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[Armagon]

1 hour ago, Shrimperor said:

@ArmagonJo our Xenoxpert.

So decided to take a Sneak peek at XC1 as it will be most likely my next game. Definetly a Start that got my intention from the Story angle.

Confused a bit about the Combat though

So i auto attack whenever i am near an enemy, right? So the Combat boils down to evading & using Arts at the right time? And Arts have a certain down time?

Pretty much. A bit later on, Visions and Chain Attacks will also become a part of the combat but yeah, the key to combat is using Arts at the proper position and time. Talent Arts (the big Art in the center of the pallet) work a bit differently in that, if i remember correctly, they fill up by landing Arts. There's two Talent Arts that are the exception but you don't have to worry about that right now.  Evasion is RNG dependent but it also depends on the kind of attack. 

The other big thing to keep in mind is that, there's a level penalty system where if you're at least five levels lower than an enemy, your hit-rate and damage output will decrease while the opposite happens to the enemy. You can also take advantage of this system if the enemy is at least five levels lower than you. Does it sound like a bad mechanic? Because it is and that's why it's never been seen in a Xenoblade game since.

Edited August 28, 2019 by Armagon

[Interdimensional Observer]

19 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Talent Arts (the big Art in the center of the pallet) work a bit differently in that, if i remember correctly, they fill up by landing Arts.

It differs I think. For Sharla is Arts usage, and I'd say Melia too. But I recall giving Shulk Glory Gauntlets for Haste V and a Double Attack gem at the end of the game and getting a lot more Monado Arts in. I think he is auto attacks, and probably some or all of the rest. Maybe 16 auto attacks for a full refill? I thought it took four Double Attack-trigged autos to max his gauge from empty. Although I could be confusing that with the skill on his 5th Skill Tree that gives a full Talent Art gauge refill every time a Vision happens.

 

1 hour ago, Shrimperor said:

So i auto attack whenever i am near an enemy, right? So the Combat boils down to evading & using Arts at the right time? And Arts have a certain down time?

The exact cooldown is shown in the Arts menu, and using AP to upgrade Arts will decrease the cooldown, which does speed up gameplay a bit over time. Everyone eventually gets 16 Arts + their Talent Art, but can have only 8 Arts on their active combat palette at any time.

The lone exception is Shulk, who gets only 8 Arts, but his Talent Art contains several different options, numbering 8 in total (two of which are optional), so he actually has just as many Arts as anyone else.

 

 

 

And on XC note, somebody told me I can make a second account on my Wii U to have a second save file without having to delete my first for XCX. I'm totally going to run through it again now! Experience will make allllll the difference with this game. Now do I pick Commando-Partisan Eagle or Enforcer-Psycorruptor? 

Edited August 28, 2019 by Interdimensional Observer

[Nobody]

Melia is the most fun character to play as

[Armagon]

4 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

For Sharla is Arts usage, and I'd say Melia too

Yeah, those are the only two cases of Talent Arts by using Arts as opposed to landing them. They also operate differently. Shulk's Talent is a special 8-in-1 but it's still filled up like normal Talents. Sharla's is activated automatically upon the Talent Gauge being filled up (not a good thing since it renders her temporarily immobile) and Melia's can actually be used whenever as long as she has summoned Ethers, though it's more powerful if the Talent has been filled up. 

 

4 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

The lone exception is Shulk, who gets only 8 Arts, but his Talent Art contains several different options, numbering 8 in total (two of which are optional), so he actually has just as many Arts as anyone else.

It's also worth noting that by default, Shulk's Talent Art fills up faster than any other Talent Art in the game, probably because it's so important.

[DragonFlames]

Note to self: Don't bring up politics.

@NobodyIn order to clear up what is perhaps a misunderstanding: I wasn't specifically blaming you or your country for anything. I was voicing my distaste about environmental politics at large and how money > everything else in the eyes of the big shots. That's all.

Edited August 28, 2019 by DragonFlames
too much stupid stuff

[Strullemia]

Pillars of Eternity port for the switch is awful when it comes to bugs. The hell were they thinking releasing this game.

Game gets unplayable at certain points. I'll just drop it for now till we get a patch and play some 3H or Yugioh.

[Shrimpica]

7 hours ago, Starman said:

also cant believe LtPW was invaded by nep

Nepu Nepu Nepu, NEPU!

7 hours ago, Armagon said:

The other big thing to keep in mind is that, there's a level penalty system where if you're at least five levels lower than an enemy, your hit-rate and damage output will decrease while the opposite happens to the enemy. You can also take advantage of this system if the enemy is at least five levels lower than you. Does it sound like a bad mechanic? Because it is and that's why it's never been seen in a Xenoblade game since.

OOF. I hope despite that i don't need to grind, because i hate grinding. Is defeating every enemy on my way once enough?

 

7 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

which does speed up gameplay a bit over time

good!

Faster = Better 😄

7 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

The lone exception is Shulk, who gets only 8 Arts

The ones from smash?

 

Thanks for answering my Questions btw, you all^^

 

1 hour ago, DragonFlames said:

I was voicing my distaste about environmental politics at large and how money > everything else in the eyes of the big shots. That's all.

and how these kind of people are in control everywhere in the world atm. From West to East, from North to South <.<

1 hour ago, DragonFlames said:

Note to self: Don't bring up politics.

Politic discussions can be fun if it doesn't go toxic.

[Nobody]

3 hours ago, DragonFlames said:

Note to self: Don't bring up politics.

@NobodyIn order to clear up what is perhaps a misunderstanding: I wasn't specifically blaming you or your country for anything. I was voicing my distaste about environmental politics at large and how money > everything else in the eyes of the big shots. That's all.

I want to apologize, i understand what you mean, it's just that i have a idiotic tendency of disagreeing with everyone just because sometimes. I don't get me.

[Tryhard]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49493632

can we discuss my clown country instead

[Shrimpica]

That's peak democracy at work. Suspending Parliament to restore it's sovereignty.

What's this, Monty Python?

@Nobody

 I would like to apologize as well in case I came off as aggressive. I know we over here have a lot to do when it comes to these policies, but whataboutism does trigger me sometimes xD

[DragonFlames]

46 minutes ago, Nobody said:

I want to apologize, i understand what you mean, it's just that i have a idiotic tendency of disagreeing with everyone just because sometimes. I don't get me.

It's alright. Sometimes, I get irrationally heated about stuff, too, especially when it comes to politics and such.
No harm done!

[Armagon]

4 hours ago, Shrimperor said:

OOF. I hope despite that i don't need to grind, because i hate grinding. Is defeating every enemy on my way once enough?

Well you can't defeat every enemy on the map the first time and that's because not every enemy is scaled. To clarify, as you progress through the game, you'll encounter higher level enemies but you should be at high enough levels by the time you reach. Later areas have stronger enemies. You know, typical JRPG stuff. Except this is not 100% the case in Xenoblade games. Most areas will have some enemies much higher leveled than anything else on the map and most likely, much higher leveled than you. Sometimes they're Unique Monsters (basically optional bosses) other times, it's just certain enemies (and they'll usually be off the beaten path though some can be in plain sight). The most famous of these is the Territorial Rotbart, a Unique Monster that has appeared in every Xenoblade game (minus Torna) as a Lv.80 monster in an area where the majority of the enemies are around Lv.10-15. It's famous because sometimes new players would be battling regular enemies and then they hear the electric guitars and that's the last thing they hear before the Lv.80 giant gorrilla oneshots them because they got within range of it. So if you see enemies like these, don't engage it in battle. Just avoid it for now.

Anyway as for grinding, there are a few spikes but for the most part, as long as you're regularly doing quests, exploring and just generally not running from battles you can handle, you shouldn't have to grind. Also there's no punishment for losing. Losing=back at the last Landmark you passed.

Back to that level penalty thing, there is a color code for it. When you lock on to an enemy to see it's level, the box will be either black, blue, grey, yellow or red. Black means it's at least 6 levels lower than you (the penalties are at their highest effect at 6 levels or higher), blue means the enemy is 3-5 levels lower than you, grey means you and the enemy are about 0-2 levels in difference, yellow means the enemy is 3-5 levels higher than you and red means the enemy is at least 6 levels higher than you.

5 hours ago, Shrimperor said:

Thanks for answering my Questions btw, you all^^

No problem! Always happy to anwser any Xeno-related questions.

[Interdimensional Observer]

5 hours ago, Shrimperor said:

The ones from smash?

Backslash and Air Slash are actual Arts of his. And Buster, Speed, and Armor are actual Monado Arts. Smash and Jump however are not. The Vision special in Smash is a reworking something that isn't an Art, but is nonetheless a signature of Shulk.

 

5 hours ago, Shrimperor said:

OOF. I hope despite that i don't need to grind, because i hate grinding. Is defeating every enemy on my way once enough?

 

Completing sidequests of any kind gives EXP too. There are a bazillion of them (too many unfortunately >_>). But unless you like a little world/NPC building, you don't have to complete them all. Although the two unlockable Monado Arts and all of the 4th and 5th Skill Trees require a certain level of "Area Affinity", which increases by completing quests.

Fortunately, although Monado Armor is kinda broken (70% physical and ether damage reduction for a time on everyone when maxed), you don't need either Monado Art or the extra Skill Trees to complete the game. Not to mention the 5ths all come really late, and some require being much stronger than is needed for the final boss to unlock (but I wanna say Shulk, Dunban, and Sharla have easy-to-get 5ths). Monado Armor if you want it is fairly quick to grab, but that comes more than halfway in, so don't worry about it for a lonnng time.

Edited August 28, 2019 by Interdimensional Observer

[Strullemia]

3 hours ago, Tryhard said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49493632

can we discuss my clown country instead

And yet there's still some Brexiteers who defend the guy because he's going for the 'no deal'.

But hey man if it's any consolation the majority of countries seem to take the stupid pill in some way or another. We'll eventually all be clown countries together!

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Saying no deal:

 

[Starman]

8 hours ago, Shrimperor said:

Nepu Nepu Nepu, NEPU!

OOF. I hope despite that i don't need to grind, because i hate grinding. Is defeating every enemy on my way once enough?

Faster = Better 😄

Thanks for answering my Questions btw, you all^^

Politic discussions can be fun if it doesn't go toxic.

hate how i had to think of which idle animation this was quoting

nah its more to keep in mind because while traveling there are some hyper aggressive overlevelled mobs that can instantly kill you if you're even sneeze the wrong way

thats not what she said...
*flails self*

np, always enjoy trying to help someone

so not twitter, ok

[Shrimpica]

3 hours ago, Armagon said:

red means the enemy is at least 6 levels higher than you.

avoid red enemies, got it

3 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

But unless you like a little world/NPC building

I play Trails xD

25 minutes ago, Starman said:

so not twitter, ok

or facebook. Or youtube
Or any super big site really

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

I might have screwed up my Black Eagles run by not reaching B support with Edelgard before chapter 11.

At least however I could recruit all the people I wanted. 

[Acacia Sgt]

Hahaha, In My Dream is my newest earworm, now.

Hmm, the entire series is in Youtube... the Castillian dub. I'll take it.

---

Oh lol, this fanart.

Edited August 29, 2019 by Acacia Sgt

[Tryhard]

https://www.reddit.com/r/fireemblem/comments/cwyh7l/map_design_doesnt_matter/

agree with most of this

[Interdimensional Observer]

I can agree with some of what is generally said there.

But, even if CQ becomes quick and easy with extreme planning, that doesn't mean the map design is bad.

All difficulty in video games boils down to the following.:

1. Reflexes
2. Knowledge and Wisdom
3. Luck

Even intense things like F-Zero X/GX and fighting games are just these factors. Knowledge becomes memorization of racetracks/moves, wisdom becomes when you boost/what you string into combos-what is safe for you to use-what you punish your opponent for using. Then you improve your reflexes to make that wisdom work in practice.

FE due to its gameplay nature is devoid of the first factor. Leaving only the other two to consider, and the last cannot be entirely controlled. Knowledge is the accumulation of information, Wisdom is the application of that information, hence they two sides of the same thing. 

The challenge therefore of Conquest comes down to acquiring knowledge, and then wisely applying it. What separates the "expert" player from a player who finds CQ hard, is how much knowledge they have and how wisely they apply it. This said, you have to be devoted to acquire that knowledge and gleam what it means.

-The "expert" also keeps an open mind about playstyle and who they are willing to use to achieve their goals, no favoritism based on personality, or at least none that interferes with the ultimate objective.

 

Map design rarely heavily entices the player when it's good, it is more the tediously bad examples which tend to stick in player consciousnesses. And, FEs tend to have average map design when you look at it on chapter-by-chapter basis.

I did this chapter-by-chapter GBA FE breakdown to prove my point:

FE6:

Spoiler

• 1- A standard bandit chapter, a bit tough on your starting team.
• 2- I'd say it's good.
• 3- First indoors, I thought it was okay.
• 4- At first this looked intimidating, but it wasn't bad. Challenge was fine. Ordinary.
• 5- I forget, was there anything remarkable about this map?
• 6- Bad. Too many doors to open, too many chests for just one Thief. Some doors are just traps with enemies behind them.
• 7- Nefarious on Hard I hear. And even on Normal, I could see how this map is challenging. In a bad way maybe, for being too open.
• 8- First map in FE6 to be just too big. It could use fewer folds at the start, there are one too many before you get to the breakable wall, it just favors mounted units.
• 8x- Setting aside the boss, no reinforcements and no significant threats from what I recall, made this an unremarkable map.
• 9- On Normal, I felt the game was rather restrained with the enemies to account for the Fog of War. Maybe the area around the two northeast villages was tricky, as is the boss, but that is about it.
• 10 Bartre- It was fine, barring the notion of getting the Orion's Bolt and Elysian Whip, since I didn't know where Tate and Klein would spawn.
• 11 Bartre- Rather drab, deal with the Berserker and his companions to the north and that is cleared up. The rest of the map in south is basic.
• 12- I can't remember much, other than this being tighter on the turn count than I expected.
• 12x- FoW, too many chests, some dangerous enemies up in the northeast. I don't recall liking this map very much.
• 13- I think I liked this map? The northern bridge is unneeded however, and Perceval is nearly impossible to recruit in this battle.
• 14- EVIL!
• 14x- Why the two Boltings?! Wasn't one enough? And if you don't use many fliers, I found them all weak except for Melady, and if you don't plow ahead, this map will screw you by taking forever to complete. The floor tiles at the start will eventually all vanish, and if your van is stuck in water with no land to walk to, you'll have to wait a bazillion turns until the floor reappears. I dislike this one very much.
• 15- Maybe a little too big, but otherwise it's unremarkable.
• 16- I don't remember too much of this map. Other than Hugh moving in the wrong direction, which forced me to play cat and mouse will him for a long time. And Douglas is so inelegant to have to deal with. The only effective way to neutralize him is to surround him with walls and unarmed units.
• 16x- I forget the annoyance level the magic bolts, but its map where you have to to gradually deplete enemy siege tomes before you can advance.
• 17 Sacae- Fog of War initially meant I thought this map would be easier on the enemy front. But I recall running into more Bolting at some point, that wasn't fun. And I let the northeast village get destroyed, the village run in this case is too tight, and not worth it being just an Eclipse. Map might be a bit too big.
• 18 Sacae- The yurt reinforcements are concerning, but I like this actually! This is sorta how Central Asian nomads should be fighting.
• 19 Sacae- I think it was at least average? I might have liked it.
• 20 Sacae- Ballistae, siege, and status in a cramped FoW map. One way is almost door-free, the other is door heavy? I've mixed feelings about this map.
• 20x Sacae- Mixed feelings. I like the multiple seize points, but the traps they spawn if false? Eh...
• 21- A final grand outdoors battle. Not sure, but I guess I can say good, it's a challenge, as a map at this ending point should be.
• 21x- The enemies are okay. The FoW isn't unbearable. The random traps are odd. But THAT trap makes me wish it involved bunny suits.
• 22- A big final indoor map. The fights to the switches are fair, but the throne room is a bit devilish.
• 23- I guess I'd call this good?
• 24- Bad, since it's all about just using up the Divine Weapons against powerful Manaketes. And too many Roy seizes. And then it's a joke of a fight in Idunn.

FE7:

Spoiler

Lyn Mode- Tutorial!/Not Counting It/Admitting Its Bad

 

Using Hector Mode numbering in most cases:

• Eliwood 11- Not bad for a first map. About what you'd expect.
• Hector 11- A bit questionable that it only gives you two units, a Thief and a bulky Axe unit.
• 12- Either way, it works as a map for me. Can be more difficult if you don't rush to the chokepoint mountain as I always do.
• 13- Eh, only real issue is recruiting Guy.
• 13x- Fog of War on a fair Defend. Not sending Marcus or Oswin northwest and it can be difficult to go northwest and kill the boss, but otherwise not hard, if not quite braindead easy either.
• 14- Decent. Erik moves.
• 15- I forget how this small and short Defend goes. Not hard to Defend, but the map isn't in any way a drag I recall.
• 16- Noble Lady of Caelin, I think its good. Lyn's group of four has no real enemies to contend with, but I like the big mess of forests in the middle, even skipping them for a cross-mountain approach is possible.
• 17- Attention! Marcus, Sain, Kent, Lowen! Lady Priscilla will be galloping forward as far she can every turn without regard for her life. She must reach her brother before he begins the massacre of three Caelin soldiers whose survival are necessary for this March's future. If Lady Priscilla should die, the vests you are wearing will immediately self-destruct! Failure is not an option! And whichever of you isn't doing any fighting will have to drag Matthew from the lower chest room to the north, the Crests are mandatory!
  • My recollection of this map. A cavalry rush with an annoying dragging of a thief.
• 17x- Has an easy way of doing things that takes denies good enemy drops, and has a harder one that gives those drops and EXP. I like it.
• 18- A Survive, which isn't hard if you don't try to kill the boss. But this is the first ship battle since FE2, and overall I like it.
• 19- Fog of War and an okay challenge.
• 19x- Made easy by virtue of Kishuna, different, but not bad.
• 19xx- Annoying to unlock, but the map I don't recall being bad.
• 20- Good I'd say, unless you want to visit both Secret Shops, that slows things a bit at the end. Much of the map I don't think is necessary to see, Darin is rather quick to be reached.
• 21- Fog of War and a decent challenge, but I'd for some reason hesitate to call this a good map.
• 22- Like 95% of Defends, defending is easy, but I like the map's design. 
• 23- The desert chapter. Bearable on Normal. Hector Hard? Nope, the Fog was a step too far.
• 23x- Fun and different, barring the Luna Druids, and Hector Hard status staffs against two separate army groups, despite having only one Restore available at this point.
• 24 Lloyd- Easy for Eliwood, but Fog of War and moving Light Brand Lloyd? This map is punishment, albeit quick if you know what to do, on Hector Mode.
• 24 Linus- I like this map, despite being maybe a little too big shoving Linus in that distant corner.
• 25- The enemy is divided into monoclass groups, that always makes things easier when they aren't all brokenly strong, and they aren't here. The triple seize objective is fun.
• 26- A Survive, so easy, and pretty boring. You do have to find a way to bait Vaida for shopping on Hector Mode, and the triple divide of the army was nice idea, if not meaningful in practice.
• 27 Kenneth- Simple, a little slowed by the snow, but okay. 
• 27 Jerme- Takes much longer with the change to a Rout and the map being much more open and scattered. But it might be better designed, I forget.
• 28- Battle Before Dawn. Jaffar might die, Zephiel too. Maybe you waltz accidentally into Ursula's range, or the FoW gets you in another way. This map is infamous.
• 28x- Vanishing bridges slows this map a lot, and adds frustrations. Unless you happen to have some good fliers and or Dart and Hawkeye. Bad? I guess.
• 29- A big grand open melee of physical units on Normal, on HHM, it's a memorable magic fest. I'd call it decent.
• Valorous Roland- Not a terrible idea having Eliwood go it alone in the middle, but with the menacing boss Georg that can move on him is a blow against that idea. And has lava tiles. I'd rank it lowly.
• The Berserker- Chests, more open, poison walls, fewer deployable units. Since Hector doesn't have to go through what Eliwood does, I'd rank this slightly higher, but it still isn't good.
• 30- Easy peasy lemon squeezy. Archers abound, and their arrows hit for so little, I bare my nether regions against them without fear of pain. I'd call this a real bad map, it exemplifies FE7's weaknesses, 1-2 range is too good for the player, and enemies are much too weak.
• 30x- Dedicated shopping chapter, and Karla the terribly under par. Not good, just weird.
• 31- A grand big open battle, is it worthy of being the penultimate? Enemies are still one too many unpromoted! But I kinda like this?
• 31x- Okay on Hector Normal. But Boundless Berserker Beefcakes on HHM is nasty!
• Final- Not a bad idea, quality over quantity. Athos diminishes the difficulty however. And the final boss is dull. 

FE8:

Spoiler

• Prologue- Quick and small tutorial.
• 1- More tutorial, more quick, more small, nothing special.
• 2- I think it's fine.
• 3- First indoors map, it's fine.
• 4- First monsters map, it's fine.
• 5- Joshua's recruitment is tricky, and its something of a challenging village rush. But the difficulty on Hard for this fight is fairly balanced.
• 5x- Too big, and too slow or dependent on Orson. I'd eat Kyle's right kidney for a staff unit here. 
• 6- First FoW. Very open, rush to protect the civilians. Not sure if it is bad or good, but my gut says bad.
• 7- It's average.
• 8- It's a trap! And maybe a little fun.
• 9 Eirika- A village rush on a great big map, unless you have Seth end things prematurely via a ferrying from Vanessa. I don't like its size, but the northern initial corridor up until you save that most challenging village is a good and fair fight.
• 10 Eirika- Other than Gerik maybe getting Sleeped before he recruits Marisa, I find this map fun.
• 11 Eirika- A forgettable FoW map on the easier side.
• 12 Eirika- Relies on enemies approaching from the peaks where you cannot reach them with most units, an okay idea. A little big, and I'd say it's dull.
• 13 Eirika- A good fight for survival, unless you kill the boss early. When Pablo shows it gets mean.
• 14 Eirika- A poor indoor map, with a wily runaway Rennac, and a dodgy boss.
• 9 Ephraim- I like it.
• 10 Ephraim- A good bit of challenge getting Cormag, and overall a tight map.
• 11 Ephraim- The Deathgoyle shows up too soon for a cruel backstab, and the middle ship is too much "death by a thousand cuts".
• 12 Ephraim- Maybe a little easy, but I'd call it fine.
• 13 Ephraim- Selena with Bolting right in the middle and some village rushing on the sides. Might be a little unfair, but I think it leans on being good.
• 14 Ephraim- Status Staffs might drag down some, but I like this map. A fair challenge.
• 15- Ephraim's version is better. A desert map that isn't too sandy, FE's best in this category. I actually like it, and only wish Valter moved out on Hard for maximum devilishness.
• 16- This map is good, it isn't too far to the throne, and the push is easy. Promoted enemies on Hard are strong. But then those two terrible siege tomes show up and the map suddenly becomes unexpectedly hard to avoid deaths on because those siege tomes have so much map coverage, they reverse player momentum.
• 17- For the first few turns, the map can be tight-ish. But then it loosens up into an EXP fest, if you don't opt to just land a quick kill on Lyon. Average.
• 18- A big, fun, EXP run to smash the Gorgon Eggs! I like this map, but if you don't use plenty o' powerful mounted units, it will be much harder. Can I call this good?
• 19- The last challenging chapter. If you don't blitz to Riev, the enemy reinforcements in the southwest can certainly kill someone. You've Mage Knights, Rangers, Swordmasters, Paladins and Great Knights, all weapon types are covered. I'd call this good.
• 20- Big, many reinforcements, but the enemies barring selective ones- Morva, Riev, the Gorgons, any Arch Mogalls with Shadowshot- should be considered weak by this point. I'd consider this below average.
• 21- An unspectacular final battle. Nothing bad, just nothing outstanding for a final fight.

-I should do more of these.

[Acacia Sgt]

I'd say, never really cared much when it comes to map design.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

I never really cared for the story honestly. 

As for map design, I do care, though. 

This is why I like Conquest and FE10 (yes there are still a lot of people who dislike FE10's story) and dislike FE6 and 13. (FE6 had a few good maps, but the majority was mediocre)   

Edited August 29, 2019 by Lysithea

[Nobody]

2 hours ago, Tryhard said:

https://www.reddit.com/r/fireemblem/comments/cwyh7l/map_design_doesnt_matter/

agree with most of this

While I don't necessarily completely agree with this, i think this is why i feel Awakening (and tbh Radiant Dawn after part 1) plays so much worse than other games with bad maps such as Echoes, since it fails to engage the player and the solution to beating it is just dragging an overpowered character to the middle of the enemy line so they can kill themselves on EP, while on other games with simple maps such as Echoes or even Three Houses, it feels like there's more of a player input in the actions taken.

Edited August 29, 2019 by Nobody

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Now that I am thinking about it, I forgot Echoes exists. This has actually the worst map design in the series. A map with three weak bosses is what I hardly would call an exciting map. And a map where you have to sneak around through a one tile path and you become an easy target of long range magic and bows is not something which makes me fun to me. 

As for FE13 it is rather that this game has only rout or defeat boss missions, than that the map design is bad. Honestly I hardly can remember its maps. 

Edited August 29, 2019 by Lysithea