We Need Serenes Forest Mafia Mafia 5 After All! - GAME OVER

[Percivalé]

ah man yell heah 420 bro . martry makes more sense as a role name becUasue martyrs by definition take the place of someone being martyed.... martyrs FOR them....you hav to call that other role something else becasue it doesnt fit the definiton of martyr literally in the dictirnonary

[Percivalé]

im an englu ish major so smogon has to listen to me because they all have competitive pokemon maors. they arent english majors. they wouldnt know what theyre talking about. i bet they cant even play mafia either

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

1 minute ago, Vi-astra said:

im an englu ish major so smogon has to listen to me because they all have competitive pokemon maors. they arent english majors. they wouldnt know what theyre talking about. i bet they cant even play mafia either

 

[Percivalé]

39 minutes ago, Walrein said:

anyways i'm going to work

and yes i do realize it's an absolutely stupid time to have to go to work

there's a reason i've been sleeping a ridiculous amount during the day lately

my mom goes ealeir jokes on you

[Ampharos]

Just now, Vi-astra said:

my mom goes ealeir jokes on you

are you accounting for the fact that I'm in central time tho

also never change via

[Percivalé]

Just now, Walrein said:

are you accounting for the fact that I'm in central time tho

also never change via

I'M IN CENTRAL TIME TOO NJOKES ON YOU!!!!!!!! are you my neighbor

[Percivalé]

i lov eyou walrein

[Ampharos]

Just now, Vi-astra said:

i lov eyou walrein

somebody's gotta

[Mackc2]

...What?

[Percivalé]

6 minutes ago, Mackc2 said:

...What?

what what cherry putt smelly butt

[Athena_57]

Okay, I'm going to start by attempting to clarify my role a bit more.

The players I and my fellow connector connect get this connection indefinitely (==> as long as they live)
I can select another (or the same) person each night, creating an additional QT.

I did indeed select Refa as my target, but was redirected towards nightmare.

12 hours ago, Shinori said:

What about the fact that Athena voted Bart > himself?  Or did he have an actual case on Bart before that?  I don't quite remember him talking too much about Bart but I easily could have missed it.

What's the difference between him not voting Marth over himself while voting Bart > Himself?

My thoughts on Bart around mid-day 1 were "Kind of weird, but not enough content to judge", then his late day 1 posts I felt were mediocre. I think this makes it clear why I went for him when choosing between the wagons.

11 hours ago, Snike said:

In addition to this, he outright admitted the quote mine in the exchange at the end of day + was pretty clearly ignoring posts. It was like trying to pull a rotten tooth.

I wasn't ignoring posts, I missed a single one. What was happening there is that around phase end it was midnight, I had an exam the following morning which I hadn't prepared well enough for and I was on the brink of being lynched, which meant I was kind of stressing out. I apologize for missing that post, but you're blowing it out of proportion.

11 hours ago, Refa said:

If Athena didn't have a case on Bart then the discrepancy is strange.  @athena_57 Why did you refuse to vote Marth in a "not me over me" but voted Bartozio in a similar fashion?

When I didn't want to vote Marth it wasn't 30 minutes before deadline. There was still plenty of time for Bartozio to come back and do something which would solidify my read. Marth was null and I didn't think it was necessary to join a wagon at that point. When I voted Bart, it was less than an hour before deadline and his wagon had like 4 votes. It was going to come down to me/Marth/Bart and of those I obviously went for Bart.

10 hours ago, Snike said:

OK, so, starting from page 6, above is athena explaining or trying to explain bart's vote on satsuma

Page 7, a little backpedal;

 

That's a bit of a misrep. First I say "I myself do not think this is a problem, but am more bothered by the aforementioned filler posts", then I say "I didn't agree w/ his reasoning, only his conclusion". How is that backpedaling?

10 hours ago, SullyMcGully said:

So I'm town. My character is Rapier. I'm not going to tell you my role yet, just that I know @Zkirsche did some kind of night action last night. Care to explain?

Not going to go into how bad (note: bad, not scummy) this is, others have done that, but I'm confused about something else. You don't know who he visited? That's weird af, you just got a message "Hey, Kirsche used a night action."?

10 hours ago, SullyMcGully said:

Elie used a night action. 

My role heavily implies that there are a few roles in this game without night actions. Either that or it's useless. In which case there's no reason for me not to claim, I'm not a threat to the scum after all.

I'm assuming your role lets you select a bunch of people (2/3 I'd say) and check who of them did something? In that case, I'd keep that info silent if I were you. It's useful info in that it pinpoints you towards either scum or powerful roles, but I wouldn't make it public, unless it's to support a case, as that helps scum more than town I feel.

 

10 hours ago, SullyMcGully said:

BTW Weapons is acting scummy. But I'm probably the last one to notice that.

I wouldn't classify it as scummy at all tbh. I think it's weird enough to classify as town.

 

5 hours ago, eclipse said:

##Vote: athena_57

So, back to this post.  When you don't understand the cases on someone, it implies that you aren't scumreading them.  And yet somehow this was more deserving of a lynch than zeus, who would've given an extremely strong associative read on Bibbon/you/me?

I am extremely bothered by this post. I have already responded to this previously, saying Marth and Zeus were both null, but I wanted Zeus vigged, not hanged.

And most importantly I disagree a Zeus lynch would have provided associative reads on the 3 of us, let alone extremely strong ones. I do not see how him flipping either town or scum leaves any of us looking better or worse.

4 hours ago, Junk said:

Athena at worst calls Zeus' posts bad and explicitly states that he found Zeus null (before he came to the concslusion that Zeus was townie). It just feels like he's trying to twist athena's words into something they aren't.  

Another  scummy thing I noticed with athena is that his vote switch from Satsuma to Nightmare (page 21) seems unnatural. Athena's vote according to Athena is because Satsuma wasn't providing reads (or I guess definitive opinions would be better) yet athena quotes a post from Satsuma where he does the exact same thing where he says some stuff but isn't able come to a definite conclusion yet this time Athena likes it?

Also says he doesn't like the marth wagon but I'm 99% sure somewhere that he said that he found Marth's entrance to be "mediocre" which was what the cases on Marth were about so that also makes no sense. This makes his bartozio vote look much worse IMO because he later prioritizes bartozio over marth over a disappointing post from bart when we're never given the reason why he doesn't like the marth wagon (when he seemingly agreed with the marth cases before).

 

Where did I come to the conclusion Zeus was townie? I'm pretty sure I didn't. I mean, it's a nice change of pace from people interpreting my null as scum, but still.

I think you're forgetting here Snike and Satsuma are the same slot and the main reason for the swap was Snike.

His entrance was mediocre, but not bad enough to warrant him being a prime lynch candidate. I also thought the case was based on his Junko vote, not his opening. I did not agree with the Marth case.

3 hours ago, Refa said:

Also yeah, that's actually a good point on Athena.  Would vote there now.  I know he said that Zeus was null to him, but those interactions still bother me.  Don't really remember anything else he did before, and it feels like he's less of a presence today (not scummy, but makes it hard to keep my read updated).

 

Phase start was at midnight for me, so this entire phase has been night for me until I started catching up. Hence why I have been less of a presence.

Read update time:

Town: Via, Walrein, Refa

Most confident in Via, followed by Refa.

Leaning town: Weapons (too weird for scum), Shinori, Kirsche, BBM, Eclipse (moved down from pure townread because their stuff on me feels like they didn't bother reading my response)

Null: Unmentioned people

Leaning scum: Mack (because of nightmare's stuff mostly, curious to see how this develops)

Scum: Jaybee (see below

I wasn't even aware of how bad his early content was tbh (in fact I forgot about it) until I saw BBM's case. I was bothered by Nightmare's "distanced summaries", but this is even worse.
What I'm adding to this is that of all the Bartozio votes, his concerns me the most. All of the votes from nightmare onwards I'll classify as consolidation votes and am thus not bothered by, and all the other votes before mine have been made by people I townread.

I don't think the Bart wagon was primarily scumdriven, but obviously there was some scum in the early votes and none of the others make sense as scum imo. It kind of feels like JB placed a random vote on Bart, then saw that turn into a wagon and felt "huh, that works, let's leave it here". Like, he's obviously scumreading Bibbon big time, makes a post attacking her but doesn't swap? Feels like he just wanted to keep the Bart wagon intact tbh.

##Vote: Jaybee

However, speaking of that JB post attacking Bibbon, did Bibbon ever reply? I like her stuff from today, but some of JB's questions are good questions. Did I miss the reply?

[Athena_57]

Maybe add Fable to leaning town too, forgot about him.

Though maybe my leaning town list is way too big as is...

[Percivalé]

1 minute ago, athena_57 said:

Though maybe my leaning town list is way too big as is...

town is majority in this game for a reason..............i wouldn't worry about it man

[Athena_57]

Oh yeah, have some random bit of rolespec too:

This is just me spitballing, but considering Via's a character riddler, is it safe to assume there's a tarot riddler out there? In my eyes, it would make sense for one of these two to be scum, the other town, that could make for some interesting dynamics from a design perspective with to who do we give info if they both claim?

Personally, I'm townreading Via and I'm not alone on this, which would leave our tarot riddler being scum. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

[Athena_57]

@SullyMcGully You were looking for gamestances from people? At the bottom of my big post a few posts up is mine.

[SullyMcGully]

10 hours ago, BBM said:

sully, does your role just check if someone has actions (so if they have a passive role vs an active role)?

in that case I can see some use because sully could target marth for example to clarify whether or not he has an action? i think scum are more likely to have at least some active components to their role (although having an active component doesn't make you scum)

Yes... sort of. I don't wanna claim yet. However, one aspect of my role does tell me whether or not the player I targeted used night actions or not. Last night, Eliedad targeted Kirsche. Kirsche apparently used a night action.

In the last game I played, a lot of players were Vanilla/had passive roles/had roles that could only be used once or twice. If somebody had used a night action in P5, I'd say there would've been about a 50-60% chance of that person being scum. I suppose it's probably different in a game where everyone has a role. 

I still want to hear what Kirsche did last night, or at least a good reason why he can't tell.

After reading over last night's posts, I think I can clear Weapons for the moment. I'm new to Mafia, but Weapons seems fairly well-known around here and people seem to think that he's acting pretty normal. I agree with the logic that scum wouldn't draw attention to themselves like that, unless they intentionally did so as a sort of faux-townslip or something. That's something I'm not finding any more evidence for at the moment, though, and once Weapons posted his actual thoughts, I felt a lot more comfortable with his slot.

The way I felt about Weapons last night is the way I feel about Bibbon right now. He showed up, made a few posts, and left us all with more questions than answers. Unless Bibbon has townslipped or something already, I don't see a reason not to suspect them. 

@Bibbon why did you claim? Doesn't that decrease your usefulness as a jailer? I'd say that's the weirdest part of what I've seen of your playstyle so far. 

##Unvote

Depending on what your answer is, I may vote you next, Bibbon.

Also, Refa and Via are giving me weird vibes. I know I need to stop relating everything in this game to P5... but in that game those two were titans. Easy townreads from start to finish. And that was with a lazy Refa and a high Via. Now, their performance is kinda... lackluster. They're stumbling over little things. They aren't engaging other players like they did then. They aren't acting like obvtown, and maybe that's just because they're under suspicion? Maybe they're both busy IRL? Maybe Via is trying out a new type of weed and it's throwing him off? But maybe it's because they aren't town. 

All of this is based just on what I've seen over D2 so far though. I'll go back and read D1 if I have time after school today in a few hours. If there's any big D1 stuff I'm missing, feel free to add it to my "recommended reading" list!

I'll be back in a few hours.

 

[SullyMcGully]

Oh, and thanks for gamestates, BTW. They help.

[SullyMcGully]

Oh, I was just having a lovely conversation with @Lord Gaius over Discord. Please continue to bug him, folks.

[Zkirsche]

12 hours ago, Refa said:

Kill me.

Shoutouts to Antihero LUL. I'm not gonna claim what I did. Sully wants me to claim but is voting Bibbon for claiming randomly, which is a really weird disconnect to me. Sully what happens if I was jailer and do what you say? I either claim outright or make it apparent I am a strong PR that won't ever claim. What is Bibbon trying to do as scum by claiming jailer in your opinion? Confusing slot.

Weapons there's much more to my Junko case than just sheeping what Marth said. One point of contention especially was how outdated Junko's reads were (not so much now), which is scummy because it isn't actually hunting for scum to just attack people for their ED1 stuff, just pushing for a lynch. Feels like you're really misrepresenting my D1 reads there, especially since I explained in great detail what the scum intent in BBM's ED1 actions were. Who is scum btw? Top three scumreads?

I don't think Weapons claiming he tracked me is over the top @Vi-astra considering that is what Sully was kind of implying. I think he did it to end confusion ("people are bad at reading between the lines" - Refa) from people like Shinori.

Quote

I STILL feel the worst about kirsche tho. Again I feel he's misrepresenting me. Implies that i've kept on saying i'll update with reads later ("can't keep getting away") when i've said that once. States that I never read his interpretation and unless I missed something I already explained how it doesn't make sense to come to the conclusion that BBM had a read on via based on what BBM said. Furthermore it's extremely frustrating that he says i'm "coasting" on my reads when i've barely been active. I'd say up to this point i've made maybe 3 significant posts: kirsche vote, kirsche and eclipse stuff, and finally my marth/athena reads so I feel like he's been trying to paint me as more active who's done nothing. Also he states that I never updated my read beyond his BBM vote when I literally stated that I was keeping my vote on him was because I was also bothered how he sheeped Marth's logic about my waffling where 2 of the 3 quotes had nothing to do with waffling. He also just handwaves one of my reads as OMGUS without actually looking at the logic behind it. (assuming he's referring to my read on marth)? Also his reasoning for voting bartozio over athena doesn't seem very good. He doesn't want to lynch co networker because ??? and a comment about his vote switch looking like flailing scum which i'm not sure how. How does scum benefit from switching to a person with far less votes on them? While he had stated before that he was stuck between the two it bothers me how he asks snike  for why athena was scummy, ignores snike's response and votes bart because of really vague reasons. 

It doesn't matter how many times you post or say these things, it's all about the time spent sitting on them. It shouldn't take you all phase to come up with 4 reads where 3 of them are based on ED1 content and the fourth is someone voting you. Making three posts doesn't excuse the posts being bad in quality and your reads staying the same in them. Those three posts were made over the course of the day so if there's no change or boost in opinions it's a big tell.

##Vote: Junko

I don't care if you explained it doesn't make sense I explained why it made sense so address that please instead of substituting your own reality and version of events. Bolded shows complete lack of an attempt to think things through from my perspective.

It's not about scum benefitting but I thought it was scum panicking by trying to find a counterwagon that sticks. In hindsight I guess Bart was just being earnest and had very little self-preservation but in the heat of the moment I messed up my read of his actions. I also didn't notice Snike's response to anything so if you could point me in that direction.

Refa said he would sheep my logic on Junko late D1 to the point where we almost lynch him, lays into Junko hard for Junko's read on him, but then 180s because Junko has conviction? Did I miss something, why was Junko town enough to defend him before that post out of interest Refa?

I thought Junko's point against Athena was good but then Athena just comes in and seemingly destroys it instantly so ??? on this slot still. More happy to lynch here than yesterday though. Need to wait to see more from Mack. @Shinori have you finished rereading yet? Thoughts on players? Can you make like a listpost or some shit I hate your quotewalls.

Still need to go over everything Jb and Eury related.

 

[Refa]

I think Junko's read on me is shit but I think his read on Athena at least was sheepable enough for me to vote the slot and his read on you seemed okay.  Basically my progression is I thought he was town for D1 -> you (?) or Marth made a case that was good and I wanted to lynch it -> I'm feeling pretty unconfident in my reads but continue to vote Junko -> He makes a post that reminds me of why I originally townread him.  I'm...trying to disregard his read on me because I'm not sure if it's scum intent or I'm just biased because it's on me.  I want to see a response there before I read more into it.

TBH, I just saw Athena's lynch priority and he has all of the hard to lynch people as Leaning Town/Strong Town which is I dunno...I'm just thinking, there's no way that all of these people are actually town.

Time to read the other 50 posts that I missed while sleeping.

[SullyMcGully]

8 minutes ago, Zkirsche said:

Shoutouts to Antihero LUL. I'm not gonna claim what I did. Sully wants me to claim but is voting Bibbon for claiming randomly, which is a really weird disconnect to me. Sully what happens if I was jailer and do what you say? I either claim outright or make it apparent I am a strong PR that won't ever claim. What is Bibbon trying to do as scum by claiming jailer in your opinion? Confusing slot.

Well, TBH I was kinda expecting something like this. I still consider your reaction to be useful material, though. 

I suspect Bibbon's claim because it was unprompted. Nobody was suspecting Bibbon of anything, Eclipse wasn't complaining about her role failing, and I thought we'd finished with everyone roleclaiming for the day. I don't see a reason for Bibbon to claim, and I see potentially scummy reasons for claiming jailer this early. Honestly, it seems like the kind of thing I would do trying to give myself a townslip but that would be because I'm a noob. Bibbon is not. At least I don't think so.

Also, after rereading my role PM I'm realizing I could have been RB'd last night and I wouldn't have any way of knowing about it today. My role utility decreases by the hour...

 

[SullyMcGully]

To clarify, that might mean that if I was RB'd, Kirsche did absolutely nothing last night. However, the fact that Kirsche did not deny doing something last night in his big post up there makes me think that is not the case.

Also, what intelligent scumteam would have RB'd Elieson?

[Refa]

Just now, SullyMcGully said:

To clarify, that might mean that if I was RB'd, Kirsche did absolutely nothing last night. However, the fact that Kirsche did not deny doing something last night in his big post up there makes me think that is not the case.

Also, what intelligent scumteam would have RB'd Elieson?

If you get RB'd, you get notified I'm pretty sure.

[SullyMcGully]

6 minutes ago, Refa said:

If you get RB'd, you get notified I'm pretty sure.

I... kinda did. I don't wanna give away too much for scum to use against me, but the message I got goes both ways. If that makes any sense.

[Zkirsche]

I feel like I just let Sully rolefish me