School of Hard NOCs (take 2) - Game over!

[MancerNecro]

Just note to go after Randa after I flip please.

[eclipse]

Clipsey votals, take 1!

BT. (1): #HBC Gorf

#HBC Gorf (1): #HBC J

#HBC J (4): SB, Refa, Prims

Mancer (2): Randa, BBM

Navelplius (1): Elieson

Poly (1): BT.

Randa (3): Rapier, Poly, Mancer

Not voting: #HBC Larsa, Navelplius

You have a little over 52 hours until Day 1 ends. If I screwed up votals, lemme know so I can ban you fix them!

[MancerNecro]

@BBM: Really? If I was scum, I would probably only go after the really easy cases and not try to draw attention to myself by throwing suspicion on like the most townie seeming player in the thread at the moment.

Gosh, I'm starting to spam again... I need to head off now and I'll answer anything else when I am next free.

[BBM]

yeah I guess I should have been a little more clear about J

I basically agree with what you said about him but I considered what Mancer did to be as suspicious as what he did, and as Mancer was here and posting I chose to go for that vote.

Mancer's response is a scum response IMO. YOU GUYS CAN TOTALLY LYNCH ME sounds like a fabricated appeal to WIFOM (can't ever really remember Mancer lying down like that). And while he's correct that 10 town -> 10/3/2 with cultists is quite a leap, it's just as much of a leap for scum numbers to make as town numbers to make. Why would scum be more inclined to say that than town? And then his response to me right now doesn't make much sense because only like SB and Prims have indicated a townread on Randa AFAICR and if Randa is the towniest-seeming person in the thread, why does Mancer think that him flipping town is going to convince everybody to 180 their reads on Randa? Also nobody had really expressed a townread on Randa when you initially voted there and he'd in fact been a wagon so yeah.

going to slep

[SB.]

##Unvote

##Vote: Mancer

This numbers spec really needs to stop. Why is Randa as part of a 3 man scumteam more likely to assume there's 2 cultists over two other ITPs? And the line about "lynch me, but lynch randa after" looks horribly false too considering how early into the phase we are.

[Randa]

I'm gonna be gone for a while. My school' sodding a server upgrade so I won't have internet access for like 12 hours. So, peace!

[_J_]

I actually never voted for Randa so whoever said that is incorrect. I have not voted since RVS, plus whoever is sticking me with the Randa case is trying to shove blame onto me and I plan to look at that closely because it is making me scratch my head with the sudden dislike towards me out of nowhere but it seems people are very sheepy here so far. I am trying to learn the environment of the site and focus on how to read people here but I am a connection player through and through, I do better with flips and D1 is my weakest day, however I get stronger as a player as the day phases pass by.

Someone also asked me for a scum-read and the simple answer is that I do not have one at the current time. I am not going to force a read because I am still watching and no one has really thrown any red flags up and I still think it is too early to clearly call someone scum for me since the day-phase has been up for about a day or so and I am used to longer day phases to discuss. The fact that we only have 50ish hours to discuss is nice but at the same time meh for me.

However, I should be fair and give a bit more about myself as a player rather than expect to be given things about others without a fair introduction. I am a veteran mafia player who has been playing forum style for about 5 years now. (which is shocking to me as I am realizing this as I write this) I'm not afraid to take a stand and I am also not afraid to be blunt with my opinion if I disagree with something. My tone comes across as different from player to player but what I mean to say clearly is that take everything as if I am speaking with a smile because I truly play this game for only fun purposes and mean nothing personally or mean. I would say that I type up larger posts rather than short posts so I do take longer to respond sometimes.

I would also like to say that if it says I am viewing, I probably left the tab open on my laptop as I went to go do other things haha. I am very forgetful in that regard so my apologies if it shows me viewing and I truly am just gone.

Anyways, to continue back at the game at hand, I am going to be re-reading the situation that seems to be forming around me and look at how my wagon started and try to deconstruct people's reasoning and see if anyone looks fishy hopping onto me just because it seems to be the popular push at the moment even though it has no real solid backing. So gimme a couple of minutes and I will be back with a better opinion on things, but I thought this post was needed first before I get to research.

P.S. I love reaction .gifs from Danganronpa and PW so I use those to help my posts along. I have done this for years and just is something that is second hand to me.

[_J_]

Oh, if people are around and would like to talk to me about things and bounce opinions off, I would be down for that as well since that will help me get more into the game.

[eclipse]

As long as you're not the next Eurykins, #HBC J, you're fine~!

ISOs will go up when I can be arsed to open up a different browser.

[_J_]

I like votes on J because he voted Randa with me but unlike me he hasn't done anything else despite posting again.

Ah, so you are the one who was incorrect in your assumptions. I am assuming that is what you did because the evidence is clear that I did not vote Randa. Minus points for your research skills.

Actually I'd like J to tell me what he thinks about Poly's post because I thought that was more scum-awkward-plausible than Randa's break-down and his reason for voting Randa was having an awkward post. J kinda ignored Poly and I clearly unvoted Randa to highlight Poly's post?

Poly's posts have been fine thus far. You want me to talk about it, but what exactly? You say that you want me to discuss about Poly's post on Randa but I find nothing wrong about it, since I never called Randa scum nor voted him. With the bolded, you are laying down tracks with evidence that is non-existent. Therefore, your theory against me really holds no weight and at the current time I would like a response from you now that you have been shown that I did not vote Randa nor never called him scum.

I am going to continue on, but if this is the train of thought that is being followed by my voters, than I gotta say I will be disappointed at how uninteresting this wagon is.

[_J_]

##Unvote

##Vote: J

basically all this guy's posts radiate passive-aggressive sleaze. he doesn't like a bunch of things or finds them weird but is just content to let them be that way. it's like he doesn't care about who's mafia...... because he himself is the mafia

With regards to the bolded, may you please demonstrate and show from my earlier posts where I "radiate" this passive agressive attitude that is "sleaze" to you? I am very curious where I may have come across as this so far in the game considering the main problem people have against me is that I have not been truly here. I don't like a BUNCH of things and find A LOT of things weird? Can you please present such items for myself and others to see using my posts that would make you think this? Your reasoning for me not caring because I am mafia I am taking with a grain of salt because it looks more like a joke, but still makes me ponder as to why you are trying to use everything you possibly can scrounge as a reason to join my wagon and also paint me in an overtly negative light.

My thought process about it: Faking it to make it.

I dislike you the most as my wagon. Mainly because until you present your reasoning, I am assuming that you are just looking for ways to paint other players in a worse light than yourself. Unlike the person who may have just mistaken me for voting Randa, you seem inclined to throw things around that seem baseless and just conjecture that makes it seem like you are paying attention and also just stretching things to make your case seem stronger than it actually is. The reason I say this with more confidence is using this quote:

just because i post more than you is that why i have to die.

anyways um actually reading this post, i also really should start previewing my post so this stuff stops happening, i didnt really get a passive-aggressive vibe from J i can see the apathy though and that is likely to be scum if it continues, but again i dont know theyre meta and i think mancer is worse at the moment.

If you would have left it at just my apparent apathy which is a fair point considering I could honestly come across as that earlier, but the fact you throw in passive aggressive and no one else at the time has come to back up your statement and actually have commented saying that they do not see that vibe.

I am going to continue reading for now, but Prims, you are on my radar.

[_J_]

Well that was a quicker read than I thought. Sorry for the spam posting but it seems no one is keen on posting at the moment. For now, I guess the person I am most comfortable on having my vote on would be:

##Unvote: #HBC Gorf

##Vote: Prims

I have stated my reasoning in a prior post, but to re-iterate a tad, I do not care for his reasoning for his bandwagon vote on me because it seems stretched and faked. Phoning in reasoning would be the way to put it clearly. That to me leans to me disliking his slot more and believing him to be more scummy than towny.

Since Mancer seems to be a hot topic at the time, I'll throw some of my $0.02 that way. I feel that when I am reading Mancer's posts I am glossing over them and having to re-read them multiple times because I just do not find anything that he is throwing to be interesting nor really poignant to the discussion. I mean his case on Randa is weak, but I am getting the vibes of more misled town following a trail they feel confident on and not really scum trying to manipulate the discussion into mislynching a townie. So for now, I am opposed to a Mancer lynch simply because he is reading more as wrong town than scum. I just wish a few of his posts had like a highlight reel or bullet points so I could follow along better. I love reading long posts, but I do not like getting lost in them.

[Prims]

All of your game-relevant content up until I voted you had you been stating people were "weird" or "off". When town thinks something is "weird" or "off" they ask questions to find out why that person is "weird" or "off" instead of sitting back and saying they find it weird. Passive play on your part shows a lack of intent to find scum. Being a veteran mafia player makes this all the more suspicious (in before "playstyle differences" but even people with a laid back approach want to find scum as town, it's how they win the game). The passive-aggressive vibe was from you saying you didn't like Refa questioning you when he presses you but like with Randa you don't like... do anything, just take it poorly.

I actually prefer this to Mancer lynch, response to me looks more like an attempt to discredit me because my case was not overly specific. That doesn't mean the reasoning wasn't there. Using the fact that One Person didn't see where I'm coming from is hilarious too when BBM outright stated he agreed with me but J ignores him entirely.

[Prims]

fwiw I agree Mancer is needlessly defeatist but I'm not sure if it's because Scum Mancer or Mancer Mancer, I was gonna do meta research but I was supposed to be drawing and not posting in mafia until #TheCallout so.

[_J_]

The passive-aggressive vibe was from you saying you didn't like Refa questioning you when he presses you but like with Randa you don't like... do anything, just take it poorly.

Point this out using direct quotes please. You also did not really cite your examples so I am finding fault in your response even more.

[Prims]

Since you pointed this my way, here is my answer but overall I don't like the question. *shrug*

^^^^

as for the rest: what is there to cite. the problem is all your posts up to that point. itd make more sense to prove me wrong by citing examples where you questioned Randa and Refa to get reads on them instead of just finding them odd, but you can't because you didn't ever do that

[Prims]

thinking about it I basically was using hyperbolic rhetoric in my vote which might come off like a discrepancy, but... I still think you're scum. So there's that.

idk, talk to me about this. Why do I need to point out examples of you finding people odd/off when it's right there if anybody reads your posts? The general feeling I get from your attacks on me is that you're trying to nitpick at how I phrased my vote on you, not that you're town who feels wrongly slighted.

Also worth asking: what're your thoughts on Mancer being defeatist and overly cautious, rather than just his weak case? (which imo isn't the scummy part of what he's done)

[#HBC Larsa]

Yo, i'm here now. Sorry for disappearing earlier, I had a headache. Laid down and passed out for a loooong ass time. I'll probably be up for a good while though. It's 1:32am here currently.

Anyways, I just got done reading the thread, and it's time I dropped into action.

First off, I'm with the Mancer is scum pull here. A reaction I did not expect to see from Mancer is "Yeah okay it's cool to lynch me, just go after Randa after me, k? K." It reads and looks so grimy. Especially from what I've seen of Mancer's play style thus far. (Yes I know this is meta. Bite me.) Continuing on, something else that stuck out to me was the fluff post of "Unvote B- (whichever one it was BBM or BT one) cause we don't want an accidental QH with the mayor already on him." 90% of the time posts like this are scum posts. It's like congratulation the doc on a successful protect. We all know that's either: a) Doc gratting himself, or b) Scum tryna fish. In this case it's Mancer putting false town points behind himself for putting out a blatantly obvious notion that attracts "protown" recognition attention his way. I abhor posts like that unless there is a damn good reason for them. However, I do like the fact that they are singularly telling motive posts.

I plan to re-read J vs Everyone against him in a moment. I know my J play pretty well, but from what I've seen thus far...Typical town J. He's long-winded, questionable, and the like. However, I'm gonna read that a lot deeper after this post. I have quite a few mafia games to catch up on and get myself settled into, but I dove in here first since it's got the shortest deadline, and I like SF mafia better. Don't tell anyone!

During my second read I'll also be giving more emphasis on my town reads, once I saw that Mancer post I read with him as scum in mind, and didn't give myself an objective view and was centered on making my introductory post first.

More to come shortly. Also, hi guiseee. :3

##Vote: Mancer

[#HBC Larsa]

@Mod: Idk if you have the time to do it or maintain it but I find it helpful in the OP to have an entry called "Important Posts". Basically it's a hyperlink to mod important posts in the game thread. Ie thigns such as "D1 Start" "D1 Lynch-N1 Begins" "D2 Begins" "Votals D1 #1" "Votals D1 #2" etc. Maybe not link ALL the votals, but hyperlinkink important mod posts in game thread would be ahhhmazing. :)

[#HBC Larsa]

Prims, talk to me about scum!Mancer, and after I finish this read I'll talk to you about scum!J. Dealio?

[Prims]

Your reasons against Mancer are basically the exact same as the problems I have with him, I'm just unsure how much weight I want to put on them. Also still want more out of J as I feel his push on me has been icky. I'll probably get back to you on this tomorrow but yeah I'm willing to lynch Mancer.

[eclipse]

@Mod: Idk if you have the time to do it or maintain it but I find it helpful in the OP to have an entry called "Important Posts". Basically it's a hyperlink to mod important posts in the game thread. Ie thigns such as "D1 Start" "D1 Lynch-N1 Begins" "D2 Begins" "Votals D1 #1" "Votals D1 #2" etc. Maybe not link ALL the votals, but hyperlinkink important mod posts in game thread would be ahhhmazing. :)

Hmmm. . .the only reason why I normally shy away from that is because my browser LOVES to mess up ISOs. I can mark the phase start/end times in the OP, but for votals, I normally make a link for my own ISO (and I'll number them - the phase the votal is for can be derived by the phase end time which I announce in every votal). This'll go up as soon as I stop being lazy about making ISOs.

[MancerNecro]

I'm "needlessly defeatist" because I'm resigned to this fate even through all the games I've played here. I just wanted an interesting role. I can claim of you want me to. You will understand why I am willing to be lynched after I claim.

I've not really read through J's post because *busy* but I feel a subtle OMGUS on Prims from it? Anyone feel the same thing?

I'm going to stand by my suspicion that Randa is leaning scum to me. I'll cut my game spec at this point since a lot of players apparently don't like it.

Regarding Randa not appearing to be really townie, BT found him town as well for his claim because BT does not think that scum Randa would go for the Numbers gambit.

@Larsa: You have not played a game against me where I was scum yet, you won't know my scum meta so please don't use that as a reasoning to vote me. Everyone's thoughts and style of playing are likely to differ from game to game depending on their real life circumstances and their moods (tired, upset, depressed) when playing. You've only played one game with me? You should not even have played with me enough to know my normal meta as well.

[Refa]

Sorry to keep you waiting! I needed to reread the thread to get a better read on Randa (earlier, I was dismissing him because of his claimed role but no more). Also I had to joke about rolling mafia a lot. You know, the real priorities.

J's responses give me faith that my vote is not misplaced, so that's cool. Day 1 being your weakest day doesn't really excuse having no reads, but I like that you at least admitted it. Additio-wait, throwing up red flags, huh? ALERT ALERT ALERT SCUM RHETORIC. All jokes aside, this post is 90% filler which neither makes you easier to read nor helps me understand where you're coming from. Dudes' only scumread is on Prims, and it's an overly reactionary one at that. I don't see how or why Prims is doing everything in his power to get you lynched (hey you know who is doing something like this BBM, news at 11), and I don't like how the only reason that Prims is scum is because of a bad case on you (so what about everything else he's done, no read there oh ok makes sense I guess...).

I never noticed this before, but Randa never actually claimed until Mancer called him out on his vague remark (about there possibly being a cult). As town, I'd see him claiming his role in his first post rather than being intentionally vague about it. Initial impressions of a 10 Town/3 Mafia/2 Cult setup are baffling and also have no relevance to his alignment Mancer (fun fact: scumslips are a myth). What bothers me the most about Randa is his thoughts on Elieson. He mentioned that Elieson was a townread but none of his prior content actually supports that conclusion (earlier he admitted to being OK with lynching Elieson and his pushes also implied the opposite). Randa has a large post detailing his scum read on Mancer but the only point that he actually finds scummy is Mancer's suspicion on Rapier (which for the record, I do agree with); everything else is nitpicking at Mancer for making factual inaccuracies (this is a Mancer tell, not a scum tell). Don't like his waffles on J either; he can get why me and SB have issues with the guy, but still isn't sold on J being scum because shut up I don't know.

My only opinion on BBM is that I don't like his push on Mancer (he's basically ascribing scum intent to everything that Mancer's doing which is not how town goes about scumhunting). For example, you of all people should know that Mancer spread shots his reads as town all of the time; why does this come across to you as spreading paranoia instead? Like seriously, this baffles me. If you want to scumread Mancer so badly, sheep my reasoning or go home. :> Seriously though, I'd like this slot to have other strong opinions because the tunnel does not impress. This read should probably be more detailed considering BBM has more content to analyze but it is in fact not (probably because none of that content actually bothers me), deal with it scrubs.

I couldn't care less about Mancer telling people to not turbolynch BBM in RVS; I've done this several times in my earlier town games and have been (wrongfully) called out on it, and I'm confused as to why this is even a thing. Mancer brings up some valid points about Randa (disregarding the meta reads and the scumslip, both of which I disagree with), such as Randa not committing to his Elieson read and being obviously unhelpful. Would like him to explain his Rapier scumread though. If you think Rapier is parking his vote on Randa and disguising it as an RVS vote, then why are you voting Randa despite that? Screw what other people are saying, THIS inconsistency is the scummiest thing about you. I can get why he's being defeatist because earlier he complained about his role sucking, and it makes perfect sense FHPOV (I'd be pretty defeatist too if I rolled Mafia Goo-hahahaha, I just undermined my entire point fuck). Seriously though, it's a NONFACTOR to me (which is the opposite of the Refactor).

I also got one of dem kidney reads on SB (it probably doesn't help that I'm imagining him in a scum chat saying "GUYS I HOPE MANCER ACCIDENTALLY QUICKHAMMERS BBM but that's probably just me letting my imagination get the better of me). What primarily bothers me about him is how easily he's dropping his suspicions; I expect more conviction out of Town!SB. Here it's just 1. Vote someone with some fairly decent reasoning, 2. Ask a question or two in the good name of scumhunting, 3. Get a response and immediately drop the read (wait what), and 4. Rinse and repeat. Not as sure of this as my other reads because of the whole ED1 reads being weaker in general, but I've got my eye on you.

I actually have a fuckton of scumreads which is a first for me so I made a lynch priority (although it should be obvious from my post but whatever...).

[Refa]

PS The lynch priority is a lie. If you can't tell the priority of my reads (disregarding the fact that it's ordered from scummiest to towniest), then I've failed in my noble duty and should be held accountable for it. Also man, that was the funnest mafia post that I've ever had the pleasure of writing in a good while. This is going to be a good game, you guys.