Shining Force 2 Mafia: Game Over

[Percivalé]

To be completely honest I haven't been able to focus as much on this game either for personal reasons but I'm not going to sub out because I do that too much. Sad to see you go though, Snike, since you were one of my strongest reads.

[Elieson]

Where is everyone?

Subbing out.

Fudgeballs, 2 subs would be nice at this point then.

[riariadne]

(I am in charge of posting frequently)

I don't like a Xinnidy lynch because it seems a lot more like frustration than anything else to me. The votes are not that great either. eclipse's is just based on one post, Shinori's scumreads throughout the game are mostly because she's unmemorable, Marth's feels flimsy and tacked on (his case earlier was "find iffy in general"...), and Kay's is also really bad

##Vote: Xinnidy

Apparently everyone unvoted him, not just a few people to prevent an early lynch? I would have voted him earlier, but I thought there was still a big wagon.

This in particular seems like distancing and not wanting to get involved in a big wagon to me for no reason other than it was a big wagon. She commented earlier on the very same thing

It doesn't take that much skimming to see that there aren't many votes on Lucina.

So yeah, right now ##Vote: Kay feels appropriate to me.

Still not really pleased with Proto's excessive focus on flavor when it's proven to be essentially useless. Not sure what to think of Shinori's claim. Not particularly hard to fake as scum, but there doesn't seem to be any other option other than Neko saving him, which is weird with the vanillizer also going on, so I suppose there's no reason to disbelieve it for now.

[Kay]

This in particular seems like distancing and not wanting to get involved in a big wagon to me for no reason other than it was a big wagon. She commented earlier on the very same thing

No, it's not wanting to lynch someone early when the big wagon is moving really fast.

Okay, Xinnidy isn't a player I remember seeing lose her cool that way in the past, but then again, she hasn't really played much. I think we can both agree that it would help if she would get back here and make a post with more content and less sarcasm.

I don't really like how scorri popped in to mention a common suspicion with common reasoning, and not wanting to be on any wagons sounds too much like not wanting to be held responsible for a mislynch.

I'm gonna propose that everybody list who they think would be the second best lynch, in addition to their primary suspicion (who they should be voting for, or at least making it clear why they aren't voting for them), because a lot of people seem to only want one person lynched and that won't be very useful. SB in my case.

[NekoRex]

I'm kind of wondering what happened to everyone thinking Proto was scum, what with all the rolespec.

##Unvote because Bal said he idled, but I still want to see that role doing something at the next best chance.

##Vote: Proto because I thought this was looking good when I read but I don't know if I missed something that made him town or what.

[BBM]

Kay

Helios

SB

Proto

Something like that would be my lynch priority for today based on the people who seem to be under any heat.

SB, do you mind outing who your original target was?

[charlie_]

I don't think my target it important if I haven't claimed my role yet, so I plan on keeping it to myself.

##Vote: Kay

Her content is a little stronger than Rocker's, but that's not really saying much after wading through Rocker's fluff, and it's not enough to alleviate my suspicions. With my stronger scumreads claimed already I think Kay is the best option.

I'd be alright with a Proto lynch, but I'd like to hear from a calmer Xinn before fully making up my mind on her.

[Baldrick]

I pity the poor fool who decides to sub in here.

What scorri has done in day 2 is making me feel leery about her.

-There hasn't been much scumhunting. She stayed on Marth for a while, but didn't analyse his posts or do much to try and strengthen or dismiss the case.

- She had some associative reads on Mancer which I thought she would fall back on, especially if she could get some scumreads out of it. But nothing more on it.

- Her vote on Proto uses some faulty logic. Just because Snike claimed miller, we shouldn't ignore what he does. And based on the direct approach he took before, I don't think lynching him is a good idea.

- A minor point, but she induced Shinori to post his role PM. The less this stuff happens, the better.

##Vote: scorri

I don't have a real backup scumread yet. At this point, I wouldn't strongly object to a Kay lynch based on Rocker's play, but I won't support it until I have a chance to read her ISO again and see what the fuss is about.

[Kriemhild]

I don't see how Snike claiming Miller gives him the right to push ShoM for a roleclaim when there was no guarantee that his role deletion was permanent. In fact, Miller is always a very suspicious roleclaim because Mafia members generally turn up guilty when investigated.

The problem with Rocker and Loocy is that they both subbed out, so we can no longer question their subs about their earlier suspicious behavior.

Anyways, if I were to make an opinion based on posts alone, the most suspicious player I can find here is Helios. He seems to be writing big giant posts that don't have a whole lot of content within. Not enough to base a lynch on, but it's better than Xinnidy or NekoRex.

##Vote: Helios

[scorri]

Baldrick: Lets see.

-There hasn't been much scumhunting. She stayed on Marth for a while, but didn't analyse his posts or do much to try and strengthen or dismiss the case.

There hasn't been much posting either. >_> I'm aware that's not exactly a point in my favor, but I've been crazy busy and just haven't posted much at all. I ended up dismissing my case on him largely because of the fact that his role was claimed to be deleted and the fact that I didn't find anything else really to dismiss my case.

- She had some associative reads on Mancer which I thought she would fall back on, especially if she could get some scumreads out of it. But nothing more on it.

Those reads are still there, I just haven't done anything with them yet because they aren't fully developed. Something I'm hoping to do later tonight, but once again, time is a thing I typically lack.

- Her vote on Proto uses some faulty logic. Just because Snike claimed miller, we shouldn't ignore what he does. And based on the direct approach he took before, I don't think lynching him is a good idea.

What direct approach? I'm really not sure what you're talking about with that. And I never said we should ignore Snike, I just don't especially see Snike as scummy for his push on Sho and I'd like to see more reasoning behind his view there. That's my whole point with Proto is that his cases have no meat on them. There's nothing there really. It's just a bunch of one liners largely based on flavor which isn't useful.

- A minor point, but she induced Shinori to post his role PM. The less this stuff happens, the better.

a) I never asked Shinori to post his Role PM

b) I never wanted Shinori to post his Role PM

c) Everything that Shinori showed us was already known in the game

d) I was just asking Shinori to clarify his claim slightly because the combination of roles he'd been claiming seemed odd to me and I was hoping to perhaps catch him in a lie wrt the numbers since that's an easier role to fake as scum than some.

[Helios]

##Unvote

##Vote Xinnidy

Would rather not lynch the claimed doc at this point (though I'm not necessarily clearing Neko either) and I actually posted many reasons as to why I find Xinn scummy. My only problem is how quickly this wagon piled up when Neko claimed doctor. Definitely some opportunism in this wagon -- regardless of what Xinny flips -- that I'll have to analyze at a later time.

Proto is second in lynch priority now (already gave reasons earlier), especially after his extremely weak votes on SB and myself just now, and saying Xinn is town for "not inthread reasons". Very suspicious.

@SB: Your Blitz argument was literally just a huge quote dump and a short sentence response to each, and you never touched on it again after that post. That scumread on Rocker was a bit waffly since you said you'd vote him but you thought he may be lazy town. Not to mention the way you went about getting roleblocked and changing up your story was really weird. You're not that high of a lynch priority atm, but I think it's something to make note of.

[Percivalé]

Okay so I have some extra insight. I think Proto is likely town, although his excuse method makes me uncomfortable. "I'm not good at reading people so I go off of 'objective data'" is tough to work with, especially since he considers roleclaims to be 'objective data' when they are not.

[Baldrick]

Read Kay now.

She questioned BBM over not wanting to hammer Neko, then did a similar thing with Xinnidy. And she was a bit inconsistent on Xinnidy, considering the reason she gave for not wanting to vig Xinnidy is still there. I don’t think the wagon is any smaller than when her suspicion was solidified.

Nothing devastating, but there's something there.

___

scorri, even if you don't have time to fully develop the reads tonight, you should post them if you've got something solid. Every little bit helps.

Proto outright told us to stop lynching Xinnidy, since he's got some information on her. This is pretty much the worst way to interact with a scumbuddy, and I can't see why he'd try to stop a mislynch as scum, so it seems like something a townie would do. It would be good to see more meaty cases, but I think Proto is getting an undue amount of suspicion for his cases because he's posted mostly speculation.

The thing with Shinori isn't so bad, but I don't think we should be questioning claims unless there's a good reason to do so.

[Kay]

With my stronger scumreads claimed already I think Kay is the best option.

Mind clarifying whether these are ex-scumreads, or if you're still suspicious of people but you don't want to risk lynching them?

[Shinori]

I'd much rather lynch between Xinnidy paulina or Kay at the moment.

I feel a lot safer about the first two though.

Also I swear I've seen Paulina typing a reply in this thread on and off since about 10 am.

[Baldrick]

Also I swear I've seen Paulina typing a reply in this thread on and off since about 10 am.

So about half an hour then?

[Percivalé]

!!!!!!!!

WAIT Proto said he had info on Xinnidy? I didn't see it, PLEASE let me know. DON'T LYNCH XIN IF THIS IS THE CASE.

[Shinori]

I missed that as well actually. GUESS IT'S TIME TO GO BACK UNTIL I FIND THIS.

[Percivalé]

I repeat, DO NOT LYNCH XIN. And no I'm not telling you anything else. Sorry that I'm being a hypocrite and pulling vague shit now, but trust me on this one. Unless I misread something.

Honestly I still would like a lynch on the Kay slot if you guys end up doing that, but I have to reread Kay content first.

[Percivalé]

The people jumping on the Xin wagon catch my attention now. I have reason to believe that Xin is town but this requires some more reading back.

[Paulina]

Paulina ISO came up with loads of fluff but my vote is better where it is.

Care to elaborate.

After finishing my anthropology essay and getting some sleep for the first time in a week (screw this game ._.), I'm finally not feeling like a vampire anymore. Rereading the last ~5 pages, I made a few new reads; my scumlist has changed around a little accordingly.

Proto, this is getting silly. We were all up in your business for basing reads solely on flavor, and in the past two days, all of your content has been on flavor. Wtf? This particular post was pretty unbelievable. Although I didn't like the multiball theory at all (especially the way Neko said it so definitively), your reasoning behind why it couldn't exist was literally all flavorspec. You're not helping.

In any case, with the "wings clipped" flavor, it may not a coincidence that both Blues and ShoM were Birdmen. Blues also said that there's a statement in his role PM which says that something will happen if he targets a specific player. It's possible that this specific player is scorri and she clips the wings of any bird trying to investigate her. I hope ShoM can at least confirm whether or not his target was scorri.

By this part of your post I was beginning to laugh. You are blatantly jumping to so many conclusions. I can't believe you were suggesting that any role deleter PR would only work on "bird characters" (if I hear the phrase "bird characters" said so seriously one more time, I'll bust a gut). No one cares about their flavor this much. You did acknowledge that the "wings getting clipped" bs might just be an artistic flourish in your next paragraph – gee, really? – but these sections looked like cheap filler.

The scum Role Deleter may have targeted Blues because he claimed Luke, making the rest of us think that only wings are threatened by role deletion. And with Blues being a Role Cop, it's also beneficial for the Mafia to have yet another investigation role disabled. Striking two birds with one stone, so to speak. This would be the strongest theory imo IFF ShoM actually did not target scorri in N0.

I stopped being frustrated here -- by this point I was literally cracking up. X) This is getting too funny. So now scum targeted Marth and Sho to trick us into thinking that only "bird characters" are threatened by role deletion. That is the "strongest theory" you can come up with. Proto, you are literally the only person who has scrutinized the flavor so deeply. I am positive that the mafia would not bank on anyone being stupid silly enough to fall for some weird, elaborate flavor ruse.

In a reread, this sounded phoned-in as heck.

NekoRex roleclaimed Doc. This is bad, because we don't know if there are any other reliable Doctors, so he might be an easy target for the Mafia. zak's "protection" is too risky. NekoRex, did you ask Elieson whether you're capable of protecting yourself?

I noticed that you took a pretty decisive stance on Xinnidy, here:

Guys, can we please stop trying to lynch Xinnidy? I'm pretty sure he's Town, and it won't benefit us for him to roleclaim.

My reasons for that aren't based on the public messages in this thread. I'd prefer not to disclose my reasons but I don't want to have him dead.

Imo, saying something like this is tantamount to claiming you have night results on her. Considering how sketchy Xinny's play has been (more on that in a minute), this is a pretty bold stance to take. This might be obvious, but if one of you flips scum, it's going to give some pretty strong associative reads on the other. On the other hand, if you flip town, I'm going to look like a butt. ._.

TLDR: If you're valuing flavor this highly, I'm beginning to doubt how useful you are, even if you were a 100% confirmed townsperson. I'm under the impression you're a veteran, so this just feels like lazy (read: scummy) play. And tbh, even if this ended in a mislynch, with of all the incessant flavor I wouldn't even care.

##Vote: Proto

The other person who struck me as sketchy during the reread was Xinnidy. A lot of people have already touched on her tone (upset, somewhat erratic, large reactions), but a few things pinged me.

It seems you forgot D1 very quickly.

What can I say about you? You had some fair reads before all the voting and suspicion aimed at you, then you started to get a bit shaken, though you did admit this 21 person thing was a bit massive on you early in the game. That still doesn't stop it from being weird.

I really wish I could go on without my motivation dying away after a few quotes, so I guess this is just the pot calling the kettle back, but there's some thought in this NekoRex wagon, even if most of it is just flying over my head.

Xinny, I felt like you completely vacillated on Neko here. Saying his reads were okay, stating the obvious, calling him shady for getting "shaken" (which you clearly have yourself ._.). You came full circle again by the end, and said you felt there was merit to his wagon. And the last line, "–But there's some thought to in this Neko wagon," felt phoned-in as heck. Assuming you're scum, this looked like an attempt to avoid attaching yourself too strongly to a mislynch (as he was the main wagon at the time), but not clearing him either.

I was also uncomfortable by sometime Baldrick pointed out, about the two-man scumteam.

Ok so I saw something about two-man mafia and I don't find it likely at all since there was 15 informed town according to shinori so that's 2 mafia and 4 ITP which makes little sense to me, now only 1 mafia assuming that Mancer was scum, I don't even.

I am pretty sure I saw it on passing, but since I clearly can't find it, I must have messed up when somebody said there was two scum or some similar wording.

This almost felt like a slip to me too -- it was so specific. And when pressed for the source, she pretty conveniently forgot. ._. Then again, Neko's statement about the multiball was even more deliberate than this, and he's leaning town with the doctor claim, so I'm not sure about this. Overall, I wouldn't mind this lynch, but at this point, I think Proto has a greater chance of flipping scum.

Also, I've been weirded out by Levity's consistent defense of Proto. Levvy, you've been going on about this for like four days now. Besides one or two posts like this (i.e. clearly stated read, but not much justification), I don't believe Proto has posted anything other than constant role/flavorspec. Doesn't that seem lazy/scummy to you? ._. Do you have some out-of-thread reason to believe he's legit?

I had a few scumreads on Neko, but if his doctor claim is legitimate, he'll probably be numero uno on the kill list. Also, call me a sucker, but that role PM he wrote to Elie made me feel bad. ;_; I'm sorry this game has been so hard on your self-confidence, Neko. I had to decompress for a month after my last game before this one.

Btw, Snike, please stay in. I like your walls. (It's nice not being the only person who bothers writing them). We all want you to play. Also, screw everyone for ninja'ing me. ._.

[Shinori]

##Unvote:

When does phase end again?

[charlie_]

Mind clarifying whether these are ex-scumreads, or if you're still suspicious of people but you don't want to risk lynching them?

I don't want to lynch the doc, and my BBM read is less scummy than before.

@Paulina, what I meant to say was your early play was kind full of fluff (although I don't know whether your posts were in RVS or not at the time due to looking at them in an ISO, in retrospect they probably were and I'm busy being a doofus) but nothing stood out as scummy later aside from this thing:

On an unrelated note, this BBM vs. Eclipse thing has been a constant distraction from the thread's main dialogue. I understand that both of you think the other is shady, but can we put that on the back burner until D2? There are several revelations that need to be attended to first (i.e. Prims vs. Lucina). Neither of you are on the line for the lynch atm.

Which is kind of you trying to quell town discussion. Even if the Prims v Lucina thing did happen, discussion needs to keep going on other things too for people to talk about.in later phases, and to build reads off of. It's less you asking for their opinions on it, and more you saying to stop their discussion and talk only about that, as it was more important. If that wording makes any sense whatsoever, hooray.

I'm full of derp today, I'll see what the morning brings I suppose. More in the morning I guess.

[Percivalé]

I don't know about Proto but DON'T LYNCH XIN and don't lynch Proto just because he specs a lot jesus christ

[Baldrick]

Leder have you got something? I don't think we should put too fine a point on it otherwise.