School of Hard NOCs (take 2) - Game over!

[Prims]

I am still content with Prims being lynched since his reasoning on me was reachy and seems forced.

note how J doesn't point out specific examples and instead just describes my content with some buzzwords and calls it a day, could it be that not pointing out specific examples is something that everybody does? Like. How the actual fuck do you get on my case for this then turn around and do the same thing.

re: BT: why is it a problem for me to be giving J's early posts weight? I thought they were scummy. I thought his response to being called out for them (at a time ALL posts were early) was scummy too. I think his last post is bad and for somebody going on about me not giving examples his post is surprisingly empty of them. Even if you think what prompted my vote was too early to matter at this point it's not the only reason I find him scummy.

J ignoring BBM is scummy because it's a double standard - he thinks somebody agreeing with him prompts up his case, but when somebody agrees with me he ignores them entirely despite arguing my case is falsified. If it's falsified why would BBM agree with it? Is BBM scum too? I dunno, J didn't care, because his vote is reactionary and bad.

not even going to respond to "I don't like Prims trying to manipulate me into not townreading his scumread". Also bringing up the train of consciousness thing is like... what? How is not using "train of consciousness" the way you want me to relevant, at all.

[Rapier]

I'm against hammering Mancer because I still want to wait until he claims. Why are you so hasty to lynch him already, Prims? Let this be his last chance.

[Prims]

Here he's just kind of following the main wagons and saying "Eli should be vigged" because I don't even know. Why is Eli scum over the other lurkers? And why is BBM town when his play this game is really weak, even when compared to other games where he's been busy?

Elie kept going on about his BBM vote being used to "get reactions" but there wasn't really any reaction he could've gone for and even though he cited Mancer freaking out over being at L-1 as "an example" Elie never pressed that or did anything with it. Navelpluis vote just seems like a votepark especially since he removes it before getting a response while not making a new vote, this is oddly inconsistent with his dedication to voting BBM earlier and makes it seem like he was just clinging to the BBM vote for the sake of clinging to it.

BBM feels town to me cuz he's more insightful / aggressive as opposed to just jotting town a bunch of thoughts so he has content. Note that he was null leaning town basically, not hard town. I'm bending a bit since I see where Refa is coming from on the tunneling but that's only from a meta-PoV, having a small amount of reads on D1 isn't scummy. Especially when most of the playerlist hasn't really been doing anything.

[Prims]

I'm against hammering Mancer because I still want to wait until he claims. Why are you so hasty to lynch him already, Prims? Let this be his last chance.

i am not serious about wanting to quickhammer.

lern 2 read

[Randa]

lol SB I had literally one line on numbers spec. The fact that I don`t have much content other than Mancer is valid but `padding posts through numbers spec` is a pretty big stretch. I also said that I`m busy until Saturday afternoon; posting in between classes right now. also I can predict that if Mancer flips scum SB is going to go THIS IS JUST LIKE SMT MAFIA BBM HARDBUSSING HIS BUDDY ON D1 I actually don`t agree with people getting weird vibes from Prims; I feel like his posts have been town. J takes a lot of words to say `I have no opinions as of yet` in his first post and then his second is just `no you`re not backing up your vote on me` followed by voting Prims even though Prims did in fact back it up. Refa- it`s difficult to explain but like... Mancer when he`s town has a lot of suspicions but they feel like him just trying to find something. This feels like throwing around suspicions for the sake of it and blowing up overly specific to a huge extent. He does that as town too but it just feels different. I`m struggling to explain it in a way that doesn`t have `his tone and style don`t feel right` but that`s basically what it is. As far as ascribing scum intent to everything Mancer has done. That`s kind of correct and wrong at the same time. It`s not necessarily all of Mancer`s content that seem wrong so much as the general feeling of all his posts. shrug (not scumri I sware) larsa is probably town cuz I have a difficult time seeing him go I LOVE PLAYING SCUM on a site where he`s still relatively new, as scum My next post will almost certainly be in more than 24 hours; sorry guys ._.

This post kinda makes me conflicted tbh. I don't like how BBM seems to be hand waving the cases by SB or any arguments against Larsa, least that's how I see it I do want other opinions on whether or I'm reading deeply enough. I do agree with the sentiments about Mancer and some of the sentiments about J though. I really don't know how I feel about BBM ATM. It's wierd I've been kinda wishy-washy this game.

PLOT TWIST THE LURKERS ARE THE SCUMTEAM AND THEY'RE GOING TO SEND NO KILLS EACH NIGHT LEADING TO A TOWN SWEEP (I'm here, but I'm not actually here thanks distractions)

A better plot twist would be neither me nor you being scum, but that's not the case now is it Mr. Mafia Overlord.

RE: Gorf: my problem with J isn't "not posting about something that's relevant", it's him finding something relevant, stating he did so and then doing nothing about it. I've said this 1000 times but town!J should be looking into Randa/Refa if they're odd to him but he just lets it go.This isn't lazy but actually scummy for a vet to do. Comparatively, Mancer is scumhunting. It's not just a case of "J was too busy" because he was posting about problems he had but not doing anything about them.Gorf, where should your vote be right now, since it's still on BT? Also "there's scum on this wagon" is a weird thing to say when it's two people and you go on to not have a real issue with either of us. If you think Refa seems like town!Refa from last game, what're your problems with him?RE: BT: There were definitely examples of J "not liking a bunch of things/finding them odd" that he could have found himself by going through his own posts. If this was like the middle of Day 2 I'd be more willing to see this as town frustration but there's not a very big sample size so it's just nitpicking at how I presented the case. Also disliked him bringing Randa disagreeing with me into his case for support, it's propping up his case with something ultimately irrelevant and if we're going to assume Randa not agreeing with me makes my case worse then you'd think BBM agreeing with me would make me more reasonable. But BBM just doesn't exist to him in his post, even though BBM is agreeing with a case that J seems to consider falsified.Also I can't tell why Mancer is town to you. It's not really hard for scum to post a sob story and also if he's mafia he'd probably have a fakeclaim in mind as well. imo people going on about Mancer being badtown are just WIFOMing themselves, meta research says overdramatics in response to being called out can indeed be scum!Mancer (lol pokemon adventures was a game that happened), so yeah it's scummy sorry. tbh I'm probably just going to be on him by the end of the day since there's not much interest in lynching J at this point.agree most active posters here are town, though with BBM/BT on the nuller side. SB isn't going hard enough to be scum!SB and I don't think I'd support the Randa wagon ever. I still think Elie is scummy too but none of my scumreads are actively posting.This post ended up being a dumb train of consciousness post, whoops.

I don't think I've ever Prims actually be on the defensive before. Not gonna lie its kinda concerning. The tactics for scum hunting remind me of Tyne-wear. He's seems to just be going with the flow. When mancer flips I will probably have a more definitive read on Prims.

Urgh was busy yesterday and woke up to so many pages of content. I've read through everything already hit reading so many posts at once may make my memory a little hazy and stuff.I am inclined to think that Refa is town at this point (and it's not because he defended me a little). He seems to have done a lot of thinking and analysis on the game. His playstyle has also been quite different from how he's played in Qprogue as well.I don't have an opinion on Prims at the moment. I can follow the train of thought of most of his posts although I can understand several of the players points about the fact that Prims should really have been voting me instead of voting J.Given how fast the wagon on me blew up, I am inclined to think that there really are scum on it, going for a really easy mislynch onto me. In particular, SB and BBM catches my eye. I don't like how BBM seems to be insisting that I am really "paranoid" and spreading paranoia around town? I fail to see how I am doing that. SB seems to have jumped around quite a lot. By this point, he has already went to vote for the next person that town has their attention on which makes me think that he might not be town.Regarding Randa: I agree that it would be kind of stupid for scum to make such a gambit and claim Numbers and stuff but the fact that Randa immediately insisted that the setup is 10/3/2 instead of 10/4/1 or 10/3/1/1 pings me. Imo, the latter two setups are more common setups and are more likely to exist. The former setup feels almost like a multi-faction type of setup and I get the feeling that eclipse would have told us about it if there were more than one faction in the game.Regarding suspecting Rapier but still voting Randa: Scum can vote park on their buddies as well. It's a way of distancing themselves from their buddies too. If their buddies seem to be taking too much fire, they can just go along with the lynch on their buddy. There're no content posts from Rapier yet but he has appeared to make prod dodging posts so I believe that he may be scum lurking at this point in time.Larsa: My playstyle varies quite a little depending on how much I like my role and how motivated I am to play the game so your point is moot...I haven't read J in full detail yet (I'm sorry, I know I said I would but I was busy yesterday) but I will do it soon.##Unvote: Randa, ##Vote: BBMI am confident that this is scum right now.

I do agree with you on the fact there is almost certainly scum on your wagon right now. The question is though, are you scum? Maybe an ITP? Or maybe you're telling the truth and are actually town. I'm inclined to believe you're scum based off interactions with certain members of your wagon. I will need to see a flip before I bring these up though.

Am I the only one who noticed that Gorf just randomly voted me out of nowhere. The only instance where he actually talks about me, it was only one sentence. He never talks about me at any other part of the game. In that same post where he voted me, he did not even resummarise or state any case against me. Are you scum, Gorf?

You literally did the same exact thing with BBM.

Also, Randa's completely disappeared now that our discussion has moved off of him. Evidence of lurk scum especially since Randa's activity is so spammy and active (from what I saw in Qprogue). I really believe that a Randa/BBM/Gorf scum team might exist. If there's a fourth scum, Rapier is most likely it.

*Facepalm*

Stopping an RVS hammer? I agree that it's a misguided effort (to say the least), but my point was that from my experiences, I could see it coming from town. Say SB, why are you assuming a 3 man scumteam? Wait, don't answer that, I got your back IS BECAUSE YOU'RE SCUM CAUGHT YOU REDHANDED ON THAT SCUMSLIP CHECK YOURSELF BEFORE YOU WRECK YOURSELF GO REFA. Seriously though, I don't get it. I agree that BBM tunneling on Mancer is bad (and his lack of interactions as well), but I thought that the numbers rolespec was a joke. In all honesty, you probably wouldn't have even had to respond to me after making this post. Pretty sure you wouldn't be falling back on vibes and having a hard time expressing your townreads as scum. Hey you totally didn't read my post right. The whole reason you were at the bottom despite me having a stronger case on you over Mancer was because I wasn't sure if it was you being unwilling to stick to your cases (scummy) or just having weaker reads because ED1 (not scummy). YES, thank you for detailing what bothered me about J that I just couldn't put into words. I alluded to having similar thoughts in my post, but you actually worded those thoughts A++. That being said, apparently J does that sort of thing as town so the assignment was only worth 5 town points. I assume you disagree with my scumread on you. If you're townreading me, you should like respond to my case dude. I'll even give you some incentive to do so in my next post wink wink nudge nudge sparkle sparkle say no more say no more. OK, so I understand why you're voting Mancer, but I can't get anything out of a read that I can't even comprehend. FMPOV, he's playing like he usually does (minus his latest post, which did have some serious issues), and if this is his scum play then damn coulda fooled me. Anyways, let's just say that Mancer is scum...he's still just one player, you know? In past town games where you tunneled, it was generally because you had a gajillion townreads and your tunneling was a symptom of that and PoE. Here, it just seems like you're going after Mancer and willfully ignoring the rest of the game. Hey, BBM. Hey, listen. Guess what. I FUCKING LOVE PLAYING SCUM. HOLY SHIT BEING SCUM IS LIKE BEING YOUR OWN TOWN FACTION AND EVERYONE IN IT IS A VIGILANTE MASON. WHY CAN'T I ROLL SCUM MORE I DON'T ROLL SCUM ENOUGH THESE DAYS SCUM SCUM SCUM SCUM SCUM SCUM SCUM BBM'S CUM META SCUM. The sad thing is, the next time I roll scum I'll totally have had it coming to me for that but it was so worth it. I can't be chilling like a villain, because I'm the motherfucking Hiro Protagonist. :3 Seriously though, would like that explanation of J's meta so I can at least see where your townread on him is coming from. Is it the same as Larsa's meta read (about him being very longwinded as town) or is there something more to it? Spoilers, I will be unvoting J very soon because I trust Larsa on this one but I'd still like that answer from you. Why would you want Prims to vote you instead of J? Not only does this not make sense from Prims' point of view (considering his explanation that you haven't even bothered to address), but surely it would make even less sense FYPOV. Why are BBM/SB scum for having bad cases on you but Prims isn't (pretty sure his case on you is pretty similar to theirs, I dunno it wasn't my case so it was only an 8.8/10 skim before rereading in LYLO)? What do you think about the other votes on you? I agree about SB jumping around, but like his explanation was...decent and (more importantly) his post above his explanation was townie as fuck so... I dunno, Mancer. Your explanation for your Rapier suspicion is actually really good but this post just raises so many more questions than it answers (kind of like Metal Gear Solid 2 ohohohoho). And where did the sudden confidence in BBM being scum come from after your tunnel on Randa for like the whole game? This is a legitimate point (about him asking to be lynched and then defending himself), but I'd say his post would be like 80% defense as demotivated scum. JUST MY TAKE ON IT COMMENT LIKE SUBSCRIBE DONATE TO MY PATREON. This is factually incorrect. I don't have a town meta, I just emulate my scum meta as town. :3 Prims' last response reads as so townie to me so I don't even know what to think on that front. Like when I read SB's post, I was like "wow, this is actually a really good point, I'd totally sheep it" and then I read Prims' post and KAZAAM I no longer have the will to sheep. Honestly, I suck at reading the dude, so I'll just let you suckers hardworking townies do it for me. "So proactive, very townie, much wow"- What everyone is undoubtedly thinking about me

Yeah I don't think this is scum!refa. It's too gun hoe. Also I do disagree with your scum read on me, but since I don't really like trying to repute cases made against as I feel scum hunting is a more valuable use of my time I will not be addressing your scum read. What I will be addressing though is the read on SB, which is the other part I disagreed with. I think SB is more likely to struggle producing reads as town then scum. Looking at reclass I remember him being overwhelmed with other people's opinions very easily. And looking at hard Nocs 1 he was more solid wrt his reads IMO.

obligatory Randa are you even 21 have to leave in 2 minutes, so Mancer`s case on me is lol OMGUS and basically saying `no you`re wrong so you`re scum` other than that I kind of agree with BT tbh most of the active posters seem town. Gorf is the only one that stands out to me for not really committing to either Mancer or Elie as a suspicion, especially as Elie is his only own scumread and he`s just like `yeah I`ll wait and see`. I don`t know why he`s still on an RVS vote.

obligatory not even 20 response.

Apparently the rest of my quotes got eaten so its gonna take a bit more time before my next post. Tata for now.

[Prims]

I'm bending a bit since I see where Refa is coming from on the tunneling but that's only from a meta-PoV, having a small amount of reads on D1 isn't scummy. Especially when most of the playerlist hasn't really been doing anything.

speaking of which BT's read on me sucks since I do literally have three scum reads which is more than a lot of people right now

tbh BT bugs me because I can't seriously think of a world in which having a train of consciousness post not be trainy enough and trying to push your scumread as not town are scumtells and it looks like he approached my post with "I need to prove Prims is scummy" in mind.

[Prims]

I don't think I've ever Prims actually be on the defensive before.

you should read inception mafia

actually, don't read inception mafia

[Randa]

you should read inception mafiaactually, don't read inception mafia

But that was bastard wasn't it?

[Prims]

basically I spent the entire day defending myself from people circlejerking about "Prims is too much of a jerk/I can read Prims/etc" and then got shot N1.

[SB.]

we thought you would never get lynched anyway, so

rip ponymaf

[Rapier]

lern 2 read

why argue about quickhammering only to say 'lol jk' later?

[Prims]

ON A SIDE NOTE

I still think Prims is scum; still don't like the J suspicion. Think he'd be more involved in the Mancer wagon instead of what he's doing right now - just tagging along with the wagon (where's the case?), not putting an effort into getting an accurate flip. What SB said about town proactivity. The post I quoted at the start of this post is mostly responsive and the line about reads near the end doesn't achieve much. I think he's poking at a lot of things without much of a payoff (I know this is vague).

like none of this is true, I've gone on record about scum!Mancer multiple times (1 2 3) and you of all people should know I did look up his scum meta since I brought it up while addressing you. I didn't do it at the time I made that post because I was pre-occupied, I'm pretty sure I mentioned that while responding that to J. Attacking my post as "responsive" is ridiculous when I was responding to people disagreeing with my scumread, because I want that scumread lynched. You can hardly dismiss my questions to Gorf and what I said to you about Mancer as "responsive" either.

Also I'm confused by your push against me because there's some weird inconsistency where you treat me like I'm scum Prims mislynching town Mancer but also Mancer is totally scummy. Except your case against Mancer is a lot more solid too.

[Randa]

Also apparently I don't have any other post I really felt like, or feel like, quoting so I'm just doing informal bullshit instead.

BT is the only one left who really jumps out at me. And I can kinda see scum at the slot, though I might be trying to hard to fill put my scumreads I am fairly confident that I might be right. The way he goes after mancer, though well written and intelligently done just strikes me wrong for some reason. Maybe it's the reiteration of points already discussed when nothing new has been produced by mancer. But it also seems like his post indicates more of a null read than a scum read and yet he still votes him.

The Prims thing doesn't seem to be coming from a townie perspective. He seems more like he's trying to find reasons that Prims is scum rather than find scummy things Prims has done. Does that even make sense. I swear to god that sounds better in my head.

Slight scumread ATM. I really want a flip for associative reads.

[Prims]

why argue about quickhammering only to say 'lol jk' later?

when I said "argue this out" I meant with the people voting me. Except I responded to BT anyway because I'm dumb.

[Randa]

Prims why you do dis?

[Randa]

Prims why you do dis?

Why you do dis twice?

[Randa]

Anyway I had something else I wanted to say.

@J: Town Refa is kinda like a puppy. He can be a but excitable from my experience with him.

[Prims]

god I am really abrasive this game :(

[Randa]

Eh you're still better than I was in guitar. Speaking of which I never did apologize. I'm sorry for being a dick Larsa.

[Refa]

Yeah sorry, I don't know if I'll be able to be here for phase end since apparently i'm supposed to go out for dinner and all of that. I've put like 0 effort into reading peoples' arguments against Prims (sorry guys), Randa's recent posts are townier (actually it's just him not responding to my case on him, which is annoying FMPOV but I do that all of the time as town so I can get where he's coming from at least) and I'd be A-OK with lynching Mancer (almost typoed this as Manix WTF) if he does not make any sort of response to my issues with him. Don't want to put him at L-1 though seeing as there's literally no point to doing so.

Anyway I had something else I wanted to say.
@J: Town Refa is kinda like a puppy. He can be a but excitable from my experience with him.

: <

[Randa]

I fully support a manix lynch. Let's go get the illuminati.

##Unvote

##Vote: Manix

[Refa]

##Vote: Manix

Death to the Illuminati!

[SB.]

sorry, want to sleep soon and can't really focus on stuff here atm. if there's anything people need me to respond to just quote it @ me soon but otherwise i'm probably gone and will respond to stuff d2 instead

[BBM]

oh yeah I should also apologize for being an ass

Prims brings some good points against BT actually; I should reread him.

@Randa- I don't think I really handwaved SB's case? As I said in my response, I felt the 'padding through numbers-spec' bit was silly. Other than that, I admitted I didn't have many reads other than Mancer, and that's pretty much what SB's case consisted of. As for handwaving cases against Larsa, were there even any cases against Larsa? I stated a reason for a townread because I didn't see any reason not to give the read, especially as I'd been criticized for not having many reads.

[Prims]

oh yeah I should also apologize for being an ass

#BigButtMeteor