Mafia Question of the Whenever - LYLO

[MRDRHAWK]

miller claims

[Prims]

i dont like it when people push on the townie guy who talks a lot just because said townie gives them a lot to pick on despite not actually being scum (Shin in Yume Nikki, Rapier in FE6, Terrador in SoH even though that was my fault)

basically if possible then I will always lynch the scummy lurker or the player who fails to contribute significantly when posting D1 because D1 is the best time to do so - you have no flips to work with, you have the most mislynches left that you're going to get (probably), and it means the player can't murky up peoples' reads for the rest of the game.

[eclipse]

Fake dayvigs and other equally silly reaction tests. If you're that desperate for interaction, there's better ways of doing it than painting a damn target on your back.

[Bluedoom]

I thought the Shin wagon in Yume Nikki was dumb because the initial basis for the vote was the fact that he had made a useless self-vote. Which is honestly a null tell because people encourage senseless votes in RVS . That and people perceive when RVS ends differently.

The fact that Refa was the only scum on the wagon made it worse.

[Grace]

nothing about d1 bothers me at all

nothing that can't crop up any other time in the game.

re rvs (mostly @marf): go make people accountable for their actions in rvs. question them. force information out. that's how you get out of rvs and a bad mentality toward it does you no favors.

edit: also "senseless votes in rvs". rvs is literally made of them. force information from those votes because it's all you have

Edited May 16, 2014 by Curly Brace

[Kaoz]

people encourage senseless votes in RVS .

Isn't it a good thing he got votes for it then? How else are you going to discourage those senseless votes?

[Bluedoom]

Isn't it a good thing he got votes for it then? How else are you going to discourage those senseless votes?

Well if everyone make random votes then another self-vote won't make a difference. The initial vote was FINE in the sense that Elieson thought RVS had ended and Shin didn't acknowledge that.

But then things exploded and a wagon popped up because Shin was too defensive about it, I dunno I felt that was unnecessary. ;/

[Refa]

people scumreading me

[Kaoz]

Well if everyone make random votes then another self-vote won't make a difference.

Self-votes in RVS are just as bad as self-votes at any other point during the game. If you're voting someone else, that might accomplish something (stacking votes more, maybe actually coming up with some sort of reasoning that others can react to), but if you're voting yourself you're not doing progressing the game at all.

[eclipse]

Refa, your SIG has conflicting messages. That's a scumtell.

[Refa]

No wonder I've been rolling scum so much lately! That explains everything.

[Prims]

i also hate it when people spread out their votes among the playerlist so you have like 5 people with one vote and maybe one person with 2, i'd rather always just make an arbitrary wagon on one player in hopes something will spring out of it

[Scarlet]

QotD 10: Assume you're town and its D1. What annoys you/makes it difficult while you're scum hunting?

Failing to lynch

[Vhaltz]

Inactives/flakers mostly. Extends to players who sign up while not caring much about the game anymore and purposefully lurk it out or don't care if they do scummy stuff and get lynched for it later.

Even if it's just another game for you the mod still went through the trouble of making a balanced, interesting game and they deserve to see the game unfold like it normally would instead of having to deal with modkills/forcesubs/etc.

[BBM]

Failing to lynch

[Elieson]

People who make an RVS vote and literally disappear.

Oh I forgot to mention this but I hate RVS with a burning passion. Its literally pointless if everyone and their mom make jokeposts, srsly.

Usually if I attempt to end it I get a wagon on me so I like to avoid it, lurk, and come back later once somebody else ends it.

RVS, really frustrating espeically since I have a more serious personality

I thought the Shin wagon in Yume Nikki was dumb because the initial basis for the vote was the fact that he had made a useless self-vote. Which is honestly a null tell because people encourage senseless votes in RVS . That and people perceive when RVS ends differently.

The fact that Refa was the only scum on the wagon made it worse.

nothing about d1 bothers me at all

nothing that can't crop up any other time in the game.

re rvs (mostly @marf): go make people accountable for their actions in rvs. question them. force information out. that's how you get out of rvs and a bad mentality toward it does you no favors.

edit: also "senseless votes in rvs". rvs is literally made of them. force information from those votes because it's all you have

That's why I play games! Because RVS is Fugly if kept around for more than 1 page. And Marth, I already said like 30 times, Shin's self-vote had little to do with my [lame] case on Shin!

I don't like RVS because it's a time where people can literally do things and pass their actions off as RVS, which means absolutely nothing. It's a waste of time to pursue RVS. Generally, my first vote exists to pile on to someone who already has one vote on them, and I'd sooner build a wagon to L-2 within the first two hours of a game if it meant that information was coming to the table that could hint at alignment. If we want to keep mafia in the dark, that's fine, but spending hours in a game when people are barely active to begin with, doing stupid timewasting things like RVS, doesn't help scumhunt. The RVS'er can't be held accountable for their vote, meaning that their posts are a waste of time, unless intentionally made with intent, and announced as such.

Seriously. How many people log on for an RVS post, then go to sleep and wake up and go to school and come home then see that 24 hours have passed since they did nothing?

I'd sooner try to implement something where players get roles with bonuses if their votes are made to accomplish something (How I'd do that...I dunno)

[Grace]

I don't like RVS because it's a time where people can literally do things and pass their actions off as RVS, which means absolutely nothing. It's a waste of time to pursue RVS.

then make them responsible for those actions. that attitude only perpetuates the issue and lets scum get away with stuff that they shouldn't be allowed to.

edit: i'm seeing this trend that people don't seem to actually realize what rvs is for, and how some people can get the game out of rvs quicker than others. required reading, it's in the second post of hq and it's a good read re: rvs

edit 2: tl;dr rvs is not truly random if you look at it properly

Edited May 16, 2014 by Curly Brace

[Elieson]

The last time I tried that was in Yuki Mafia. I clearly made Shin responsbile, though it was more for not contributing vs the self-vote.

And that obviously worked, right?

[Grace]

it got information on the table... so yes? pretty sure that's exactly what happened

[BBM]

Obviously someone is going to come out of RVS looking worse- if nobody does than RVS hasn't really ended. It might be you, it might be someone else, it might be town, it might be scum. But if you don't try to move the game past that stage, it won't.

[Elieson]

it got information on the table... so yes? pretty sure that's exactly what happened

... lets scum get away with stuff that they shouldn't be allowed to.

That's what I'm referring to. I didn't get the /Townie/ vibe from Shin, and almost pushed a pretty hard Mislynch, is what I meant.

[Elieson]

**Edit**

I hope the next question is "How do you contribute to ending RVS? [Provide an example if possible]", because I'd like to see opinions on that from people like eclipse and such.

[Vhaltz]

idk why people have such a big issue with RVS, RVS posts can be telling by themselves (see Shinori's first post in ITTD) so there's no reason to not scumhunt. Posting in RVS and trying to gather content from it doesn't necessarily frame you for the rest of the game, It's usually the trying too hard and attempting to answer to everybody's concerns that comes after people expressing early suspicion on town that leads to town looking bad right after RVS, just because they're giving people more content to pick apart when everybody else isn't a viable target or has less but decent content (see Shin and somewhat Scarlet in Yume Nikki D1).

[j00]

I can't into RVS either

getting out of RVS almost always involves nitpicky cases we usually move away from, and sometimes it sets an aggressive tone that can last for phases.

I just rarely have anything reasonable to say in RVS and prefers to avoid it and analyse people after it's over

I got a lot of heat for this in big NOCers, but I generally don't like reactions tests unless they have a clear purpose.

I'm okay with things like vig/cop fakes or gambits, but far too often people just pass of weird statements as reaction tests, even if it was never obvious what kind of reaction you could get and it only serves to further confusion.

[Kaoz]

Cases have to be nitpicky early on because you're lacking information and interactions. But those nitpicky cases build the foundation for better cases that should eventually lead to your lynch target.

That's what I'm referring to. I didn't get the /Townie/ vibe from Shin, and almost pushed a pretty hard Mislynch, is what I meant.

In the end you didn't mislynch though, did you? The sooner you manage to get out of RVS by pursuing relatively minor points, the sooner you can move on to the rest of the day and the more time you will have left in D1 to figure out the best lynch target. Nobody said that the vibe you got in RVS necessarily needs to lead to a lynch of that person, just that it shouldn't be ignored. Reads you got during RVS can change, just like reads you develop throughout the rest of the game can change.

Edited May 16, 2014 by Kaoz