Folgore Rangers Mafia -- GAME OVER

[Rapier]

Derp, don't ask me why the hell I voted Mancer. I'm out of my mind.

Unvote

[Rapier]

Don't focus on one person = great tactics gg. You had reasons against him, but then said you'd rather go back to your slightly scummy lead of Sho. Smooth, daddio.

My best scum read =/= my only scum read. Also, what the hell, I never said I had only a slightly scummy read towards Sho. Don't distort my words like this.

Mostly did that... that was a short paragraph with shoddy logic and a single poke.

You've done a few strange things and your reasoning behind it wasn't great. After all your stuff about Mancer, you go and vote Sho.

Yeah, 'cause he roleclaimed Cop as I was finishing my post. Otherwise, I'd have voted him.

I didn't praise him, I acknowledged that the answer he gave was suitable. Before this post, I wasn't too sure about you, but you're doing a bad job of covering your rear.

Sorry, but I take a "well done, JB!" as a praise. You did the same thing later, saying his post was "most cool!" before saying he did something curiously suspicious, and I still don't understand this paradox.

"I don't see any value in voting Sho... I didn't vote Sho because everyone else was... I don't have any leads I guess I'll have to vote Sho." Does that sounds familiar? I'll give you a groovy clue, you said it!

Refer to my first quote. There you will find my answer.

You never voted Mancer, your votes went Loocina -> Sho. That's funny isn't it? Best of all, you said that Lucy was one of your leads, but you've never actually gave any reasons... padding out your scumpool right?

I had weak reasons agaisnt her. I just wanted to know what she was going to say about the accusations on her. If memory serves, she was also voting as many people as Mancer.

Mancer is scum for jumping with his vote? Sure, I can see where that's coming from, he's a little fishy, especially since he's jumped back and forward with some votes.

So you think ouy Doc is scum? How... Strange. I voted him now because I was a derp and because I'm crazy, before realizing my mistake and unvoting him, but I really doubt he's scum. My point that he should be more careful about his votes still stands, though.

You have more plotholes than Back to the Future! Most uncool! He was way ahead of Mancer and you weren't terribly adamant with your Sho vote.

##TotallyBogus: Rapier

Of course I wasn't terribly adamant with my Sho vote, you can't be sure that someone is scum until he flips. My reason for voting Sho was that he wasted our time telling us about flavor and meta, and he didn't help with anything else during D1, something I figure scum would do, also known as, respectively, directing (towards Scorri) using a silly reason (flavor and meta) and refusing to help town (when he said "Guys I can't D1 sorry").

[Rapier]

Also, I believe Shin is tunneling agaisnt me too hard. He quoted an entire post with questions toward other players, yet he made sure to quote it all and reply. Not to mention he is also distorting my words regarding Lucy, Mancer and my reasons to vote Sho. If he believes my reasons to vote Sho weren't adamant, then why does he believe I'm scum that voted him to get towncred? I only voted him by the end, and he was the biggest wagon, who did he expect me to vote? Even so, I find my reasons to vote Sho legit, and I'm glad our gambit gave out results.

##Vote: Shin

[Rapier]

Ugh, quadruple post. Sorry, I promise I'll stop for now!

It's possible to vote for somebody who you think is scummy, but still be a sheep about it, if you just say the same thing everyone else said when they voted (perhaps echoing is a more accurate term for what I meant?) I could have gone for a new angle, but without any belief in it, I would have looked like I was grasping for an excuse not to echo the others on the wagon.

I really dislike this comment. Seems like Baldrick was more worried about how he'd look to the other players than worried about scumhunting and going for someone he finds scum. Now, this is terrible.

[Xinnidy]

Apologies for being out for so long lately, my head is full of graphs, I just couldn't put my head in a lot of things those past 2 days.

But I return to attempt to be helpful! For shore!

I stand by my last post (which was a while ago ._.;;) that the Roleblocker's allignment is not of our concern unless there is some claim that may turn his allignment obvious, there's not much point in using it to speculate stuff now or bring other people to claim stuff by grasping, in my opinion.

Man there's a lot of stuff I skimmed but lessee:

- I see quite a bit stuff that relies on sho's flip yesterday, I won't object, but other lines of thought would be appreciated. I agree with Kay's post #368 in that Sho seemed to be setting up scorri so that paranoid people would try to go after her, and tried to not be the head pusher of her lynch, so I believe it's okay to let her off the hook for now. (but do post whenever you can, scorri! More opinions are always appreciated!)

Now, that's hopefully the only time I bring Sho's flip to the reasoning table for now, I want to focus more on living people content right now.

@Rapier: You're about as out of this game than I am. It's a bad day for soccerland today. :<

Don't give big hints to your role when it's not necessary, if I got what you meant right, that's very counter intuitive.

Your vote on Mancer is... quite a mess. I really hope you have some other scumread that you can build on soon.

And Sho roleclaimed Doc, why are people still mixing those two up?

@SHIN: Y so british.

I'm talking about your previous Doofina vote, it gave me an OMGUS vibe that's hard to ignore. I'm not a fan of Lucy's listpost and I'm pretty sure not many others are, but your reasoning to vote her is about as weak as you claim her reads to be. I'd expect you to build a bigger case on her later to justify yourself better, but instead you quickly switch and go for superblunderingman Rapier? I do think this is worth questioning more, I don't have the best wording and focus right now, but I think you don't make enough sense.

##Vote: Shin

I want to hear a better reasoning to why you voted Lucina, though I can wait to see what other people think of this debate with Rapier for now.

I see people with thoughts on Mancer and it does hold some good merit. Though I think it's more prudent to wait right now. Or it can be just me trying to pull this game aside and get done with this post. My motivation is terrible and I should get it fixed asap.

[Shin]

Yo, my main reason to go after Rapier was that I felt that his post had a few too many flaws. With a massive post like that, it's hard not to point it out. I'm not distorting your words Rapier, you're contradicting yourself. Slightly scummy read on Sho = not entirely sure in my eyes, most uncool! Also, you're horribly wrong about Loocina's voting, she went BBM then Mancer. That's 2 people.

Xinn, I'll give you my bodacious reasoning. Loocy pops out of nowhere, giving a weak list of her feelings and then says that she wouldn't mind see two people lynched. All her scumreads are about people who haven't posted that much, thus being her reason against them. Her two preferred lynches are about people she hasn't mentioned at all until the post before. I feel that she needs to some explaining before she can start recommending lynches... one line doesn't cut it.

Also;

##Unvote: Loocina

##StillFullofPlotHoles: Rapier

Silly me!

[scorri]

Ok. I am going to try and get back into this game, but I can promise anything.

Some things that stand out

-Rapier is all over the place, but I don't find it especially scummy actually. I'm of a similar mind that we should be wary of Mancer, and I don't really see anything scummy about that. Just because someone claims something doesn't mean we can 100%take that at face value.

-I'm actually going to agree with Xinnidy here. Lucina came in and gave what, to be fair, was a relatively weak post, but that in and of itself is not reason to vote her. Her giving people she'd want to lynch is a perfectly valid thing to do and something most people will do actually. This, combined with the sudden vote hop to Rapier, make me ok with putting my vote here for now.

##Vote:Shin

I'll be trying to reread, but I can't promise anything. Sorry guys.

[Rapier]

@Rapier: You're about as out of this game than I am. It's a bad day for soccerland today. :<

Don't give big hints to your role when it's not necessary, if I got what you meant right, that's very counter intuitive.

Your vote on Mancer is... quite a mess. I really hope you have some other scumread that you can build on soon.

And Sho roleclaimed Doc, why are people still mixing those two up?

Wait what, I said Mancer claimed Doc. I voted Mancer before because I was thinking like a derp. Also, I understand how bad it is since we both live in Brazil. I'll give you some credit for that. =P

Also, I didn't even know Shin had voted Loocy. Such a sudden switch is terrible, based on the fact that he voted me for the same reasons he suspected me before voting, so there was nothing new that gave him a motive to switch.

Yo, my main reason to go after Rapier was that I felt that his post had a few too many flaws. With a massive post like that, it's hard not to point it out. I'm not distorting your words Rapier, you're contradicting yourself. Slightly scummy read on Sho = not entirely sure in my eyes, most uncool! Also, you're horribly wrong about Loocina's voting, she went BBM then Mancer. That's 2 people.

I admit I just pressed CTRL+F to find if I said 'slightly scummy read' in my massive post. Nothing came up, only yours and my quote. I think you might want to review your battle tactics, Shin, cause you can't just send Sigurd on the frontlines on Mafia! He'll just get killed, because on Soviet Russia Mafia, this bluntness gets him killed!

I ask you, Mr. Phoenix Wright, where did the defendant say "my slightly scummy read on Sho"? Failure to do so will result in a penalty. Or not, just saying.

[Shin]

He said it right here. What made me switch was Lucina's absence and your massive post. You might want to check your posts. Before your massive post, you hadn't actually ever voted Mancer, which you said you had. You also said that you suspected Lucina, without ever giving any reasons for.

[Elieson]

Rapier needs to stop with drafting and discussing the same two units over and over again.

Does nobody else see the link between Baldricks' Dual Guard over Sho and the now flipped scum!Sho? I'll reply to you specifically, later.

Also maybe I'm coming off as a bit dim to you all, but I'm just not seeing this Rapier case as anything solid. I'd rather see Rapier fighting Cavalry, not meta arguments and assaults on his typical Derp ways.

Also it seems like everyone participating that's alive, has posted, and not a single claim of being stricken by a rogue critical hit makes my mind wander a bit. I'm back to contemplating the lack of a death, but it's probably a low mov thought at this point.

However, to an actual point: An Est-archetype that needs to skip deployment looks like Doofina, who's A-rank in Doofery means little else other than pointing fingers at doing about as much as you have yourself. Ye Oldé Double Standard, if I do say so myself, and that's definitely a Nono (or a Nowi, depending on what you prefer to call it). Your list doesn't do much to benefit your low-tier scumHunting, and what baffles me more is your desperate suggestion that another doc exists and was successful in protecting WHILE IN THE SAME POST agreeing with the Masshook.

As I'm still at work and cannot ISO properly until I return home, I'll pursue my next strongest scumread.

##SoftReset (Unvote)

##SeigeTomeVote-Adept-CritVote Doofina

[CT075]

JBCWK (2): Eclipse, Mancer

Rapier (4): BBM, Baldrick, JB, Shin

Shin (4): Rapier, Xinnidy, Scorri, Shinori

Lucina (1): Elieson

With 15 players alive, 5 votes are needed to lynch and 10 votes are needed to hammer. You have 1 day, 3 hours and 40 minutes left in the phase.

Edited March 6, 2013 by CT075

[Shinori]

Cam I'm voting Shin. I'm pretty sure I unvoted BBM as well.

Just in case:

##Unvote:

##Vote: Shin

@Kay: The only thing about shin being a "Noob" Is compare his style of posts in this game compared to say his ToS game or his other games that he has played in. The majority of his posts have gone back before how he was in ToS and back to what he was like in Trainwreck mafia.

Rapiers vote on mancer confused me...

[BBM]

I didn't vote Sho because a lot of people were doing so for the same motive as I. I wouldn't be helping by voting him. Hence why I decided to prod Lucy a bit.

Also, while I admired Mancer's argument that we shouldn't focus only in one target and votepark, I know he has been voting a lot of people recently, based on weak reads, jumping all over the place. Perhaps he is twisting his words pretty badly, or maybe he is hypocritical scum. Either way, now I feel that lynching him will be productive, as we can check those who he voted recklessly (if he'd flip scum), and his slips don't help his case either. He's been reacting a lot to people like JB and BBM especially, something I don't like since the only excuse he's got is that BBM is sheeping him and JB is his scumbuddy/voteparking him.

But he claimed Doctor. I'm not that stupid to lose something like that so soon.

So, I'm back to my slight scummy read, Sho, for not contributing with anything and just saying "hey guys I can't do shit on D1 except appeal to PR meta, sorry".

##Vote: Sho

I don't think you understood my point exactly, Rapier. I said that you focused this post mostly on analyzing Mancer and suggesting why we should lynch him, and then ending it with "but he's Doc so we shouldn't", which is fine, except it basically makes your Mancer analysis useless, if you don't think he should be lynched due to the claim. And that ties into my point that you didn't really have much content on D1. I think your D2 content against Shin is more of an effort but it's still bad. You accuse Shin of replying to all of your post, which makes no sense entirely, for one thing, and your argument that he's twisting your words feels like a thinly veiled OMGUS to me, although maybe it's because I agree with his points against you. You also didn't respond to the main body of my case that I made later, despite posting all those walls of text.

[MancerNecro]

Again with all the activity late at night while I'm asleep. This is getting a little exasperating, guys.

On the other hand, I find that Rapier's post has been very fidgety. Him talking about not wanting to lynch or him nor having voted or tried to get me (the Doc claim) lynch was almost essentially moot due to the fact that he had voted me right after posting that huge chunk of text.

Secondly, while Rapier has posted a lot (4 times), I feel that his posts go round and round a lot and do not really contribute to discussion at all.

Regarding my vote on JB, it's not there for a weak reason. I find him scummy and want him to explain his actions which he hss failed to do sufficiently well (to me, anyway). I'm confident that JB will flip scum because that's the way he seems to play when he's scum.

[BBM]

If I understood Rapier's posts correctly, he looked at Mancer's posts, thought they were scummy, voted him, and then realized later that he'd claimed Doc, and unvoted.

Main arguments against Shin, if I'm reading them correctly, seem to be a lack of content. Again, maybe it's because I agree with his Rapier points, but I feel like his last few posts were a lot better in terms of that. I don't remember much from Trainwreck (or ToS for that matter), but Shin's last few posts read better to me than what I remember ofhis content in either of those games.

[Shinori]

You don't find it weird that after I mention trainwreck he suddenly makes a jump to make a few posts with scum hunting? You don't find it weird that he suddenly jumped up in activity from day 1 SHINanigans?

From train wreck post game, quoted from Elie:

Case on Shin, Besides being afk.

"Guys, I'm not gonna vote because my vote is negative".

"Guys, I live in a different time zone, and stuff".

"Guys, I'm legit confused".

THAT IS WHAT I HAD TO WORK WITH, AND YOU SAY WE HAD WHAT ACTUAL REASON TO LYNCH THEM?!

See anything similiar?

[BBM]

I'm pretty sure him saying he's confused and British is just a joke... As for his activity suddenly spiking up, it may be that he did something like that in Trainwreck, but are you really going to lynch him because he's putting in more effort? That seems like a bad reason to me.

[Shinori]

So you are basically saying you should ignore early game interactions?

Basically it seems that you are saying "Who cares what happened early game, now he's talking more so let's not worry about it." Yet you obviously don't think about stuff like that because I can mention other similiar situations when someone who was scum didn't do much early game then spiked in activity when under pressure and you definitely pushed to lynch them, as well as other players.

So which is it? When reviewing a person and a case against them do you include the whole game? Or do you only include the parts where they spiked in activity when under pressure?

[Shin]

Oh dear, not groovy. I'm actually saying stuff now because I have to kinda defend myself :P. It also helps that things have kinda clicked, I coasted in my first two games, and died on day one in the third. I admit that I've been rather quiet most of this game, but that's because I was away for much of Thursday, Friday and Saturday due to family reasons.

[Sunwoo]

JBCWK (2): Eclipse, Mancer

Rapier (4): BBM, Baldrick, JB, Shin

Shin (4): Rapier, Xinnidy, Scorri, Shinori

Lucina (1): Elieson

With 15 players alive, 5 votes are needed to lynch and 10 votes are needed to hammer. You have 22 hours and 42 minutes left in the phase.

[Rapier]

Why is BBM voting me if he says he agrees with my poins?

[BBM]

No, I'm not disregarding that his activity only spiked under pressure. But you also have to look at his activity, right? If what he says once he gets prodded is decent, I don't see why the fact that he only produced content under pressure makes him scum by itself. You have to look at his activity as a whole, and while his D1 and early D2 is admittedly not great, I think his recent posts have been better.

Also, you say that his play is more like Trainwreck and less like ToS, but tbh, his D1 and ED2 play felt like the both of them- I didn't see much of a difference between his ToS and Trainwreck play.

[BBM]

Why is BBM voting me if he says he agrees with my poins?

? I'm pretty sure I never said I agreed with your points, and if I did, it might have been one or two isolated cases, I said I agreed with Shin's points against you.

[Rapier]

... Oh, right, I read it wrong. At least you got my reasoning right.

[Shinori]

And I never said that his more recent posts aren't better.

That doesn't change the fact that his early play was terrible. I am looking at it as a whole and I didn't plan on just changing my thoughts because he made a few better posts when under pressure.

##Unvote:

Still FoS though.

Actually would like Baldrick to come post a bit more that isn't just him defending himself. His most recent post was mainly him defending himself from elie. Then a post where he basically hinted at suspicions against shin. Then a post where he said he was waiting to hear Elie's full argument. Actually looking over his posts from this day he hasn't really bothered scum hunting at all. He vote parked on rapier with reasoning that could have been stronger and hasn't scum hunted since. SO BACK TO THIS I GO.

##Vote: Baldrick