Tyne-Wear Mafia - Where Are They Now? Special Bonus 2016 Update

[MRDRHAWK]

I've actually been fairly busy the last two days Prims ;/

will reread Shin/SB/Randa when I get home

[CT075]

oh god why is this active

i am travelling until tomorrow night, I will see if i can't sneak in a post or two tonight and then again tomorrow but i can't really be tryharding until then

[BBM]

Randa was just as spammy in Reclass as scum; he outposted the rest of the game by a good margin.

@Rapier- the reason that Randa is scum and not town having trouble generating reads is that Randa is not making any effort to generate reads. He's just complaining about not having any reads and talking about having a bunch of votes on him and talking about how he feels something might be off about some group of people, but nowhere does he ever follow up on any of these people. Hell, he even made ISOs for everyone. If he really cared about finding scum he'd be going through the ISOs of the people he has vague gut suspicions about, instead of just offering idle commentary on stuff and doing "helpful" stuff like votals and ISOs that isn't actually contribution, despite being here like all the time.

[Randa]

i chanalled my inner manix for that game BBM

Also because everybody seems fixated around this, I have gone back and checked over Prims, SB, Refa, Poly, and rapier. Both in context and in ISO. I haven't seen anything that is inherently scummy to me. I don't feel like stating 25 times "I still don't know why but I got a gut read on these people", when all that does in create more spam.

[charlie_]

Hey mods, can we have a super mega extension (like to 1 week)? Do larges typically only start with 3 days?

who the fuck wants a week long day 1

I reread Shin and I'm still okay with his lynch. Really there's very little in his ISO that isn't related the Weapons and Rapier and it doesn't really feel like he's tried to pursue anyone else either? He though that Poly and I had weird reactions in RVS and then doesn't try to look at us later on at all (and while Poly's activity hasn't been great I've posted enough for him to probably have gotten some kind of opinion on me?) His Randa vote comes at a kind of came out of nowhere considering he hadn't mentioned him before and it kind of feels like it only happened because nobody wanted to get Rapier or Weapons, especially considering the former was suddenly improving for reasons Shin never cites, and attacks him again later on.

Randa's play feels really forced, his Weapons vote only came after being pressured on having no reads and after the unvote he doesn't really go anywhere. Here he implies he was voting Weapons to get him to answer his question but if you actually look at his Weapons vote post he says Weapons is actually suspicious rather than trying to get him to answer questions. I also feel like this post is trying to draw attention to how he doesn't care about votes on him to make him look townie because he clearly knows that they're there and the lack of addressing them could just as easily be scum not knowing how to defend themselves from votes that are totally right. There's also his Refa response post which is basically commentary and takes waffly stances on Paper and Prims which I don't like. The only thing that makes me hesitate on it is him questioning Rapier's townread on him but I don't think that outweighs everything else he's done.

It kinda feels like Paperblade is ignoring the thread but looking back his content is mostly okay for now. I want to see where he goes from here though. I also still feel eh on Refa for reasons I'm too lazy to repeat at this point and would look closely at him if Randa flips scum due to his Prims bussing Randa comment earlier on.

I'm still torn which of Shin/Randa is scummier though, honestly. I have a couple of hours to figure it out though and might even be awake when phase ends!!!! (Don't count on it.)

[Shin]

who the fuck wants a week long day 1

I reread Shin and I'm still okay with his lynch. Really there's very little in his ISO that isn't related the Weapons and Rapier and it doesn't really feel like he's tried to pursue anyone else either? He though that Poly and I had weird reactions in RVS and then doesn't try to look at us later on at all (and while Poly's activity hasn't been great I've posted enough for him to probably have gotten some kind of opinion on me?) His Randa vote comes at a kind of came out of nowhere considering he hadn't mentioned him before and it kind of feels like it only happened because nobody wanted to get Rapier or Weapons, especially considering the former was suddenly improving for reasons Shin never cites, and attacks him again later on.

I was writing a response to this but something came up, I'll make sure I get to it tomorrow. However, Poly hasn't really existed, but his uncertainty of his Weapons vote after jumping on a wagon looks bad, it's like he wasn't going to fully commit - which leads one to question why he voted at all. Rapier's interactions with Weapons were what made me feel better about him, there was some logical progress to what he said which was a stark contrast to earlier. I haven't really noticed you beyond your questions to me, but I'm seeing where the criticisms come from.

Also, don't vote Shin, he's a terrible candidate for this day's president!

[Parrhesia]

People keep asking me when Day 1 ends.

Days last for Three (3) days, or 72 hours.

Everything was roughly sent out at August 3rd, 7pm AEST.

Take the second post of the game, subtract eight minutes, and then add three days. That's cutoff.

Alternatively, it's in eleven and a half hours.

[Randa]

Can we get an extension? Like 12/24 hours.

[Shin]

Yeah, an extension would be helpful considering I haven't even seen half the game!

[Refa]

I'm back, baby. Shin should claim since he's the leading wagon.

Also going to read through apparently not that much. Well...OK, then. I'm kind of happy because I'm lazy but jeez you guys phase ends in like 12 hours.

[Rapier]

I'm against an extension because we've had enough time to reread the thread, vote and do something. I don't see a reason to prolong D1 more than necessary. If anything, whoever we lynch in 11 hours will provide us with insights for D2, which is a good thing imo.

Rapier's interactions with Weapons were what made me feel better about him, there was some logical progress to what he said which was a stark contrast to earlier.

It's strange that you posted you still found me scummy and then one hour later you made a complete flip about me and turned on to Randa. It's a bit too sudden and convenient, taking into account kirsche's post about your position, which you decided to switch right away afterwards.

Also, the post where you switched your vote to Randa still speaks about me as if you still thought I was scum. You said my reads were shallow, that my case on Weapons was bad and taunting, and that I was being uncooperative with others' questions toward me. Even so you decided Randa was a better lynch candidate for his uncommitment. Comparing what you said about us, you had more of a case against me than against Randa. Therefore, no, I still don't understand what made you put him as your priority.

"So excluding reasons why Weapons might be town, why is he town?"

There was no scum intent in any of his posts. Asking for a massclaim is not rolefishing.

---

This isn't really saying "it's illogical" we're saying Scum likes to be subtle and not so forward. We're not talking about a simple mistake we're analysing overall play.

Relying on meta to defend someone is pretty shallow imo. Prims' defense on Weapons was solely based on that, which is something I don't buy. Also, how is asking for a massclaim not rolefishing? The consequences of it is to learn all the roles in the game (excluding, of course, fakeclaims), so yes, I can see a connectivity between rolefishing and asking for a massclaim.

It's true scum like to be subtle and not so forward, but you're forgetting that not everyone plays profissionally like that. If someone makes a mistake that I consider scummy I will call them for it, no matter if scum are normally subtle.

[Strawman]

##Unvote

[Rapier]

Also, I propose a few questions for everybody so we can organize and see who's the best lynch candidate out of the three with the majority of the votes (Shin, Randa and SB). We have roughly 10 hours and I think we'll have nothing to gain wasting time on wagons with 2 votes or less, it's not like they're going anywhere at this time.

Which one of these three candidates do you favor for a lynch and why? And what do you think about the others?

My priority order is probably obvious, but I'll say it again: Shin >>> Randa >>>>> SB. I have a scumread, a null read and a townread for each of them, respectively. SB's been participating a lot and helping with the discussion, so I really wouldn't want to lynch him. While I have a null read on Randa, he's far from being defensable either, so there isn't much I can do about him - I wouldn't be opposed to a Randa lynch either, but I prefer Shin many times over but how is he going to become the president if the UK is a monarchy?.

I won't be here until the end of D1. I only have 4 hours left of activity. So by then my decision will be final.

[Strawman]

SB>Randa>Shin

Null on SB, more town than null on Randa, town read on Shin

[Refa]

I don't really see how I've been forgettable (again) although I can see how I haven't pushed my reads that hard, but part of that is just due to most of my suspicions not posting that often. I didn't feel like outing my townreads because the only one who was under any sort of pressure was Weapons, so there was no point. I'll be honest that I don't really have that much conviction though because I'm not that confident in my reads. The one I'm most comfortable with is scum!Paperblade (especially consider he seems to be ignoring the thread after I've tried to pressure him) but I don't think anyone actually wants to wagon him with me.

If you don't have any issues with Paperblade's content itself though, what do you make of his push on me for "playing intentionally badly" rather than being scummy, when he seems to actually have scumread Cam?

One thing I find really interesting though is how Refa implies scum!Prims would've jumped onto Randa to bus him at this point... except we don't know Randa's alignment. Explain?

I feel a little better about Refa now he has actual content to his name but the above confuses me greatly and I feel like some of his reads (mainly Cam, Beli and the hydra if you count it) are really pointless and feel kind of like filler content.

Forgettable was probably the wrong word to use there, I guess what I'm trying to say is you haven't been much of a presence compared to past town games; fair enough on your reads point though (although I really don't get why you wouldn't out your town reads, but I'm seeing it more as a difference in playstyles than something that actually bothers me).

Didn't Paperblade claim that was a mistake on his part? He's had more content on his scumread on you than his scumread on Cam, so I'm willing to believe that he was being honest there. Agree with your later post that he should be putting out more opinions though.

I'm scumreading Randa lol. I guess I'm taking a logical leap by basing my Prims read on that, but there's not really much else to go off of considering his content so I don't really see what the problem is there.

The hydra read was a joke lol. I can see how the Cam read can be considered filler since it wasn't conclusive, but I was sort of hoping that people who'd played with scum!Cam before could help me get a stronger read on him overall. Don't agree with my Beli read though, since I was explaining why he did similar things to someone I'm scumreading (Shin) but why I'm less bothered by him despite that.

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I guess kirsche lynch would be okay really just because he'd be more active as town.

I don't think kirsche's activity is indicative of alignment because in the last game (Reclass) he was very active and well scum. Would like him to post more though because it's hard to get a read on him as is.

[MRDRHAWK]

Based upon what I read, I TR Shin and sorta TR SB. Haven't read Randa yet, but based on the bit I've seen, it seems like he posts a lot as scum so unless I something super-standout in his ISO I'm just gonna

##Unvote

##Vote: Randa

for now

[Refa]

Sawsloth (I dunno what I should call you dude), already explained why Randa over Shin. While I feel like Randa's posts were worse overall, Shin's forced read on Randa really bothered me (since it came across as scum trying to save themselves from a lynch) and was what really tipped the scales.

I'm gonna be stupid and bring up self meta. As Refa pointed out I did the same exact thing in reclass and I was scum. I don't think somebody taking a passive approach to a wagon on them should be a reason to think they're town.

Ugh this makes me feel way worse about lynching Randa. In my personal experience, scum generally never explains why town reads on them are wrong, ESPECIALLY this close to the deadline. I don't think Randa even did this in Reclass, although tbh I didn't really reread that thoroughly so I don't know however I'm still right hopefully.

This isn't really bad, but I will point out that not really pushing reads can applied to pretty much everyone at this point, cause I don't think anybody is very confident yet.

Doesn't paper get demotivated as scum. Could that be the explanation. I don't really know cause I've never played with him for a full game.

This actually made me figure out what was weird about Prims I always remember him being spammier. I don't think that's an actual scum tell or me just thinking,of Prims in a wierd way.

Watch weapons be scum. You'll all see!

Yeah, but I expect more from SB. :>

He does, but I feel like there's a difference in his play here (while he does have an annoying lack of reads he is actually putting out original content) and his play in...uh...OK, what was the game where Paperblade got lynched D1? I can't remember its name for the life of me...British? Yeah anyways, in that game where he basically sheeped Prims and didn't really provide any original content.

Prims does that as both alignments. Also he's on vacation.

I dunno, I was onto Scum!Weapons very early in Conspiracy and there is a pretty obvious playstyle difference between the two games.

[Refa]

i am only skimming but i am strongly townreading rapier, weapons, randa and am sad there's a clutserfuck between them, strawduck mite b town too honestly though it's weirding me out cuz i remember him being very wordy when he played like a year ago. maybe somebody killed him and took his place. core? no wait core would've done that to weapons.

i dunno why my ffm vote sucks :X i think he's scum

i wouldnt mind killing randa to eliminate the distraction tbh. the reason my opinion changed was just from him posting more, he looks like he cares about town and is trying hence being spammy

I don't really like the dissonance here. Well it's less about the contradiction and more that Prims wouldn't mind getting rid of Randa, which is kind of similar to Conspiracy where he was all gung-ho about lynching lurkers.

I don't really have any issues with your FFM vote because I agree that his play has been bad, but already said why I don't think he's scum despite that you should read my 10/10 case to find out more (well, maybe only 8.9/10).

Randa was just as spammy in Reclass as scum; he outposted the rest of the game by a good margin.

@Rapier- the reason that Randa is scum and not town having trouble generating reads is that Randa is not making any effort to generate reads. He's just complaining about not having any reads and talking about having a bunch of votes on him and talking about how he feels something might be off about some group of people, but nowhere does he ever follow up on any of these people. Hell, he even made ISOs for everyone. If he really cared about finding scum he'd be going through the ISOs of the people he has vague gut suspicions about, instead of just offering idle commentary on stuff and doing "helpful" stuff like votals and ISOs that isn't actually contribution, despite being here like all the time.

Actually this is a legit point ughhhhh. Why you gotta be so hard mafia? ;_;

[Refa]

Also, I propose a few questions for everybody so we can organize and see who's the best lynch candidate out of the three with the majority of the votes (Shin, Randa and SB). We have roughly 10 hours and I think we'll have nothing to gain wasting time on wagons with 2 votes or less, it's not like they're going anywhere at this time.

Which one of these three candidates do you favor for a lynch and why? And what do you think about the others?

My priority order is probably obvious, but I'll say it again: Shin >>> Randa >>>>> SB. I have a scumread, a null read and a townread for each of them, respectively. SB's been participating a lot and helping with the discussion, so I really wouldn't want to lynch him. While I have a null read on Randa, he's far from being defensable either, so there isn't much I can do about him - I wouldn't be opposed to a Randa lynch either, but I prefer Shin many times over but how is he going to become the president if the UK is a monarchy?.

I won't be here until the end of D1. I only have 4 hours left of activity. So by then my decision will be final.

Definitely would not vote SB because I think his response to my WALL was fine and he obviously wouldn't read my wall as scum his posts since then have been fine and there's nothing particularly egregious. Still kind of hung up between Shin and Randa because I think both wagons have legitimate reasons, but am leaning more towards Shin at the moment because I can see town intent in some of Randa's actions.

[Strawman]

Sawsloth (I dunno what I should call you dude), already explained why Randa over Shin. While I feel like Randa's posts were worse overall, Shin's forced read on Randa really bothered me (since it came across as scum trying to save themselves from a lynch) and was what really tipped the scales.

Straw/Strawman is what I'm generally referred to as. I saw both reasons in your other post, but it wasn't clear to me why Shin was more vote worthy, so thanks.

Even with a town read on Randa, I see the point in the thing from Prims you quote (I questioned the same thing when I read it). Even though lynching your townread is dumb, look at the discussion from and centered around Randa, and ask if it has been helping town? Its questionable.

[Refa]

Straw/Strawman is what I'm generally referred to as. I saw both reasons in your other post, but it wasn't clear to me why Shin was more vote worthy, so thanks.

Even with a town read on Randa, I see the point in the thing from Prims you quote (I questioned the same thing when I read it). Even though lynching your townread is dumb, look at the discussion from and centered around Randa, and ask if it has been helping town? Its questionable.

I agree that Randa hasn't been pro town but I'm trying to look past that and see the scum intent in his posts rather than just lynching him based on bad play; this is something Prims should be well versed too (see- him talking about in various postgames about how he'd hard defend less-than-stellar people as town but lynched them anyways because he was scum). Like earlier he mentioned Randa appeared to him as flailing town so this change in opinion bothers me.

[Strawman]

But to make a terrible case, its Prims and it sounds like something he'd do maybe? Lynch spammy unhelpful town?

Also unless Poly isn't going to be around before phase end, he put up another poor reasoned vote imo. We still have time. No reason for such a weak vote just yet unless you won't be around.

[Refa]

I dunno, honestly I kind of suck at reading Prims. Would like him to explain his reasoning there at least.

Also agree with you about Poly's vote. Like I agree that Randa is scummy but it's not because he's posting a lot.

[MRDRHAWK]

I still have to reread Randa so :/

I'll better justify it later unless I REALLY think he's town

[Rapier]

Straw/Strawman is what I'm generally referred to as. I saw both reasons in your other post, but it wasn't clear to me why Shin was more vote worthy, so thanks.

Even with a town read on Randa, I see the point in the thing from Prims you quote (I questioned the same thing when I read it). Even though lynching your townread is dumb, look at the discussion from and centered around Randa, and ask if it has been helping town? Its questionable.

So is it defensable to lynch someone you think is town because they aren't helping? Assuming said person is town, why would they lynch someone who they think is town? Isn't that detrimental to the town?

I want a response from him regarding this.