Qprogue Mafia - Game Over

[Bluedoom]

oh lol kirsche voted

kirsche do you actually think a mafia who has come back from a 1 year hiatus would actually claim neighbour ED1 and their class name?

[MancerNecro]

Bluedoom, that is just so lazy of you.

There have been so much exchanges and talking that I believe you can form other reads too. For example, everyone's been talking about Elieson as next day's lynch as well, what do you think of that.

There's also the grasping that kirsche has said that I might have done which you could analyse too.

I don't like that you just decided there's not much discussed and then lazily said that you will not go and analyse or read through the discussion.

[Zkirsche]

I think it's possible, Marth, yes.

[MancerNecro]

Well, I admit I might be grasping a little hard but it's because I don't want to miss out any possible scum tells and I am trying to help town generate discussion too. Both ways, my grasping hard can pour out information from the players that can help us root out the scum.

[Bluedoom]

Most exchanges are actually about the scumslip and rapier stuff and class selection so there's not much for me to add ( we shouldn't really be speccing about the next day's lynch when we haven't even let the D1 lynchee to argue his stance, especially when we're only 5 pages into the game. It happened in a recent game to me, I'd know ;-;)

Oh and I read about the Elieson part again but it looks like eclipse is joking because she used a smiley sticking out its tongue?

@kirsche: Honestly that's quite the leap of suspicion you have there. ##Unvote ##Vote: kirsche

[Randa]

Randa and Neko should not vote Rapier yet. The hammering vote is 8 and I believe he is at 5 now. If you carelessly vote Rapier, it may cause a premature hammer which is something we do not want.

Also, no one should vote for Rapier until the last 24 hours of the Day phase.

I have. I intention of changing my vote until rapier claims his element so don't be too concerned about that.

Randa I've tried that. Is this solely in relation to how it says our element and not our class by our role name (a.k.a.. wind cop and not archer cop)?

It has to do with color. At least that's what I think it is. Also the reason why I want rapier to claim the element.

Basically, he goes on to select a class that he thinks provides town with an investigative ability but to him, it is more useless for town to get investigative roles through the selection.

Says my ability is not as useful as a cop's ability.

Says unless my Neighbour role has something else included he won't move his selection.

Then goes on to vote to allow me to use my ability that he has said is useless anyway even though he said he would not.

Basically, he's only been doing this that in his own opinion doesn't really help town or is useless to town.

Mancer it is infinitely more likely that, that was just a typo.

[Elieson]

Wow I don't even get it still...I think I get /part/ of it...but I don't even know if I'm seeing the grand case of cases here.

I wish you'd all vote me so you can see how NOT obvious this 'scumslip' is, just to knock sense into you all, to let you all see that not everybody catches every cryptic clue. Eclipse in particular, I notoriously ask you for clarity, and you constantly refuse to offer clarity.

And no offense but I question poly catching on because all he said was gg, and the way it read just looked like sheeping.

I'm a nonelemental. I have a provable role. Does that make me scum? I'll gladly fullclaim if it'll lead you guys to using your heads instead of...ugh, something else

##unvote

##Vote Mancer

I'm absolutely serious in that I'm both really bothered and not understanding thngs. Mancer said I knew both neighbors. I specifically said I did not want neighbors to claim. I can see rapier being scum/derptown for voting Knight, but I don't see him being scum for calling neighors a shit role

[Elieson]

If eclipse was joking, I couldnt tell

[Randa]

Since it seems like its more trouble than its worth at this point im just gonna explain what i think it is.

You have one of the worst PRs ever.

##Select: Archer. Guys, read the first post on the thread where Prims puts the Cop in green. Now you see why I am voting for the greenies. Sure, it could be a nulltell, but it's better than nothing.

##Vote: Polydeuces. Why do you want a vig free on D1? For the Town, It is way more useless to have investigative or protective roles.

Rapier talks about the OP having the cop in green. this being his validation in voting for the archer class. assuming that the green coloration for wind in the OP meant that the cop was also wind. but based off our role pm all the town roles should be in green. for example neko and i have a pair of non-elemental passive roles and our title still appears in green. so the assumption is that rapier would know that all the town roles were in green and not just wind. unless of course his element is wind, which is why i wanted to know the element. but imo its just as likely that rapier didnt even notice so im not gonna keep this a "secret" or whatever any more.

theres the scum slip to my knowledge.

[Bluedoom]

Eli if you're a non elemental why did you vote Fighter class earlier?

I mean sure voting whatever doesn't matter to you but I'm curious.

[Elieson]

@Randa; OP specifically says the wincon with green text. If that's the case, it's a stretch to assume that he didn't read the rules, when he read that archers were green

@Marth; I dunno it was more or less a random selection that I could derp around with for a while. Whatever elements that're selected have no impact on me (afaik), so at 10 minutes into the game, I didn't really care. Plus spamming ARCH ME ARCH ME or CLERIC ME just doesn't feel right

[Randa]

@Randa; OP specifically says the wincon with green text. If that's the case, it's a stretch to assume that he didn't read the rules, when he read that archers were green

@Marth; I dunno it was more or less a random selection that I could derp around with for a while. Whatever elements that're selected have no impact on me (afaik), so at 10 minutes into the game, I didn't really care. Plus spamming ARCH ME ARCH ME or CLERIC ME just doesn't feel right

- Sample Town Wincon: You are the Town Bomb Cop. You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and at least one townie remains.

Thats from the OP only the role is green not the entire wincon

[MancerNecro]

In fact we even know the neighbors so why both keeping things in secret you should have nothing to hide from town and coordinating actions is scummy when you don't know who you're coordinating with fite me

Fighter Fighter Fighter Fighter Fighter Fighter Fighter Fighter Fighter Fighter Fighter Fighter Fighter Fighter Fighter Fighter Fighter

In fact we even know the neighbors so why both keeping things in secret you should have nothing to hide from town and coordinating actions is scummy when you don't know who you're coordinating with fite me

In fact we even know the neighbors

Hi Elieson!

[MancerNecro]

I'm not saying Rapier is scum for saying Neighbours is useless. I'm saying he's scum because his votes and selections contradict what he's saying. Please try to take this out of context or ignore this, Elieson.

Even when I've quoted some of Rapier's posts where he's done so.

Saying he's derped doesn't really explain anything or save him as derps are more likely to happen when you're scum.

So, can I say I just derped for all of the scum tells you guys have on me? Lol!

[Randa]

After reading the thread a bit more closely gonna pump out me thoughts on some things.

I don't like Bluedoom's vote for Poly but I don't like Poly's vote on Bluedoom as well.

This is bad. not extremely scummy just graspy (your'e gonna hear that a lot)

Who even are half of you again?

For the sake of disagreeing with my other head I'm gonna ##Select: Archer instead because they seem like a good buffing class, and any good combat should start with buffs. ##Select: Knight because they are obviously the Dwarfiest class and better then any element like Elf-tier foppish Wind type.

Let's also change votes to ##Unvote, ##Vote: MancerNecro because gut, and your unwarranted Neighbor claim seems fishy, I wouldn't claim it at round start myself.

This man is obviously cult leader-SK. thats a thing right. no. well then

Marth's vote on you seemed like an easy way to stack votes especially given the jokey way he did it with.

Your vote seems like an OMGUS.

That and I am suspicious of Marth's class vote.

You are way overreacting to a pair of RVS votes.

You have one of the worst PRs ever.

##Select: Archer. Guys, read the first post on the thread where Prims puts the Cop in green. Now you see why I am voting for the greenies. Sure, it could be a nulltell, but it's better than nothing.

##Vote: Polydeuces. Why do you want a vig free on D1? For the Town, It is way more useless to have investigative or protective roles.

also gonna address this now. can we not vote people on class selection. its pretty useless. mancer says hes suspicious of marth for his class vote, again grassping, and rapier comments on poly's class choice. honestly they probably just voted the class that lets them use their abilities so trying to get anything from that is useless imo.

Even if the Neighbour is useless, I'd like to confirm who the other Neighbour is so we can do an easy 1v1 shoot off to find scum or get out a list of confirmed townies.

why are you in such a rush to clear people. and more importantly why are you assuming that one of the neighbours had to be scum. we said it earlier there might be one scum one town but it could be two town. trying to get us into an early 1v1 could horribly backfire and make us lose two townies early.

Personally, I think we should hammer in a class vote now. Also, Prims has stated in the rules not to assume anything in the game so it's better not to assume that certain classes are associated with certain roles.

Best thing to do now is to allow me and the other Neighbour to check each others' identities since we have something concrete on what this class does right now, even in part.

Ill come back to the bolded in another quote. especially because mancer's main case on rapier is based on contradictions.

what's the point of pushing something like that this early when we're just coming out of RVS?

and dear god I'm gonna hate your playstyle like I do Randa/Beli`

luv u 2 poly

Hi there scumslip. Mostly everyone should know what I mean (hint: check your role PM)

##Vote: Rapier

My elemental preference is NOT Holy - yes, it's provable, and no, you guys won't like what happens when I use it.

##Vote: Assassin

It's the opposite of Holy~!

you now what screw it i will sheep eclipse. ##unselect, ## select: Assassin

what you thought i meant i was sheeping her about rapier. yeah right.

I think we can. The two top voted classes will be the selected class I guess in that case.

I am of the opinion that we should not quickhammer either. We want more time, to discuss what cassette to select too.

remember how you were just advocating we hammer in the class. i do. you contradicted yourself. you went 180 in 2 hours. and you are calling other people scummy for contradicting themselves.

I think Randa & Neko should post about their thoughts in the Night phase. First, to prove their Insomniac role and second, for them to show town their scum reads before they are possibly nightkilled since they are the claimed and proven Mayor.

why would they kill me. scum loves me im always wrong with my reads so they always let me live. oh wait people keep lynching me day1. so i cant even be nk'd

Nah I mean waste half the day assuming Rapier is scum when he isn't.

Also is Elie really scummy for not getting the scumslip?

why are you so sure rapier isnt scum?

tbh, even ignoring the scumslip, Rapier has made some very contradicting posts where he says something is useless to town yet goes to vote for whatever he has just said is useless to town. Then he goes to say that it is more useful to vote for something and yet votes for whatever he said is not as useful to town.

Meaning he's openly showing that he's not doing things in favour to town. Unless he derped super hard or he is some role that wins by getting himself lynched.

Unless he derped super hard or he is some role that wins by getting himself lynched.

Unless he derped super hard

rapier derping. unheard of. also rules say no jesters so he doesnt win by getting lynched.

Yes, he is for reasons that only town will understand. It is to do with how our own role PMs are worded and displayed. That's all I am going to say on this matter until postgame.

okay this is useless. this is like if i vote eclipse and say ill tell you the reasons in post game. no thats not helpful to town and quite frankly your continued insistence on keeping the slip hidden is imo scummy. it doesnt benefit town.

I am not sure what to make of kirsche's apparent confusion over the scumslip. We could have the whole scum team figured out already (Rapier, Elieson, Poly and kirsche). He's showing that his role PM could be different from the rest of ours'.

i can tell you right now there is no way in hell that is the scum team. eli and kirsche would never be so open about being confused and essentially condemn themselves.

f would seriously go 'lol investigaive and protection roles are use

oh lol kirsche voted

kirsche do you actually think a mafia who has come back from a 1 year hiatus would actually claim neighbour ED1 and their class name?

i think kirsche was voting him based on what hes done after the claim. which you have to admit marf is great.

Bluedoom, that is just so lazy of you.

There have been so much exchanges and talking that I believe you can form other reads too. For example, everyone's been talking about Elieson as next day's lynch as well, what do you think of that.

There's also the grasping that kirsche has said that I might have done which you could analyse too.

I don't like that you just decided there's not much discussed and then lazily said that you will not go and analyse or read through the discussion.

actually most of the "discussion" has been people asking what the slip is and you refusing to answer. also no discussion about eli, so yeah marf isnt really being lazy. there just isnt a lot to discuss. unless you go a act super nit picky.

[Randa]

post while i chanelled my inner eurykins so i will adress this seperately.

I'm not saying Rapier is scum for saying Neighbours is useless. I'm saying he's scum because his votes and selections contradict what he's saying. Please try to take this out of context or ignore this, Elieson.

Even when I've quoted some of Rapier's posts where he's done so.

Saying he's derped doesn't really explain anything or save him as derps are more likely to happen when you're scum.

So, can I say I just derped for all of the scum tells you guys have on me? Lol!

derps are actually less likely to come from scum as they are more inclined to check and proof read so they dont mess up and cause damage.

[Elieson]

Going to claim half my role right now: I have an Omniphase Neighbour role that works when the town's class is Knight.

Wow ok I derped again and thought someone else claimed neighbor when they were just talking about neighbors in general. I'll bite on that, my reading skills have evidently proven themselves to be far less than adequate so far. Thanks mancer, that's exactly what I needed

##Unvote

And like I said, I think I'm getting the care moreso on Rapier regarding his vote patterns, as opposed to this 'slip'.

I still think neighbors are lame hashtaghashtagVotePrims

kirsche, on 09 Sept 2014 - 06:18 AM, said:

Nah I mean waste half the day assuming Rapier is scum when he isn't.

Also is Elie really scummy for not getting the scumslip?

why are you so sure rapier isnt scum?

Not gonna lie, I missed this on my first read of kirsche's post. RANDA IS DA MANDA

##Vote kirsche

Explain ploxkthx

[BBM]

The scumslip is that because he doesn't have a town wincon of his own in his role PM, he assumed that 'Town Bomb Cop' in the rules being in green referred to the element rather than the fact that all townies' roles are automatically green.

I can't really think of a reason for Rapier to assume that roles were coloured in as their element unless he was town with a wind element and even then that's kind of iffy. Can someone with an elemental role clarify whether the blurb about the role has any colour associating to the element in it (no need to claim a specific element).

That being said, I don't necessarily think that everyone else who didn't realize this is scum because I almost didn't myself, since Eclipse's explanation was vague (although I agree with her reasons for keeping it so). Not picking up on the explanation could just as easily be unobservant town as scum who also don't have a town wincon in their PM.

Elieson your posts were kind of confusing because what I understood from them was 'Mancer shouldn't have claimed but now that he has the other Neighbour should claim too so that we don't have to select Knight just so he can use his role'.

I don't really like Marth's kirsche vote. While I disagree with kirsche about Mancer being scummy (this is pretty much how I remember Mancer playing as all alignments), his argument about Mancer just going for easy suspicions tied to not picking up on the scumslip is correct. I don't see how there's a leap in logic there, especially for someone who hasn't played with Mancer before (AFAIK). The tone of his posts also just feels lazy to me.

##Unvote, ##Vote: Marth

More wary about Elie's Mancer vote than kirsche's because he doesn't actually say what Mancer does that's scummy. Okay, he didn't understand Elie's posts correctly. But considering Elie is making a big deal about how him not understanding the scumslip isn't scummy, what exactly is scummy about not picking up on confusing posts?

Rapier > Marth > Elie

tbh I dislike what Elie did more but I think it's unlikely for him and Rapier to buddies

[Elieson]

I don't think we should massclaim elements. We've already seen speculation linking elements to roles (eg Holy probably having Doctor, Dark probably having Vig). If we claim elements we could narrow down important PR targets for the mafia.

Considering Knight is associated with Neighbor, I dunno how much spec really can fall into play here. It's arguable that Fighter/Fire AND Assassin/Dark could both be interpreted as Vig, for instance. Elements might not be all that they seem?

[MancerNecro]

I am of the opinion that scum will tend to derp more. They have to pretend to be town that they're not and have to pretend that they're not communicating with anyone (their scum team) which is really hard and more stressful.

If you read the rules, hammering in the first class gives us 24 more hours in the day phase hence why I want to hammer a class.

I don't want to quickhammer a player since that would end the Day phase immediately.

There is no contradiction because that's between hammering a class and a player.

[BBM]

Randa I see a bunch of quotestripping with no votes or summary at the end- do you think Mancer is scum?

[NekoRex]

Gut reads are fine, especially this early on when it's harder to scumhunt based on material, but I don't like the bit after. Why was Mancer's neighbor claim scummy as opposed to suboptimal play (FYPOV, I don't see any issues with it there)? Just reads to me as you padding your case, and I'd totally vote you for it if eclipse hadn't caught on to something a lot better (or would it be worse?).

It was definitely something I wanted to tack on, yeah The last few times I've seen early Neighbor claims they were scumclaims, but that's just speculation and I wouldn't really consider it. Earlygame rolespec is kind of a bust anyway and I wouldn't vote really based on that when roles are 'not what you would expect' anyway.

I'm not sure why people are flocking to Mancer when eclipse found the supposed 'scumslip' that others disagree with, but I agree his writeup mostly based on a few misworded things (I doubt anyone would really say docs and cops are useless), and a LOT of setup spec, which are both really bad.

Really the main beef I have with Rapier is that he is super assuming that Wind has cops when the only indication is the sample PM, which is definitely not at all trustworthy information to base a pick on. (that or it is a copslip but again that's assuming a lot). Prims said not to assume anything related to roles or class choice so I don't think it really matters which class we pick until we have more information. Holy could be vigs and assassins could be docs, for all we know.

[BBM]

scum don't derp very much more than town (talking about derps in general and not this derp specifically)

Rapier derped (a derp that I think would only come from scum) because he's Rapier

[Elieson]

I am of the opinion that scum will tend to derp more. They have to pretend to be town that they're not and have to pretend that they're not communicating with anyone (their scum team) which is really hard and more stressful.

Scum can check with eachother before posting X Y Z thing, and have a team of people reading/interpreting rules and stuff. If anything, scum is more likely to slip and less likely to derp, simply because if there's something that scum doesn't understand, they'd probably ask their buddies before posting about it

[Randa]

Randa I see a bunch of quotestripping with no votes or summary at the end- do you think Mancer is scum?

im currently inclined to believe so. and yes i worded that in the most dickish way possible. and our vote is already on mancer. i might give more thoughts later but im writing a set up spec post so itll have to wait a bit.

I am of the opinion that scum will tend to derp more. They have to pretend to be town that they're not and have to pretend that they're not communicating with anyone (their scum team) which is really hard and more stressful.

If you read the rules, hammering in the first class gives us 24 more hours in the day phase hence why I want to hammer a class.

I don't want to quickhammer a player since that would end the Day phase immediately.

There is no contradiction because that's between hammering a class and a player.

okay i dumb then. I thought you were talking about hammering the class the second time.