Choose You're Own Role Mafia - Game Over

[j00]

How am I ATE-ing right now exactly?

the "sorry for sucking" part

have you got any passing comments on people, cases, stuff that stood out to you, anything?

[riariadne]

bear's claim really doesn't lessen my scumread on him at all

[charlie_]

Going to sleep

[j00]

You were a top scumread for Paper (others too I believe) whom I was pretty borderline on so I decided to hook you and see where it went.

I'm kind of #YOLO when it comes to role uses unless I have an obvious target.

eh, since you're probably not gonna be the lynch today since BBM says so, you should probably try to get on the irc to have him choose your target, at least

[Strege]

I'd like Strege to explain why I'm still on that list. I don't like that Shinori came back, promised a post, and left.

You didn't really give like reads and stuff when I said I was suspicious of you for not having strong reads and stuff. Basically I saw a lot of incredulity, which can go any which way, rather than explicitly saying some duder was scummy for something.

I think SB is scum because he hasn't done anything that stands out to me as townish, I didn't like his early stuff about BBM since it sounded waffly at best, and I really don't like how defensive he got about it and the ridiculously tiny amount of sense that the post I quoted made. That said, thinking about it more clearly, this definitely falls under my policy of not wanting cop claims lynched. I still think he's scum though.

(yes I'm aware it looks bad to realize that now but whatever)

##Unvote (Serious Bananas)

##Stab: bearclaw13

You seem quite certain that SB is scum but I don't see where this certainty is coming from. The entirety of your reads seems to stem from the contradiction issue that you said wasn't certain, defensiveness regarding your vote (which I don't really see, given that I don't like/understand the vote either), and a nonsense post from SB (which I agree was exaggerated but I don't see the scum intent of exactly). If you think SB is scum now but aren't willing to lynch him because of his claim then why aren't you pushing him anyway so the rest of the town can have more reason to lynch him later on?

Rage, I had a post going and everything until my computer decided life was too easy and decided to exert gravitational forces on my mouse (so forced to reboot). Ugh, will do some replies before doing my ISO post...AGAIN.

The basic gist of it was that SB's recent posts are making me feel better about him, even if I still don't feel good about how he's handled his role. Additionally I felt he was more confrontational when I played like that one game with him as scum. Not feeling so great about Shinori, and his recent reads post doesn't exactly overwhelm me with confidence. I don't find the cases on Rein to be scummy, but I'm still reading him to be town. And I didn't get around to ISOing Boron and Eclipse because of the aforementioned

What don't you like about Shinori's reads post? Or do you mean that it just doesn't look townie?

kirsche, when you said you were voting Shinori for reasons already posted in thread did you mean other people's reasons that you never specified? Your vote on him right now is super unsupported, even after saying you read into Boron's ISO for stuff on Shinori. Did you not find anything on Shinori? What from other people's arguments do you find the most compelling?

Need to reread bear & Shinori & Rein before I make a decision since I guess that's who we're deciding between. :/

I'm also anti-supalatenights, and I do wake up at or before 6am BBMtime so that would be fine for me. I will assume the results of our last discussion as the default behaviour from here onward if schedules don't sync up, but I do have something to say to BBM and wouldn't mind talking to him for a minute or two early in the OC period.

[j00]

bedtime gais

[MRDRHAWK]

Alright, caught up. My thoughts:

-Shinori's slight ATEing doesn't make me feel like he's too scummy, but it is pinging me somewhat. What more concerns me is lack of content from him.

-I read Rein initially as scum, but now I'm thinking he's more town. He just seems to be caught up on a bad wagon.

-Bear's claim is meh and seems semi-desperate. A hooker/re-hooker is kind of neat, I guess, but I think that even if he does flip town, he won't be that much missed. I'm sure we've got other roleblockers around.

-IMO, Boron's town and I don't get why people think she'd be a good lynch candidate down the line. It just seems dumb.

Nobody else seems like they'd be pinging me at all, really. Reading Strege's ISO to get a better feel for him now.

[Sunwoo]

Looking through kirsche's ISO, I'm not a fan of his Strege tunnel. The initial vote came because he thought that Strege was too trusting of BBM's "town leader" thing. I actually agree with the argument about Strege holding his vote on Refa over character stuff, but don't like how he justified Strege's reaction being bad. You might think that giving up is one of the scummiest things to do after getting dayshot, but not all players (town or scum) will think the same as you. Also, I don't see how Strege "gave up" either.

I'm not sure how Shinori and Strege switched places as his topmost scum reads either, or why he switched his vote to Shinori when he was still suspicious of Strege. Also, a bit of a minor note about my double vote motivator thing:

1) This is not the case. The motivator is a different person.

2) tbh I find this motivator scummy anyway just for the manor in which they revealed their existence. Trying to early hammer someone is not cool. I do wish Boron kept her vote until the next votals though just so I would know it is actually a motivator and not just some troll messenger and Boron was actually targetted by this role.

If you look back at the last votals before D1 ended, you'll notice that I actually revoted Proto and my vote showed up twice. If that's not what you're talking about then ???

[Sunwoo]

Whoops, forgot to say:

1) Overall, I'm less happy with kirsche right now then I was before.

2) BBM, when is the next IRC thing because I'll be busy pretty much all day until evening tomorrow.

[Da Bear]

-Bear's claim is meh and seems semi-desperate. A hooker/re-hooker is kind of neat, I guess, but I think that even if he does flip town, he won't be that much missed. I'm sure we've got other roleblockers around.

Said other roleblockers are not confirmed (only claimed blocked is Eli) and probably scum.

[BBM]

j00 you live in... Norway right? I'm not a stalker I sware.

I doubt there are duplicate roles in this game- at best town might have a Jailer or a JoaT with a Hook. Bearclaw's role sort of reminds me of NNR's from Spellcard- I think it's legit.

Boron, the chat room will be in like 22h40min from now.

And Shinori comes in and still doesn't say shit.

[Sunwoo]

Boron, the chat room will be in like 22h40min from now.

I think that's 5 PM my time. I'll probably be back in my apartment and online no later than 5:30 PM.

[Grassbridger]

I think Bearclaw makes a good point about Grassbridger going back and forth a lot on the Rein vs Bearclaw thing. IIRC Refa asked him why he thought Rein was worse than Bearclaw, and the reasoning he gave was that he thought that Bearclaw had better content in the latter half of D1, so he chose Rein on D2, except then he reread and realized that Bearclaw didn't actually have that much content, so then he voted Bearclaw again... idk it leaves a weird feeling.

No, that's not what happened. Your summary about my original vote on Rein is ok, although I want to clarify that I thought Bearclaw had "better" content compared to his ED1, not compared to Rein (I didn't explicitly compare them). On reread, I realized that Bearclaw didn't actually have that much content on day 2, which made me feel worse about him, and simultaneously people were making reasonable counterarguments to my Rein point. And I didn't vote bearclaw "again", I never voted him in the first place before that.

[Elieson]

I won't be online at that time. Well, I miiiiiight be. I'll be 1 hour into work at that point in time but as long as I'm not too swamped I may be able to get my iRC app on my droid to login for a few minutes. Tuesdays aren't usually that busy for me anyway.

[Elieson]

Said other roleblockers are not confirmed (only claimed blocked is Eli) and probably scum.

You really aren't confirmed town at this point. I saw something that makes me wonder actually. I was busy before but I have a minute to look for it now.

Gotta go dig it up

[MRDRHAWK]

So the chatroom is 6 PM mountain? Bitchin'.

[BBM]

But now you've made me reread bearclaw to find all that and I've picked up on a few more things: while he's still around a lot at phase end D1, his content level goes down somewhat, he explicitly sheeps the Proto wagon, suddenly has no more reads D2. I guess that last part makes me the most uncomfortable.

##Unvote

##Vote: JSND Has A Dragon Boner

What happened to all those reads you were expressing D1? How do you feel about Boron, SB and Elie? And other people?

I didn't mean to imply that you said Bearclaw had better content as opposed to Rein, I realized you meant as opposed to his ED1. However, you do state that you also found his content at the end of D1 lacking (though you say that no reads on D2 is worse).

[Elieson]

It depends on whether or not there's a sk/vig that shot last night though.

That's not it, it's me not wanting to give faulty info if there isn't a sk/vig.

My role doesn't even give me concrete proof since scum could have like hit a bpv or whatever as well, since I'm the leading wagon and yesterday proved Paper's role doesn't guarantee one of the wagons getting lynched, I'm the Town Roleblocker.

You keep bringing up SK/Vig here. I had a thought but then I lost it regarding you and having SK spec (as in, what exactly are you assuming wrt you hooking me?) Since there's only 1 kill, a bunch of possibilities could've occured.

WRT the first quoted: What are your thoughts if an SK/Vig didn't fire last night?

WRT the second quoted: As much as I'd like to hold on to a hooker for town, this comes off as scummy.

[BBM]

What's scummy about the second quote? In fact I think his hesitance to call you scum based on his results is townie because if he were scum he could use that to both push a mislynch and divert the lynch away from him.

[Elieson]

It's the curse of me and my love of semantics that's concerning me. The wording of the middle part

My role doesn't even give me concrete proof since scum could have like hit a bpv or whatever as well

The way he said this makes him seem more confused at the lack of a second kill, in a way that he seems unusually confident that a second kill should've occured.

[Da Bear]

You really aren't confirmed town at this point. I saw something that makes me wonder actually. I was busy before but I have a minute to look for it now.

Gotta go dig it up

I'm talking FMPOV a lot there, my main point is that we have no way to know whether or not there are other town hookers, it would be hookers in general for the rest of you I guess.

You keep bringing up SK/Vig here. I had a thought but then I lost it regarding you and having SK spec (as in, what exactly are you assuming wrt you hooking me?) Since there's only 1 kill, a bunch of possibilities could've occured.

WRT the first quoted: What are your thoughts if an SK/Vig didn't fire last night?

WRT the second quoted: As much as I'd like to hold on to a hooker for town, this comes off as scummy.

I think you could be SK/vig. I'm hesitant because I agree that there are other possibilities like bpv being hit but I still think it's highly possible because a town bpv that's hit should claim (show us that there are multiple night kills).

The way he said this makes him seem more confused at the lack of a second kill, in a way that he seems unusually confident that a second kill should've occured.

You're right, that sounds very semantics-based.

[Paperblade]

I'm catching up since I forgot this was a thing while talking to friends, BBM tell me what to change votals to exactly

[Strege]

Shinori

Things I care about:

-Gets concerned about Proto unvoting him, realizes Proto hadn't been voting him for very long, then votes Proto for consolidation citing a votepark (?)

-Not entirely sure why kirsche wanting to be town leader is bad but BBM is okay?

-Post 704 is sorta eugh; reactivity on Boron, a little meta on Refa, and wtf read on Rein that talks more about how Shinori sees SB as null are negative qualities.

Things I don't care about:

-His vote on me was dumb but it was early D1 and he never made it seem like more than it was.

-Supposed ATE (read this as AoT and was monumentally confused for a minute there).

Rein

Things I care about:

-Currently willing to lynch bearclaw as his secondary scumread for criticisms expressed in post 99 and voting Proto badly despite acknowledging that town!Objection did too. Bear has posted more since post 99 and I want to hear about it.

Things I don't care about:

-Miscommunications regarding PB's intent at the end of D1

-Whatever else Rein is being voted for; I can't remember what that is at the moment.

Bearclaw:

Things I care about:

-Mincing votes on himself regarding Boron's vote on him (in explanation of his vote on Boron)

-My positive tone read wrt the early D1 listpost stands but the SB argument is bad.

-Wait, he said his role was entirely flavour based? Explain this please!

-Vote on Grassbridger again seems to care a lot about how many votes are on himself.

Things I don't care about:

-Ridiculous BBM!roletalk and talk about Proto's Touhou mafia role seems slightly scummy on the net I suppose but it's so tangential and unsupportable that I don't see why scum would bring it up.

-Rolefishing Elie (I'm not doing this again sorry).

Regarding these three my order is:

bear > Shinori > Rein

but Shinori and Rein are kind of close and I'll have to do some more reading overnight to really solidify my positions on them. The list goes from fairly scummy -> mildly scummy.

##Unvote (my ersatz assassin (kirsche))
##Vote: bearclaw

[Elieson]

I think you could be SK/vig. I'm hesitant because I agree that there are other possibilities like bpv being hit but I still think it's highly possible because a town bpv that's hit should claim (show us that there are multiple night kills).

Right, I understand your position here, but the thing that gets me is that there hasn't been a night with more than 1 kill, so why is it that the first explained conclusion that you jump to is that a SK/Vig exists/would've fired N1, versus your first conclusion being something like "Oh snap I hooked someone and a kill still occured, I wonder who made the kill?" You sort of brush over the possibility of a single night kill being a possibility, and instead go into more detail and explaination of the topic of a theoretical second kill.

Like I said, it's more semantics based than anything else.

And of course if we're assuming that more than 1 nightkill exists, there's the chance that a Jailor, another Hooker, Doctor, Omniguard, Commuter or something else caused a kill to fail, as well as the chance that multiple shots could've both hit scorri. These are things that have probably crossed most of our minds though so yea

[Da Bear]

Right, I understand your position here, but the thing that gets me is that there hasn't been a night with more than 1 kill, so why is it that the first explained conclusion that you jump to is that a SK/Vig exists/would've fired N1, versus your first conclusion being something like "Oh snap I hooked someone and a kill still occured, I wonder who made the kill?" You sort of brush over the possibility of a single night kill being a possibility, and instead go into more detail and explaination of the topic of a theoretical second kill.

21 man game with so many OP roles makes me think that only one antitown kill would be incredibly unbalanced, that's the main reason I jumped to the conclusion I did.