Cheating Tips

[Zanarkin]

You know there exists people that are quite during class, don't even say a word, and still get 100s. And not every single one is a cheater because they actually know the material. I for one don't tend to answer many questions in class and still do very well on tests.

[Florete]

Not doing perfect also avoids getting attention drawn to you. In many of my middle and high school classes most students would know who the smart people were and there was always more expected of them. Staying just below that keeps you under the radar.

[eclipse]

You might have gotten some slack for what is supposedly a "hard" situation. . .but then. . .

I lol'd hard at the vicious circle and Lux's quote XD

It's plenty obvious that you don't respect teachers. I went to a school that's considered below-average, and even though my high school experiences involved things like my English teachers grading me lower than the AP exam board, I never encountered a teacher so bad that I felt like I had to cheat to do well. I get the feeling this is more of an authority problem than anything.

[Crimson Red]

Nope, actually, I get along with most of my teachers really will. There are always exceptions but generally teachers and I are pretty cool. I've been the favorite student many times, and in terms of being an actual person, I respect them. Their teaching skills, however, no, I can't bring myself to respect skills that are lacking--respect should be earned from esteemed effort or success or something else worthy. So... yes and no. XD

And also, your experiences and my experiences are different. That's the point of this topic, to share said experiences. XD

[Phoenix Wright]

The mindset in Asia is that it doesn't matter what kind of teacher you have, the fault is on you if you don't pass. I've noticed that here in America (because both my parents are substitute teachers due to circumstances of the economy and my aunt is an actual high school teacher) that they blame the TEACHER if students don't pass.

I think both should be blamed. Blaming the student or the teacher individually is quite stupid.

Some people need teachers. That's what they're for.

[dondon151]

I lol'd hard at the vicious circle and Lux's quote XD

Are you lol'ing because it's true?

[eclipse]

Okay. . .here's what my high school was like. . .

English (just about all of them) - Their grading criteria was a mystery to me. Some of the highlights include me writing my own eulogy, having one of my teachers screw up my semester grade, and having the AP board grade me higher than the teachers I had. All I learned from this department is that I really hate essays.

Math - My algebra II teacher was amazing. My trig teacher was so bad that I don't remember much about trig, except for what I attempted to learn on my own. My calc teacher worked us hard. The teachers went on strike before the AP exam, so the entire calc class met at a cafe to go over homework.

Social Studies - I remember nothing from my social studies classes before my senior year, and that's very bad. In my senior year, I had psychology, and my teacher wanted to run an AP class, but due to the way this school was set up, it was impossible. Her words? "Well, maybe you can't take the test, but I'm gonna run this like an AP class." I had to write pages of notes to turn in. Thanks to the notes she made us take in class, I learned how to get through college.

Science - My memories of this department include no one in the AP chemistry class getting above a 3, the biology teacher leaving halfway through the class due to maternity leave, another teacher who decided to give out free blood typing tests (which I, um, declined), and a physics teacher who let us burn stuff down. Oh, and a science fair, where I was allowed to show that the forks in the school cafeteria were disgusting. In terms of learning, I learned the least from physics, but I figured that if I couldn't understand the material, then I probably wasn't trying hard enough. Even though my chemistry teacher wasn't sure how to teach, I read things until I felt I knew what the general principles behind them were (which made college chemistry a blast).

As for the other stuff. . .

Newswriting - There's teachers, and then there's this guy. He was strict about language (we had to pay every time we swore), strict about how we wrote our things, but when it came time to actually DO stuff, he'd do things like stay late so we could get everything done. I learned a hell of a lot more about writing from him than the rest of my English courses combined.

Art - I can't draw for crap. Even so, she was able to explain things such that I aced that part of the class. Then we moved on to the really fun stuff. One of my classmates swore I was on drugs. I felt the same about him.

Band - The guy I had for the first three years was notorious for being biased towards boys. Even though I was always sitting in a lower chair, I did my best to learn, anyway. As a result, I didn't need to work as hard in college marching band, because I had already learned the basics in high school.

tl;dr - Going to the school I did taught me that I should be the one responsible for my learning. If I have to cheat, then I've failed myself.

[shadowofchaos]

hacking is doing the actual hacking--using a computer and its programs and exploring the unknown using basic logic and problem solving skills with some ultimate end in mind. The hacking I do amounts to that, and little of stuff like math and science. The intelligence that it takes to hack is different than what it takes to learn math and science. I never took a class on how to hack--I just used common sense, trial and error, etc., stuff I already had as a beginner hacker. Then all I had to do was apply those basic concepts to basic programs and data. There was hardly any learning in hacking aside from learning how to use hexadecimal/base 16 numbers. learning math and science requires time, effort, a textbook, learning new concepts that from my perspective had little application of previous concepts--sure there was the occasional geometry and there was basic algebra but most of the stuff I learned was new in those math and science subjects. Former knowledge helped be very little. On the contrary, the level of hacking I did required little former knowledge of anything. The fact that I started hacking when I was 10 accounts for that. I was even stupider than I was when I was 10 then I am now, but I could do things like hack and make a website because I already had the basic skills and applying them was relatively straightforward or could be done through time/trial-and-error.

*snip*

Not to be rude but please pay more attention to the words I say or else you'll start skewing the meaning completely. I didn't say "hacking =/= math and science", you just got rid of 3 words that change the meaning drastically.

Listen to yourself. You're comparing it on a DIFFERENT level. Your justification falls apart.

Hacking =/= learning difficult math and science subjects.

Two words.

Yes.

It's computer science.

In school, you don't have that much time to fuck around--you better learn the content in a short amount of time (we finish chapters in 2 days on average in stat) and you better learn it straight-up, with some sort of textbook and tutorial, little to no "trial and error".

Are you FREAKING kidding me? Math and science problems are learning a processes. You're doing trial and error on your homework. And if you don't get it? Get more practice problems. GOOGLE IT. It's like asking about code. You google documentation. You post to ask a question about your work.

You wouldn't survive in the IB program.

Meh. I'm done with this thread.

It's almost like the FE12 Translation thread

Edited February 17, 2012 by shadowofchaos

[Nanami Touko]

You wouldn't survive in the IB program.

Why would ever want to take it any way?

I took it, and I can tell the lot of you, it's not worth the trouble.

Edited February 17, 2012 by seph1212

[CT075]

Listen to yourself. You're comparing it on a DIFFERENT level. Your justification falls apart.

---

Are you FREAKING kidding me? Math and science problems are learning a processes. You're doing trial and error on your homework. And if you don't get it? Get more practice problems. GOOGLE IT. It's like asking about code. You google documentation. You post to ask a question about your work.

Rey, I hate to backstab you here, but methinks you're kind of setting up a fallacy here.

Hacking at the level of Xled and Nintenlord (hell, even hacking at my level) is completely incomparable to anything below that. Your analogy only works if it's a logical progression - Arithmatic begets Pre-alg which begets Algebra which begets Geo, to Trig, to Calc, etc.

In hacking, it's almost the same. Nightmare helps with FEditor, which introduces concepts like the color limit and tile limitations that help in GBAGE. Also, the modules introduce concepts that are useful in events.

From there, though, the line kind of stops. Eventing and high-level graphics (CGs, spell animations, tile maps, etc) are the highest that you can get in that system. The next step up is ASM which is a whole different ballpark.

Take it from one who tried, failed, and came back after taking a formal programming course. ASM is nothing like hacking at a lower level. Yes, it is a top-tier computer science course, which is why it's insane to try and jump straight in with the basic kind of knowledge you get from doing the other crap.

To tie this all in with your point, hacking at the level of what I've seen Blazer doing - that is, the highest level in this 'branch' (no offense to you, sir, but if you've dabbled in ASM I haven't heard of it) - is only really comparable to say, Trigonometry. Maybe not even. It just doesn't work to say that "Nintenlord's level of hacking = high level computer science so therefore yours must be similar but lower in scale" the same way it works in math. To make the comparison more clear, if Eventing is equivalent to Trig, then ASM is equivalent to Post-Grad level Literary Analysis. It's just incomparable; the learning process stops where it does. Sometimes you can go higher than that level, sometimes you can't. You may never know because the next level is just ridiculous.

That being said, the fact that you (Blazer) consider this easy makes me wonder how difficult math really is for you.

Edited February 17, 2012 by Camtech

[Parrhesia]

To expand on my prior point; if you cheat and you're being graded on a curve, thus actively pushing others down? You're a cunt. Not because grades actually matter at all, because they... don't, but mostly just because of the principle of the thing.

Edited February 17, 2012 by Furetchen

[shadowofchaos]

Rey, I hate to backstab you here, but methinks you're kind of setting up a fallacy here.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I can be an idiot when it comes to stuff, especially when I'm being passionate about something.

I'm about as indoctrinated to "NO CHEATING EVER" as much as Barbatos is to "NO ITEMS EVER"

Cam, you're not required to agree with me on anything. The fact that we're friends is that we respect each other's opinion even when we disagree. And hell WE'RE SUPPOSED to take shots at each other when you see something in the other's argument that is flawed.

With that said, as long as at the end of the day, we can walk away from each other with the same respect before the "battle of words", then we're all good. Blazer has his views, I have mine, and you all have yours.

[Rehab]

Why would ever want to take it any way?

I took it, and I can tell the lot of you, it's not worth the trouble.

I was actually really jealous of the people who took IB. I always wanted to be in the highest track of classes I could be, but for some reason my high school was the only one in the area that just invited people into IB freshman year, no applications or anything. By the time I realized I really would've wanted to get into it through MYP, it was too late, so I just took "honors" classes (which were kind of laughable) and breezed through, and a few AP courses, which I underperformed in. I let my teachers and parents tell me I couldn't handle the work, even though I knew I could understand the material, and now I'm regretting it. My work ethic is terrible, because I've only ever feel like I've been taught to feel shitty and give up when I can't do everything in a minute, and I haven't earned credit for a single college course after a year and a half. Now I couldn't get into any honors programs at my college even if I fit the bill, because they only take freshmen, and I feel like I'm drowning just taking material I probably could've done back in high school, when I wasn't letting my depression and adhd get to me.

[Esau of Isaac]

The mindset in Asia is that it doesn't matter what kind of teacher you have, the fault is on you if you don't pass. I've noticed that here in America (because both my parents are substitute teachers due to circumstances of the economy and my aunt is an actual high school teacher) that they blame the TEACHER if students don't pass.

Asia is a fucking huge continent. What do you even mean by the Asian culture?

I can understand the reasons for WANTING to do it, because like you I have been taught by some really crappy teachers. However, I just somehow can't find it acceptable. You're lying about your knowledge. You're supposed to learn the material. You're supposed to have learned, thought about it, reviewed, and eventually learned to apply it to any of the problems your teacher gives you.

So what? It's irrelevant information. Students have to jump through hoops by going through and attempting to retain information in areas that they aren't interested in, and at times can't. We can all give the "It's fucking simple, just do it," bit. And then we can all get in a big circlejerk and have fun wanking over our own intelligence and ability to memorize. Some have difficulty doing so, however, and obviously look to other means so as to succeed as they wish. One of those methods happens to be cheating.

Also, you never "replace" anything in your brain. It's just that 98% of the human mind is inefficient and forgets stuff rather than doing what a higher intellect should do, remember everything it hears. Point being, the more you use your brain and learn shit, relevant or otherwise, the easier it is to learn more.

How does this even contradict anything I have said? Said person could just as easily be learning information regarding subjects they are actually interested in, rather than those that they are going to forget because of their uselessness.

What gives you the right to have a higher paying job later on in life if you haven't tried as hard as I have, or vice versa?

The same thing that gives Walmart the right to give me lower pay than my manager that I work several times harder than. Working harder doesn't equate to some right to get more. It never has, and it never will.

If I stay up cramming late every night trying to get the best grades ever while you watch football, then go to school and whip out your smartphone to get the answers for yourself, I would say I'm far more deserving of that high grade than you are.

And while you're stewing in your sense of self-worth and getting a terrible grade in shit neither of us cares about, I'll get the bigger number. And hey, since neither of us is going to use it, and both of us are going to forget it, it doesn't matter either way other than that I got that bigger number.

To expand on my prior point; if you cheat and you're being graded on a curve, thus actively pushing others down? You're a cunt. Not because grades actually matter at all, because they... don't, but mostly just because of the principle of the thing.

To be fair, grading on a curve is innately unfair. Most of the time the curve is completely destroyed by one person that has a perfect or very near perfect score as it is.

Edited February 17, 2012 by Esau of Isaac

[Klokinator]

How does this even contradict anything I have said? Said person could just as easily be learning information regarding subjects they are actually interested in, rather than those that they are going to forget because of their uselessness.

Well I don't know about you, but learning useless information is important to me. How many people can you meet at once before you forget their names 1-4 minutes later? I can meet 7 people at once, remember all their names, and greet them by name a week later. Names are a bit of other extraneous useless information, but learning to learn that useless data only helps me in the long run. The more you learn, regardless of "worth" or lack of worth, the more you can learn to learn.

But go ahead and revel in your idiocy. I'll be your boss someday. :V

[Thor Odinson]

I'd rather some person who learns and knows their material destroy the curve legitimately than some dickhead who doesn't wanna learn and just makes it shittier than everyone else. Mind, I don't like standard bell curves either (except that one in my AP physics class where the class average is curved to an 85 and if the whole class gets a 40 it suddenly doesn't suck) but I'm not in charge of the college grading system so what the fuck am I gonna do about it. Just because the world is not a fair place doesn't make it right for a cheater to be the top of the class.

Edited February 17, 2012 by Luminescent Blade

[Esau of Isaac]

Well I don't know about you, but learning useless information is important to me. How many people can you meet at once before you forget their names 1-4 minutes later? I can meet 7 people at once, remember all their names, and greet them by name a week later.

Good for you. Give yourself a pat on the back, and while you're at it why don't you go and fellate yourself. You're so goddamn amazing being able to memorize information.

Names are a bit of other extraneous useless information, but learning to learn that useless data only helps me in the long run. The more you learn, regardless of "worth" or lack of worth, the more you can learn to learn.

Uh, names can be extraneous useless information. But to say they necessarily are is beyond braindead.

But go ahead and revel in your idiocy. I'll be your boss someday. :V

No you won't. You won't get the job because you didn't get into a prestigious school on account of those F's you got from legitimately failing those tests. But at least you'll feel comfortable knowing that you're where you're at because it's where you belong or something. Whatever.

For the record, I find it alarming you're throwing out insults regarding my intelligence without being able to realize that I have not admitted to cheating. Because I don't cheat. I don't have the need to. I am explaining why it is not the end of the world that some people cheat.

Edited February 17, 2012 by Esau of Isaac

[Dr.Sholes]

This is the greatest topic ever! Why would someone care about someone cheating off their test for school? It really depends on what they're cheating off of, if I don;t know the answer to something on a test I'm probably gonna glance at someone near me who's smart. But if it's for work I'm obviously not gonna be like, "Hey, that's one nice beat! Hope you don't mind if I borrow it and say I made it!!" That would be completely different, if someone cheated off of me in school I'm not gonna care but if someone stole part of a beat I produced, yeah, I'm gonna be pissed off.

[Lord Raven]

To be fair, grading on a curve is innately unfair. Most of the time the curve is completely destroyed by one person that has a perfect or very near perfect score as it is.

Not in college. My A in intro physics was a 70% and i know someone that 90%'d (at least) every exam.

[Caliban of Sycorax]

Grading on a curve was how I didn't get C's in AP Physics.

I don't get graded on curves anymore because, well, I'm a Theatre major. We don't need curve grades, most of our grades are based on our skill and/or participation. Even on paper exams I have never seen curve grading anymore.

However, I'm seriously wondering why the OP thought this was a good idea. Seriously, we're walking a moral line here. Not calling myself holier-than-thou. I cheated throughout AP Euro, like the rest of the class. We all had the ID's and we all had the multiple choice answers. Doesn't make it right if everyone's doing it.

[Phoenix Wright]

I hate my AP Physics teacher's method...it's truly awful for my learning. She's awesome, but man, let's just say an 84% for an 'A' is practically necessary.

Although, I'd be lying to you if I said I was trying. So I suppose I should work harder?

For those that took AP Physics (or IB) in high school and passed the exam, how much did it help you in taking introductory physics courses?

Yes, I know the topic is about cheating...but the topic right now seems to be AP Physics. :P

[Lord Raven]

It helps a lot, trust me. But if you're a major, then studying physics is a completely different can of worms that I won't open. If you're an engineer, then as long as you have AP under your belt then you'll see a lot of repeat topics and it'll make more sense in college (high school teachers have no idea what they're doing).

[Polaris]

I didn't take physics, though I do the IB, and I can safely say that cheating in the IB can get you horribly screwed where I live. The grading system isn't weighted either, so if we do badly, well, we do badly. Psychology HL for example asks for a 72% to get a 7. Our class average is about 60%, but the grade boundaries are not changed.

Any subject at HL means that you can ostensibly get college credits, as well as see a lot of repeat material.

(Since we do basic physics from grade 8 onward, just about anyone can take SL physics, if not HL.)

[Thor Odinson]

I still suck at physics.

Well, Electroagnetism. It's one of the things that no matter how good you are as a teacher, I'll never get it.

Like some people can never get calculus but I basically live on it I guess.

I'm not even an engineer, and I can't think of how physics would relate to my major outside of game design or programming for physics-related fields. :/

ONE MORE SEMESTER AAAH

[Original Alear]

The closest I came to cheating in high school was on a french exam where I didn't know how to translate particular words, I would just write the sentence in very big letters and then make it impossible to read towards the end of the page. I did this knowing that the teacher was very lenient, and he didn't take off points on the questions I did this on. It was the difference between a B and an A.

In college I only cheated when we were given take-home exams in certain classes. I feel that if the teacher doesn't want us to cheat, they should at least have the courtesy to proctor the exam and pretend they are doing something to monitor us as we take the exam. Why should I be the only one policing myself in a policy which works entirely to my detriment if I follow it (to the extent that grades matter)?

EDIT-Fuck integrity (not the user).

Edited February 18, 2012 by Jet Black Gunner