School of Hard NOCs (take 2) - Game over!

[Refa]

In retrospect, scummiest to towniest gives a misleading impression (even though it's technically true). Perhaps most scummiest to least scummiest would work, or WOLFY AS FUCK to JUST KIND OF WOLFY. I dunno, throw me a bone here.

[Refa]

Mancer, if your role is what I think it is, then I'm requesting that you target me with it tonight. If I'm wrong, DON'T SAY IT ON THREAD. I just miss OC Mafia, is all.

[Elieson]

Hey eclipse, take notes on how to host like a real host *snicker*

Playerlist (With ISOs)

• Rapier
• Poly
• ScarletFlame
• Randa
• #HBC Larsa
• MancerNecro
• #HBC Gorf
• #HBC J
• Prims
• Refa
• BBM
• Navelpluis
• SB.
• BT.
• Elieson

Important Links:

• Day 1 Start (Day 1 Time-Remaining Clock)

[Donald Trump]

hey guys, really sorryfor the sparce amount of posting going on yesterday, i was sick as hell n on top of that i couldnt get out of work and school, so i kinda just died when i got home. imma do my morning routine n get back in the thread.

[#HBC Larsa]

@Larsa: You have not played a game against me where I was scum yet, you won't know my scum meta so please don't use that as a reasoning to vote me. Everyone's thoughts and style of playing are likely to differ from game to game depending on their real life circumstances and their moods (tired, upset, depressed) when playing. You've only played one game with me? You should not even have played with me enough to know my normal meta as well.

That matters how? I've seen you play as town, and that was the basis of that. Not scum. Also, unless your playstyle so drastically differentiates each and every game, which I have no reason to believe it does I'm comfortable with assuming what I an. Regardless, though, your play is anti-town. Having a sucky role or not truly doesn't matter, if you do, play this game as a VT and Idle if that's what it takes. Roles do not define your mafia play in said game, they can be the basis of some actions, positive/negative reinforces, but being the center of...eh, no. So if the whole shpeel with you if truly about you disliking your role...then this is sad. Wanting an awesome role is cool and all...but do you see me whining about not rolling scum? Fun fact: I LOVE TO PLAY SCUM. It's my favorite, and I'm a lot better at it. That's besides the point though, an additional point is: Eclipse spent time on this game making all roles. All roles have a vital point in the game. Whether you subjectively see that or not is one thing....another is, your role is needed for some reason. Some balancing effect, or something. Now to be blunt; I do not want your claim, at this time.

Right now I just want you to play the game and leave aside the role QQ. Cause truly I believe it to be a facade, but that's besides the point.

@Refa: Think about it though, what's town motive in making a role call like that? If you pay attention to the game...there's no need for fluff posts like that. 1) It's feigning actual content. 2) The desired effect is protown recognition. 3) There is no real threat for an RVS hammer, if it did happen...then by all means someone is either hammered ass drunk or stupid.

So essentially my problems with that post in general are that there is no conceivable reason for it to be posted, especially after Mancer claims that he won't be spamming. What is that post other than a oneliner stating a blatant fact? What's the motive behind posting it?

I personally have a huge distaste to it, but to each their own. But there is no convincing me that style of posts generally does not have ill intent, cause I've seen it nail scum quite a bit.

[SB.]

So all of my recent reads are vibes gg. I also literally feel that Prims/Mancer/BBM are the scumteam based on interactions before flips I don't even know how to explain so uhhh

I don't really have problems with J anymore after reading the his more recent stuff. I don't even know why, the tone just seems town and I'm townreading Larsa who seems to be vouching for him too so shrug.

Idk what happened to Prims but I get a nasty feel from his posts. Looking back, I'm kind of struggling to figure out why he voted J over Mancer earlier on, I dunno why you would pursue somebody who you just kind of portrayed as lazy instead of actually scummy things that Mancer has done rather than just going after J because his play has been kind of passive.

BBM is weird because he's kind of tunnelling hard on Mancer, even if I agree with his case, and his numbers rolespec just looked kind of like he was padding his posts to look more productive when really he hasn't done anything. There's pretty much no interactions with the rest of the game in his posts and it bothers me because I'd be expecting more from him.

Mancer is pretty much the same as before. Don't actually know who I want to vote atm. Will respond to Refa in my next post.

[Randa]

noooooo! my computer just ate my post.

ill put out something in like five minutes.

[SB.]

I also got one of dem kidney reads on SB (it probably doesn't help that I'm imagining him in a scum chat saying "GUYS I HOPE MANCER ACCIDENTALLY QUICKHAMMERS BBM but that's probably just me letting my imagination get the better of me). What primarily bothers me about him is how easily he's dropping his suspicions; I expect more conviction out of Town!SB. Here it's just 1. Vote someone with some fairly decent reasoning, 2. Ask a question or two in the good name of scumhunting, 3. Get a response and immediately drop the read (wait what), and 4. Rinse and repeat. Not as sure of this as my other reads because of the whole ED1 reads being weaker in general, but I've got my eye on you.

I'm town and everything but ngl I would've liked that to have happened just because it would've been hilarious.

I dropped my early reads pretty quickly because I didn't have much conviction in them, I was using it more as a tool to press people to develop my reads because I didn't really have any strong (scum) ones at that point and the responses I got out of people were good enough to make me think that they were town or at least be enough to stop voting them.

Meh.

##Unvote

##Vote: BBM

While being defeatist is horrible play the way he's talking about how bad his role is giving me second thoughts, especially since his signup posts made it sound like he wanted to roll scum there. Still scummy but I'd probably go Prims before him as well atm.

[Randa]

quick run down on everyone.

J: I kinda agree with prims that you spent more time trying to discredit his case than to actually show us why prims is scum. also just because i didnt get a sense of passive aggressiveness from your post doesn't mean there wasn't any. it just means that i didn't see it and the rest of the game didn't comment on prims thoughts.

Prims: Doesn't feel like scum prims. If he were scum i feel like he would be trying to exert more control. I can kinda see an itp prims here, but i dont think now is the time for itp hunting.

Gorf: Its Alive!

Mancer: I still don't get a town vibe from your post, there's just something inherently different from how you played in guitar and qp.

Refa: I still disagree with some of the logic, but overall I still think you're towny.

SB: May disagree with some of the points, particularly about the tone of J's post, but i might be over thinking i will have to reread when im not in class, but im really not getting super busser vibes.

Larsa: I kinda have a null here. It might just be me, but i feel like he spends more of his post discussing playstyle/philosophy of mafia which kinda seems like padding, but i dont really see scum intent in doing so. its the same thing as with eli, there are some logical reasons as to why i should suspect them, but i just dont get a scum vibe from them.

i need to go back and reread before i change my vote.

[BBM]

lol SB I had literally one line on numbers spec. The fact that I don`t have much content other than Mancer is valid but `padding posts through numbers spec` is a pretty big stretch. I also said that I`m busy until Saturday afternoon; posting in between classes right now.

also I can predict that if Mancer flips scum SB is going to go THIS IS JUST LIKE SMT MAFIA BBM HARDBUSSING HIS BUDDY ON D1

I actually don`t agree with people getting weird vibes from Prims; I feel like his posts have been town.

J takes a lot of words to say `I have no opinions as of yet` in his first post and then his second is just `no you`re not backing up your vote on me` followed by voting Prims even though Prims did in fact back it up.

Refa- it`s difficult to explain but like... Mancer when he`s town has a lot of suspicions but they feel like him just trying to find something. This feels like throwing around suspicions for the sake of it and blowing up overly specific to a huge extent. He does that as town too but it just feels different. I`m struggling to explain it in a way that doesn`t have `his tone and style don`t feel right` but that`s basically what it is. As far as ascribing scum intent to everything Mancer has done. That`s kind of correct and wrong at the same time. It`s not necessarily all of Mancer`s content that seem wrong so much as the general feeling of all his posts. shrug (not scumri I sware)

larsa is probably town cuz I have a difficult time seeing him go I LOVE PLAYING SCUM on a site where he`s still relatively new, as scum

My next post will almost certainly be in more than 24 hours; sorry guys ._.

[BBM]

SB why are you voting town when you`re townÉ

[SB.]

I know your rolespec was only one line, but it was the only thing you had in your posts that wasn't about Mancer so I was confused why you would throw out numberspec over another weak suspicion or w/e because you don't usually struggle earlygame like this. And my Bad Associative Reads are based on how Prims talks about you rather than the Mancer interactions so get rekt

J's posts are fluffy but they're basically the kind of posts people make in anonymafias except not as anon, so I don't really see it as telling.

I'm not I'm voting scum and I'm lyncher 8D

[BT.]

You people talk a lot. Made me want to check who ISN'T posting a lot in case they'll fall off the radar later: Scarletflame, Poly, Navelpluis and Rapier aren't playing the game yet.

Reading.

[#HBC Larsa]

Randa I legitimately have a good question for you! How do you formulate your reads? What is the basis of your town/scum reads? What's a definitive factor that makes one scum or town?

I ask these things because you claim mafia play style discussion and philosophy is padding in a post. I'm curious as to what you exactly base your reads off of. The word content is not acceptable because that's a vague generic answer that also encompasses play style and philosophy. :)

[BT.]

I'm SO CLOSE to finishing my read but I gotta go right now so quickly:

-See J as more townie than Prims in the J vs Prims thing. Will have to elaborate later; don't really agree with Prims' vote and how he reads J over Mancer.

-A little affected by Mancer's "I'm fine with being lynched" shtick but otherwise I got scum vibes from his first posts so I'm confused, especially because people are coming in with meta I don't have.

Okay I literally have to go right now, will be back later.

[Donald Trump]

"what you think its to early to start breaking down every post that's interesting and useful on the first page of posts, well screw you"

if you wanted "interesting and useful" you neglected the later BBM votes, Prims's vote switch, maybe other things.

^good post

I still have no idea what's going on and I read the damn thread

all I know is I hate my role##Vote: Randa

from what I recall he's made the least amount of sense to me

is it just typical to announce the distaste toward your role over here @_@?

Damn, why do all you guys have abbreviations for names? So unfriendly to newbies >:(

Anyways, I'm not going to go into RVSing at this moment as I have no clue how all of you usually play, so I can't really comment on things that are 'off'. Once we get deeper into the game and I get a bit more of a feel of how you all play I can hopefully start contributing a bit more to the game except for throwing around names I don't know.

how much mafia experience do you have overall? do you really think it's not worthwhile to analyze what's being said regardless of the meta of the site?

Poly are you town?

Gorf are you town?

BBM is still scum Refa prob is too.

BT I hosted a game with an itp mayor once.

Also @prims eclipse checked p3 mafia.

Randas claim seems legit enough. His contribution is effort and its probably more town than not because there's no reason for him to drop numbers if he's bullshitting unless he feels like taking a heaping risk.##FoS Navelbutton

Why you actively refusing to contribute?

this is an AWFUL introduction to legitimate content (aside from the end of the 2nd post). id understand this coming from a vet who has a more quiet approach, but then the questions from the first quote make zero sense. if he was a noob id expect him to be more willing to contribute. i expect the content from sara to be more substantial, if not im probably gonna pin a vote here.

sb vs sara at the end of this page is legit, and @ the following page i guess my question is... whats the scummy reaction you were expecting to get? i can feel the calling bbm scum reaction bait but the asking me and poly if were town questions just looks like fake contribution in context, especially since your content ended there.

mancer's 121 is fucking awful and randa's 124 pretty much covers all of the bases so that saves me some time :)

also @j wagoners it may be cuz i know his meta but this wagon's pretty reachy. correct me if im wrong but the wagon can be pretty much summed up by people thinking hes avoiding topics and being wishy washy? first off i straight up dont see the latter. second off the absence of evidence isnt evidence, and when were a day into D1 hammering down on somebody because they didnt post about something that was relevant is pretty lame. sometimes people are busy; i went into lurk mode yedterday cuz i was sick and had school and work. sometimes people just feel some things arent worth commenting on. but the conclusions that are being jumped to are kinda weird. theres probz scum chillin on this wagon. my gut says refa is most likely but his approach feels eerily similar to refa vs larsa in guitar mafia, so idk.

@prims why the weak substantiation on the j scum read in your 126?

All of your game-relevant content up until I voted you had you been stating people were "weird" or "off". When town thinks something is "weird" or "off" they ask questions to find out why that person is "weird" or "off" instead of sitting back and saying they find it weird. Passive play on your part shows a lack of intent to find scum. Being a veteran mafia player makes this all the more suspicious (in before "playstyle differences" but even people with a laid back approach want to find scum as town, it's how they win the game). The passive-aggressive vibe was from you saying you didn't like Refa questioning you when he presses you but like with Randa you don't like... do anything, just take it poorly.I actually prefer this to Mancer lynch, response to me looks more like an attempt to discredit me because my case was not overly specific. That doesn't mean the reasoning wasn't there. Using the fact that One Person didn't see where I'm coming from is hilarious too when BBM outright stated he agreed with me but J ignores him entirely.

i do like this post tho and can empathize with it. thinkin of just earmarking y'all as tvt for the Day and switching over to mancer

AND NOW IM DRAINED!

im feelin mancer toDay, maybe sara or maaaaaaaybe refa, but that last ones a stretch. i think j was far too easy of a target when he was being pushed and my j meta is telling me j town like larsa. unless i forgot someone, pretty much anybody else can live unless yall are down for an inactive lynch tomorrow.

[Donald Trump]

also

who dafuq is rapier in this game i havent seen one post from him

[Donald Trump]

to be more specific

1. Rapier

2. Poly

3. ScarletFlame

i have near zero opinion on these guys n they really need to post more. also move naval in between sara and refa in my can die list and were good to go

[Randa]

Randa I legitimately have a good question for you! How do you formulate your reads? What is the basis of your town/scum reads? What's a definitive factor that makes one scum or town?

I ask these things because you claim mafia play style discussion and philosophy is padding in a post. I'm curious as to what you exactly base your reads off of. The word content is not acceptable because that's a vague generic answer that also encompasses play style and philosophy. :)

Sorry I couldn't answer this earlier, I just got out of practice and coach was really pissy so was not risking a phone post.

Anyways the basis of my scum reads is experience with a player. I usually see if I get any particular vibes from a player and from there I will analysis probability of the move coming from scum and the probability of it coming from town with the obvious inclusion of meta in those probabilities. Then I think risk-reward with put in context of a players risk taking tendencies. At least that's what I think of when I make an argument or start doing more in depth hunting near phase end. Right now I'm sorta just going with the vibes I feel from people.

But I don't really think discussing the philosophy of mafia is scum hunting.

[#HBC Larsa]

So you base everything on what sounds like...meta?

Oookay, answered my question. There's a reason you don't think "mafia philosophy" is scumhunting... it's because you don't use traditional tells.

[#HBC Larsa]

Not that there's anything wrong with not using them, to each their own.

[BT.]

Answering J from a few posts ago: Yeah you weren't voting, but I remembered that we both thought Randa's post was off so I wondered what your thoughts were on a post (Poly's) I thought was even more awkward. (and still do)

Actually I'm willing to bet there's a pretty high scum % in the lurkers because I think most of the people talking at the moment are town.

At this point I'm not suspicious of J anymore, I got good vibes from his introductory post (feat. Celes) and didn't find anything malicious about the Prims case. Speaking of which, I think the "passive-aggressive / apathy" thing was a stretch too. I found myself kind of wondering why Prims thought BBM would vote J over Mancer when Mancer is more irky over more posts. And then it hit me that it's the same problem, that Prims is reading the game wrong and putting too much weight on J's few opening posts, and I think he would have a more balanced palate as town.

In fact ever since SB pointed it out I've been looking at Prims' comment on Mancer (which I thought was a good comment) and wondering why Prims isn't looking at Mancer more. BS is a cool word, not following up on what you think is BS is less cool. Does all this mean Prims is scum with Mancer? Nah, but I think I wouldn't be having this trouble with Prims' scumhunting in the first place if he was just town. Prims: Convince me that J's push is actually icky - afaict all he's doing is pointing out that there wasn't [enough] evidence around for you to have made your original case, and he wants you to point to the evidence he thinks doesn't exist, to prove his point.

Oh, right, I also liked J's take on Mancer because I agree on the peculiarity of the Randa case - making that sort of "my basis is that he's lying scum with an evil plan (to gain towncred via numbers)" case as scum is always awkward. But like I said I didn't really like his posts either... it's a mess. I'll cover Mancer in another post.

[Refa]

PLOT TWIST THE LURKERS ARE THE SCUMTEAM AND THEY'RE GOING TO SEND NO KILLS EACH NIGHT LEADING TO A TOWN SWEEP

(I'm here, but I'm not actually here thanks distractions)

[BT.]

##Unvote

##Vote Prims

While I hash out a proper Mancer read.

There are no votals in this game, take 1?

Mancer (3): Randa, BBM, Larsa

Randa (3): Rapier, Poly, Mancer

Prims (2): J, BT

J (2): Refa, Prims

BBM (2): SB

Navelplius (1): Elieson

BT (1): Gorf

Not voting: Navelplius

Voting anyone, Gorf?

[Rapier]

You people talk a lot. Made me want to check who ISN'T posting a lot in case they'll fall off the radar later: Scarletflame, Poly, Navelpluis and Rapier aren't playing the game yet.

Reading.

glad someone remembers me

Hey I'm alive but extremely demotivated to read 8 pages, so hang in there. I'll try to post something later.