foes that use bow daggers sword and lance. Basicly almost the reverse of Felicia

Kagero:

eff against infantry

swift spartow

special refine: Desperation

Kagero sounds nice, I can imagine her getting this playerphase setup, this would also allow her running Desperation along with Null-Follow-Up or some Dull skill. we will see... something which helps her getting a mixed phase build would be also ok.

For Saizo I can imagine him getting something which makes use of his def bulk. And he needs something to kill easier...

Oscar gives me a headache. His stats would help him being a solid Galeforece user with the right refine, but I fear he will follow the footsteps of Titania and Seth being the guy with TA and Tactics. 

Elincia will profit anyway. xD 

[Fabulously Olivier]

3 minutes ago, Stroud said:

Oscar gives me a headache. His stats would help him being a solid Galeforece user with the right refine, but I fear he will follow the footsteps of Titania and Seth being the guy with TA and Tactics. 

Oh god. That would be the worst. He needs a firesweep or slaying lance as a base weapon.

 

I'm kind of hoping that if we get a tactics lance cav, it will be Jeigan. It's not like there is any saving him anyway, and thus far all of the TA tactics cavalry have been Jeigans.

[Stroud]

25 minutes ago, Etheus said:

Oh god. That would be the worst. He needs a firesweep or slaying lance as a base weapon.

 

I'm kind of hoping that if we get a tactics lance cav, it will be Jeigan. It's not like there is any saving him anyway, and thus far all of the TA tactics cavalry have been Jeigans.

Yeah, I think the same. 

And @mampfoid, mentioned it in the other thread, he likes to use Oscar with Galeforce. And it was also my impression about Oscar. Some fine Firesweep/Slaying Lance, just something which pushes him on the player phase would be nice. He's got the stats to sweep through the enemy ranges. 

As for Jeigan yeah..how they ever want to push him is a riddle. xD Well let us hope they make some different decisions here..

[mampfoid]

1 hour ago, Stroud said:

And @mampfoid, mentioned it in the other thread, he likes to use Oscar with Galeforce. And it was also my impression about Oscar. Some fine Firesweep/Slaying Lance, just something which pushes him on the player phase would be nice. He's got the stats to sweep through the enemy ranges. 

Yup, that would be nice. Something that reduces CD or increases his ATK/SPD. 

Or a gimmicky beaming effect, I love those. 

3 hours ago, Diovani Bressan said:

Saizo's Star: Smoke Dagger + Penalty Doubler

That would be fun. Or an effect like Hrids sword: A breaker against debuffed foes. 

[Anacybele]

YAY Oscar and Elincia! Right after I'd just given my Oscar +Spd and completed his Firesweep build. XD

But I also hope he doesn't simply get TA/tactics like Titania/Seth. He'd be better off with something that makes use of his high Spd and very solid Atk. Besides, those other two are Jagens, Oscar's a Christmas cav that sadly still lacks his other half there.

Oscar's been in the game for about two years and is getting a refine and Kieran STILL isn't in the game in any form. Come on IS. ?

[GrandeRampel]

2 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Oscar's been in the game for about two years and is getting a refine and Kieran STILL isn't in the game in any form. Come on IS. ?

The absence of Kieran is a pity, but seeing as other games still lack even one of their Christmas cavaliers I made peace with the fact they don't comsider it a priority to finish off their most famous archetypes (we don't have all the Chirstmas cavaliers, but we also don't have all the Jeigans, all the Camuses or all the Ests).

The fact that Oscar still doesn't have his brother Boyd I consider a way bigger deal. We have even Greil in the game, which means the only character from the prologue of PoR we don't have is Boyd. I don't know what's IS problem with him, it seems such a logical choice for a banner.

 

 

Anyway, I'm hyped for Kagero and Saizo since I have and use both of them.

[Anacybele]

3 minutes ago, GrandeRampel said:

The absence of Kieran is a pity, but seeing as other games still lack even one of their Christmas cavaliers I made peace with the fact they don't comsider it a priority to finish off their most famous archetypes (we don't have all the Chirstmas cavaliers, but we also don't have all the Jeigans, all the Camuses or all the Ests).

The fact that Oscar still doesn't have his brother Boyd I consider a way bigger deal. We have even Greil in the game, which means the only character from the prologue of PoR we don't have is Boyd. I don't know what's IS problem with him, it seems such a logical choice for a banner.

 

 

Anyway, I'm hyped for Kagero and Saizo since I have and use both of them.

That is true, pre-Tellius games not in Archanea do all lack their Christmas cavs entirely, but I consider that just as much of an issue, honestly. And Sain is actually fairly popular and kinda highly requested, I think. I want him a lot too, he's my favorite besides Kieran out of those guys.

And YES. Oscar needs his brothers too! Heck, they can even actually have a banner all their own if it's Boyd, Rolf, and an Oscar alt. I don't really approve of non-seasonal/legendary alts, but I would let this one be an exception simply because we've had 3-character banners and the Greil Merc brothers number exactly three. And they're just the best siblings ever. ?

Edited June 3, 2019 by Anacybele

[Fabulously Olivier]

8 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

That is true, pre-Tellius games not in Archanea do all lack their Christmas cavs entirely, but I consider that just as much of an issue, honestly. And Sain is actually fairly popular and kinda highly requested, I think. I want him a lot too, he's my favorite besides Kieran out of those guys.

And YES. Oscar needs his brothers too! Heck, they can even actually have a banner all their own if it's Boyd, Rolf, and an Oscar alt. I don't really approve of non-seasonal/legendary alts, but I would let this one be an exception simply because we've had 3-character banners and the Greil Merc brothers number exactly three. And they're just the best siblings ever. ?

And the lack of other social knights bothers me as well because I'm such a huge fan of Forde.

[Xenomata]

Welp, so much for Poison Dagger+ refine.

Saizo's Star was a weapon that lowered the targets Str, Def, and Res by -4 and also triggered Rally Strength after combat. His Personal Skill, which by the way is not that great for the risk it took to trigger it, lowered the HP of himself and enemies within 2 spaces after combat if Saizo entered HP less than 50%.
I can imagine him getting the Smoke Dagger+ refine as the base effect, maybe also getting a modified version of the Peshkats effect that doesn't affect Speed. As for the refine, probably some sort of post-damage effect. Hopefully, if they do go that route, it's not as terrible as Pyrotechnics...

Kagero's Dart is one of the weakest Shuriken in Fates, but I don't see it as a joke weapon like Chopsticks, largely because of the hefty Skill debuff it had alongside the Avoid boost. Her personal skill reflected  half the damage of Knives and Shuriken back at the attacker, as well as the debuffs.
Unfortunately, I don't see any of the above translating well to Heroes, besides maybe the Skill debuff translating to the recently added Pulse Smoke along with Guard? Kagero isn't a defensive unit, so I can't imagine them trying to translate her superiority against other Daggers to Heroes all that well, if at all...

Oscar... well I know jack crap about him, besides how utterly... ordinary he looks. I dunno, maybe he'll get +2 all stats as part of his kit.

Elincia... oh boy, the original Speedy Brave Sword. I dunno what they'll give her, but either way she can become even faster with Amiti than ever before. Oh boy, didn't even give my +10 Elincia a chance to gather dust before giving her life...

[Stroud]

4 minutes ago, Etheus said:

And the lack of other social knights bothers me as well because I'm such a huge fan of Forde

Only in a double pack with Vanessa please. I mean Vanessa must wake Forde up so he does not oversleep his next banner. 

Their support is actually one of the better ones I ever saw. xD

Spoiler

C Support

Vanessa: What's that down there?! Whoa, Titania! Whoa, girl! Let's stop here! Are you hurt?! Are you all right?!
Forde: Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...
Vanessa: Huh?
Forde: Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...
Vanessa: You have GOT to be kidding me! Sleeping while a war is waging? Bold warrior, it's time to wake up! Hey! Lazybones! Get up!
Forde: Snargleblagh...hmph? Zzzzzzzzz...
Vanessa: Oh, boy... Let's go, Titania. It's clear that Mr. Slug here needs his beauty rest.
Forde: Zzzzz... Huh? Did someone say something?

B Support

Vanessa: Oh, look who's actually awake today.
Forde: You must be one of Frelia's pegasus knights.
Vanessa: I'm Vanessa.
Forde: Yeah, that's right. Vanessa. I'm Forde. Nice to meet you. By the way, what do you mean by me being awake?
Vanessa: Just the other day, I was flying by and saw you lying on the ground. I thought you were hurt, but when I got closer, I saw that you were just sleeping! I couldn't believe my eyes. I was so disgusted that I just left you there. But then I started to worry about enemies spotting you, so I went back. By the time I got back to where you were, you were already gone.
Forde: I catch them off guard that way and then attack. That's my strategy.
Vanessa: I seriously doubt that.
Forde: Ha ha ha! But anyway, thanks for your concern.
Vanessa: You really don't stress or plan much, do you? So different from our prince...
Forde: The prince of Frelia? Ah, you mean Prince Innes. I think he's almost 100 percent stress. But I'm sure he's quite the ladies' man. I bet you have a crush on him, too. You're blushing, so I must have hit a nerve!
Vanessa: I-I don't! I didn't say anything!
Forde: A romance between a prince and his knight? What scandal! What intrigue! It's all right, though. You can love anyone you like. You must have lots of competition, seeing how he is a prince. It's much easier to date someone you can be yourself around. Someone like, say, me would be ideal for you. What do you say?
Vanessa: Um... Let's go, Titania. We've wasted enough time here.
Forde: You don't have to run away like that! OK, see you! Watch out for those archers!

A Support

Vanessa: I think I misunderstood you.
Forde: Yeah? So you understand me now?
Vanessa: I guess so. You've been working for me from behind-the-scenes, haven't you.
Forde: Yes. But don't worry. I'm used to that sort of misunderstanding.
Vanessa: Well...thank you.
Forde: Heh heh heh. You're welcome, of course. So, how about all that other stuff?
Vanessa: What do you mean?
Forde: Am I too far a cry from a prince?
Vanessa: Um...
Forde: I felt an energy...
Vanessa: Energy? What are you talking about?
Forde: Everyone has a different type of energy. Some energies can heal hearts, others spread courage. When you first saw me sleeping, I was dreaming of running across a field. I felt this warm energy engulfing me, blowing across my face like a summer wind. It must have been your energy that made me feel that way.
Vanessa: My...energy?
Forde: Would you like to feel my energy, too?
Vanessa:' Um... I'll certainly think about it.
Forde: Wonderful! I'll be waiting for your answer, Vanessa.

 

Edited June 3, 2019 by Stroud