Randa Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 We don't hate LTC or LTCers we hate the elitist mentality that has appeared alongside LTC. Like I hate the hipster mentality of anti-LTC people. It's not the concept or the people it's the way they present themselves and their style of play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
47948201 Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 I say if you don't like someone's attitude, don't go dealing with that. Leave them to their fellow LTCers and do your own thing that you find fun. If they hate on non-LTCers for being "casual" or whatever, just ignore them. This shouldn't be a big problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadykid Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 Chiki my boy, they dont hate LTC, they hate you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowy_One Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 If people just want to complete a chapter, how does that measure how good a unit is? I can solo any given chapter in FE13 with Archer/Sniper Virion, but we know he's total crap. This is part of the elitist mentality that bugs people like me so much. 'You're not trying for LTC? Well then you must dally around and the entire reason for having a tier list is pointless because this game is OMGSOEASY! otherwise.' While someone may not care about getting a lower turncount they still want to do better and have a better team. If they didn't they wouldn't be consulting a tier list in the first place. But wanting something like that, even when using turncounts to measure unit quality, doesn't need to reach to the extreme of 'LTC or bust!' levels, or even TRY for lower turns. If you're using better units a lower turncount should come *naturally*. Think of it as the difference between someone who wants to become legitimately better at Mario vs. someone who memorizes the layout. They may both get identical scores or the latter may even get higher scores, but when a tournament puts them on a brand new level that neither has played the former is going to have actual skill to use instead of memorized commands. Also, the problem isn't 'people playing for score'. It's 'people playing for score than insulting people who don't'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadykid Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 Think of it as the difference between someone who wants to become legitimately better at Mario vs. someone who memorizes the layout. They may both get identical scores or the latter may even get higher scores, but when a tournament puts them on a brand new level that neither has played the former is going to have actual skill to use instead of memorized commands. I don't even....what? Snowy, must all your examples suck so bad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 i feel like snowy here is the only one who legitimately cannot accept LTC and everyone else just hates aeine all of the elitist dicks who tend to spew "omg ltc is the only way to play" (i'm sure part of this is my fault as well, before anyone else wags an irony finger at me) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 Nah cam we just make jokes at your expense to your face in chat |D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacLovin Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 Most people who hate LTC do so because they feel it invalidates their style of playing, or worse, calls it incompetent. This can be seen when people are super upset about their favorite character not being so good after all. Sometimes they need to justify that it's lame, or that the people playing it are lame. Well yeah. crab mentality isn't effective here. I'm fine with the playstyle in itself and I enjoy videos of it, but certain LTC players could stand to be less elitist about it. Just a bit. It's kinda annoying. I'm pretty sure out of the 4 guys that I don't personally know here; who constantly use LTC as the absolute measuring stick for unit performance, only 2 of them are easy to get along with. i feel like snowy here is the only one who legitimately cannot accept LTC and everyone else just hates aeine all of the elitist dicks who tend to spew "omg ltc is the only way to play" (i'm sure part of this is my fault as well, before anyone else wags an irony finger at me) well yeah. but sonic sword mia man. sonic sword mia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZemZem Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 Sonic Sword!Ike shaved more turns, though, I thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 If a concept is held in contempt, look no further than those who are the most vocal about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadykid Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 Well yeah. crab mentality isn't effective here. I'm pretty sure out of the 4 guys that I don't personally know here; who constantly use LTC as the absolute measuring stick for unit performance, only 2 of them are easy to get along with. well yeah. but sonic sword mia man. sonic sword mia. wait, who's the other 3? Sonic Sword Lucia, believe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ema Skye Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 People have this idea this connotation of LTC players that automatically assumes that any LTC player is an elitist prick. So people associate LTC with elitism and that's why they have so much dislike for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Bear Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 I don't exactly HATE casual play, but I do find it to be an incredibly boring and dumb way to play the game. What's the point of spending tons of hours leveling weak/er units like a madman, besides bragging rights? Sorry if that sounded mockingly, but the point I'm trying to get across is that some people that do that (hours of griding) proceed to call the game "really easy" because they've solo'd it with their all-capped Donnels or Morgans. um... I know immediately this post has nothing to do with me but I have to answer it any way. How many "casual" players do you see telling everyone that wasting their time grinding and such is the "best" way to play or the "only" good way to play? I've only come across 1-2 and they're obvious trolls from their posts (not on SF). I consider the game "really easy" and I never grind. Just sayin'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJWalker Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 (At the end of the game, one of the main things that gets recorded is turn count. Going for a low turn count in FE is like going for a high score in any other game, and who here actually hates people who try to get points?) >Implying that people give a shit about highscores in video games anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Cynthia- Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 (edited) The reason why turns are used as a metric is because FE is generally easy enough that we could clear chapters easily with any character given enough turns. A list which sets the 'maximum' turncount for each chapter rather than going for the absolute minimum on each one might be an idea, although some people will inevitably find the maximum turns too harsh or lenient. Edited June 5, 2013 by -Cynthia- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Bear Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 Also a way of tiering without turns, assume that all units gets the EXP they need to survive and thrive and tier according to 3 things; (modified for Awakening) 1. Opportunity cost. What did they have to take to become a good unit? EXP cost is fairly low because there's so much EXP to go around. While item cost is be pretty high for an early second seal. 2. Difficulty. Or as I like to call it "the Donnel killing question". How hard was it to get the EXP and items for the unit to thrive? 3. End-result. Pretty self-explanatory. How is the unit performing now that we've invested in them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 ... what is a good unit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 ... what is a good unit A miserable little pile of secrets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZemZem Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 Every unit can be good with effort poured into them, right? ...Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Bear Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 Every unit can be good with effort poured into them, right? ...Right? In FE the answer is obviously yes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Laufeyson Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 I think it's because of the elitist and kind of arrogant image LTC and LTC players have. Yar. I'm fine with the playstyle in itself and I enjoy videos of it, but certain LTC players could stand to be less elitist about it. Just a bit. It's kinda annoying. Indeed. Wanna play for turns? Go ahead. Just dont be a chump about it. If a concept is held in contempt, look no further than those who are the most vocal about it. A miserable little pile of secrets. LAWL! I go for LTC in the Tellius games because BEXP is rewarded for it. If you stay under a certain turncount, you get more BEXP. Its pretty wiggy. FE6 and 7 have rankings, so peeps like to get those ranks as high as possible. Some peeps just like seeing really low turn counts at the end of their games. In FE7, i dont give much of a snot for turns because i like supports. lol. I just dont like to be told "im doing it wrong" because i dont go for turns every time i play. Sometimes, im there for the story. Others, for the funzies and trying to use guys i never used before. Sometimes, i go for supports and getting all the treasure on a map. Sometimes, all the above. How is that wrong? Fire Emblem is a game designed to play however a person wants to play it. Its part of its charm. Wanna rush to the finish line and see how fast you can clear the game? Cool beans. Option is there. Wanna piss around and see what happens when you level that scrub? Wiggy. Go for it! I honestly dont think there is a right and wrong way of playing. So when some LTC guys go "duuude wtf. [insert character here] is ass because TURNS" it comes off as a Stop Having Fun Guy and thats not cool. Thats why people are all "ehhhh..." about it. They dont hate the playstyle. They hate the attitude that comes with it. No one likes someone telling them they are playing their game wrong. I certainly dont go around saying that LTC is doing it wrong. Why should someone tell me that the way i play is wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xinnidy Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 Hi I enjoy LTC I'm a terrible person and I hate all incarnations of cleric!cecille ever you filthy casuals i feel like snowy here is the only one who legitimately cannot accept LTC and everyone else just hates aeine all of the elitist dicks who tend to spew "omg ltc is the only way to play" Pretty much what I think is going on too. LTC is one of the ways to re-play a series I much enjoy, and I don't really care if it isn't other's people cup of tea because it and ranking fit the free gaming time I have, surprisingly. I can see how people are turned off by the LTC community but as someone that dived right into drafts and challenge runs for a test I find that a pretty childish generalization to label on. I don't enjoy speaking up a lot for how people view LTC, either, and I tend to believe that LTC is a better way to gauge characters because all the tier lists I see that stray away are so darn subjective they don't seem valid. A tier where you try to give all characters value kind of beat the harsh and blunt purpose of a tier list. If that bothers you, go casual, just play the game whichever way you want, that's fine and dandy, you're having fun there and I'm having fun here. Tier lists are mostly just there when you're in for your own kind of play and rules. I do acknowledge I get a bit riled up over nothing when someone puts a very casual or grindy way to do something as the best thing ever but so far I'd just label it as letting some steam back. :P I don't approve of LTC being looked away because of select people and I will stand by it, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadykid Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 A miserable little pile of secrets. damn right it is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 I, too, am of the opinion that LTC as a playstyle is not hated so much as the attitude behind a select few of those who endorse it. There are probably casual players who are elitist, but they don't tend to congregate here for long. But enough talk. Have at you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJWalker Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 LTC! A cesspit of hatred and lies. Fight for then, and die for their sins. I liked the redone dialogue much more. :\ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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