School of Hard NOCs (take 2) - Game over!

[Prims]

Prims let's talk. Why am I mafia?

doge is a scumtell and also your "there could be a cult, but maybe not" post seemed like weird whitenoise. you're ok now though since a bunch of pages popped up while i slept until 6 PM

##Unvote

##Vote: J

basically all this guy's posts radiate passive-aggressive sleaze. he doesn't like a bunch of things or finds them weird but is just content to let them be that way. it's like he doesn't care about who's mafia...... because he himself is the mafia

Mancer: whyyyyy would scum hammer a wagon full of jokevotes and place themselves under heavy suspicion? "scum are on bbm's wagon" is weird too since you didn't claim any of the bbm votes were suspicious. this is basically cautiousness for the sake of cautiousness and it strikes me as BS

Elie: if you consider getting mancer to spaz out an accomplishment, why did you ignore him completely until you had to justify your vote?

mafia team: j, elie, mancer, some nonposter (let's say gorf or bbm. imo)

sk: prims. look out randa you're dying tonight

[Randa]

##HBC | Gorf

Herro there. Also it is a pleasure to meet everyone else here.

used herro instead of hello clearly scum.

Randa is odd. His "break-down" RVS post seemed out of place of the current discussion and also felt a bit forced.

which it was and helped us get out of RVS, which was pretty much purpose i mentioned when i talked to SB about it.

I still have no idea what's going on and I read the damn thread

all I know is I hate my role

##Vote: Randa

from what I recall he's made the least amount of sense to me

poly thinks im scum what else is new

This is a silly question to me because it has a lot of open answers to it. "Why would scum do this....?" Why does scum do anything? To survive is a blunt response. Why would scum do something dumb? To promote the image that they are too inept to be scum. Plus you could honestly flip the question around to "Why does town do X?" and my response would be the same. Overall, no one can answer a "why would scum do this...?". Plus to retort as well, I never said Randa was scum, I said he was odd.

Since you pointed this my way, here is my answer but overall I don't like the question. *shrug*

?_?

this kinda seems like dodging the question. so i can kinda see voting them based on that.

I'll be here in a few minutes, I just got home.

larsa why did you disappear

Quick question for those of us new to this group:

Sara = Ellison?

I assumed as such after reading her(?) spoiler signature thing.

i really dont know why i included this in this quote strip post.

anyways, i kinda understad SB and Refa's logic here, J has been around for a decent amount of time and really hasn't commented on a lot. i dont get scum vibes though, which means literally nothing because ive never played with them and really dont know whether or not this is normal for them, i had something else to say but i cant remember what it was. ill think of it later. anyways not sold on J being scum yet.

[Randa]

doge is a scumtell and also your "there could be a cult, but maybe not" post seemed like weird whitenoise. you're ok now though since a bunch of pages popped up while i slept until 6 PM

##Unvote

##Vote: J

basically all this guy's posts radiate passive-aggressive sleaze. he doesn't like a bunch of things or finds them weird but is just content to let them be that way. it's like he doesn't care about who's mafia...... because he himself is the mafia

Mancer: whyyyyy would scum hammer a wagon full of jokevotes and place themselves under heavy suspicion? "scum are on bbm's wagon" is weird too since you didn't claim any of the bbm votes were suspicious. this is basically cautiousness for the sake of cautiousness and it strikes me as BS

Elie: if you consider getting mancer to spaz out an accomplishment, why did you ignore him completely until you had to justify your vote?

mafia team: j, elie, mancer, some nonposter (let's say gorf or bbm. imo)

sk: prims. look out randa you're dying tonight

just because i post more than you is that why i have to die.

anyways um actually reading this post, i also really should start previewing my post so this stuff stops happening, i didnt really get a passive-aggressive vibe from J i can see the apathy though and that is likely to be scum if it continues, but again i dont know theyre meta and i think mancer is worse at the moment.

[SB.]

Mancer: you haven't played with town!Randa period, so trying to meta him isn't going to work. Of course he's not committing to an Elieson suspicion if he doesn't have one, and you would know this if you'd actually read his recent posts properly? Also the scumslip assumption is really bad and I doubt there would actually be a three man scumteam anyway if the previous game is anything to use as a reference. None of your other suspciions

[Prims]

hi sb

[Elieson]

Something that catches my eye is Elieson's supposed reaction test and the fact that he had to be prodded by SB to vote for Navelpluis. I don't see the point of the reaction test and explaining that your questions were reaction tests in thread serves absolutely no purpose to your reaction test at all.

I'm not sure how I could've avoided explaining my reasoning without drawing unnecessary attention to myself. I had two people pretty interested in me answering their questions and would've rather not feigned inactivity just to continue applying pressure et al. Are you saying you still don't see the point of my reaction test despite my explaining the logic over several posts, or do you just think it was a poor thing to do in general. I'm really not sure where you stand with your statements.

Elie: if you consider getting mancer to spaz out an accomplishment, why did you ignore him completely until you had to justify your vote?

I would've liked to get as many reactions as possible (primarily, from BBM, but others included) before justifying my vote. I didn't anticipate SB and Randa harping on me to explain every last detail behind my vote

and my ex is calling me. more at 11 i guess

[SB.]

Mancer: you haven't played with town!Randa period, so trying to meta him isn't going to work. Of course he's not committing to an Elieson suspicion if he doesn't have one, and you would know this if you'd actually read his recent posts properly? Also the scumslip assumption is really bad and I doubt there would actually be a three man scumteam anyway if the previous game is anything to use as a reference. None of your other suspcions seem to be that strong either and just seem to be kind of thrown on at the end.

fix'd

hi prims

[MancerNecro]

Rapier did you actually read the thread or just skim and throw out a post?

Your question was directed at Rapier and not me? I did read the thread this time (and not skimming it like in Encounter Mafia).

Let's answer everyone's queries one by one.

Scum Numbers has existed on SF before. There's another logical explanation of you claiming as such: You plan to give town correct information about the setup so that you can gain town credit. If a cult leader or member really flips, I would assume that everyone would treat you as 100% town and you can then coast from there. I don't see how knowing that there's 10 town players would imply a cult exists at all. It doesn't, actually. The only role that would directly imply the existence of a cult is a Cultproof role so it's weird to me that you would claim the existence of a cult when your role is Numbers.

I don't like Randa's "post breakdown" since it's pretty much unhelpful and useless to town since it does not contain any contents. It reminds me of his Guitar Mafia playstyle where he is pretty obviously unhelpful.

"it" here specifically refers to that one post not to all your posts this game.

You did mention those setups but your initial post (which I take to contain your initial thoughts about your role and the information you have) immediately assumed a cult existence. I did not deny at all that you did not consider those other setups. I meant that I felt that you would be more open to those setups not that you did not even consider those setups at all. In fact, you seem too overly sure that a cult exists in this game and that the scum team size is 3.

I was just stating my thoughts about Rapier's post. The timing of his "RVS" vote seems really convenient to me. Hence, I found it really scummy. Rapier is also normally a lot more active than this so it strikes me as odd that he has not responded ever since that post was made too. I don't see how I'm trying to set up a lynch on Rapier here at all, really.

So, me having the same reasoning and thoughts as someone else makes me scum? A lot of players would be scum like that, lol.

I also wonder about your thoughts on SB since you say that my suspicion on Rapier is as bad as SB's vote on you?

@Prims: Fine, I admit I might be a little overly paranoid about the votes stacked up on BBM. Who wouldn't though, when you see town approaching L-2 on a player they have no reads on barely 12 hours into the game.

@SB: I'm not attempting to meta him at all. I'm just saying that that particular post of his gives me Guitar!Randa vibes which pings me as scummy.

[MancerNecro]

@Elieson: Poor things to do.

@SB: There's not much else to comment about in thread apart from Prims finding J scummy? I think the amount of reads I have is adequate for this stage of the game and are probably the only reads that can be gathered from the thread right now. Also, my convictions and suspicions were not that strong in Guitar Mafia either so I don't know where you're trying to go with that line of reasoning. Do you find Randa or me scummier right now? Your vote is still on Randa but you seem inclined to believe that his Numbers role isn't either faked or belonging to scum.

[SB.]

You are literally saying "his play reminds me of this scumgame" when you vote for him. You're metaing him, there's no getting around it.

The number of reads isn't the important part, it's that most of them are just very weak things that feel like they're there to feign productivity rather than anything else, especially in the case of the Rapier vote.

My vote isn't on Randa right now, and I'm inclined to think he's town. Would probably be voting for you after J because this case on Randa is awful and the rest of your content isn't doing you any favours either.

[Randa]

sorry about two things

1. i have no idea why i said rapier

2. i wasnt very clear i meant rapier's on vote on me had as much backing as SB's vote on me.

now things i wanna talk about. 1 i did think about them, i did not post until after morning meetings, i gave consideration to all possible setups, including the ones nobody has even talked about, such as an sk, 3 scum , and a cl. i just think it is more likely to be a cult. theres no rational reason, well aside from the fact that there was the whole cult spec nonsense in Hard NOCs 1 which i think eclipse would follow through on in this. and if a cultist where to flip im pretty sure id be under more pressure for mentioning its existence back in ed1.

you were, and still are grasping with the rapier suspicion. at the time you presented it as your second most solid read, at least thats how i read it not sure about others, which then means you can switch into it if you find no support for a lynch on my spot.

and its not that you had the same ideas about naval as eli. its that you didnt acknowledge that those ideas had already been brought up by someone else.

predit 1 because ninjas: mancer you are reinforcing my thought that youve just been skimming, SB is currently voting J.

predit 2 becuase seriously: so basically i spend ten minutes writing a post only to have SB say the exact same thing in less words.

[Randa]

also since some people are probably going to go read guitar mafia, since mancer compared my play to that, i would advise against it. go read tyne-wear or reclass for closer examples to how im playing this game.

[Prims]

SFMM4 was 15:4:1 and the cult leader was basically even-night. Not sure how 10:4:cult even resembles balanced. Last time eclipse hosted a game with 4 scum and a cult there were more townies than this too.

10:4:1 is ridiculously hard to balance in general so let's just agree we're going to lose this game.

also since some people are probably going to go read guitar mafia, since mancer compared my play to that, i would advise against it. go read tyne-wear or reclass for closer examples to how im playing this game.

you said this in guitar too lmao. although you're probably town here so w/e

[Randa]

SFMM4 was 15:4:1 and the cult leader was basically even-night. Not sure how 10:4:cult even resembles balanced. Last time eclipse hosted a game with 4 scum and a cult there were more townies than this too.

10:4:1 is ridiculously hard to balance in general so let's just agree we're going to lose this game.

you said this in guitar too lmao. although you're probably town here so w/e

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfjtpp90lu8

[Randa]

also since i really struggle reading prims, can people tell me if im the only one with a gut scum read on him.

[Prims]

yes :^)

[Randa]

i didnt mean from you.

[BBM]

mancer is playing like scum mancer

##Unvote, ##Vote: Mancer

Really though his posts seem to just be spreading paranoia and questioning everything under the moon. Also his Randa vote for 'assuming a 3 man scumteam' is the biggest BS and probably his attempt at trying to wagon Randa but wanting to give new and original reasoning. Too lazy to go more in-depth. My motivation was shot when I had COOL THOUGHTS about Mancer and J as I was reading and then Prims said like all of them.

I'm going to be busy from literally 8 AM tomorrow to like 3 PM on Saturday. And I'm kind of tired and in a shitty mood so I may sleep soon.

ROLESPEC THOUGHTS

probably 10/4/1 with harmless ITP imo. may even be 10/3/1/1 with harmless and harmful ITPs. may even be 10/1/1/1/1/1 with 5 SKs.

[Prims]

theres no such thing as a harmless ITP unless it's literally kaoz's "cop who has to guess everyone's alignment". survivor is just a scum traitor who can quit the team if things go south

[Randa]

what about jedi from fe6?

[Prims]

i take back what i said to bt because shitposting about roles is fun, actually

bbm why would you place mancer over j on your reads? hard to tell since you didn't actually talk about j. how are you reading him?

[MancerNecro]

I doubt that cult exists in this game and I'm all up for being lynched day 1 if town wants it. It's better than a mislynch happening on a much more useful role.

I think it's funny how cases against me are for both overpursuing a case and having no convictions for my cases at all?

After a little thought, I agree with BT that it is incredibly stupid and hard for scum to try to claim Numbers. Scum Numbers has happened before and is possible in this setup (to allow scum to learn of the existence of the cult). There's only two possible explanations for Randa's train of thought: He's scum Numbers or he's town speculating on the setup. I am leaning towards the former since I don't understand how having 10 town players in a 15 player game translates into a 10/3/2 Cultists setup at all. I agree that a 10/5 setup is horribly in favour of scum but there's still the possibility of a 10/4/1 setup. There could also be a 10/3/SK/Survivor setup which is possible but I don't think is likely the case in this game.

Just because I read the game doesn't mean that I'm going to have a super memory of the whole thread. I will definitely miss out some things or forget little details here and there. I'm going to reread J and the cases on him again since Prims and SB are both fixated on him.

I'm going to be busy for a while and I have a lunch meeting right after that so I'm not sure if I can post at all before the night time. I'll try to get on to make another post whenever I can.

[Randa]

if after all of this there is no cult im gonna be very dissapointed in clipsey.

also ##Requesting votals

[eclipse]

Geez, sorry, was busy with RL and all that! Votals go up as soon as I figure out who's voting what!

[Refa]

What was that, I couldn't hear you over my ACTIVE THE LURKING.