Alice in Brexitland Mafia - Game Over

[Shinori]

3 minutes ago, BBM said:

I haven't sheeped refa in any place except on omega. it's definitely not a pattern. there have been times where we've had similar opinions, like both of us voting you, but I voted you like 2 minutes after he voted you. the post was in progress before he said anything but you can decide for yourself if I could have made that post in two minutes after seeing refa's post

the rest of eury's reads in the big wallpost don't impress me very much. it's just a lot of "null leaning ___" and even the only actual strong scumread feels very surface-level, like "hey he's not really explaining much must be SCUM". also, if she didn't give any vote priorities or alignment summary at the end, I would think that she would still be voting me on the fencesitting and the sheeping and whatnot. that being said i don't agree with prims that this seems motivated as a counterwagon vote bc she also mentioned prims high up in her prio list and I think prims would have made more sense as a counterwagon vote. i think she's just voting omega bc she got lots of bad flak for the vote against me.

also her defence that she found me less suspicious than Refa is disingenuous. she did vote me over Refa cuz Refa already had a lot of pressure at the time, but she found us both equally suspicious, marked by the = sign.

1: You did sheep refa quite a bit in the earlier parts of this day phase.  Or at least it appears so, especially WRT Eury.  I thought it was weird but kind of shrugged it off but you denying it makes it stand out to me.  About the time Eury started posting Refa posted a bunch of stuff and you followed up posting a fair amount of stuff along the same lines seemingly parroting him, maybe I misunderstood or I'm not remembering properly but I know I made a note feeling that there was a weird association between you and Refa.  I could also be biased though because I'm scum reading Refa and anything he does is standing out to me at the moment.

2: Why does Scum!Eury vote Omega of all people instead of push Prims since she supposedly hadn't seen the claim?  Alternatively why doesn't she just push Bard considering Bard has a lot more pressure behind him than Omega?  I'm the strongest push, and quite possibly the only real person pushing, for an Omega lynch and yet she follows up on that instead of pushing a Bard lynch that has a lot more overall support behind it.  Also bolded part doesn't really matter because it doesn't make sense.  Even if she didn't give vote priority or alignment reads at that time she still had an unvote and a vote on a different target.

3: This part is also slightly wrong?  People will generally put whoever they find most scummy first and then move to others.  Just because there is an equal sign doesn't entirely mean that both people are 100% equal.  It should mean that or at least they are close enough that the difference doesn't matter much but I think this is probably nitpicky so it doesn't matter too much.  Overall I don't really think you can read into an equal sign over what the person actually types out.  Like if they type out "I'd rather lynch A over B for these reasons but I'm gonna vote B because A already has plenty of votes on them"  And then show an equal sign, I'd still take it as them seeing Person A as more suspicious.  I actually remember being slightly confused at their BBM vote because I hadn't read the paragraph before hand stating why they didn't vote Refa who was listed first in their priorities but shrugged it off because of the equal sign.

[Snike]

Spoiler

Eury, this might be a weird question, but when you're talking BBM in your wall, are you saying that it's because multiple players were misreading at the same time and that's why the 'misread' stuff is suspicious?

I want to talk about word choice (WC) and  the punctuation thing that confused since that's a lot of the stuff I have on Eury and it appears to be a confusing point.

When I say strong word choice, , I mean that the way the words on the page are arranged lends it to a certain emotion or tone that's almost judgemental or tonally

Like, for example, take these two sentences:

The man broke the window frame.

The man smashed the flimsy window frame to bits.

I'd argue the second sentence is more exciting, and more loaded, because of the word choice.

Going back to context, this is why I targeted the garbage wordchoice because I feel like it was an over the top thing to say about something on the first to second page of the game.

On the second bit, ( this is in reference to the bolded paragraph at the end of my box) I was pointing at the second half of your post on page 7, where you were talking about the shinori 'defense' stuff, and trying to clarify why ??? was emotionally loaded.  Which it is, when attached to a sentence and not just in its own space. IE,

Weapons Voting to leave the EU was ???. ??? is a substitute for incomprehensible in this case.

VS

Why did you vote to leave the EU??? Expresses extreme confusion and a degree of anger, and that's what I was reading on page 7.

Semantics yes, but I'm an English major. Semantics are my life.

So with those in mind, it goes back to why use those words and punctuations/ why get emotional about those two issues?

Above is Eurystuff. Abandon all hope, ye who enter.

Aside: I don''t think the initial lynch order by Eury  was that unclear. Those people who were equated to everyone else were noticeable, I think is what the point of them being mentioned.

On Omega: I think part of what's baffling me in this case is the vote on me. He probably thought I was acting scummy but I don't think there's been a real explanation for it? The reason it's problematic is because I don't think it necessarily fits the pattern of opportunistic voting that I found scummy.

On Bard: I think this is a GoodLynch if  the Eury Wagon gets derailed and I'm not convinced by the Omega case.

I'm going on my phone. Keeping vote on Eury for now.

 

[Snike]

I forgot: I guess I'm reading null on arcanite right now but it's more nullscum than nulltown. They have words it's just they're not making me feel anything but meh, which bothers me a bit. I think the other wagons are better today.

[Shinori]

Ugh, I want to post more Omega stuff but I feel I've posted most of the case already and I'm starting to get demotivated by all the people not interested in lynching him when he's my biggest scum read.  Might also be that I'm just tired.  This is frustrating.  Especially since it feels like some people agree with me while others don't but even with the people that agree with me they just have other priorities.

I'll see if I can get this post out tonight about omega.

[SB.]

I need a sub for Walrein. Please contact me if you’d like the spot.

[SB.]

Day 1.10 - Votals
Eurykins (5): Refa, BBM, Snike, Prims
Bard (3): Weapons, Omega, Via
Omega (3): Shinori, Eurykins, Arcanite
Prims (1): Walrein
Shinori (1): Bard

Not Voting: Rapier

You have ~13.5 hours left in the day.  With 13 alive, it takes 5 to lynch and 9 to hammer.

Edited March 7, 2018 by SB.

[BBM]

= literally means EQUALS. if she found me Refa slightly more scummy than me she should have used a >. it's fair for her to use the fact that refa had a wagon on him as a reason for why she voted me over him, but it's super disingenuous to say "no actually I wasn't really scumreading BBM that much" when people focus on her case on me. not to mention that even if she DID find Refa more suspicious than me and had clearly indicated that, she still pursued the case on me and the majority of her content between her first ISO wallpost and her second ISO wallpost was regarding me. so what else are people supposed to focus on?

i suppose if you weren't in the thread at the time and are just reading the thread hours later and not paying attention to the time stamps it's fair to think I was sheeping Refa on the Eury vote so I'll take that back.

but regardless I just feel like eury's posts are super padded with questions to which the answers are very obvious. it also doesn't really feel like she follows up on her questions except to the people she's directly scumreading so I'm not really sure how they're helping her read others.

i'm also okay with lynching bard but I think his lynch will give significantly fewer interactions than eury's.

[Eurykins]

Well, I have to head to bed, as I have work tomorrow morning and will not be able to get back home for phase end. 

I am a Cycle 4 Doc. On Day 4 I can protect target someone and protect them from all attempts on their life until the end of Day 4 and for Night 4.

Looking at the thread, it seems that Omega is not a wagon that is being fully considered for consolidation. If that is the case, and given the fact that most people seem to be doing an either "Eury or Bard" lynch, I will be adjusting my vote accordingly for the consolidation. I will not state that I personally have a massive case or anything against him, as I didn't have much issues with him in his fewer earlier posts, but if it's him or me, then the answer is simple.

##Unvote

##Vote: Bard

[Eurykins]

*My claim is part of the reason why I became apprehensive/doubtful of BBM's claim. Either he actually has the information, or gut instinct leans towards him having such knowledge/source of killing power to suggest day kills, which is something I did not like at all.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

Can I sub for Walrein

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

@Shinori, I read your first Omega case, and it does make me more suspicious of Omega, but not in front of Bard imo. The WIFOM thing is a good point, and I thought it was weird that he was reading ITP at all (and that whole paragraph didn't make sense), but those were the only two things that stood out, and there were a lot of other Omega posts you didn't go over. Granted I haven't read the response/rebuttal, but mafia's hard. Like the vig Prims thing and coin flip I feel are consistent with his meta, and also things I could see myself having said at some point.

@Eurykins, that's interesting

[BBM]

uhhhhh lmao Eury you realize that your roleclaim gives the exact same information that I was providing right? I don't understand why you were talking about how I was BSing when your role also tells you that there are daykills in the game.

[BBM]

I guess I should admit that I am also a Cycle X Doc (not going to say what cycle). I didn't realize that multiple of this type of role might exist so I claimed informed townie because I thought town would want to know that daykills existed, and I figured the claim would be a good way to put me low on the prio list for scumkills.

i don't think this makes it more likely or less likely that eury is scum; going to say null. my gut is that this role or this claim have been given to more people than just me and eury and at least one those is fake.

I figured I might as well claim properly now though so people realized the full setup implications and also so there would be no weird discussions about my role vs eury's. this confirms if there are multiple cycle doc claims that the daykill is not 1x and is probably factional. guessing that we have a daykilling ITP and a bunch of cycle docs that can block either the ITP in the day or the mafia in the night, and we don't have a full-time doc.

other cycle docs shouldn't claim at this point; I don't think it adds any value.

[BBM]

multiball with a day-killing scumteam and a night-killing scumteam is also possible if all the other roles are also based around this cycle premise rather than being locked to the night.

[Shinori]

16 minutes ago, Eurykins said:

*My claim is part of the reason why I became apprehensive/doubtful of BBM's claim. Either he actually has the information, or gut instinct leans towards him having such knowledge/source of killing power to suggest day kills, which is something I did not like at all.

1 minute ago, BBM said:

uhhhhh lmao Eury you realize that your roleclaim gives the exact same information that I was providing right? I don't understand why you were talking about how I was BSing when your role also tells you that there are daykills in the game.

Read italicized and bolded.  I feel that's different than what you are saying.  I don't quite remember what she said exactly WRT you in the earlier phases of the game but I thought she just said she didn't trust or like your claim?  Not that she didn't believe the info that was put forward.  Italicized implies that she felt you are telling the truth, Bolded implies that she feels you are telling the truth but more or less because she feels you are the reason for the day killing ability I think.

Face value that role is weird and one can make multiple guesses about it and setup stuff.  I still would prefer to not lynch Eury.  I'd also still much rather lynch Omega > Bard.  I'm very tired though so I might try to get up early-ish tomorrow to re-state my Omega case and maybe we can swap to vote Omega in a non-turbo fashion?  I feel there is plenty of substantial reasoning for my vote and standing on him.

However if there are multiple 'cycle' docs then it would make Prim's role town-sided and make a little more sense?  Alternatively if a full doc ends up claiming then we lynch Eury I feel no questions asked.  Guess I'll wait until tomorrow.

31 minutes ago, BBM said:

but regardless I just feel like eury's posts are super padded with questions to which the answers are very obvious. it also doesn't really feel like she follows up on her questions except to the people she's directly scumreading so I'm not really sure how they're helping her read others.

I do understand the thought process behind it and I can slightly agree on it.  I don't think all of the questions have exactly obvious answers but some of the questions she asked were already answered to an extent.  That could just be lazy play though.

 

12 minutes ago, WeaponsofMassConstruction said:

and there were a lot of other Omega posts you didn't go over.

I don't think I missed that many Omega posts?  Outside of some that were made before the first one I quoted.  I'll try to make an attempt to find any of them tomorrow morning.  Were there any Omega posts that stood out to you that make him more townie looking than scum looking?  What stands out about his play that makes him BETTER than lynching Bard which gives less overall info and associative reads?

 

Cut by BBM claim.  Agree no one else should claim if they are cycle docs unless they are counter claiming Eury I think.

[BBM]

if someone else had been the one to make the claim that "oh I know there's a daykiller but I don't know anything else" I would have thought they were also another cycle doc bc it would have made my role make more sense. but i guess it's possible that she read my claim and assumed I was the daykiller and was using it as a convenient fake?

##Unvote, ##Vote: Bard

eury's play regarding me is still annoying BUT I can see how a confluence of my claim + paranoia + my misreading could have caused her to immediately have a bad view of me.

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

9 hours ago, Shinori said:

I don't think that's a valid reason to really townread refa.

I'm townreading him, boy-o.

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

9 hours ago, Shinori said:

Would lynch prims. Okay.

Says Refa opposing the Prims wagon is townie.  Sure not just bandwagoning is good but why is him specifically opposing the wagon good?  I don't get that reasoning.  Especially since you have wanted to lynch Prims most of the day, if you feel Prims is scum you must feel he has buddies, if he has buddies wouldn't buddies want to oppose the wagon?

And I don't think most people want to lynch Walrein because he hasn't really done anything.  It wouldn't really give any information or associative reads so him stating that fact isn't really grounds for hard town reading him imo.

I found it to be a good sign that Refa opposed the Prims wagon for 2 reasons.

1. As scum, he could just shit on Prims or do nothing. Prims is a good player, and I doubt they're scum together, so Refa's taking a good play off the table.

2. He also used my involvement in the Prims wagon to suspect me. This is what I'd expect a town!Refa to do considering he's caught me as scum before due to my lazy wagoning.

Regarding the Walrein thing, we disagree. I don't get why you're arguing with me over this, do you really have nothing more pertinent to press than a D1 townread of mine?

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

The above is a good post regarding Eury I agree with. I didn't actually read what Eury said about my slot other than her TLDR, which was bad, so she can go for all I care.

Disappointed, Refa never made his promised post.

Anyways I read everything and don't have much to say. Of the people who wagoned me, I find Eury the worst and she can still get lynched. It's odd that we see cycle docs and yet Prims is outright deathproof. I'll lynch Bard, Eury, or Walrein at this point.

[Percivalé]

this is the point I just stop trying to rolespec altogether 

[Bard]

Hi friends, I got a bit busy but I'll get to all your walls of texts later on.

For now I see a votal I don't like the looks of so I'll move ##Unvote

##Vote: Eurykins for a combination of "Not Me Over Me" and "Well I dislike walls too :^)".

I'll have to get back to you on whether I find Eurykins particularly scummy, I don't remember him being scummy as of my last post. 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ You all gave me shit about Refa but look, you did move off it. This is why I don't pay attention to early Day 1 wagon hysteria because people usually find something better, and I am rather annoyed people attacked me over it. It's like you're telling me I have to play the game according to your standards instead of my own.

Anyway I'll spend some time catching up and hating myself.

[Snike]

Bard you should probably claim.

I'm less inclined to vote Eury today because of the claim but I don't think that clears her of suspicion. Cycle 4 in a game of this size is a long ways away and I think there's a non-zero chance it could be a claim designed to draw out the lynch. I guess what I''m saying is that we shouldn't let her skate until C4 on that claim. That being said, it's a doc clam, so:

##Unvote

 

[Percivalé]

that's not really why we find you scummy though. you might see it that way but it's more that you complain about your playstyle differing from everyone else's but don't put much effort into scumhunting aside from that. we're all past the refa thing now, I'm not even voting you because of that. 

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

Eury's claim shouldn't be used to absolve her. If BBM is a cycle doc, and Eury is too, and Prims is deathproof, then it stands to reason we could have more docs in some weird mechanic SB crafted and one could easily be scum.

Does anyone else feel Walrein is like, a perfect fit on ANY scumteam? Heh, I really want that flip. I want to see what Bard produces, I may hop back on the Eury wagon.

[BBM]

I agree that eury's claim isn't evidence that she's town, but it explained some of her play so that made me less suspicious of her than bard. Let's see what Bard posts once catching up. Based on his post talking about people getting mad at him about Refa I don't think he understands why people are voting for him.