Dot.hack//The World:R1 Mafia(Game thread)

[Terrador]

what is this supposed to mean

As in, saying "who else doubts kirsche right now" kinda implies a null assumption of thinking a massclaim to him is the good play here, doesn't it? Or was that not the intent there?

[Percivalé]

I was asking eury who else is doubting kirsche right now because right now it only looks like you.

eury implied there were other people besides you and her, and I was asking her for clarification.

[Percivalé]

jesus christ calm down with the assumptions

[Green Poet]

so many pages why

also hi via o/

as i said pregame i will probably not be able to post content today (as in 24 hours today, not day phase today) but i will have a presence soon

I haven't read anything and I won't for the next few hours, just chiming in to say fuck you guys for having 7 pages already

sheeping this

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

Personally I don't like town leaders but that's just my opinion unrelated to this game lol.

have you ever even held the powah?

I don't really see anything wrong with Terrador. I don't see anything wrong with Eury either, but time will tell.

[Eurykins]

Thoughts currently:

> Bluedoom's had poor ideas + content, and questionable posts. Don't like him.

> Rapier's also bad and should feel bad for his posts.

> Don't agree with Kirsche's leading currently (As Via herself is already "proven"?), especially since he's seemingly throwing out more information in lieu of trying to garner more support.

> I liked Randa's minor wall post.

> I don't believe that Terrador is being scummy in advocating against Kirsche, but is just being more vocal/critical with his skepticism against Kirsche's slot/posts than most of the other players in this game. (Which is why I believe he's being more faulted of "fearmongering"/rejecting the leadership thing than anyone else currently.)

@Via: I myself posted "nothx" to his comment earlier (with his mayor claim) to claim to him. I don't like handing out freebie information like that, especially this early in a game. I'm also not fond of the method in which Kirsche has attempted to garner said support (but I will admit that I've a history of being skeptical of Kirsche's overall more abrasive gameplay as well).

@SB: Well excuse me for not having super solid stances, especially when I'm re-reading into the thread of ED1 shizz? Was trying to clarify things as I went along (but ahoy, multiple ninja posts OP).

##Unvote

##Vote: Bluedoom

[Terrador]

I was asking eury who else is doubting kirsche right now because right now it only looks like you.

eury implied there were other people besides you and her, and I was asking her for clarification.

Ah, alright.

[well Randa is an obvious one, but I haven't seen any other vocal objection?]

There's also a legitimate counterpoint there, that we've seen very little support of kirsche doing this here and now from non-kirsche sources.

[Terrador]

Also, Q. for Bizz, seeing as you're unlimited emailer: not that it matters much, but can you send emails over 500 characters?

[Randa]

Wow I forgot a lot of people.

Anyways I don't have a huge problem with terrador. I can understand how some of his posts can be seen as fearmongering and simply being done to prevent town unity, but I don't think a lot of people acknowledge that Kirsche is essentially trying to strong arm town into his plan. People are just looking at his case and saying he's opposed to town unity, and not looking at the reason he's to Kirsche leading town.

Via and blitz are both null to me. Neither really strikes me as scum, though blitz's logic is disagreeable to me that's nothing new. Via just strikes me as via tbh.

Weapons is also weird to me. I expect horrible logic and gambits from weapons. Not seeing any makes a bit weary.

Eury doesn't seem to be caught up, but at the same time her posts are very surface level and don't anything insightful to me. Because of that.

##Unvpte

##Vpte: Eurykins

[Percivalé]

No, I can't. they still have to be within the 500-character limit.

[Randa]

Can people stop cutting me off.

[Randa]

Well at least the posts above didn't change my opinion on anything.

[Randa]

Via I'm sorry, please love me.

[Eurykins]

Fuck, lost part of my post. Sorry Via (apparently copy-pasta did not convert over the replies to your question(s).)

first of all what does this mean and do you think we're scum or town?

Do you think Marth is scum? Do you think Rapier is scum? and why don't you want to claim to kirsche? was that just sarcasm or were you being serious?

Wrt slapfight: All in all, the slapfight occurred in ED1, so that in itself (the timing + kinda silly reasoning of why it even happened?) makes it weaker on the spectrum of "town/scum tell" for me.

From what YOU'VE been posting/doing (in terms of emails/in-thread content) I'm okay with your slot, though you seem moreso supportive of Kirsche's idea than I'd have originally thought.

On Blitz himself: Not really getting a whole lot; there's no real content to see/read, so I'm left with a null read until he actually gives out something more to chew on.

Currently, I'm finding Marth/Rapier scummish slots, yes.

I've already stated it, but I tend to not prefer his bullish methods, and I don't find a "mayor" claim (though he's now peppered with Mason shit or whatever) warranting him trying to suddenly pool/initiate a mass-claim onto him. So in that sense, my statement of "nothx" was me being serious.

[Zkirsche]

Also: the obvious solution to Town Leader stuff is just to Mason Via, unless it gets rid of roles.

You really shouldn't suggest stuff like this in public...

And this is why I'm not voting you yet. Your Mason buddy has to do two things to make me not want to lynch you.

I don't think you're really in a position to challenge like this. You're nowhere close to clear when in a couple of days time when the masons die I will be clear. Instead of waiting for that though why don't we just cut to the chase and get organised now? Why waste time like this and just hinder the town: is it just because you dislike my tone or is there a logical one?

See what bothers me about these posts is that you voted the people who didn't agree with your plan.

I didn't vote weapons, I haven't voted Refa and I voted SB for trivial reasons unrelated to my proposition. The only one I am voting for is Terrador who is being needlessly uncooperative and trying to paint me as suspicious for trying to organise everyone. (He's also still voting me!)

So what are your thoughts on people still not wanting to claim to you? (IE. Myself, Weapons in his latest posts)

Foolish and overparanoid but not necessarily scummy. Only Terrador is scummy for it.

[Zkirsche]

Cut hang on.

[Randa]

is it just because you dislike my tone or is there a logical one?

I can't speak for terrador but for me the tone and the manner in which you've handled it make cautious.

I didn't vote weapons, I haven't voted Refa and I voted SB for trivial reasons unrelated to my proposition. The only one I am voting for is Terrador who is being needlessly uncooperative and trying to paint me as suspicious for trying to organise everyone. (He's also still voting me!)Foolish and overparanoid but not necessarily scummy. Only Terrador is scummy for it.

Valid point about weapon, but I don't think Refa was expressing discontent with plan so much as asking why you should be the one leading town. To be fair you didn't give a reason initially and Refa's concerns were valid.

[Terrador]

I don't think you're really in a position to challenge like this. You're nowhere close to clear when in a couple of days time when the masons die I will be clear. Instead of waiting for that though why don't we just cut to the chase and get organised now? Why waste time like this and just hinder the town: is it just because you dislike my tone or is there a logical one?

...except that if the mason gives confirmation and WoMC lies about that, mason can out them as a liar and, at worst, trade their information/life for a guaranteed scumkill, so that protocol is pretty damn sound. And SAYING you WILL be clear does not mean we can TRUST you to be clear. I'll be clear when I'm dead, but does that mean y'all have reason to think I'm confirmed town? Of course not! You keep on trying to bat aside wholly legitimate concerns in a power grab, which, sure, a townie MIGHT do, but... I don't trust it in the slightest.

I didn't vote weapons, I haven't voted Refa and I voted SB for trivial reasons unrelated to my proposition. The only one I am voting for is Terrador who is being needlessly uncooperative and trying to paint me as suspicious for trying to organise everyone. (He's also still voting me!)

There is a big difference between being against organization and being against a day one massclaim to an uncleared player. And I'm not the only one, evidently. What makes my behavior so different from Randa's, anyway? I just questioned you first.

Foolish and overparanoid but not necessarily scummy. Only Terrador is scummy for it.

Failing to see a difference here. Where's the scum intent? "Hey, town, not massclaiming to an uncleared player 16 hours into D1" is [sar]clearly a scumplay intended to keep town from ever organizing behind the One True Leader[/sar].

Becoming more and more down with a potential lynch on the kirsche slot. Not saying "PUSH FOR IT RITE NOW LET'S TURBO", but every post continues to try to strongarm town into an immediate massclaim, with no compelling answers to the problems with claiming to you immediately. Why are you not open to, say, some claims on Day 2, where you might have, say, an inspection or a track or a recruited mason or some combination of the above?

[spoiler=courtesy spoiler for Bizz, open if you REALLY feel the need, nothing game-related here]re: email: It's all good, IRL happens, not gonna hold it against ya.

[Zkirsche]

@kirsche: Protip: most setups have a couple of mislynches built into them! It would Persona 3-tier to expect perfect organization from Town before the first lynch. I would sooner have a little less leeway to work with than dump all of town's info into potentially untrustworthy hands.

So you're saying we should all just sit on our arses knowing that we can mislynch people? That is ridiculous. We can get ahead now, organise ourselves so that we don't put the doc on the chopping block D1, we don't have all out investigation/protection target the same guy etc etc.

What happened in FE11? Town won that game. Actually I think the only OC game with a normal mafia which we didn't have a leader for is the one I linked earlier and we lost that because people didn't claim to me =)

Oh there was unicycle but lol unicycle.

especially since he's seemingly throwing out more information in lieu of trying to garner more support.

What am I supposed to do otherwise? I'm not a sweet talker but I know what's good for the town and I'm not prepared to hide away. If I have to basically out myself as a cleared role then so be it.

Do you believe my claim? Do you think I would pretend to be mason leader as scum?

though he's now peppered with Mason shit or whatever

"now he's claimed an auto town role pfft whatever"

I can't speak for terrador but for me the tone and the manner in which you've handled it make cautious.

How should I handle it? Do tell me the non-assertive manner which I should be handling this because it evades me as everyone is always so damn paranoid.

And SAYING you WILL be clear does not mean we can TRUST you to be clear.

Now who's equivocating? I'm not just saying I'm going to be clear when I'm dead, I'm going to be clear if I'm not. I will always, in 3 days time, be clear. That is a fact. Not a maybe. A fact. "You're legitimate concerns" are not that at all, they are just needless paranoia which will hurt town in the long run.

What makes my behavior so different from Randa's, anyway?

You continue to vote me even after I have claimed a role which is supertown. Randa at least has an intelligent subconscious telling him that voting me is stupid.

"Hey, town, not massclaiming to an uncleared player 16 hours into D1" is [sar]clearly a scumplay intended to keep town from ever organizing behind the One True Leader[/sar].

Yes. Yes it is. How much OC have you played? Do you really know the intricacies? I can tell you right now that scum are always more hesitant about town organising because they know it's bad for them. In every scenario. They can play the organisers for fools, yes, but they never propose it nor will they actively support it until they have to.

Here are some questions that everyone who doubts that they should claim to me should ask themselves and answer:

1) Is an organised town better than a disorganised one?

2) What would scum's response be to someone who put themselves forward as town?

3) How many OC games have scum become town leader?

4) How many games has scum fakeclaimed mason leader before?

[Terrador]

@kirsche: I'm not saying we should sit on our asses and mislynch people, and you know it. As I have repeatedly been saying, an organized town is good, I just don't trust you to do so.

And you can claim town all day long, that doesn't mean that claim is verified or believed.

Point, the death thing is a bit of an equivocation, but I feel like the analogy absolutely stands: we do not know you are clear yet. When you are reasonably clear, maybe this would be reasonable. You can't say you will FACT be clear by Day 3. Given that you're waving your dick around as, at this point, the premiere person to be investigating--yeah, that makes sense.

Also, that argument to authority is downright painful. Every game is different, and hosts work hard to break meta. And organizing town is bad for scum in every scenario? You're legitimately telling me that information on everything in the town isn't worth the life of one member of a scumteam? You're playing WIFOM very early, and bad WIFOM, too.

[Terrador]

Shit, lost my train of thought in the third paragraph. It makes sense to think you'll be investigated, etc. by D3 if you're outing yourself like this, but saying every investigation has doubts and turning around and saying that you'll be clear by X time as downright fact? Madness. You can't bully me, and I highly doubt anyone believes what you're spitting either.

[Terrador]

Also, that list of questions is painfully biased towards painting me as scummy. It fails to posit, for example:

5. What is reasonable grounds to trust someone as town leader?

6. How would a townie who honestly doubts that this is a good play react?

7. Who, in good faith, would implicitly advocate for other town to make a play they consider poor?

[Randa]

i'm not saying you had to be passive about it. the problem is you didn't claim mason along with mayor. you wanted to support your, and to trust when there no reason to. now if you had claimed mason when you told to claim to you, i wouldn't have a problem with you. the fact is that you were giving us limited information and acting as though we had full information. also it would've changed the tone of your posts. the way it is you felt like you were trying to force town to do what you want, which i don't really agree with, if we had known that there was an actual reason to acknowledge you as town then it would've been a lot easier for people to trust you on just your word imo. now i kinda question the miller claim because of the timing of it. it was reactive and again it seems to me to have been done with the intent to get town to do what you want. i don't you handled the whole situation well and it effected the tone of your posts imo.

[Terrador]

i'm not saying you had to be passive about it. the problem is you didn't claim mason along with mayor. you wanted to support your, and to trust when there no reason to. now if you had claimed mason when you told to claim to you, i wouldn't have a problem with you. the fact is that you were giving us limited information and acting as though we had full information. also it would've changed the tone of your posts. the way it is you felt like you were trying to force town to do what you want, which i don't really agree with, if we had known that there was an actual reason to acknowledge you as town then it would've been a lot easier for people to trust you on just your word imo. now i kinda question the miller claim because of the timing of it. it was reactive and again it seems to me to have been done with the intent to get town to do what you want. i don't you handled the whole situation well and it effected the tone of your posts imo.

>miller

Mason*?

[Randa]

Yes. lol.