We Need Serenes Forest Mafia Mafia 5 After All! - GAME OVER

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

1 minute ago, Refa said:

I THOUGHT HE WAS TOO WEAPONS

Nightmare- Macho Martyr
Snike (Polydeuces) + SatsumaFSoySoy - Role Miller
Marth- Self Watcher/Delayer
athena_57- Co Neighborizer

Are the currently claimed roles FTR.

I actually came to that conclusion only because it seemed like that's what you were implying

[Mackc2]

Is Weapons always like this?

[Percivalé]

yeah but he's been moreso this game for some reason

[Percivalé]

##vote: weapons 

[SullyMcGully]

4 minutes ago, WeaponsofMassConstruction said:

ok nvm I thought sully was implying he was tracker and saw kirsche visit eury

but yeah now i'm confused as to why that's claim + vote worthy

I'm not a tracker. I just know Kirsche used a night action. 

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

##Unvote

[Percivalé]

trying to decide whether or not sully's just clumsy town who claimed that cuz it kind of sucks everyone knows people who have night actions now for some reason, though I guess if sully were scum that means scum would know that already but whatever

[Refa]

##Unvote

Kill me.

[Percivalé]

also my weapons vote is serious, I'm getting a gut feeling he's scum.

[Percivalé]

I think sully might be town who impulse-acted thinking he had scum

[Bluedoom]

I suspect that is a follower claim. Not sure if this means kirsche is mafia is we got a track report on him directing to eury, need to hear from kirsche.

 

Anyway no one visited me last night.  I'm on a trip right now so I may not be able to post a lot for 48 hours but I'm feeling jb as scum after the Bart go because his case wasn't very good imo.  Also think his reaction to my claim was scummy because rolespec read that sole reason to suspect me. 

[Bluedoom]

From memory soysoy did not claim role miller at the start of the game right? I have a feeling that the claim might be fake if itcame from Snike later in the game when he subbed in. I'll have to read they thread again when I get time but now I'll ##vote:jb

[Bluedoom]

I'm phone posting so this is gonna be shit.

[Bluedoom]

I actually think that shinori is town because I feel like he isn't tunneling and also he seems to be involved in questioning other people and formulating reads.  Him being scumread for the eury defence doesn't make sense when he did the same stuff in the last game as town. Why do you feel he is likely scum via? 

[Mackc2]

The two players who stand out to me currently (having not read too much of the thread) are Sully and Weapons.

I think Sully is just confused town, I don't really know what sort of benefit his claim would have to scum unless he is instead just confused scum. 

Weapons bothers me a little more, he could just be town trolling, but still he completely disrupted the thread for a no reason, though I can't really see too much benefit in that for scum either, also he didn't explain the Fable vote unless that was explained earlier or something?
 

##Vote: Weapons 

[Bluedoom]

Oh I misread what you said about shinori my bad via. 

[Refa]

Marth, what do you think about Athena/Zeus/Weapons?  How do you feel about JB's other content?

[Percivalé]

tbh I don't know how I feel about shinori I still need to answer his question from earlier but I'm not home and reading back on mobile is a bitch. I'm not scumreading him though as it stands he was just asking me why he was making me paranoid because some stuff I was being kinda dumb about

[Bluedoom]

I feel like Athena should be town here given the eod because as scum he had every reason to vote me. 

Zeus my stance hasnt changed because he hasn't done anything to change my mind,  ditto with junk. 

 

My thoughts on weapons are that he didn't try to push a lynch hard yesterday so that is definitely suspicious in hindsight.  I feel like misreading role pm part is genuine but yoI'm not sure why tracking kirsche to eury implies that he is scum given sully's claim so I'd like to know his thoughts on the matter. 

[Refa]

1 minute ago, Magnificence Incarnate said:

My thoughts on weapons are that he didn't try to push a lynch hard yesterday so that is definitely suspicious in hindsight.  I feel like misreading role pm part is genuine but yoI'm not sure why tracking kirsche to eury implies that he is scum given sully's claim so I'd like to know his thoughts on the matter. 

He said he wasn't serious about tracking Kirsche.

[Percivalé]

he didn't track kirsche to eury though he admitted he was joking

[Bluedoom]

Gg

[Snike]

Spoiler

16 minutes ago, Nightmare said:

I'm subbed out, but I have permission to post this.

Bolded: I don't really understand the first part. How is a pre-conceived notion not a logical failing? The second part I can see how it can be read that way, but it wasn't my intention so sorry about that. What I'm saying there is that it feels like withholding from comments like the things I said (which honestly seemed completely innocuous to me) feels stifling, and I don't think that's a productive way to do things.

The other quotes: the first one is just me giving up. Again it wasn't my intent to AtE you or anyone, but sorry if it came across that way. The other two I thought were obvious as jokes.

 

By the way, Mack hasn't read the thread so give him some time to catch up. I've given him a summary, but still.

I can understand the otherstuff as jokes but in addition to the dismissal of cases w/o like direct refutation it struck me as further ate; I might've overreached but that's what really bothered me.

I don't think assuming on the fence = absolute scum was the problem; it was more that you felt super passive. And I don't think anyone is saying that you're not allowed to question the motivations of a player; in that particular case though the way you're presenting that ignores the context of the situation; ie 20-30 minutes before the deadline with no plurality lynch in place. I guess I just see it as more opinionated than factually based.

I think this is a bit of the culture shift via mentioned.

Yeah I'm not about to press Mack just yet.

@Nightmare Above's for you.

@Refa I'm assuming your second line at bottom of 32 is referring to the ate montage. It's highlighting them and especially in context of being wagoned IMO they look bad because I can imagine scum doing that in that situation. The reason why scum would do that would be to get people off their wagon;

If you're talking athena; I feel like it's pushing mls/.trying to earn towncred esp with zeus interactions.

Below: most of my posts on athena D1: (get the montage music ready and follow the links for context) I may have missed a reply or two but they wouldn't be more than a line at the most.

Spoiler

On 4/11/2018 at 6:34 PM, Snike said:

Hot takes:

-I think Athena's scummy, Mostly off of gut but look at the snippy comment@ jb around page 12 when he didn't immediately content after the unvote. IDT that's townie.

-I'd be down with a rein lynch except he's not on the playerlist. He might be a hidden but that's a waste of time at this pt. This makes a lot of kirsche's case on BBM look weak, but the tunneling is more in line w/ town kirsche.

More after I read my rolepm.

On 4/11/2018 at 6:44 PM, Snike said:

I imagine the thread came up with a case of BBMitis. It's a tragic illness that causes posts to mysteriously vanish right before one's own eyes, and the leading cause for imaginary d1 lynches.

##Vote: Athena

Aforementioned gutread + I feel like the back and forth between him and zeus was really just padding instead of advancing the gamestate. I might be overly critical but esp. after Bard salt in brexitland the snark on unvote posts/lack of content is a warning sign. Rereading back now.

Satsuma get in our scum qt

On 4/11/2018 at 9:44 PM, Snike said:

F

I'd reply in kind, but I have other commitments in mind.

I'm on the athena wagon still. Aforementioned reasons and the back and forth between him and my other head where the omgus accusation came out was kind of hypocritical. 'Don't take my words seriously' (paraphrased) when one is cracking down on someone over (partially) joke votes is ??? at best, and bringing OMGUS into the conversation feels like an attempt to dismiss the other side. Then on zeus, he doesn't feel like he's really scumhunting imo. Like it's pushing zeus to try and content, but reads more like filler than town on a case. Lastly, I feel like when he has come up with reads, it's almost always after being pressured. It's not proactive, it's reactive, and I do not like it one bit. Vote stays.

I would be willing to consolidate on Marth, bc while there's reasoning behind the junko vote, it would've made sense had he voted back then during that case even if it's. I'll sheep that saying zeus is newbscum then voting junko does look bad, esp. since the latter wasn't mentioned in that second window of posts. The strength of feeling feels stronger on zeus yet the vote doesn't coincide.

Zeus should be vigged. Slot looks scummy but I think he would be a low info lynch as bibbons said.

Nightmare needs to do more than just listpost.

Bartozio needs to post more in general.

Kirsche's page 12 makes me feel better about him. His initial reasoning on the bbm wagon was kinda dumb but that whole situation is for obvious reasons. I don't agree with his conclusions but it doesn't read as scummy to me per se.

Weapons I can agree is kind of weird but for me that's more because his style this game is different. He's not usually this wordy. I don't want to lynch him today.

That's enough for now.

@Fable Just double checking, but wolf = scum right? Like organized scum and not serial killer or otherwise third.

On 4/11/2018 at 10:45 PM, Snike said:

I can understand that fable but at the same time It's at the point of refuge in audacity where I want the slot gone, but I'm not about to waste our only reliable source of info on him. It's almost too easy, if that makes sense? A vig shot would be a better idea because the vigilante then doesn't run the risk of shooting someone more useful to town, so to speak + today's lynch can provide more in terms of interactions.

@Zkirsche get on my wagon. What do you think about athena rn? Still null?

@eclipseWhy isn't athena just as bad for the exchange w/ soy back on page 6/7 then? I entirely agree now that I'm looking at the actual post that it's bad (because I would and have hedged my words similarly as town) but I think  Athena's is more blatant and he got away with it earlier on. Refer to my previous post wrt other stuff on Marth, but with that in mind, the junko vote looks much worse imo. It boils down to: Logic's ok but case is mediocre vs I think x is newbscum. Latter is stronger wording.

I am getting cut by posts so the latest I have seen was eclipse's response to kirsche as an fyi.

Athena >> Marth >> Zeus. Zeus should be shot tonight if he isn't lynched imo, with the other lynch survivor being inspected.

 

On 4/11/2018 at 11:22 PM, Snike said:

He's been active yes but like only towards Satsuma (who had been engaged on by bart beforehand) and zeus (his brother). The rest of his content looks to have been pressed from him by other players. Zeus being his brother could also explain the latter interactions, and even then it wasn't scumhunting as much as poking a lazy slot. His other stuff is bad imo.

There's little initiative is what I'm getting at.

On 4/11/2018 at 11:10 PM, Snike said:

I agree but I think athena is scum, too. Of these two, he is the better lynch because he also provides a good amount of info bc of his interactions with the majority of the game.

@Shinori I kind of commandeered the vote; We're still working things out: Atm we're not like this:

we're like this:

  Reveal hidden contents

And I'm the one without the beak. I hope there'll be more from sats soon but I wouldn't expect hard scumreads just yet.

I could sheep nightmare or bartozio lynches but my big 3 are still what I listed above. These two suffer from a lack of content but they're not as criminal imo.

@eclipseI'll lay it out in a few minutes, but particularly there I'm focusing on why athena was pushing on my other head and then what happened in response to being challenged.

 

On 4/11/2018 at 11:36 PM, Snike said:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Here's the exchange, minus the quotes inside and I think one satsuma post. Y'all should follow the links to the actual context; it makes more sense there + it'll catch stuff I'm missing

Basically Satsuma admits to making jokeposts (In RVS) and is getting pushed for lack of content. (On Page 5 before admitting to these things) Satsuma suggests that athena's lynch happy.

Athena says not to take his words seriously, when he made the first comment (presumably in earnest) about satsuma's chance to redeem himself. That's backpedaling + hypocrisy.

Setsuna calls Athena on indecisiveness and that dissonance, as well as following bartozio. Explains his reasoning

Athena responds. At the end implies Satsuma is using OMGUS tactics. <- this is dishonest.

Call me out if you think I'm misrepresenting this, but that's what I'm reading.

Feeling worse about Bart bc of this too, but I want more content.

On 4/12/2018 at 12:21 AM, Snike said:

@eclipse

I could repost the stuff at the top of page 18 but I'll read instead. Not quoting bc it's clunky.

Next post is satsuma vote; which makes sense from the previous stuff. Why wasn't it in place earlier?

I don't think the argument about confrontation holds bc they're obviously in a confrontation : Not voting is a separate matter in a sense. I mean I'm kinda flaming marth but I'm not voting him; does that mean I'm averse to confronting him?

The vote itself makes sense if he thinks satsuma's stuff is bad; the read on the bartozio case is ??? because he goes from agreeing with the conclusion to saying he's scummy but no need to wagon. I'd like to see more about that.

Bro defense on zeus is null, but it's telling that his read stays the same after the zeusShow of like 13-16. It doesn't evolve despite the pushing.

Next post is part and parcel of the reactionary vibe I get from him. It's less pushing something and more answering pressure/attention than taking the lead.

after that is

to JB's unvote before he contented, and this is what actually set me on him while I was reading in anticipation of the inevitable polysub.This is kinda a cheap shot, and the fact that he does not go to respond to JB's followup post, instead moving on to zeus, makes it look worse.

The zeus stuff I believe I've expressed my concerns about, but afterwards, when I sub in, he responds to Satsuma + my role thing, but not to my stuff on him, when I'm directly voting him. This goes against the confrontation point from above, though maybe I'm just the Bogeysnike or something to him.

all in all 7/10 needs more spice, or perhaps eau de la village.

On 4/12/2018 at 3:42 PM, Snike said:

This is more a argument listpost than anything bc I cba'd to quote everything

Athenapost page 21:

-You can't crack down on someone making jokeposts

-So then why not let the other members of the thread do that instead? I understand you want him to contribute but what you did was essentially pad the thread.

@Quoteblock bit I explained what I missed, and I specifically said follow the links. You're right in that it appears misleading but I'm directing people to context in that same post. The tldr is that sf software sucks.

I am aware of that point, and I am not disagreeing.

There's indecisiveness and there's refusal to provide a read; you're calling satsuma no content when they're evidently trying to adjust to the site.

If we're talking defense you're doing the same thing here; why should I give you credit?

I mean people did comment about satsuma, and no one was biting, so moving the vote would be an ok play there to add more pressure. What I was more getting at is why didn't you say more on your change of opinion?

Why is it ok when zeus doesn't content, later in the game, but not ok when satsuma doesn't within the first 5-6 pages?

- ;/ So why say anything? I'm going to disagree with @eclipse here because I think that is suspect bc it's a lowkey flame and then no follow-up to apologise or update a read once OP JB delivered.

-I did point to the jb interaction, so you could've mentioned that.

The bit at the end is quote mined; read what I said just underneath it in actual post

Actually, here's the stuff

This is what you quoted:

here is what I said on bart:

I can understand why my first line seems contradictory but if I can clarify; I'm not saying that they didn't change but that their progression was stagnant.

The second line is important to the point I was trying to make, so cutting it is misleading.

 -Tunneling != focusing majority of a wagon on something. I've had other reads pretty clearly, like the Bartozio thing I mentioned.

cutting post here so everything else I can write altogether

 

 

On 4/12/2018 at 4:19 PM, Snike said:

This might be over the top but

tl;dr on athena; interaction with satsuma is bad, changes reads on bart w/o really elaborating (looks like distancing), does not scumhunt zeus (padding), is overly reactionary to the point where I find most of his content had to be pressed out of him, and lastly he just quote mined me on page 21 to undermine my point about Bartozio.

I am oversimplifying but yeah @Zkirsche

On 4/12/2018 at 4:44 PM, Snike said:

Bartozio should claim IMO. I think that last votechange was p bad without talking about anything else.

I still think Athena is scum but his role is provable. I also agree w/ BBm saying it's probably a one town, one scum, but I think athena is scum. Look at Eclipse's page 23.

I can see the junko case but I simply do not feel as strongly about it today as I do the other two.

Sheeping refa/kirsche on marth's role; it's easily provable regardless.

On 4/12/2018 at 4:50 PM, Snike said:

Unfinished catchup thoughts;

-weapons; athena exchange is null; we don't know what town athena looks like on this site. So I really don't think athena has a satisfying answer for that ever

-oh god no not the eurywall nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

-I should clarify about role miller; That is not the actual name of my slot. I just scan as traditionally mafia-aligned role to rolecops. I should scan inno to an alignment cop, but there's an outside chance given that the mods are trolls that I scan as said role in alignment checks.

Hint: there's a few movies sharing the same name as the role.

I don't see a problem with this wall tbh

@RefaJust to be clear: I'm pushing my stuff, and Satsuma's pushing his reads. We are talking but I'm not making him my ventriloquist dummy.

-I did mention the interaction as padding, though. I also said it's not really scumhunting iirc (look at athena response to my case)

then this show happened

poke me if you want more

On 4/12/2018 at 6:29 PM, Snike said:

I am not convinced by above, but I think BBM has a point about the role implementation. Athena also cut out my bit about the quote mine.

I'll consolidate on bart but for reals does anyone else want to input here?

@Nightmare We're not turbo lynching junk today. IMO it's Bart or Athena. Do you have an opinion one way or another?

 

 

[Snike]

I just got captcha'd for that post;

 

catching up now but SF PLZ

[Bluedoom]

Ngl as much as weapons isn't doing anything I low-key enjoy his trolling. He should seriously respond with some reads. What're your thoughts on eod weapons? 

I feel like Walrein might be scum after flaking past ed1, their play is starting to give me antihero flashbacks where they stirred up stuff early and then flaked.